Though there are plans for re-development of Washington Park, in the short run the space now occupied by Washington Park School will provide parking for Music Hall that will be lost when construction begins on the new SCPA.

Anyone want to lay money that this "short term" parking lot will be in existence for any less than 5 years? 

 

Numerous naming opportunities exist, he said, including an outdoor amphitheater, to be constructed at the corner of 12th and Elm streets.

Will an ampitheater really work at that corner?????

 

^No way.

I'll give you 2:1 odds.  If it is still a parking lot in 2013, you buy me a beer.  If they remove the parking lot before that, I buy you two.

I'll take that bet.  There is a lot of money being thrown into that neighborhood.  I would be shocked if that site is surface parking in 2013

 

The amphitheater will work when (if) City Link goes through and the drop inn center is moved.  In fact, I think that the amphitheater is a great idea.  I don't think everyone is ready to give up on the dream of a real washington park neighborhood just yet.

 

I'll take that bet.  There is a lot of money being thrown into that neighborhood.  I would be shocked if that site is surface parking in 2013

 

The amphitheater will work when (if) City Link goes through and the drop inn center is moved.  In fact, I think that the amphitheater is a great idea.  I don't think everyone is ready to give up on the dream of a real washington park neighborhood just yet.

 

I second that (as expected).

I just found out that Mike Redmond was right above.  Rumor is that CPS is now saying that it is too expensive to rehab Rothenberg and they are considering demolition and building new at that site.

Which rothenberg??  The one on vine or the one on mcmicken?

^ the (good) one on East Clifton and Main.

 

^^

I just heard this today as well.  Apparently Ron Kull (who now works for GBBN) presented an analysis at a school board meeting last week, contradicting the district's earlier report that it was cheaper to rehab.  I'm very suspicious of this number, with the past shenanigans the district has pulled.  Checking the school board minutes, they are also buying 154, 156, and 158 East McMicken.  154 and 158 need some work, but are good buildings, 156 is a vacant lot.

 

Who wants to bet they want to tear down these too?

 

Between them and the Freestore, why don't we just bulldoze the whole freakin block there?  :x

 

Rothenberg (in Red)

 

154 East McMicken

 

158 East McMicken

I just found out that Mike Redmond was right above.  Rumor is that CPS is now saying that it is too expensive to rehab Rothenberg and they are considering demolition and building new at that site.

 

Thats why they call me the oracle of Mulberry.  Actually, here is my bet, no rehab, no teardown, but it will hit the NAI Bergman sales sheet.  Even Tarbell thought I was wrong on this one. :wink2:

^

Oh Great One, bespeak your wisdom and enlighten us :-D

I just found out that Mike Redmond was right above.  Rumor is that CPS is now saying that it is too expensive to rehab Rothenberg and they are considering demolition and building new at that site.

 

Thats why they call me the oracle of Mulberry.  Actually, here is my bet, no rehab, no teardown, but it will hit the NAI Bergman sales sheet.  Even Tarbell thought I was wrong on this one. :wink2:

 

If only you knew anything about the housing market in the downtown area.  :wink:

But tell us Mike, where will our new school be built?

They should stay at the current location on vine, no need to waste our money and destroy beautiful buildings. Enrollment is decling anyway.

I just talked to Liz Blume, and the planning group for Rothenberg is getting started next week.  Hopefully I'll know more then.

McMick;

I also saw that Irwin Rhodes, infamous owner of vacant lots has applied for demolition of 1632 Main, across the street from Rothenburg.  This area is shaping up to be the prime demolition zone in OTR.  I met with the CEO of the Freestore yesterday, and their are many buildings in precarious condition in these blocks.

 

I am tired of the freestore and the trashy building!  It looked like the inside of a crackhouse at the front door again yesterday.

 

Check out the awful Rothenburg website.

http://rothenberg.cps-k12.org/programs.html

 

 

Oh Great One, bespeak your wisdom and enlighten us

Gather round my children......

 

If only you knew anything about the housing market in the downtown area.

So so mean, but on that note I would like to announce that my wife is now on Gateway!  So if I need insight, I guess I will ask her from now on.

 

But tell us Mike, where will our new school be built?

Max has the answer...."They should stay at the current location on vine, no need to waste our money and destroy beautiful buildings. Enrollment is decling anyway"

 

Keep in mind, I am not looking at the situation as what I want to happen, but what I believe makes sense for CPS going forward.

1st and most important-WAY overbudget

2nd Declining enrollment

3rd they can now fit Rothenburg and Vine into a 60,000 sq ft space and are proposing to temporarily fit Wash Park into the same space so that makes three.... Wash Park gets built, leaving 2 with still declining enrollment, still overbudget and now you want to spend the money to move them into a 89,000 sq ft space?  It simply doesn't make sense, it hasn't made sense all along.

This area is shaping up to be the prime demolition zone in OTR

Both true and not so true, Larry Rhodes building lost a lentile onto the sidewalk last year (you can see it in the pic above on the far window on the second floor), has no roof in the front or the back and if you listen next to the front door, freeflowing water is pouring into the basement.  But next to that Vernon has his 5 buildings that are coming along nicely, Steve Krimer has the Blue building and the red one and they are in great shape, and there just isn't much else that I know of that is coming down.

If only you knew anything about the housing market in the downtown area.

So so mean, but on that note I would like to announce that my wife is now on Gateway!  So if I need insight, I guess I will ask her from now on.

 

I'm sorry, but what is Gateway?

The Gateway Urban Living Quarter.....The Q......The 100 plus condos a year for 4 years pushing up through the heart of OTR.....and I know nothing of the housing market in the downtown area?  :wtf:

The Gateway Urban Living Quarter.....The Q......The 100 plus condos a year for 4 years pushing up through the heart of OTR.....and I know nothing of the housing market in the downtown area?  :wtf:

 

It was your original wording that threw me off I guess...but that's great to hear.  As for the not knowing anything comment...I was joking around with you; hence the wink face.  I know you know your stuff.

As for the not knowing anything comment...I was joking around with you; hence the wink face.  I know you know your stuff.

To much to know out there, but I did know you were kidding.  I realize it is off topic but if anyone wants a tour, call Holly up.

 

80,000 sq ft building, the better question to ask on here is who needs a 80,000+ building that is looking to move right now but wants to stay downtown/ish?  What or who could go into this space that would make a positive impact, not just for Mulberry/McMicken, but for Main as well?

 

Now what sort of a fight do you think they would recieve if they chose to tear it down? Or if they want to keep it....it is loose loose for CPS.

 

*The Ohio Historic Society has listed the Rothenberg School to be located within the Over-the-Rhine Historic District on the National Register - NR#83001985

*The ventilation system of the building is inadequate to meet the needs of the users.

*The classrooms are undersized to meet current standards established by the State of Ohio.

*The building does have an automatic fire-alarm system but does not contain a sprinkler system.

*The building is not ADA compliant.

And all of this according to CPS themeselves.

 

11 million to renovate in 02 dollars, even if they can get that cheaper, get the place torn down, rebuilt, and for what...to house kids that are no longer here?

...But next to that Vernon has his 5 buildings that are coming along nicely, Steve Krimer has the Blue building and the red one and they are in great shape, and there just isn't much else that I know of that is coming down.

Well, there is the one next to the shell station and several others on Walnut that look like they are being bled by absentee landlords, One on the north side of Conroy that is vacant and in the way of Freestore parking expansion, and then the two that McMick mentioned just south of Rothenberg.

 

But maybe I misunderstood CPS's plans.  I thought the current thinking was to abandon Vine Street Hill site and Rothenberg would be the only OTR/downtown neighborhood school.  You (Michael R) keep talking like they are doing both sites.

Well, there is the one next to the shell station and several others on Walnut that look like they are being bled by absentee landlords, One on the north side of Conroy that is vacant and in the way of Freestore parking expansion, and then the two that McMick mentioned just south of Rothenberg.

But maybe I misunderstood CPS's plans.  I thought the current thinking was to abandon Vine Street Hill site and Rothenberg would be the only OTR/downtown neighborhood school.  You (Michael R) keep talking like they are doing both sites.

 

There is one building that is owned by Stoney Brooks that is for sale and then one occupied building direclty behind the shell station but there are no plans.

 

The plan was to abandon Vine and use only Rothenburg, what I am saying is that the plan will change to abandon Rothenburg for sale and only use Vine.

Rebuilds cheaper than rehabs

BY BEN FISCHER | CINCINNATI ENQUIRER

September 22, 2007

 

CINCINNATI - Cincinnati Public Schools officials now think they can save taxpayers about $11.5 million by completely rebuilding three schools that had been slated for extensive renovations.

 

In light of revised calculations, senior administrators likely will recommend new construction projects to the school board in the coming weeks, CPS facilities director Michael Burson said.

"There's a large force within the community and the city that would not tolerate the demolition of a historical building," Reinhaus said.

 

 

Yup and they are not going to get the levy $ either.

 

Reinhaus's statement was totally soft and underwhelming.  He should speak forcefully like Mary Kuhl.  Mike Burson has screwed this whole plan up.  CPS can go to h*** if they think they can tear down Rothenberg.

CPS can go to h*** if they think they can tear down Rothenberg.

 

Amen to that.

 

A recap of the situation, based on the meeting last Thursday:

 

GBBN (and Ron Kull) are the owner's rep in dealing with the building campaign.  Wilson Architects are the project architects for Rothenberg.  Turner is the Construction Manager for the building campaign.

 

The cost OSFC (Ohio School Facilities Commission) allows for a new urban 450 student school is $12.1M ($165/SF).  This is based on the state's cost data, and applies to all schools built with state money.  The funding formula allows that the state will contribute 23% of that $12.1M, whether a new or rehabbed school is built.  This means that anything above $2.8M is CPS's responsibility.

 

For Rothenberg, the assessment done by OSFC in 2001 had a budget of $10.7M total for a rehab.  Now that the project is finally moving again, a new assessment done by OSFC this year has a budget of $19.7M total for a new rehab.  We've only been provided with the summary budget estimates, so it's hard to see exactly the reasons for the huge cost differential.  Based on Wilson Architects' commentary, apparently the original estimate was a "patch and paint" rehab, and did not include any/enough money for exterior tuck-pointing and repair, selective interior demolition, only one elevator, and site amenities.  It appears that they are correct, based on the budget summaries, though some items seem suspect (interior finishes went from $1.6M to $4.6M).  Without the detailed estimates, their is no way to verify much of this information.  This number is not final yet, as Wilson and GBBN are going back and forth with OSFC to finalize the number.

 

The other problem is that we don't know if $12.1 million dollars is the actual cost of a new building, which is only based on SF numbers, not an actual design.  There are numerous costs not included in that number, including any additional land costs, remediation, demolition, and increased foundation costs due to the hillside. 

 

There are legitimate issues that are not solved with the $19.7M rehab number, including a new gym ($1.5M), lunch room proximity to playground, and on-grade egress for the preschool, 1st, 2nd grades.  None of the discussions takes into account the historic nature of the building as an asset.

 

Based on what I have seen, I believe the architects are correct that the original estimates were lacking, not necessarily to the degree shown however.  Without a true new construction cost, there is no way to analyze the true difference in cost.

 

We are (of course) under the gun schedule wise, unless we want to push off the project another year.  We are having  a tour of the building (4PM) and another meeting this Thursday (6PM) at Peaslee.  On October 22, CPS Board will be making a decision to move one way or the other.

I had several conversations with people after this article came out.  Do not worry, Rothenburg will not be torn down, rehabbed, or reopened--it will be sold.  I liken this to someone saying instead of buying this 2 million dollar house, buy this 1 million dollar house, its cheaper--it doesn't matter if you can not afford either one. 

 

CPS levy will fail, Vine Elem. will remain the elem. school for the area and Rothenburg will be sold off.

I would hate to see Westwood go personally!    The building looks like the Large High School on Sim City 4. :wink:

I hope your right Mike,  I had a dream....... Rothenberg is sold and turned into condos  90K-$1.5 million, Washington Park school is torn down and added to Washingotn Park. Old Scpa is turned into condos.  Mercer area that CPS owns and was going to destroy 22 historic buildings in OTR is sold lot by lot to developers.. Vine st Roth is renovated.

 

Remember when this chick that trashed OTR?

 

When asked about the historic buildings (Mercer site) her response was...

 

Frances Newell, CPS Board President "I have to honestly say I don't have any concern about historic buildings"

 

 

I hope your right Mike,

 

 

Well partly.  Rothenburg will not be rehabbed, torn down, or rebuilt.  But here is what I did not see coming--KD Lamp?  I just spoke with Liz myself and she says CPS is highly unlikely to pursue a teardown (well they may pursue, but not get) and KD Lamp is a possible location for the new school.  Learn something new everyday.  I still think the best course of action is to keep Vine but they say it is in bad condition, I don't see it, but they say it none the less.

^Another historic building, but this time located within site of the VOA Pogue Center.  Not sure about if that would work  (It would be right on the streetcar line though).  Seems like the Husman site or the parking lots on Sycamore would be better.  Their problem is they want soo much flat vacant space.  Luckily we don't have too much of that in OTR.

I do not know why they don't just reuse SCPA if you are looking at lots on Sycamore.  Or if they are set on a new building how about in the park that CPS already owns next to SCPA?

But that would make too much sense.  This is CPS we're talking about.

how about in the park that CPS already owns next to SCPA?

Too small. The vacant parking lots on sycamore would be a good alternative. and they wouldn't get much of a fight out of us locals either  8-)

In case you haven't heard.

 

Everyone invited and encouraged to participate.* Please share with everyone over 4’5”.

 

---------------------------------------

 

THIS Thursday, Sept 27

 

4:00 pm

Tour of RothenbergMeet at school, located at Main & McMicken

 

CPS Admin is conducting tour and convening meeting.

 

^

Tour is at 4PM.  Meet at Main and East Clifton entrance.

 

Meeting is at 6PM at Peaslee.

Too small. The vacant parking lots on sycamore would be a good alternative. and they wouldn't get much of a fight out of us locals either

I disagree, too small for what? What is the size of the building?  And they already own the land, flat land at that, buildable land! They don't own the parking lots, so throw in aquisition cost (I don't think they will get very far with eminent domain) and I believe that makes Broadway much more appealing. 

 

So my vote is the park in Pendleton.  We keep the Rothenburg building, we keep the old Woodward building (SCPA), Vine can close, move Wash park, we get a new, cheaper school, similar to the dream you described above.  Pendleton residents should welcome that right Max? Wasn't it Ty who showed up on channel 9 pleading for a neighborhood school about a year ago? Or do they not want a "neighborhood school" in their back yard?  I know I as a local would be more than happy to see this alternative pursued. :wink:

Mike,

If it came down to it I could care less If the school was built next to SCPA, just as long as no buildings are torn down.

If it came down to it I could care less If the school was built next to SCPA, just as long as no buildings are torn down.

Exactly my point.  I can not see a better location.  No teardowns, they already own it, new const, no hillside....whats not to like about building it there?  It makes all the sense in the world, which is exactly why it will not be built there.

It might be better off to just keep Vine for now and as the student population declines in a few years the only students left will be enough to fill the Peaslee neighborhood center.  :-D One thing is for sure my kids will never step foot as a student in a CPS School.

^We're in our second year at CPS and so far found the experience excellent. 

It might be better off to just keep Vine for now and as the student population declines in a few years the only students left will be enough to fill the Peaslee neighborhood center.  grin One thing is for sure my kids will never step foot as a student in a CPS School.

 

I agree with you, but for some reason the feeling is that Vine is in bad shape.  I was just inside the school no more than a week ago and it looked fine to me so I do not know what they are referring to specifically, the thing isn't even that old in comparison.  As for the second part, I am a Walnut Hills grad so I take some exception to that but I understand your point in general.

CPS likes enrollment numbers

Decline continues, but at slower rate as charters lose students

BY BEN FISCHER | CINCINNATI ENQUIRER

October 22, 2007

 

CORRYVILLE - Cincinnati schools officials say new data indicate the system's long-term decline in enrollment is leveling off.

 

According to figures submitted to Ohio education officials this month, 34,796 students attend CPS, including traditional K-12 classes, preschool children and those at CPS-funded satellite schools.

CPS likes enrollment numbers

That's down 712 students from last year's count of 35,508, a 2 percent drop. Since 2001, the district has averaged annual decreases of more than 3 percent....proof of the district's rebound

 

Now that is a spin!

^I thought the same thing!

lets see if I can spin it back.

 

That's down 712 students from last year's count of 35,508, a 2 percent drop. Since 2001, the district has [glow=red,2,300]averaged[/glow] annual decreases of more than 3 percent....proof of the district's rebound"

 

Although my math is a bit rusty, I would still say that they "average" 2.86% annual decrease in enrollment.  And that is probablly better than reality as I assumed exactly 3% although they said "more than 3 percent."

What if prior years' enrollment declines affected primary and elementary schools more then high schools.  Say parents with kids just starting school would be more apt to leave then parents of kids who had spent years going to school with friends.  Then enrollment would be weighted to the graduating classes so that more were graduating then were entering.  That way the 712 student lost might not represent students leaving for another school systems.

 

A bit of a stretch: maybe, maybe not.

"I thought John Hopkins was way off when I first read that earlier this week!"

 

CPS Responds To "Dropout Factories" Study

 

Last Update: 12:36 am 

 

 

Cincinnati Public Schools says the Johns Hopkins University study calling 1,700 high schools nationwide "dropout factories" does not reflect the current graduation rates.

The study said seven of Cincinnati's 17 high schools graduated only 60% of the freshman who started, including Aiken, Western Hills, Withrow and Woodward.

CPS officials say those four schools no longer exist.

They have been restructured into smaller high schools with higher achievements.

Aiken Traditional is now Aiken College and Career with a 2005-2006 graduation rate of more than 92%, and Aiken University.

Western Hills Traditional is now Western Hills Design Tech with a 68% graduation rate and Western Hills University, which graduated 96.7% last year.

Withrow is now Withrow International with a nearly 93% graduation rate and Withrow University with a 90% rate.

Woodward is now Woodward Career Technical. Its rate is not yet available.

 

Ohio pay rules could boost cost of CPS building plans

Bid requirements might call for prevailing wages

BY LAURA BAVERMAN | CINCINNATI BUSINESS COURIER

November 30, 2007

 

Cincinnati Public Schools on Dec. 5 will weigh new bidding requirements that could mandate the payment of prevailing wage, require contractors to enter project labor agreements or, at a minimum, up the level of training and experience required for contractors bidding on construction projects.

 

Supporters of these provisions think they'd help save the district money in the long run by hiring more qualified crews. Opponents believe they'd run up the cost of projects by as much as 15 percent, misspending taxpayers' dollars at a time when the district is strapped.