I thought the Census was pretty detailed and dependable, but the more I learn the more it seems to be based on estimates and assumptions.

 

You could also say that they base a lot of their data off of guestimations.  I have always been pretty leary of the census people, even more so now when you see that they were off by 7% in Cincinnati and even greater percentages elsewhere...that is a huge variance, especially when federal funding basically hinges upon this data (as you also discussed).

 

I wish there were a fool proof way to go about collecting population data, but I just don't think there is one; I guess you work with what you've got to the best of your ability.

Why should America feel "shame" for not being 10% muslim?  And what does this have to do with Cincinnati?

A country with a non-white/non-European population of maybe 10% tops - that's supposed to be more diverse than, say, America, with a population closer to 33% non-white/non-European?  And you support this by saying it's because half their ancestors aren't native French?  99% of America is not Native American.  Apples to apples, please?

 

No, we aren't 10% Muslim (though neither is France - probably much lower).  But how many black folks live in France?  It's 12.8% of the US, and I believe it's less than 1% of France.  How many Asians?  It's 4.2% of the US, and it's probably a blip on the French radar.  And do you think France is 14.1% Hispanic/Latino?

 

Please, France is lily-white compared with the US.  Lily-frickin'-white.

 

(US stats here: http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html)

Why should America feel "shame" for not being 10% muslim?  And what does this have to do with Cincinnati?

 

You should learn that no thread is ever consistant.  You could make a thread about "Nordstrom coming to Crocker Park" and then it's a battle between MayDay and MyTwoSense about Sephora's products.

I am curious why the interest in seeing France and US become Muslim dominated? Considering Muslim and Asian countries for that matter, have far less diversity than Europe/USA combined. Is it about tolerance?

I'm sure Toledo has the highest percentage of Muslims and Islamic tolerance in Ohio

I'm sure Toledo has the highest percentage of Muslims and Islamic tolerance in Ohio

 

You're basically asking for a CDawg essay.

David,

 

Stop egging C-Dawg on, create your own thread on the topic of Muslims in Ohio and which city had the highest percentage.  Any further talk about Toledo in this thread will be deleted.

I am amused by all the posts warning Cincinnatians not to get too excited about the new numbers.  No one knows how they arrived at the new numbers and can say for certain if the city actually grew or was undercounted 5, 10, or 20 years ago.  The important thing here is that according to the Census Bureau, the city will show as having grown from 2000-2005.  Two days in a row, the god-damned Cincinnati Enquirer had front page stories stating the city has grown since 2000.  This is quite a reversal of fortune, and this is now fact to all the same people who took as fact that the city lost the highest percentage of population of any major city. 

 

If the city was simply undercounted in 2000 and continues to lose, we will see that in the 2006 estimate and 2010 Census (although I am not sure how much faith I would have if they were 22,000 off in 2000).  I am sure it will be discussed then.  Anyway, I think we all realize there are flaws in the system (and I think it is likely we have less people today than 2000), but today people who live in Greater Cincinnati are getting a different view of the city.  And people who use Census data will no longer see Cincinnati as a city that lost population at the mid-point of the decade.

 

If it puts a positive light on things, that's great. I just think Cleveland and Cincinnati have very similar problems and that these new census numbers can be a curse, not a blessing. Some people will see this news in Greater Cincinnati and think "problem solved". I think we all know that's far from the truth.

^ This is Cincinnati, no one is thinking "problem solved".  We have years of cynicism to make up for...  These numbers are a blessing not a curse.

I think it's kind of funny how the responses have morphed on this posting. Why are we discussing Muslims in Paris? It's almost like we (Cincinnatians) no longer know how to take some really good news and actually crow about it. Lets face it, this report of our city's population numbers turning around are in fact what we have been looking for to validate what we've  known all along, that this is one of the countries premier cities in which to live.

I think it's kind of funny how the responses have morphed on this posting. Why are we discussing Muslims in Paris? It's almost like we (Cincinnatians) no longer know how to take some really good news and actually crow about it. Lets face it, this report of our city's population numbers turning around are in fact what we have been looking for to validate what we've  known all along, that this is one of the countries premier cities in which to live.

 

The person who brought up France is from Toledo.  And he said something so utterly wrong, foundationless and just off-the-wall that I discussed it with him.  The Muslims thing was a joke.

 

I don't think you can read this board for any length of time and think there's a "crowing about Cincinnati" deficit - we're all huge, huge lovers of this city.  If there's any hesitancy to embrace this whole "Cincinnati gains population" thing, it's probably because that statement is most likely false.  It's probably a mirage created by two different measuring criteria.  We are confident that there are millions of reasons to crow about Cincinnati - the last thing I want to do is invest that energy in a reason that's false.

 

You are right - there is no reason to not enjoy the good news.  Whlle we unfortunately cannot say for sure the numbers are accurate, I still think at the very least the city is doing better than the original number and that is still great news.  I also agree with your sentiment - we need more people who sell the city as citizens as they are the ultimate ambassadors.  I think many buy into the Enquirer and WLW way of thinking (because negativity and controversy sell), but if the city leadership concentrates on positives and measurable progress this will change.  He is a little quiet, but Mallory really seems to understand this.

I think it's kind of funny how the responses have morphed on this posting. Why are we discussing Muslims in Paris? It's almost like we (Cincinnatians) no longer know how to take some really good news and actually crow about it. Lets face it, this report of our city's population numbers turning around are in fact what we have been looking for to validate what we've  known all along, that this is one of the countries premier cities in which to live.

Thanks, I do tend to be more of an optimist and actually believe that we might actually have turned a corner with our population loses. I think this is the best evidence yet. I also believe, as has been stated many times before, that a large percentage of the loses are attributed to the decline in household size rather than the number of households moving out which has to level off sooner or later.  This thought coupled with the ample evidence more people are interested in living in an urban setting makes me think the possibilities we are gaining population is real.

Measurement criteria mean little, the individual's perception of the situation matters much more. Cincinnati - Hate, Love, Apathetic.  My home.

"All we need is love", hmm I think I've heard that somewhere before, or PROZAC. "The times, they are a changin". Any ideas how we might change this perception or is this a little too Pollyanna for you?

^ This is Cincinnati, no one is thinking "problem solved".  We have years of cynicism to make up for...  These numbers are a blessing not a curse.

 

Yeah, well now that DC "grew" from figures released about 6 months ago, some of its residents are demanding that schools stay open that that city wants to close which are 20 percent full in anticipation of further "growth". The mayor yaks on about how DC will have 800,000 residents (matching it's peak in 1950) by 2020. Frugality which helped DC get stable in the first place is going out the window, and I wonder if DC is headed for a fiscal repeat of the 80's and 90's. I'm not saying Cincy is heading down that road....just an example here of how a blessing can become a curse. :)

Census cost city money

 

Cincinnati has lost $104 million in federal money since the 2000 census count missed thousands of residents, Mayor Mark Mallory says.  Here's his math: The last census reported just over 331,000 people living in the city. The population should be more like 378,259, according to a 2007 study he sought by the Washington research group Social Compact.

 

He takes that difference of more than 46,000 people and multiplies it by $2,263, the average amount of federal dollars a U.S. Conference of Mayors study says is lost every year for every uncounted person.  That's complicated, but Mallory says his point is simple - if Cincinnati doesn't help the U.S. Census bureau do a better count next year, the city will lose money again. He pushed that message again Saturday at the seventh-annual Neighborhood Summit, a day designed to help community leaders learn new ideas about improving their communities and help them feel empowered to do so.

 

Read full article here:

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20090125/NEWS0108/901250359/1055/NEWS

City of Cincinnati intends to be fully counted for 2010 Census with new task-force group

http://www.soapboxmedia.com/devnews/0811cincinnaticounts.aspx

 

Cincinnati officials have been challenging Census projects for the past couple years and have been successful at the same time.  In 2008 City leaders were able to successfully have Cincinnati's 2005 population estimate revised to 331,310 up from 308,728.  The successful challenge showed that Cincinnati’s population trend was in fact quite stable from the 2000 Census count of 331,283.

 

As the 2010 Census count nears City officials are gearing up for a major effort called Cincinnati Counts which is a combined initiative of Cincinnati's Complete Count Committee and the Urban League of Greater Cincinnati with the participation of partners throughout the community.

 

City leaders cite that more than $300 billion is allocated based on Census results, and that millions is allocated in Cincinnati alone.  This means that a low population count could result in the loss of significant federal funding for the city of Cincinnati and the larger region.

 

The initial Census challenges stemmed from a statistical analysis of city records, including building permits, demolition permits, and conversions of buildings into apartments or condominiums.  That analysis showed that the city’s population was significantly higher that the Census estimate and has had officials hopeful that a higher 2010 Census count could be in order.

 

"There is too much positive activity and development in Cincinnati for the city to be losing people," said Mayor Mallory following the successful challenge, who has also led the city and regional effort to push for a full count in 2010.

 

Cincinnati's Complete Count Committee is emphasizing how easy the Census is to complete to encourage higher response rates, and cites that there are only 10 questions that take about 10 minutes to complete.  Committee organizers also say that your responses are confidential and that the Census count only counts people, regardless of citizenship or legal status.

 

As of right now volunteer drives are underway to get people to help with the Complete Count Committee.  Those interested can get more information by following Cincinnati Counts on Twitter and Facebook, or by contacting the Mayor's office.

 

On an semi-related note, it appears CPS enrollment will increase for the first time in 15 years.

^Yeah, I'm not sure whether that's due to population increases, or improved educational opportunities at CPS.  When I wrote about this in the past I remember hearing that some parents who were considering charter schools weighed their options and went with CPS because it offered a comparable education for a lower price.  Either way great news for Cincinnati and CPS.

I'd guess some of that is likely the state cracking down on the poorest performing charter schools and the roll out of the new buildings across the city. The key for the new buildings will be to hold onto those new students and change the culture that may have existed previously.

With the Census coming up and the 50 million deficit. Did Cincy really gain residences?

^2010 will tell the real story!    I've noticed many empty homes in and around Westwood and Cheviot filling up, and some of these new cars in the driveways have out of state plates. (Indiana and Florida mostly)

^You can count me as one of those people who'll have a Florida plate in an Ohio driveway.  :/