On 5/24/2023 at 10:41 AM, NR said:

Interesting note about Columbus::  Columbus currently has the largest land area of any Ohio city; this is due to Jim Rhodes's tactic to annex suburbs while serving as mayor. As surrounding communities grew or were constructed, they came to require access to waterlines, which was under the sole control of the municipal water system. Rhodes told these communities that if they wanted water, they would have to submit to assimilation into Columbus.

 

This is a common misconception, but is not an entirely accurate representation of the postwar growth of Columbus

 

No existing suburbs have ever been annexed into the city of Columbus (unless perhaps you count Franklinton in 1859)

 

What did happen was as vacant or agricultural township land was developed with higher uses, to receive water and sewer service that land was annexed into Columbus as a condition of its development. The postwar "suburban style" development described would have happened regardless, what Columbus did was to ensure that the overwhelming bulk of it, and thus its property and income taxes, was incorporated into the city

 

So whereas in NE Ohio an area like Northland would be a separate or several separate cities of its own (with a population of ~97,000 in fact it would be the 7th-largest city in all of Ohio), instead it has for its entire existence merely been a neighborhood within Columbus

 

Subsequently, in the 1980s the win-win agreement between Columbus Public Schools and many of the suburban public school districts held the boundaries of each as static as the city of Columbus continued to grow. Thus, there are many areas within Columbus proper that are zoned for suburban schools be it Dublin, New Albany, Hilliard, Westerville, etc

 

This has both kept the size and influence of suburbs in check (there are no Columbus suburbs with a population over 50k for instance), as well as instilled a general sense of regional cooperation since almost every suburb either has extensive borders with Columbus, is completely encircled by it, or has thousands of Columbus students attending their schools

https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/OMB-Bulletin-23-01.pdf

 

Columbus CSA gains Athens.

55 minutes ago, unusualfire said:

Columbus CSA gains Athens.

 

That makes a lot of sense. When we lived there in the mid-2000's, plenty of people commuted to Columbus, and some OU faculty lived in or near Columbus.

 

It would be much easier now too. The Lancaster bypass opened while we lived there, Nelsonville was in planning stages, and nowadays at least some jobs would allow for remote days. 

2 hours ago, unusualfire said:

https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/OMB-Bulletin-23-01.pdf

 

Columbus CSA gains Athens.

Cleveland CSA gained Sandusky and Coshocton Counties.

2 hours ago, aderwent said:

Cleveland CSA gained Sandusky and Coshocton Counties.

Cleveland’s MSA gained Ashtabula County.

On 7/8/2023 at 2:54 PM, NW24HX said:

 

This is a common misconception, but is not an entirely accurate representation of the postwar growth of Columbus

 

No existing suburbs have ever been annexed into the city of Columbus (unless perhaps you count Franklinton in 1859)

 

 

 

You're forgetting Hanford: https://columbuslandmarks.org/hanford-village-national-register-nomination/

 

None of the sources I saw had a date when it was dissolved and annexed into Columbus but I think it was late '50s or the '60s.

For what it’s worth (not much probably) looks like Cleveland MSA’s rank and CSA’s rank will each rise by one, with the MSA now larger than Indianapolis and the CSA now larger than Denver. I don’t think either ranking will change for Columbus.

17 hours ago, aderwent said:

Cleveland CSA gained Sandusky and Coshocton Counties.

Cleveland’s CSA also gained Ottawa County because Sandusky’s MSA now includes Ottawa County along with Erie County. So now the Cleveland CSA extends to within 20 miles of Downtown Toledo.

Don't get the point of the CSA. IMO, it's the least used or useful measurement for an area's size. 

Edited July 23, 20231 yr by jonoh81

2 hours ago, pontiac51 said:

Cleveland’s CSA also gained Ottawa County because Sandusky’s MSA now includes Ottawa County along with Erie County. So now the Cleveland CSA extends to within 20 miles of Downtown Toledo. 

Good catch. By the way the crow flies it's less than seven miles from downtown Toledo. Then stretches all the way to Pennsylvania. South of Cleveland it now stretches to within ten miles of I-70.

1 hour ago, aderwent said:

Good catch. By the way the crow flies it's less than seven miles from downtown Toledo. Then stretches all the way to Pennsylvania. South of Cleveland it now stretches to within ten miles of I-70.

 

But for Youngstown/Warren, they should call it the Northeast Ohio CSA.

Is there any significance to CSA or is it mostly meaningless?

4 hours ago, LlamaLawyer said:

For what it’s worth (not much probably) looks like Cleveland MSA’s rank and CSA’s rank will each rise by one, with the MSA now larger than Indianapolis and the CSA now larger than Denver. I don’t think either ranking will change for Columbus.

Where are you getting these figures from, I am not seeing these reports in any publications. The CSA list a Cleveland-Akron-Canton grouping on Wikipedia, but no numbers on new MSA or CSA  population's, Where is this official listing.

1 minute ago, vulcana said:

Where are you getting these figures from, I am not seeing these reports in any publications. The CSA list a Cleveland-Akron-Canton grouping on Wikipedia, but no numbers on new MSA or CSA  population's, Where is this official listing.

We've had county-level populations. He probably just manually added the additional counties. I'm sure the Census Bureau will release their figures shortly. 

21 minutes ago, aderwent said:

We've had county-level populations. He probably just manually added the additional counties. I'm sure the Census Bureau will release their figures shortly. 

Thank you, I really want to see the numbers on the MSA, The CSA'S are meaningless but the Metro counts are very important, especially for my business.

2 hours ago, vulcana said:

Where are you getting these figures from, I am not seeing these reports in any publications. The CSA list a Cleveland-Akron-Canton grouping on Wikipedia, but no numbers on new MSA or CSA  population's, Where is this official listing.

I just manually went through and compared the new MSAs and CSAs to what’s listed on Wikipedia, then did some math. I did this for Cleveland and the other MSAs/CSAs that were already close to it in size.

15 hours ago, Mov2Ohio said:

 

But for Youngstown/Warren, they should call it the Northeast Ohio CSA.

 

I figure any place within one-hour's drive of Public Square should be in the Northeast Ohio CSA. That's 4 million people, or more than the population of our mother state of Connecticut. 

2 hours ago, KJP said:

 

I figure any place within one-hour's drive of Public Square should be in the Northeast Ohio CSA. That's 4 million people, or more than the population of our mother state of Connecticut. 

Looks like that is slowly, (very slowly) happening. Lol.

 

17 hours ago, LibertyBlvd said:

Is there any significance to CSA or is it mostly meaningless?

Given that these CSAs and MSAs are crested and adjusted based on commuting patterns, I find it interesting to see how these areas are growing together.

 

For example, Coshocton County is now part of Cleveland-Akron-Canton, but borders Licking County, which is just east of all the Intel factory developments, so it will be interesting to see if patterns continue to be influenced more by Canton or if Cbus starts to pull on it more.

 

15 hours ago, LlamaLawyer said:

I just manually went through and compared the new MSAs and CSAs to what’s listed on Wikipedia, then did some math. I did this for Cleveland and the other MSAs/CSAs that were already close to it in size.

 

So the Cleveland MSA is right behind the Columbus MSA at this point, based on 2020 numbers, we just need the new estimates to be released to confirm, correct?

It’s definitely head scratching to me that Ashtabula is now in the metro while Summit is not. Particularly with the new definition of a “Metropolitan Division” seems like Cleveland-Akron MSA would be logical.

Is adding Ashtabula county to the Cleveland MSA a result of more super commuters from Ashtabula to Cleveland, or a result of a change in definition / people commuting into Lake County?

How do they gather "commuter" data? Tax receipts saying person X works in municipality Y and lives in municipality Z? This wouldn't capture WFH.

Edited July 23, 20231 yr by aderwent

1 hour ago, Ethan said:

Is adding Ashtabula county to the Cleveland MSA a result of more super commuters from Ashtabula to Cleveland, or a result of a change in definition / people commuting into Lake County?

IIRC, Ashtabula was once part of the MSA. It was removed at some point because of how Lake County was classified within the MSA.

2 hours ago, freefourur said:

IIRC, Ashtabula was once part of the MSA. It was removed at some point because of how Lake County was classified within the MSA.

I remember that, in the early 2000s, we were at about 2.2mm in population, then Ashtabula was taken away.

10 hours ago, KJP said:

 

I figure any place within one-hour's drive of Public Square should be in the Northeast Ohio CSA. That's 4 million people, or more than the population of our mother state of Connecticut. 

Having lived in Warren/Youngstown the tricky part is while Youngstown leans more Cleveland than Pittsburgh, for many in Mahoning County, Pittsburgh is slightly closer and there are people who go to Pittsburgh for fun instead of Cleveland and whose allegiance is to Pittsburgh (again I'd say the majority is still more for Cleveland though).  Now Warren/Trumbull County is closer to Cleveland and definitely the vast majority of people go to Cleveland for fun instead of Pittsburgh.

I really like how they dropped Elyria from the MSA name.  I always thought it was funny that they saw Elyria as a big enough city to be listed as part of the MSA.  I am sure there is some method to the madness of determining whether or not a secondary city is listed.

8 hours ago, LlamaLawyer said:

It’s definitely head scratching to me that Ashtabula is now in the metro while Summit is not. Particularly with the new definition of a “Metropolitan Division” seems like Cleveland-Akron MSA would be logical.

Because Ashtabula doesn't have a city of almost 200,000 within it's county, having it's own suburbs.

13 hours ago, vulcana said:

Because Ashtabula doesn't have a city of almost 200,000 within it's county, having it's own suburbs.

Yea, looking at the definition, the answer to that question is basically Akron.

Edited July 24, 20231 yr by Mov2Ohio

I made a map of the new boundaries. CSAs where applicable. Toledo and Wheeling aren't part of a CSA. Gallipolis and Defiance are just micropolitan statistical areas.

 

On 7/7/2023 at 4:32 PM, unusualfire said:

It looks like Cleveland gobbled up Youngstown in it's CSA. Cincinnati and Columbus gobbled up a bunch of counties along with Dayton.

 

We will know once the official statments comes out. This is only for local pay. But it uses CSA definitions.  

 

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2023/06/28/2023-13621/general-schedule-locality-pay-areas

By this split, the Cleveland CSA includes (or will include) Mercer County PA which is physically closer to Pittsburgh than to Cleveland.

8 hours ago, Dougal said:

By this split, the Cleveland CSA includes (or will include) Mercer County PA which is physically closer to Pittsburgh than to Cleveland.

It seems like the designations from that early July link are incorrect, or am I missing something. 

 

I thought the ones that came out end of last week were the official changes.

On 7/22/2023 at 1:11 PM, pontiac51 said:

Cleveland’s CSA also gained Ottawa County because Sandusky’s MSA now includes Ottawa County along with Erie County. So now the Cleveland CSA extends to within 20 miles of Downtown Toledo.

Always the 3Cs, never the Glass City. :(

It is interesting that Warren, Youngstown lost Mercer County.  Poor little Mercer County is now its own Micropolitan Statistical Area.  I do find that strange too because living in Warren, the amount of people who would travel between counties seemed really high but numbers must have shown otherwise.  That loss will greatly shrink the Warren Youngstown MSA.  It will go from ~535k to ~425k.  

Demographia world urban areas report for 2022. They include Akron within the Cleveland urban area.

http://demographia.com/db-worldua.pdf

 

Cleveland, OH:              2,521,000    1,379 sq miles

 

Cincinnati, OH-KY-IN:  1,724,000     797 sq miles

 

Columbus, OH:             1,560,000     518 sq miles

 

According to their methodology

 

An urban area ("built-up urban area," urbanized area or urban agglomeration) is a continuously built up land mass of urban development that is within a labor market (metropolitan area or metropolitan region). An urban area contains no rural land (all land in the world is either urban or rural). In some nations, the term "urban area" is used, but does not denote a built-up urban area.

 

An urban area is best thought of as the “urban footprint” --- the lighted area (“city lights”) that can be observed from an airplane (or satellite) on a clear night.

 

An urban area (built-up urban area or urban agglomeration) is fundamentally different from a metropolitan area. A metropolitan area is a labor market (and a housing market). It includes a principal built-up urban area (the largest built-up urban area in the metropolitan area) as well as economically connected rural areas (and smaller urban areas) to the outside.

 

Since 2023, we finally have individual ethnic groups broken down instead of "Black, White, AAPI, blah blah" this map is just awesome to play around with!  Enjoy data/Census/map nerds! 

 

https://cinycmaps.com/index.php/ancestry-2013-17/ancestry-multimap

On 9/26/2023 at 9:49 PM, ColDayMan said:

Since 2023, we finally have individual ethnic groups broken down instead of "Black, White, AAPI, blah blah" this map is just awesome to play around with!  Enjoy data/Census/map nerds! 

 

https://cinycmaps.com/index.php/ancestry-2013-17/ancestry-multimap

 

Great map. Here are more details for the big counties. All ancestries with at least 500 people. Percentages are the % of the total ethnic population. 

 

White Ancestry

Cuyahoga County

German: 47,611 6.5%

Irish: 41,926 5.7%

Italian: 39,423 5.4%

English: 39,126 5.3%

Polish: 28,095 3.8%

Hungarian: 9,413 1.3%

Slovak: 8,545 1.1%

Ukrainian: 8,377 1.1%

Russian: 5,810 0.8%

Slovenian: 4,741 0.6%

Lebanese: 4,498 0.6%

Greek: 4,018 0.5%

Romanian: 3,656 0.5%

Palestinian: 3,491 0.5%

Scottish 3,362 0.5%

Czech: 3,271 0.4%

Serbian: 2,630 0.4%

Croatian: 2,535 0.3%

Arab: 2,320 0.3%

Egyptian: 2,108 0.3%

Albanian: 1,981 0.3%

Syrian: 1,750 0.2%

French: 1,706 0.2%

Lithuanian: 1,310 0.2%

Jordanian: 1,229 0.2%

Dutch: 1,143 0.2%

Swedish: 1,034 0.1%

Welsh: 891 0.1%

Turkish: 818 0.1%

Iranian: 814 0.1%

Iraqi: 812: 0.1%

Norwegian: 714 0.1%

Israeli: 656 0.1%

Austrian: 643 0.1%

Slavic: 622 0.1%

Canadian: 612 0.1%

Scots-Irish: 586 0.1%

 

Franklin County

English: 93,085 11.6%

German: 76,808 9.6%

Irish: 42,287: 5.3%

Italian: 22,192 2.8%

Polish: 7,228 0.9%

Scottish: 5,887 0.7%

French: 2,972 0.4%

Russian: 2,964 0.4%

Hungarian: 2,535 0.3%

Welsh: 2,443 0.3%

Greek: 2,393 0.3%

Dutch: 2,133 0.3%

Ukrainian: 2,110 0.3%

Iraqi: 1,929 0.2%

Palestinian: 1,615 0.2%

Algerian: 1,551 0.2%

Egyptian: 1,503 0.2%

Moroccan: 1,442 0.2%

Swedish: 1,421 0.2%

Lebanese: 1,251 0.2%

Slovak: 1,224 0.2%

Arab: 1,218: 0.2%

Jordanian: 1,213 0.2% 

Norwegian: 1,181 0.1%

Scots-Irish: 1,158 0.1%

Iranian: 987 0.1%

Macedonian: 920 0.1%

Scandanavian: 869 0.1%

Czech: 847 0.1%

Turkish: 834 0.1%

Swiss: 828 0.1%

Syrian: 798 0.1%

Canadian: 736 0.1%

British: 734 0.1%

Romanian: 638 0.1%

Albanian: 588 0.1%

 

Hamilton County

German: 94,062 17.9%

English: 49,620 9.4%

Irish: 28,172 5.4%

Italian: 10,894 2.1%

Scottish: 3,267 0.6%

Polish: 2,944 0.6%

French: 2,040 0.4%

Russian: 1,734 0.3%

Greek: 1,362 0.3%

Dutch 1,334 0.3%

Hungarian: 935 0.2%

Welsh: 870 0.2%

Lebanese: 824 0.2%

Swedish: 762 0.1%

Scots-Irish: 711 0.1%

Norwegian: 659 0.1%

 

Interesting that Hamilton County has a lot fewer ancestries represented in larger numbers versus the other two. 

 

Lucas County

German: 37,988 12.9%

English: 27,046 9.2%

Irish: 13,844 4.7%

Polish: 12,528 4.2%

Italian: 4,679 1.6%

Lebanese: 2,512 0.9%

Hungarian: 2,508 0.8%

French: 2,072 0.7%

Scottish: 1,545 0.5%

Greek: 745 0.3%

Dutch: 671 0.2%

Arab: 568 0.2%

Syrian: 557 0.2%

Russian: 517 0.2%

 

Mahoning County

Italian: 16,821 9.7%

English: 12,743 7.4%

German: 11,300 6.5%

Irish: 8,927 5.2%

Slovak: 4,083 2.4%

Polish: 2,362 1.4%

Greek: 1,262 0.7%

Hungarian: 1,261 0.7%

Croatian: 797 0.5%

Scottish: 756 0.4%

Ukrainian: 589 0.3%

Lebanese: 574 0.3%

 

Montgomery County

English: 53,099 14.5%

German: 41,392 11.3%

Irish: 18,219 5.0%

Italian: 5,411 1.5%

Scottish: 2,599 0.7%

Polish: 2,296 0.6%

Turkish: 1,586 0.4%

French: 1,542 0.4%

Hungarian: 1,104 0.3%

Dutch: 919 0.3%

Greek: 764 0.2%

Russian: 669 0.2%

Welsh: 611 0.2%

Scots-Irish: 609 0.2%

Swedish: 553 0.2%

 

Summit County

English: 40,540 10.1%

German: 34,575 8.6%

Irish: 21,247 5.3%

Italian: 18,445 4.6%

Polish: 7,220 1.8%

Hungarian: 4,006 1.05

Scottish: 2,666 0.7%

Slovak: 2,398 0.6%

Serbian: 1,580 0.4%

Greek: 1,416 0.4%

Lebanese: 1,309 0.3%

Russian: 1,263 0.3%

French: 1,234 0.3%

Slovenian: 1,021 0.3%

Czech: 982 0.2%

Ukrainian: 833 0.2%

Welsh: 825 0.2%

Dutch: 805 0.2%

Swedish: 797 0.2%

Croatian: 775 0.2%

Romanian: 703 0.2%

 

Edited September 30, 20231 yr by jonoh81

Black or African American Alone

Cuyahoga County

African American: 223,705 60.3%

Jamaican: 2,059 0.6%

Nigerian: 1,382 0.4%

Congolese: 712 0.2%

 

Franklin County

African American: 145,898 48.7%

Somali: 24,412 8.1%

Ghanian: 5,612 1.9%

Ethiopian: 4,878 1.6%

Nigerian: 2,798 0.9%

Haitian: 1,675 0.6%

Eritrean: 1,340 0.4%

Jamaican: 1,337 0.4%

Sierra Leonean: 1,296 0.4%

Congolese: 1,281 0.4%

Kenyan: 1,082 0.4%

Senegalese: 914 0.3%

Cameroonian: 869 0.3%

Guinean: 818 0.3%

Liberian: 750 0.3%

Sudanese: 637 0.2%

 

Hamilton County

African American: 121,809 58.2%

Ethiopian: 1,170 0.6%

Nigerian: 957 0.5%

Jamaican: 732 0.3%

Senegalese: 616 0.3%

 

Franklin County definitely has the most ancestral diversity in its Black population. 

 

Lucas County

African American: 48,471 57.0%

 

Mahoning County

African American: 18,894 54.2%

 

Montgomery County

African American: 65,199 57.3%

Congolese: 948 0.8%

Nigerian: 0.5%

 

Summit County

African American: 47,106 59.1%

Edited September 30, 20231 yr by jonoh81

Asian Alone

Cuyahoga County

Asian Indian: 15,673 35.6%

Chinese (Not Taiwanese): 10,236 23.2%

Filipino: 3,462 7.9%

Vietnamese: 2,460 5.6%

Korean: 2,384 5.4%

Nepalese: 1,464 3.3%

Pakistani: 1,204 2.7%

Japanese: 813 1.8%

Cambodian: 701 1.6%

Bhutanese: 641 1.5%

Taiwanese: 527 1.2%

 

Franklin County

Asian Indian: 22,024 29.7%

Chinese (Not Taiwanese): 11,799 15.9%

Nepalese: 7,082: 9.6%

Korean: 3,572 4.8%

Bhutanese: 3,559 4.8%

Japanese: 3,420 4.6%

Filipino: 3,190 4.3%

Vietnamese: 3,092 4.2%

Cambodian: 2,361 3.2%

Pakistani: 2,273 3.1%

Laotian: 1,680 2.3%

Burmese: 1,254 1.7%

Taiwanese: 901 1.2%

Bangladeshi: 871 1.2%

Thai: 637 0.9%

 

Hamilton County

Asian Indian: 8,071 31.9%

Chinese (Not Taiwanese): 4,359 17.2%

Nepalese: 2,199 8.7%

Filipino: 1,736 6.9%

Vietnamese: 1,383 5.5%

Korean: 1,345 5.3%

Bhutanese: 1,081 4.3%

Japanese: 815 3.2%

Cambodian: 566 2.2%

 

Lucas County

Asian Indian: 1,957 27.2%

Chinese (Not Taiwanese): 1,601 22.3%

Filipino: 641 8.9%

Pakistani: 568 7.9%

Korean: 503 7.0%

 

Mahoning County

No groups at 500 or more. 

 

Montgomery County

Asian Indian: 4,016 31.3%

Chinese (Not Taiwanese): 2,248 17.5%

Vietnamese: 1,546 12.1%

Filipino: 1,519 11.9%

Korean: 812: 6.3%

 

Summit County

Asian Indian: 4,755 21.0%

Nepalese: 3,615 16.0%

Chinese (Not Taiwanese): 2,322 10.3%

Bhutanese: 2,259 10.0%

Burmese: 1,781 7.9%

Filipino: 1,038 4.6%

Vietnamese: 974 4.3%

Korean: 771 3.4%

 

Edited September 30, 20231 yr by jonoh81

Hispanic and Latino

Cuyahoga County

Puerto Rican: 49,882 59.9%

Mexican: 11,428 13.7%

Dominican: 3,156 3.8%

Salvadoran: 1,751 2.1%

Guatemalan: 1,595 1.9%

Cuban: 1,516 1.8%

Spanish: 1,354 1.6%

Colombian: 1,295 1.6%

Peruvian: 1,248 1.5%

Spaniard: 1,217 1.5%

Honduran: 806 1.0%

Venezuelan: 631 0.8%

 

Franklin County 

Mexican: 42,731 46.9%

Puerto Rican: 11,520 12.6%

Salvadoran: 5,763 6.3%

Dominican: 4,541 5.0%

Honduran: 3,203 3.5%

Venezuelan: 2,225 2.4%

Guatemalan: 2,072 2.3%

Colombian: 2,063 2.3%

Cuban: 1,870 2.1%

Spanish: 1,607 1.8%

Spaniard: 1,523 1.7%

Ecuadorian: 1,070 1.2%

Peruvian: 1,025 1.1%

Argentinean: 603 0.7%

Panamanian: 531 0.6%

 

Hamilton County 

Mexican: 12,723 35.1%

Guatemalan: 6,533 18.0%

Puerto Rican: 3,437 9.5%

Honduran: 1,219 3.4%

Cuban: 1,065 2.9%

Spanish: 939 2.6%

Colombian: 826 2.3%

Dominican: 824 2.3%

Spaniard: 796 2.2%

Peruvian: 769 2.1%

Salvadoran: 766 2.1%

 

Lucas County

Mexican: 24,763 77.0%

Puerto Rican: 2,036 6.3%

Cuban: 638 2.0%

 

Mahoning County

Puerto Rican: 9,470 67.2%

Mexican: 2,122 15.1%

 

Montgomery County

Mexican: 9,875 46.6%

Puerto Rican: 2,963 14.0%

Honduran: 814 3.8%

Spanish: 608 2.9%

Cuban: 593 2.8%

Ecuadorian: 587 2.8%

Colombian: 569 2.7%

Spaniard: 549 2.6%

Guatemalan: 543 2.6%

 

Summit County

Mexican: 5,109 38.7%

Puerto Rican: 3,104 23.5%

Spanish: 642 4.9%

Spaniard: 550 4.2%

Edited September 30, 20231 yr by jonoh81

I think we're seeing the effects of certain cities being on prospective immigrants' radar at certain times. When immigration restrictions hit during the Depression most immigrants came from Europe -- Western and Central Europe for the most part. That's when Cleveland and Cincinnati were hot. Then you have 40 years of immigration being severely limited. When restrictions started lifting in the '60s, Cincinnati was no longer on the radar and the countries people were coming from were vastly different. You start seeing the Eastern Europeans and Latinos coming then later people from Africa and the Caribbean.

2 hours ago, GCrites said:

I think we're seeing the effects of certain cities being on prospective immigrants' radar at certain times. When immigration restrictions hit during the Depression most immigrants came from Europe -- Western and Central Europe for the most part. That's when Cleveland and Cincinnati were hot. Then you have 40 years of immigration being severely limited. When restrictions started lifting in the '60s, Cincinnati was no longer on the radar and the countries people were coming from were vastly different. You start seeing the Eastern Europeans and Latinos coming then later people from Africa and the Caribbean.

 

Cincinnati didn't seem to benefit from either era of immigration, as both Cuyahoga and Franklin counties have much more varied ancestry across all demographics, not to mention just significantly more people within those groups. 

3 minutes ago, jonoh81 said:

 

Cincinnati didn't seem to benefit from either era of immigration, as both Cuyahoga and Franklin counties have much more varied ancestry across all demographics, not to mention just significantly more people within those groups. 

 

Cincinnati was a riverboat city like Louisville that did alright during the railroad era, but starting after the Civil War, it was the Great Lakes cities that really boomed - steel, oil and later automobile production became concentrated along the Great Lakes, plus Pittsburgh. Those cities benefitted from the Eastern and Central European immigration through the immediate post WWII era.

 

Immigration after the 1965 reforms also coincided with the relative end of European immigration (except for some fleeing the Soviet Union), the Asian, Latino and African immigrant waves of the last 50 years, and massive deindustrialization/automation in the Great Lakes/Rust Belt.

 

So the post-1965 immigrants went to the major global hubs in the US - New York and Los Angeles, San Francisco, Houston, Miami and Chicago. Other Great Lakes cities saw some chain migration with refugee populations (MSP, Cols, Detroit, later Indy), but not the full-on global migration of the biggest cities. Those fascinating maps illustrate this well. 

 

Places like Cincinnati, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Louisville, St Louis, Milwaukee, Buffalo*,  Toledo have seen very little international immigration in the last 60 years, compared to the global hubs. Here in Toledo, most of the intl immigrants are people who have attended the University of Toledo or BGSU. Without those universities, there'd be almost none. Even the local International Center that assisted immigrants has closed here.

 

*Buffalo may be a recent exception, very actively courting new immigrants, and their 2020 census numbers reflected that, unlike just about any other Rust Belt/Great Lakes city. 

 

That last list of cities really are "backwaters" in the global migration experience of the last 60 years, and I think all of them coincidentally suffer from the "where did you go to HS phenomenon" that many newcomers experience when they arrive. I've gotten that question here in Toledo for sure. Most of the people I meet who have recently come to Toledo are actually returnees, boomerangs in their 30s and 40s who have aging parents and who have tired of paying high rents in the global hub cities. Very few people here in Toledo are moving here for the first time unless moved here for a job they have already secured, and then they don't stay. 

Thank you @jonoh81 for taking our time breaking it all down for us (though I'd love for you to do Montgomery, Summit, and Lucas, but I understand LOL!).  What stands out to me is how many more Koreans there are than Japanese in Franklin County.  That is surprising. 

2 hours ago, ColDayMan said:

Thank you @jonoh81 for taking our time breaking it all down for us (though I'd love for you to do Montgomery, Summit, and Lucas, but I understand LOL!).  What stands out to me is how many more Koreans there are than Japanese in Franklin County.  That is surprising. 

 

Yeah, Honda brought in some Japanese population back in the day, and they're concentrated in the NW burbs of Columbus/Franklin County. I think the Korean population is more recent. 

 

Edit- I added Lucas, Mahoning, Montgomery and Summit counties to the numbers above, and expanded to groups of 500 or more.

Edited September 30, 20231 yr by jonoh81

Yeah, thanks for that break down. I always thought the Somali and Nepalese populations were higher in Franklin County. The Northland area is very diverse! The City of Columbus estimates there are 45,000 Somalis in the city. This refugee group is now into the 2nd generation. The local Bhutanese-Nepali community estimates just below 30,000, but I'll bet that's inflated due to boosterism...

Huh???

 

Dan Miller on X: "Newly released 2021 employment data shows downtown Columbus is now the largest private-sector job center in the state of Ohio. Columbus: 61,864 (-3%)* Cleveland: 59,946 (-18%)* Cincinnati: 55,071 (-9%)* *(Change in employment since 2019)" / X (twitter.com)

Huh, I didn't think Downtown Columbus was that strong. White-collar jobs being dragged up to Dublin-Worthingon-Westerville-Polaris has been so chronic that our economy became extremely lopsided. And why only a 3% loss with WFH still going like mad?

3 hours ago, GCrites said:

Huh, I didn't think Downtown Columbus was that strong. White-collar jobs being dragged up to Dublin-Worthingon-Westerville-Polaris has been so chronic that our economy became extremely lopsided. And why only a 3% loss with WFH still going like mad?

 

I asked for a source; if I get one I'll pass it on.

Census estimates released for 2022. Ohio has big reversal in population growing 26k plus after decreases the previous two years. Ohio, Indiana, and Minneapolis led the way in the Midwest. Ohio doing so with negative natural growth currently but in a stunning reversal, a positive domestic migration. International migration was on par with other fast growing states Georgia and North Carolina.

https://www2.census.gov/programs-surveys/popest/tables/2020-2023/state/totals/NST-EST2023-POP.xlsx

3 minutes ago, bwheats said:

Census estimates released for 2022. Ohio has big reversal in population growing 26k plus after decreases the previous two years. Ohio, Indiana, and Minneapolis led the way in the Midwest. Ohio doing so with negative natural growth currently but in a stunning reversal, a positive domestic migration. International migration was on par with other fast growing states Georgia and North Carolina.

https://www2.census.gov/programs-surveys/popest/tables/2020-2023/state/totals/NST-EST2023-POP.xlsx

 

To be honest, I tend to think the state overall didn't actually lose- or lost a lot less- during the Covid era, and this is just kind of making up for that. Also, these estimates are for 2023. 

Edited December 20, 20231 yr by jonoh81