10 hours ago, DarkandStormy said:

 

Franklin county is more populous than Cuyahoga county.

Yes.  My point is that using the city numbers to talk about the common pleas judge seats--which are county wide and not in any way connected to a city or based on its population--doesn't make any sense.  

 

And my point about the discussions related to the number of judgeships in Cuyahoga is related to the county population numbers you reference.  Cuyahoga has a lot more CP judges on a per capita basis than Franklin and Hamilton counties.  Whether that should be somehow changed has been something that's come up in the legal community for quite a while.  

^The number of judges for any city or county should not be tied to population but the level of judicial activity and need. CLE is a bigger legal city than Columbus, and also, unfortunately, has a higher crime rate than Columbus--both which feed into the court system at all levels.

 

^ @KJP Wow, sad to see Youngstown, Canton, Flint, and Erie all fell under 100k. They were all independent small cities in their own right not that long ago. Youngstown has suffered the worst--its down to about 1/3 of its peak population. Then again, Cleveland is only 41% of its peak, though I think the city was undercounted in the last Census, impacted by covid delays and related difficulties, such as the inability to find enough enumerators and Trump policy nonsense.

Edited September 5, 20213 yr by Pugu

Niagara Falls, NY is pretty bad too. When you get about 2000 feet away from the river, it's empty. Vacant lots, parking lots and oversized roadways. Then you go to the Canadian side and you see a legit city that focuses on people. Granted, it's super-touristy. But what else should Niagara Falls be? And that's when you realize that one nation knows how to treat its cities and the other one doesn't.

10 hours ago, KJP said:

Niagara Falls, NY is pretty bad too. When you get about 2000 feet away from the river, it's empty. Vacant lots, parking lots and oversized roadways. Then you go to the Canadian side and you see a legit city that focuses on people. Granted, it's super-touristy. But what else should Niagara Falls be? And that's when you realize that one nation knows how to treat its cities and the other one doesn't.

 

The Ontario side has always benefitted from the better view of the falls.   Niagara Falls NY also has a long history of mafia leadership that have run the place into the ground.   

That map is good outline of The Rust Belt

11 hours ago, Cleburger said:

 

The Ontario side has always benefitted from the better view of the falls.   Niagara Falls NY also has a long history of mafia leadership that have run the place into the ground.   

 

New York cities in general are pretty eviscerated when it comes to highways and sprawl. Robert Moses was a big contributor to a lot of it by over-building mega-highways and oversized intersections that leveled entire neighborhoods and their business districts. It made cities like Niagara Falls so monolithic and unwelcoming that no one wanted to live there anymore.

 

What Niagara Falls used to look like:

http://wakeupniagara.weebly.com/falls-street.html#.YTVlu2kpA0E

 

Same thing was done to Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse, Utica, parts of Albany and other cities. 

Should've sent more to Ohio and less to expensive California or xenophobic Texas/Oklahoma....

 

 

39 minutes ago, KJP said:

Should've sent more to Ohio and less to expensive California or xenophobic Texas/Oklahoma....

 

 

Thanks for posting. I assume most of the OH folks are going to Cleveland/Akron. I'd be interesting to hear further breakdown of the numbers. Sacramento already has a big Afghan community, so I'm sure lots of folks are going to be with family there. Oklahoma is the big surprise on the list.

Interesting. Didn't know about Sacramento.

3 hours ago, LlamaLawyer said:

Thanks for posting. I assume most of the OH folks are going to Cleveland/Akron. I'd be interesting to hear further breakdown of the numbers. Sacramento already has a big Afghan community, so I'm sure lots of folks are going to be with family there. Oklahoma is the big surprise on the list.

Apparently not by much.

 

Quote

In Ohio, five cities –– Columbus, Cleveland, Akron, Cincinnati and Toledo –– will receive 345, 285, 150, 50 and 25 Afghan nationals, respectively.

 

https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/2021/09/16/ohio-set-admit-855-displaced-afghans/8370640002/

 

 

Cleveland and Akron will get 435 out of 855-just slightly over half. I have no idea of why Cincinnati is so relatively low.

And I think we should be getting more than 855.

Wonder how that works. Columbus has the big population numbers but Cleveland and Cincinnati are roughly the same size. Is it due to the number of staff in place in each city to assist them?

I would think once they are settled the Afghans will migrate domestically to the area that works best for their families and communities similar to how Columbus is now home to about 30,000 Bhutanese Americans. Those refugees were also resettled across the country but found themselves here because of jobs and a shared community.

18 hours ago, KJP said:

Should've sent more to Ohio and less to expensive California or xenophobic Texas/Oklahoma....

 

 

Nelsonville rejects census population loss, finds 700 more residents in recount to regain city status

Ceili Doyle - The Dispatch - Oct. 12, 2021

 

 

"Thanks to a long-forgotten state law from 1953, and a community dinner, Nelsonville has challenged the results of the 2020 U.S. Census. The census results downgraded the Athens County community from a city to a village after counting 4,612 residents — a 780 person drop from the 2010 census. Under Ohio law, having fewer than 5,000 residents demarcates the difference between a city and a village. City Auditor Taylor Sappington wasn't having it. 'We knew it was wrong,' he said. Tuesday morning, Ohio Secretary of State Frank LaRose agreed, restoring Nelsonville's city status. Sappington set out to prove the city's case by collecting census information and signatures from the town's 5,373 residents. ... Sappington initially reached out to fellow Appalachian towns, New Lexington, Waverly and Gallipolis — all communities whose census counts downgraded them from cities to villages over the past 20 years — to see how they handled the population demotion, which often results in a loss of state and federal infrastructure dollars."

Ohio had more deaths than births in 2020, a grim first in state history amid COVID-19

 

"From the Columbus Dispatch: About 143,661 Ohioans died last year while 129,313 were born, according to data from the Ohio Department of Health. So far in 2021, Ohio has logged 107,462 deaths and 100,781 births. In the 112 years since statewide record keeping began in 1909, deaths never previously surpassed births despite countless wars, economic downturns and disease."

 

--newsfeed from Crain's Cleveland. Dispatch story behind a paywall.

 

 

2 hours ago, Pugu said:

Ohio had more deaths than births in 2020, a grim first in state history amid COVID-19

 

"From the Columbus Dispatch: About 143,661 Ohioans died last year while 129,313 were born, according to data from the Ohio Department of Health. So far in 2021, Ohio has logged 107,462 deaths and 100,781 births. In the 112 years since statewide record keeping began in 1909, deaths never previously surpassed births despite countless wars, economic downturns and disease."

 

--newsfeed from Crain's Cleveland. Dispatch story behind a paywall.

 

 

 

I'm sure the Ohio GOP will incorporate this into their campaign literature.... 

36 minutes ago, Cleburger said:

 

I'm sure the Ohio GOP will incorporate this into their campaign literature.... 

 

The growing parts of the state can only sustain overall growth for so long.  Current leadership is killing the state's attractiveness for younger demographics.  That may actually be part of the ploy for Republicans, who have long given up actually trying to expand their base.  Without older white people (or cheating), they're dead in the water, so the last thing they want are things like immigrants and young people.  

39 minutes ago, jonoh81 said:

 

The growing parts of the state can only sustain overall growth for so long.  Current leadership is killing the state's attractiveness for younger demographics.  That may actually be part of the ploy for Republicans, who have long given up actually trying to expand their base.  Without older white people (or cheating), they're dead in the water, so the last thing they want are things like immigrants and young people.  

If this is true, it seems their support of Senate Bill 39 would have been counter-productive to these efforts, no?

Edited October 25, 20213 yr by TH3BUDDHA

1 hour ago, TH3BUDDHA said:

If this is true, it seems their support of Senate Bill 39 would have been counter-productive to these efforts, no?

 

I'm not sure how one connects with the other, so perhaps you'd like to elaborate a bit.

Just now, jonoh81 said:

 

I'm not sure how one connects with the other, so perhaps you'd like to elaborate a bit.

The entire point of Senate Bill 39 is to encourage transformational mixed use developments in our largest cities in an attempt to promote job and population growth.  If you wanted to prevent young people from moving into our state, why would you sponsor and pass this bill?  I highly doubt they expect these projects to appeal primarily to their retiree base.

46 minutes ago, TH3BUDDHA said:

The entire point of Senate Bill 39 is to encourage transformational mixed use developments in our largest cities in an attempt to promote job and population growth.  If you wanted to prevent young people from moving into our state, why would you sponsor and pass this bill?  I highly doubt they expect these projects to appeal primarily to their retiree base.

 

One bill that may or may not prove transformational in Ohio's cities, but will definitely be a boon for developers doesn't exactly alter the fact that the state is busy passing and attempting to pass dozens of other regressive, socially backwards, science denying and anti-democratic nonsense that is restricting rights and going directly against what younger generations view as important and attractive.  Other states are doing a lot more than the bare minimum, and Ohio isn't even doing that.  

59 minutes ago, jonoh81 said:

the state is busy passing and attempting to pass dozens of other regressive, socially backwards, science denying and anti-democratic nonsense that is restricting rights and going directly against what younger generations view as important and attractive.

State laws that have had no impact on young people migrating to other states in this country.  How many times do we have to beat that dead horse on this site?  If you can provide concrete data that there is a direct link between state level politics and interstate population migration, I'd love to look it over.  Otherwise, how does this argument ever hold up?  Nobody has ever been able to provide any.  At the state level, we are, perhaps, "redder" than we have been at any time in recent history, and Columbus is booming with new young people.  I think the idea that there is a GOP conspiracy to prevent young people coming to Ohio is a stretch, but we can agree to disagree.  I also think it's tiring that LITERALLY EVERY complex aspect of human existence has to be categorized into a simplistic spectrum of "left vs right."  Is it possible that, gasp, people can hold a mix of views and have some conservative viewpoints while ALSO wanting young people to come to our cities?  We're also ignoring that the the birthrate has been declining for many years and that this news was always inevitable as the boomers aged.  This is going to become true in many blue states, as well, as the boomer die off speeds up, considering we aren't replacing them with births anywhere in the country.  Will it be due to politics in those states, as well?  This also suggests that the recent unexpected population gain in Ohio was actually due MORE to net in-migration of people to our "backwards" state.

Edited October 25, 20213 yr by TH3BUDDHA

11 minutes ago, TH3BUDDHA said:

Laws that have had zero impact on young people moving to other states in this country.  How many times do we have to beat that dead horse on this site?  If you can provide concrete data that there is a direct link between state level politics and population growth, I'd love to look it over.  Otherwise, how does this argument ever hold up?  Nobody has ever been able to provide any.  At the state level, we are, perhaps, "redder" than we have been at any time in recent history, and Columbus is booming with new young people.  I think the idea that there is a GOP conspiracy to prevent young people coming to Ohio is a stretch, but we can agree to disagree.  I also think it's tiring that LITERALLY EVERY complex aspect of human existence has to be categorized into a simplistic spectrum of "left vs right."  Is it possible that, gasp, people can hold a mix of views and have some conservative viewpoints while ALSO wanting young people to come to our cities?  We're also ignoring that the the birthrate has been declining for many years and that this news was always inevitable as the boomers aged.  This is going to become true in many blue states, as well, as the boomer die off speeds up, considering we aren't replacing them with births anywhere in the country.  Will it be due to politics in those states, as well?  This also suggests that the recent unexpected population gain in Ohio was actually due MORE to net in-migration of people to our "backwards" state.

yes, Texas is arguably even more conservative than Ohio and, as we hear tirelessly from liberals and the media elite, going in the "wrong" direction socially, yet it's also the boomingest (not a word, I know) state in the nation (with no signs of stopping), with cities that are far more diverse than any in Ohio. So, there you have it. 

14 minutes ago, TH3BUDDHA said:

Laws that have had zero impact on young people moving to other states in this country.  How many times do we have to beat that dead horse on this site?  If you can provide concrete data that there is a direct link between state level politics and population growth, I'd love to look it over.  Otherwise, how does this argument ever hold up?  Nobody has ever been able to provide any.  At the state level, we are, perhaps, "redder" than we have been at any time in recent history, and Columbus is booming with new young people.  I think the idea that there is a GOP conspiracy to prevent young people coming to Ohio is a stretch, but we can agree to disagree.  I also think it's tiring that LITERALLY EVERY complex aspect of human existence has to be categorized into a simplistic spectrum of "left vs right."  Is it possible that, gasp, people can hold a mix of views and have some conservative viewpoints while ALSO wanting young people to come to our cities?  We're also ignoring that the the birthrate has been declining for many years and that this news was always inevitable as the boomers aged.  This is going to become true in many blue states, as well, as the boomer die off speeds up, considering we aren't replacing them with births anywhere in the country.  Will it be due to politics in those states, as well?  This also suggests that the recent unexpected population gain in Ohio was actually due MORE to net in-migration of people to our "backwards" state.

 

Yes, Columbus grew, but Cleveland didn't. And Ohio only barely grew. How much of Columbus's growth came from out of state vs. from CLE or Cincy or Akron etc.?  You want data on people who didn't move to Ohio because of its backwards policies and politicians? You know there is no database on people that did NOT make certain moves, let alone why. Move data is just that---data on people that have moved.

26 minutes ago, Pugu said:

Yes, Columbus grew, but Cleveland didn't.

That would suggest that differences between those two cities are to blame, rather than state politics, no?

49 minutes ago, Pugu said:

You want data on people who didn't move to Ohio because of its backwards policies and politicians? You know there is no database on people that did NOT make certain moves, let alone why

So, you admit that you can't prove this with data, but you guys keep using this in arguments as absolute fact?  How does that make sense?  This is an appeal to intuition fallacy.

Edited October 25, 20213 yr by TH3BUDDHA

1 hour ago, eastvillagedon said:

yes, Texas is arguably even more conservative than Ohio and, as we hear tirelessly from liberals and the media elite, going in the "wrong" direction socially, yet it's also the boomingest (not a word, I know) state in the nation (with no signs of stopping), with cities that are far more diverse than any in Ohio. So, there you have it. 

Yea, and one of them, predictably, is going to reply to you with, "But people move to blue areas in those states!" which is irrelevant because they're trying to make the claim that state level conservative politics prevent young people from moving anywhere within that state.

Edited October 25, 20213 yr by TH3BUDDHA

20 minutes ago, TH3BUDDHA said:

That would suggest that differences between those two cities are to blame, rather than state politics, no?

 

While, of course there are differences between the two cities, not everything can be attributed to these differences. If there is greater demand for labor in one city over the other and new labor won't move to Ohio (because of backwards GOP leadership and legislators), then to meet that demand, labor will move from one city to another. 

16 minutes ago, TH3BUDDHA said:

So, you admit that you can't prove this with data, but you guys keep using this in arguments as absolute fact?  How does that make sense?

 

Here is a fact:  If i were looking to move, I would never move to [another] backwards state. I have looked at and wanted to apply to various jobs over the years, but the minute I saw they were located in an undesirable place, like Dallas, I did not pursue it. I'm certain I am not the only person in the US who thinks like this.

11 minutes ago, Pugu said:

 

Here is a fact:  If i were looking to move, I would never move to [another] backwards state. I have looked at and wanted to apply to various jobs over the years, but the minute I saw they were located in an undesirable place, like Dallas, I did not pursue it. I'm certain I am not the only person in the US who thinks like this.

You understand what anecdotal means, right?  Also, did you look up "appeal to intuition"?  Your gut feeling that GOP politics is keeping people from coming to Ohio does not make it true.  Unless we can definitely quantify what you claim, it's an invalid argument.

Edited October 25, 20213 yr by TH3BUDDHA

1 hour ago, TH3BUDDHA said:

State laws that have had no impact on young people migrating to other states in this country.  How many times do we have to beat that dead horse on this site?  If you can provide concrete data that there is a direct link between state level politics and interstate population migration, I'd love to look it over.  Otherwise, how does this argument ever hold up?  Nobody has ever been able to provide any.  At the state level, we are, perhaps, "redder" than we have been at any time in recent history, and Columbus is booming with new young people.  I think the idea that there is a GOP conspiracy to prevent young people coming to Ohio is a stretch, but we can agree to disagree.  I also think it's tiring that LITERALLY EVERY complex aspect of human existence has to be categorized into a simplistic spectrum of "left vs right."  Is it possible that, gasp, people can hold a mix of views and have some conservative viewpoints while ALSO wanting young people to come to our cities?  We're also ignoring that the the birthrate has been declining for many years and that this news was always inevitable as the boomers aged.  This is going to become true in many blue states, as well, as the boomer die off speeds up, considering we aren't replacing them with births anywhere in the country.  Will it be due to politics in those states, as well?  This also suggests that the recent unexpected population gain in Ohio was actually due MORE to net in-migration of people to our "backwards" state.

 

I never argued that politics alone exclusively controlled population growth.  I am just arguing that if you want to attract the most young people- most of whom are neither conservative nor Republican- one of the things you should do is not pass really regressive social rights laws.  In states like Florida or Texas, they can somewhat get away with being conservative dumpster fires politically because they are warm, have beaches and people think they'll be on perpetual vacation living there.  Ohio has no such perception, so it has to claw for every new resident.  How does becoming the next Mississippi make the state more attractive?  Old boomers aren't moving to Ohio, either- they're moving to the aforementioned states- so who is this stuff for, exactly, anyway?

 

But even if we fully discount the social side of politics, what is Ohio's controlling party doing to actually attract people?  Are they making Ohio a leader in wages and worker benefits?  Are they investing heavily in what will be a big future in green technology? Are they marketing the state as being attractive for foreign immigration to counter falling domestic birthrates?  I'm seeing none of that.  The fact that all these vaccine bans and making sure no Ohio city can pass a plastic bag ban, among other dumb moves, seem to be the main priority doesn't really support that they're all that interested in growing the state that much.  And given that high-growth red states are slowing turning more purple- and Republicans know and see that- suggests that maybe high growth is not in their best interest to begin with.  

 

So in the end whether they really care about the state growing, their actions- regardless of intent- seem to be doing everything but tackling that issue.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 25, 20213 yr by jonoh81

4 minutes ago, Pugu said:

 

Here is a fact:  If i were looking to move, I would never move to [another] backwards state. I have looked at and wanted to apply to various jobs over the years, but the minute I saw they were located in an undesirable place, like Dallas, I did not pursue it. I'm certain I am not the only person in the US who thinks like this.

 

Agreed. I doubt there is statistical evidence of people choosing to move somewhere based on state politics, but I'm sure there is plenty of anecdotal. I'm one of them. I would love to move back to Ohio, Columbus in particular. I have job prospects and housing lined up. But every time I go back to Ohio and watch the batsh*t crazy political ads and read about what state representatives want to do, it firmly closes the book on that idea. 

2 minutes ago, Pugu said:

 

Here is a fact:  If i were looking to move, I would never move to [another] backwards state. I have looked at and wanted to apply to various jobs over the years, but the minute I saw they were located in an undesirable place, like Dallas, I did not pursue it. I'm certain I am not the only person in the US who thinks like this.

I dont think whether the state is Red/Blue is a major factor in getting people to move there. Certainly, it may be a consideration, look at the areas where people are moving.

Florida, Texas, Tennessee, North Carolina. Nevada, Arizona, Georgia, Colorado

Yes, the vast majority of them may have right leaning state legislatures but that seems to have little relevancy on why people go there. 

Take Colorado for example. People are moving there because of the scenic surroundings along with corporate opportunity. In Texas, people are going there for jobs and opportunity. Florida, people move there for the weather and opportunity. 

 

The key is the opportunity what brings people to a state and area. THe weather and scenicness is probably next. People are not leaving Cleveland or Youngstown because of the government (maybe to a limited extent they are) but they are leaving because all the mills closed up, and the opportunity is now gone. 

 

Also, let's be real, if someone were to pay you an annual salary of $2 million a year to live in Odessa Texas for a while, you are thinking pretty long and hard about going, no matter your politics.

5 minutes ago, CMHOhio said:

but I'm sure there is plenty of anecdotal

Sure, but personal anecdotes aren't valid counter arguments.

Edited October 25, 20213 yr by TH3BUDDHA

11 minutes ago, jonoh81 said:

I never argued that politics alone exclusively controlled population growth.

 

5 hours ago, jonoh81 said:

That may actually be part of the ploy for Republicans

 

5 hours ago, jonoh81 said:

so the last thing they want are things like immigrants and young people.

I was simply pointing out that the idea that there is a "Republican ploy" to keep young people and immigrants out of Ohio is a bit ridiculous.  Nothing more.

1 hour ago, Pugu said:

 

Yes, Columbus grew, but Cleveland didn't. And Ohio only barely grew. How much of Columbus's growth came from out of state vs. from CLE or Cincy or Akron etc.?  You want data on people who didn't move to Ohio because of its backwards policies and politicians? You know there is no database on people that did NOT make certain moves, let alone why. Move data is just that---data on people that have moved.

 

Franklin County alone counted for 61% of the total state's growth at face value.  Obviously, the math is a bit more complex than that, but still.  I think this is a phenomenon where people can kind of ignore state-level politics if they live in a location that doesn't feel like it shares those politics.  But Columbus can't prop up the state forever.  The rural areas are dying fast, and most of its main cities aren't fairing too much better.  If birthrates continue to fall and the population continues to age, the state is going to be in terrible shape demographically going in the not-so-distant future.

Edited October 25, 20213 yr by jonoh81

10 minutes ago, TH3BUDDHA said:

 

 

I was simply pointing out that the idea that there is a "Republican ploy" to keep young people and immigrants out of Ohio is a bit ridiculous.  Nothing more.

 

I would put absolutely nothing past them these days, but I don't see it as a conspiracy plot more than just acknowledging that high growth is undesirable for keeping the state predictably red, as that high growth would almost undoubtedly settle in urban, more liberal areas.  Are there even any real-world examples of a higher-growth state becoming more conservative?   Maybe Florida?? It's kind of a special case demographically, though, given it receives both high numbers of retirees and high numbers of the most conservative immigrant groups.  

 

And you kind of ignored the rest of my post there.  What is Ohio's exclusively GOP leadership actually doing to make the state more attractive for relocation if that was really a goal?  One bill doesn't cut it.

Edited October 25, 20213 yr by jonoh81

10 minutes ago, jonoh81 said:

And you kind of ignored the rest of my post there.

Yes, because I never brought that argument up at first.  You did.  I simply replied and pointed out that, unless we can definitively quantify the fact that GOP politics prevents people from migrating to states, it's nothing more than an appeal to intuition and isn't really valid, even though you guys keep using it as absolute fact.

14 minutes ago, jonoh81 said:

What is Ohio's exclusively GOP leadership actually doing to make the state more attractive for relocation if that was really a goal?  One bill doesn't cut it.

 

This? It was met with a "oh, that's cute" reaction here in NYC...🤣

3 minutes ago, TH3BUDDHA said:

Yes, because I never brought that argument up at first.  You did.  I simply replied and pointed out that, unless we can definitively quantify the fact that GOP politics prevents people from migrating to states, it's nothing more than an appeal to intuition and isn't really valid, even though you guys keep using it as absolute fact.

 

What is "an appeal to intuition?"  My desire to not live in a place like Dallas and my intentional skipping of such opportunities to move there are facts, not an "appeal to intuition."

These claims that backwards states GREW is not evidence that backwardness does not keep people away, as such places could have grown far more had better policies and leadership been in place. Maybe Ohio could have grown by 1,000,000 instead of the few thousand that it did.

 

Also the danger is, backwards people could attract more backwards people, making a place increasing less desirable for those seeking a decent place to live.

 

In fact, we have at least two people above so far out of four, supporting with actual facts that backwardness DOES keep people away.

 

 

Edited October 25, 20213 yr by Pugu

14 minutes ago, Pugu said:

What is "an appeal to intuition?"

An "appeal to intuition" is using your "gut feeling" that something is true as a valid fact in an argument.  Unless you can prove this gut feeling and we can both accept it as a definite truth, it's invalid as an argument.

19 minutes ago, Pugu said:

 

What is "an appeal to intuition?"  My desire to not live in a place like Dallas and my intentional skipping of such opportunities to move there are facts, not an "appeal to intuition."

 

He's going to argue that anecdotes don't count, and on principle I agree with that.  However, he's kind of ignoring that even if conservative social positions aren't preventing people from moving to Ohio, state government focusing on divisive social issues rather than creating conditions to make Ohio more attractive absolutely does.  And if you're not incentivizing people to move to Ohio, creating an even more hostile and divisive perception to potential movers can't do anything but cause even more harm.

Edited October 25, 20213 yr by jonoh81

6 minutes ago, jonoh81 said:

He's going to argue that anecdotes

Appeal to intuition is a logical fallacy and is a different thing from anecdotes.  Anecdotes are personal experiences.  Appeal to intuition is using your "gut feeling" about a topic as fact, which is exactly what you guys do when saying that GOP politics are the cause of Ohio's population woes.  Show me the data or quit using it as an argument.

Edited October 25, 20213 yr by TH3BUDDHA

It is a fact that young people tend to be more liberal, especially socially. It is also a fact that highly educated Americans are increasingly identifying with the Democratic Party because of the GOP's backward social policies and rhetoric. So it stands to reason that the Ohio GOP's far right turn and ridiculous culture war bills are going to do nothing but repel young, highly educated workers and business people.

12 minutes ago, TH3BUDDHA said:

Appeal to intuition is a logical fallacy and is a different thing from anecdotes.  Anecdotes are personal experiences.  Appeal to intuition is using your "gut feeling" about a topic as fact.

 

Where am I doing that?  Your original argument for that was based on something I wasn't actually saying regarding conservative politics- that it alone controlled population growth.  That was never my contention, though.  Here are the 3 main points I've made:

1. Ohio won't attract younger, liberal people by passing regressive laws.

2. Ohio's GOP leadership is doing next to nothing to attract out-of-state and foreign migration.

3. Since Ohio isn't doing much of anything to attract people, and it doesn't have built-in advantages that many people want (such as warmer winters), its attempt to become Mississippi are likely producing a net loss, since young people can't/won't replace all the retiring boomers- and other young people- moving away.

 

Basically, the point is that conservative, divisive politics won't save the state because that's not a game plan and there are already plenty of other backwards states that hate abortion, gays and immigrants that have other things going on.  Ohio isn't going to out-Right-wing the South, so maybe don't try.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 25, 20213 yr by jonoh81

11 minutes ago, jonoh81 said:

Where am I doing that?

Well, Pugu, which is who I was originally replying to with the definition, was directly doing that.

 

But:

7 hours ago, jonoh81 said:

part of the ploy for Republicans

 

7 hours ago, jonoh81 said:

so the last thing they want are things like immigrants and young people.  

 

3 hours ago, jonoh81 said:

the state is busy passing and attempting to pass dozens of other regressive, socially backwards, science denying and anti-democratic nonsense that is restricting rights and going directly against what younger generations view as important and attractive. 

But, if you aren't suggesting that state level GOP politics affects interstate migration, then we have nothing else to discuss because we aren't really disagreeing on anything.  I'm certainly not making the argument that people seek out conservative politics.  I think the migration data suggests that there isn't really much of a correlation at all, which is why I don't think it's really a valid argument.  People move for jobs, nature, and weather, which you agreed with with your comment on the weather in Texas and Florida.  However, I don't really think the weather argument holds up as well in states like Tennessee and Georgia.

Edited October 25, 20213 yr by TH3BUDDHA