I saw them replacing the windows on the Hall of Justice last week. I took a couple of pictures and when I took the second one here I was approached and told it is illegal to photograph the building.

 

Who approached you and told you that it was illegal to photograph that building?

 

There is no veracity in such a statement. Hopefully our police department or county officers aren't suggesting such a thing to you.

 

 

(By the way, go here and read just in case the future holds more nonsense told to you.) http://www.krages.com/phoright.htm

I was taking pictures around 5pm and it was a worker leaving the building. He wasn't hostile or anything. I think he was trying to be helpful. He said "they'll call the deputies on you." At that point I had already taken the pictures I had wanted so I wasn't going to argue. I knew I was within my rights, but that doesn't mean the police wouldn't bother me. I've already had to deal with the cops due to my photography of buildings.

Good to hear that it wasn't hostile or anything.

 

Still sad that it seems they have procedures for calling the deputies on tourists and architectural enthusiasts.

^^ Thanks for photos Eridony.  And for risking police harassment (just kidding).

 

Columbus Underground had a couple more window replacement photos at http://www.columbusunderground.com/hall-of-justice-renovation-to-complete-county-campus-downtown-bw1.  Below is a rendering of what the County Government Center will look like after completion of the renovations:

 

The county apparently wants to replace the existing Municipal Court building with a brand-new one on the grass plot next to the more recently constructed Franklin County Courthouse/Court of Common Pleas:

 

https://www.dispatch.com/news/20190204/plans-for-renovation-of-municipal-court-give-way-to-proposal-for-new-building

 

The article mentions building something "iconic" for the downtown skyline. The current building is apparently 19 floors, however it doesn't seem like it carries that much height. I wonder if the gub'ment can put up a tower quicker than private development (looking at you Market & Millennial Towers!)

50 minutes ago, CMHOhio said:

The county apparently wants to replace the existing Municipal Court building with a brand-new one on the grass plot next to the more recently constructed Franklin County Courthouse/Court of Common Pleas:

 

https://www.dispatch.com/news/20190204/plans-for-renovation-of-municipal-court-give-way-to-proposal-for-new-building

 

The article mentions building something "iconic" for the downtown skyline. The current building is apparently 19 floors, however it doesn't seem like it carries that much height. I wonder if the gub'ment can put up a tower quicker than private development (looking at you Market & Millennial Towers!)

 

It probably doesn't seem like it carries that much height because it is directly next door to the 465 foot Franklin County Courthouse building. 

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9525827,-82.9987376,3a,75y,319.74h,101.68t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1smOIEU9Vt-px284FFW2TEzA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

 

It would definitely be great to get something built on that grass lot, especially if it's a building of substantial height. 

"If voters approve a new Municipal Court building, it would be up to county officials to decide whether the old building can be renovated for another use or demolished when the court moves out in three to five years"

 

Seems like a waste if they just up and move over a half a block, and tear down the old building. I'm weary about getting rid of any green space when there's surface lots a plenty downtown.

Sorry but "iconic" for the skyline might to them mean a repeat of the new courthouse or the Coleman Center- 6-8 floors covering the whole grass lot and then demolishing a 19 floor building for a sorry ass poorly designed windswept barren pocket park from hell. Not in such a good mood today. 

 

*Maybe by "iconic" they could put the metal cooling tower thing that idiot from Cali designed for the Scioto Mile on top of the 6-8 story Columbus government building clone lol.  "It would say COLUMBUS! like nothing else!!!".

9 hours ago, CMHOhio said:

The county apparently wants to replace the existing Municipal Court building with a brand-new one on the grass plot next to the more recently constructed Franklin County Courthouse/Court of Common Pleas:

 

https://www.dispatch.com/news/20190204/plans-for-renovation-of-municipal-court-give-way-to-proposal-for-new-building

 

The article mentions building something "iconic" for the downtown skyline. The current building is apparently 19 floors, however it doesn't seem like it carries that much height. I wonder if the gub'ment can put up a tower quicker than private development (looking at you Market & Millennial Towers!)

 

Whenever the city says "iconic", I get worried.  Columbus doesn't *do* iconic.  Another 7-10 story modern with a bunch of glass is about the limit of what I would expect for this.  Also, more government buildings won't help Downtown's excitement problem.  You need more mixed-use and residential for that.  Office buildings are dead after 5, and there is unlikely to be any street-level elements that would promote after-hours activity... because again, Columbus doesn't do iconic. 

Edited February 5, 20196 yr by jonoh81

8 hours ago, jonoh81 said:

 

Whenever the city says "iconic", I get worried.  Columbus doesn't *do* iconic.  Another 7-10 story modern with a bunch of glass is about the limit of what I would expect for this.  Also, more government buildings won't help Downtown's excitement problem.  You need more mixed-use and residential for that.  Office buildings are dead after 5, and there is unlikely to be any street-level elements that would promote after-hours activity... because again, Columbus doesn't do iconic. 

 

Government buildings in the state capitol are going to happen. Get over the "helping the excitement problem". It's a huge part of the city's economy. 

 

The entire River South district, just two blocks away, has popped up out of nowhere as a mixed-use neighborhood in downtown. One government building next to an already existing cluster of government buildings - one of which is a prison - is not going doom downtown Columbus. 

 

The inferiority complex is getting old. 

As someone who walks by this grass lot every day when I go to work, I for one have been ***dying*** for this grass lot to be filled in. I kept wondering if there was infrastructure underground that kept it from being developed, so I'm really glad to hear this.

 

So what will happen to the old court building? 

3 hours ago, cbussoccer said:

 

Government buildings in the state capitol are going to happen. Get over the "helping the excitement problem". It's a huge part of the city's economy. 

 

The entire River South district, just two blocks away, has popped up out of nowhere as a mixed-use neighborhood in downtown. One government building next to an already existing cluster of government buildings - one of which is a prison - is not going doom downtown Columbus. 

 

The inferiority complex is getting old. 

 

I don't have a problem with government buildings specifically.  But are you really arguing that such buildings cannot include mixed-use elements for their ground floors that promote street-level engagement?  Do you really want more parking garages and office buildings that create or maintain large dead zones?  It's not about government. It's about the narrow-minded thinking that only sees a single outcome as being possible.  You can grow the economy and still promote a better Downtown.  Your argument is weird.

 

And aside from a few projects, I think RiverSouth is actually more a missed opportunity than not.  Most of the projects have no mixed-use elements and most are short and don't bother taking advantage of the river views (it is RIVERSouth, after all).  The only thing getting old is the fact that "good enough" has become the defining characteristic of Columbus development.

7 hours ago, jonoh81 said:

And aside from a few projects, I think RiverSouth is actually more a missed opportunity than not.  Most of the projects have no mixed-use elements and most are short and don't bother taking advantage of the river views (it is RIVERSouth, after all).  The only thing getting old is the fact that "good enough" has become the defining characteristic of Columbus development.

 

I 100% agree with this statement. Many of the buildings aren't dense enough or contain blank facades and inactive ground floor uses that don't do anything that would create a desirable place for pedestrians or add to street vitality. 

 

The city I moved here from would have required roof decks on all of them and would have likely required either bay windows or balconies during design review to reinforce the connections to the river and none of the ground floors would have been approvable either. The LC buildings don't even have windows that open. The ground floor of this building is extremely bad design: https://goo.gl/maps/CkNcvGHXvWv and does nothing to make Riversouth an interesting place to be as a pedestrian. 

 

Building on the grass lot even if it's a government use would help further tie in a completely build out connection between the burgeoning node of activity on 4th and Main and Riversouth. Having more workers might encourage future infill in the area to contain more ground floor retail, although if the downtown commission was actually reviewing these projects thoroughly they'd be mandating better design. 

 

I wish a large out of state developer would come into Columbus and show local developers how a proper urban infill project can be done. I'd be so happy if Mill Creek, Gerding Edlen, or Trammel Crow would develop here, it would be a huge improvement over what Borror and Wagenbrenner are building. 

58 minutes ago, cityscapes said:

Building on the grass lot even if it's a government use would help further tie in a completely build out connection between the burgeoning node of activity on 4th and Main and Riversouth. Having more workers might encourage future infill in the area to contain more ground floor retail, although if the downtown commission was actually reviewing these projects thoroughly they'd be mandating better design. 

 

I don't think they're adding more workers, just moving existing ones that already exist 100' over.

4 hours ago, cityscapes said:

 

The city I moved here from would have required roof decks on all of them and would have likely required either bay windows or balconies during design review to reinforce the connections to the river and none of the ground floors would have been approvable either. The LC buildings don't even have windows that open. The ground floor of this building is extremely bad design: https://goo.gl/maps/CkNcvGHXvWv and does nothing to make Riversouth an interesting place to be as a pedestrian. 

A lot of those buildings do have roof decks, including the original LC buildings, for what it's worth. From an economic perspective I don't see how the downtown commission could force these developers to include ground floor retail when a good chunk of the retail in the area is empty. Highpoint still has vacancies, the older buildings across the street (where I think rent would be cheaper) are all empty, the old salt and pine restaurant space in 250 is empty. You have to start by getting people down there first, then the retail/restaurants will follow. 

1 hour ago, 17thState said:

A lot of those buildings do have roof decks, including the original LC buildings, for what it's worth. From an economic perspective I don't see how the downtown commission could force these developers to include ground floor retail when a good chunk of the retail in the area is empty. Highpoint still has vacancies, the older buildings across the street (where I think rent would be cheaper) are all empty, the old salt and pine restaurant space in 250 is empty. You have to start by getting people down there first, then the retail/restaurants will follow. 

 

If there aren't desirable restaurants and shops what exactly do you think is going to attract the people? If the store fronts sit vacant for awhile I think that's okay, once the density is there the shops will get leased. 

Well maybe the people who have to take the financial hit from empty storefronts might not think that it is ok. 

But they really do need to focus on either creating/maintaining retail streets(High) or focus on creating retail nodes like the one over on Fourth. And for the other areas they need to at least make the streetscape a bit more desirable in whatever ways possible to alleviate the "dead" feeling. Maybe public art, murals, green walls, amenities like fitness centers, etc. located along the street level, etc. They just can't have walls of brick or concrete. But just as all streets cannot be dead with no ground floor activity, all streets cannot also be alive and vibrant with ground floor activity-it just is not possible in the downtown that we have with so much office and government buildings. Just getting everything filled in on High will make the lack of ground floor activity in many of the parts of Riversouth less problematic.

 

But with concerted effort the city can get more residents in, more mixed use, foster nodes of activity and try to enliven the existing retail streets while making the connections between them  a little less gloomy and forbidding. 

 

 

*I really do hope I am wrong and they actually come through with something not only iconic, but with some decent height and good connectivity to the street. Hope springs eternal, I guess-even when it comes to downtown Cbus, which so frequently lets us down.

Edited February 6, 20196 yr by Toddguy

8 hours ago, 17thState said:

A lot of those buildings do have roof decks, including the original LC buildings, for what it's worth. From an economic perspective I don't see how the downtown commission could force these developers to include ground floor retail when a good chunk of the retail in the area is empty. Highpoint still has vacancies, the older buildings across the street (where I think rent would be cheaper) are all empty, the old salt and pine restaurant space in 250 is empty. You have to start by getting people down there first, then the retail/restaurants will follow. 

 

Actually, the Salt & Pine space isn't empty, it's leased by Condado. Condado currently leases the space as their corporate offices and test kitchen. I have been told that ultimately they picked the space because of it's ability to be flipped into a new concept if they decide to go that route (keeping most of the layout that Salt & Pine had).  Either way, for the time being it's being used, just not as it was before. 

 

Let's also not forget that the LC buildings also did include retail/restaurant space, it's just being used as their own brand restaurant 'The Goat". Looks like sidewalk patio space has been built out as well. Say what you want about LC having a more insular concept like this, but they tend to be pretty popular and program a lot of music and events that I think could help the deadness.

 

Overall, I don't truly hate the idea of another government building taking up the grassy patch that is already pretty dead space in RiverSouth, I just want the structure to be well designed and have some substance. I do think that even though it's only a block, it is putting those employees and occupants a block closer to the core of downtown which, if designed correctly, could encourage more interactivity between the courthouse and the neighborhood.

10 hours ago, 17thState said:

A lot of those buildings do have roof decks, including the original LC buildings, for what it's worth. From an economic perspective I don't see how the downtown commission could force these developers to include ground floor retail when a good chunk of the retail in the area is empty. Highpoint still has vacancies, the older buildings across the street (where I think rent would be cheaper) are all empty, the old salt and pine restaurant space in 250 is empty. You have to start by getting people down there first, then the retail/restaurants will follow. 

But if you don’t have the space, how can retail grow when there are more people?  These buildings will stay dead zones regardless now.  People need to think outside the box.  If retail doesn’t work now, how about office?  How about parking that can later be converted?  

On 2/5/2019 at 6:54 PM, cityscapes said:

I wish a large out of state developer would come into Columbus and show local developers how a proper urban infill project can be done. I'd be so happy if Mill Creek, Gerding Edlen, or Trammel Crow would develop here, it would be a huge improvement over what Borror and Wagenbrenner are building. 

 

What can we do to get them here?! lol

 

I work in RiverSouth. It's not quite that bad, I don't think. I think the new building going up on Main across from the 303 Front St. building is going to add some character. 

 

What really needs to go up is Millennial Tower which would be in the heart of all of this. That'll solve like, all the complaints I'm seeing here. Let's just hope it gets built.

 

And yes, I'd love if that government building had ground retail. Did they already say it wouldn't?

Edited February 7, 20196 yr by Zyrokai

The money for this project got approved in yesterday's election. So now do they have decide whether to renovate or build new? 

 

Do we know why Dorian Commons is fenced off? Could that be a courthouse site? 

1 hour ago, ink said:

Do we know why Dorian Commons is fenced off? Could that be a courthouse site? 

I hope it is not there. If so, then the southwest corner of High and Main will be doomed to be a green but dead space-undeveloped because it is city property but also not fully developed into a functional park.  And I really do not want them to demo the 22 story current building-just repurpose and use the extra space-it is government-you know they eventually will need it. Maybe they can eventually consolidate/expand some things there?

 

Don't they have 120 million lined up for this? That would make a nice building for High and Main. Better than a dead off-limits forever green space-that nobody will utilize.

 

*When I first read this I was thinking Franklin Commons instead of Dorian. They will probably expand parking onto the Franklin Commons space-a nice garage-nothing fancy-remember this is downtown Columbus we are talking about and there can never be enough parking! lol.  I can see it now-a huge new monolithic clone of the building next to it on the High-Main greenspace, and a big ugly garage on the Franklin Commons site-with a big giant elevated walkway connecting them over HIgh! lol

Edited May 9, 20196 yr by Toddguy

8 hours ago, Toddguy said:

*When I first read this I was thinking Franklin Commons instead of Dorian. They will probably expand parking onto the Franklin Commons space-a nice garage-nothing fancy-remember this is downtown Columbus we are talking about and there can never be enough parking! lol.  I can see it now-a huge new monolithic clone of the building next to it on the High-Main greenspace, and a big ugly garage on the Franklin Commons site-with a big giant elevated walkway connecting them over HIgh! lol

I'm pretty sure it would have to be the Dorian space because they said it was an absolute MUST that any new building connect to existing buildings on the block.

20 hours ago, Gino27 said:

I'm pretty sure it would have to be the Dorian space because they said it was an absolute MUST that any new building connect to existing buildings on the block.

Well I know it was not Franklin Commons-I was just speculating about a garage there and all. So does that mean the site at Main and High is out-or would that be considered "connected" to the building on the rest of that block. I hope it is not Dorian Commons...why do they have to tear up park space?

Does anyone know why Dorrian Commons, the park across from the courthouse, has been completely fenced off? Its been blocked off for a while now but no activity seems to be happening in terms of landscaping or renovation. 

3 hours ago, DevolsDance said:

Does anyone know why Dorrian Commons, the park across from the courthouse, has been completely fenced off? Its been blocked off for a while now but no activity seems to be happening in terms of landscaping or renovation. 

There was some talk back in the spring about a new courthouse being built. Wasn't it part of the May 7th ballot?

MODERATOR NOTE:  I merged this thread with the "Possible New Franklin County Municipal Court Building" thread from earlier this year.  The thread topics were overlapping and the information in both threads seemed relevant to the same issues.

 

As for as why Dorrian Commons is fenced off?  And could that be the new municipal court building site?  That question was asked on May 9 - after the city ballot to pay for a new municipal court building was passed.  We never did get an answer back in May and I don't know if we have an answer today as to why Dorrian Commons has been fenced off.  It might be possible that this could be the new municipal court building location.  But at the time of the ballot issue, the Dispatch reported this:

Quote

"Although a location hasn’t been set, a study conducted last year anticipated using the vacant land immediately north of the Common Pleas Courthouse, at the southwest corner of South High and West Main streets.  It would keep the Municipal Court within the existing complex of Downtown court buildings.  “That would be our preference,” Columbus Finance Director Joe Lombardi said. “We want to stay in that block. It just makes sense.”

 

For context, here is the area and the buildings we are talking about:

 

On 6/30/2011 at 10:50 AM, Columbo said:

A look at the Franklin County Government Complex of five buildings and two parking garages after the recent opening of the new Common Pleas Court building by The Dispatch: 

 

Planning begins to tie county buildings all together

 

 

 

Regarding why Dorrian Commons is fenced off, the answers is unfortunately not development related. My brother works for the Franklin County Sherriff and does building and site security for the court houses and county buildings. According to him, the official line is that the area is being fenced off for "potential development and preservation." However, he claims that it is being done to prevent the homeless population from camping out in the commons and from using the fountain as a bath/restroom facility. There is a homeless center behind the parking garage which increase the traffic and the county got tired of dealing with the various issues that comes with it. I pushed him on this point and he said that the commons are still open to county employees on their break and that the county wants to sell off the land that the Commons, Karne' building, and County Services Building sit on. Obviously none of that is verifiable by outside means, but I trust my brother's knowledge as he has been there some time. 

2 hours ago, capitalkid1991 said:

Regarding why Dorrian Commons is fenced off, the answers is unfortunately not development related. My brother works for the Franklin County Sherriff and does building and site security for the court houses and county buildings. According to him, the official line is that the area is being fenced off for "potential development and preservation." However, he claims that it is being done to prevent the homeless population from camping out in the commons and from using the fountain as a bath/restroom facility. There is a homeless center behind the parking garage which increase the traffic and the county got tired of dealing with the various issues that comes with it. I pushed him on this point and he said that the commons are still open to county employees on their break and that the county wants to sell off the land that the Commons, Karnes building, and County Services Building sit on. Obviously none of that is verifiable by outside means, but I trust my brother's knowledge as he has been there some time. 

 

Well that's really unfortunate.  You would think the one public space that could be patrolled to curb that kind of behavior would be next to County Sheriff's office(!)  But I know that a recent Supreme Court decision has seemingly hamstrung local police from curbing homeless activities in public spaces (usually right-of-ways/sidewalks but I suppose a publicly owned plaza might be interpreted the same).

 

I wonder what homeless center behind the County parking garage is being referred to.  I was aware of the Volunteers of America facility in the northern part of downtown (just north of the Edwards Gay/Long Street Neighborhood Launch development) and the former Open Shelter people operating out of a church at Broad & Third.  But I wasn't aware of anything in this area.

^That's unfortunate. It's a nice public space with mature trees. Seems like it could be patrolled to avoid the bathing and restroom issues. Homeless have just as much right to public spaces as everyone else.

 

I believe the Open Shelter is in the church just east of the county parking garage on E Mound St.

4 hours ago, Pablo said:

I believe the Open Shelter is in the church just east of the county parking garage on E Mound St.

 

I didn't realize that the Open Shelter had moved to that church on E. Mound Street nearby Dorrian Commons.  But that explains alot.  If you're not familiar with the Open Shelter, it is not like any other homeless facility in Central Ohio.  The husband-and-wife couple that operate it (particularly the husband) are hard-core homeless advocates.  And as a result, they attract the hard-core homeless to the Open Shelter.  Just imagine your worst experience with a homeless person and then imagine dozens or more together in the Open Shelter and then in Dorrian Commons.

 

The Open Shelter differs from every other homeless shelter in Central Ohio in that they basically accept anyone with no conditions.  Every other shelter attempts to provide support services for the homeless so that they will one day no longer be homeless.  That's why the Open Shelter was defunded by the Community Shelter Board, because of their hard-core attitude.

 

But despite that, the County officials were probably able to patrol and dissuade anti-social behavior in Dorrian Commons until a recent Federal Court decision in 2018.  From what I can tell, the City of Boise was sued for their attempts to handle homelessness and in Sept. 2018 a Federal Appeals Court ruling basically banned many previous enforcement actions against the homeless.  It looks like the case is headed to the Supreme Court.  Below are a few articles about this:

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/05/us/-homeless-sleeping-on-street-ruling.html

https://www.curbed.com/2019/4/5/18296772/homeless-lawsuit-boise-appeals-court

https://www.city-journal.org/boise-idaho-homelessness

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/community/boise/article234271652.html

 

Given what we know about the Open Shelter and given the recent law that hamstrings the ability to limit the resulting bad behavior in nearby Dorrian Commons - I can't say I'm surprised that the County would take the drastic action of fencing off Dorrian Commons from the Open Shelter homeless.

 

BTW - I found this April 2017 Dispatch article (freely readable at the ThisWeekNews link) that profiled Kent and Mary Beittel - the husband-and-wife couple that runs the Open Shelter.  Google tells me that Mary Beittel died later in 2017, but Kent Beittel is still currently listed as the Executive Director/CEO of the Open Shelter at age 71.

 

https://www.thisweeknews.com/news/20170402/ailing-couple-longtime-advocates-for-homeless-prepare-for-life-after-open-shelter

I walk or bike past this site daily on my commute -- That fencing they put up is no joke. Polar opposite of temporary. Looks to be bolted into the concrete with multiple signs warning against trespassing. Seems legit that it is to curb the misuse as opposed to prepping for a sale based on the fencing alone. 

I agree that it is a shame -- beautiful little nook of downtown with mature trees. Sad to see it so uninviting now. 

New Municipal Courthouse to replace Downtown park at South High and Mound streets

 

 

A new Franklin County Municipal Courthouse would be constructed Downtown on the site of Dorrian Commons, a county-owned park on the southeast corner of South High and Mound streets, under a plan being negotiated by county and city officials.

 

The site also would include the land occupied by the James A. Karnes Building, immediately south of the park, meaning the new courthouse property would stretch along South High from Mound to Fulton streets.

 

https://www.thisweeknews.com/news/20200123/new-municipal-courthouse-to-replace-downtown-park-at-south-high-and-mound-streets

 

Well that's disappointing. Is this that new big one that was being talked about? I thought it was going to go in the open grass spot across the street from this park. I know the park has been fenced off (why, again?) but.....it really should have been given new life rather than making it disappear. The trees are nice there. Columbus needs more urban trees. There's virtually no urban tree canopy here.

Edited January 23, 20205 yr by Zyrokai

15 minutes ago, Zyrokai said:

Well that's disappointing. Is this that new big one that was being talked about? I thought it was going to go in the open grass spot across the street from this park. I know the park has been fenced off (why, again?) but.....it really should have been given new life rather than making it disappear. The trees are nice there. Columbus needs more urban trees. There's virtually no urban tree canopy here.

 

If you read the article it should answer your questions. They want to put the new building in this location to more easily connect all of their buildings, which is understandable. 

 

I'm always in favor of more urban parks, but this one was not all that great. Yes there were some trees around the perimeter, but it was mostly just concrete with a little fountain in the middle. I would rather see them turn the grass lot at Main and High into a more useful park. 

9 minutes ago, Zyrokai said:

Well that's disappointing. Is this that new big one that was being talked about? I thought it was going to go in the open grass spot across the street from this park. I know the park has been fenced off (why, again?) but.....it really should have been given new life rather than making it disappear. The trees are nice there. Columbus needs more urban trees. There's virtually no urban tree canopy here.

 

Yes, this is the courthouse that has been talked about, the possibly big-ish new one approved by voters last year.

 

Based on what I have heard and read the reason it is not going in the grass lot along next to the Common Pleas Courthouse or the lot next to the former Blind Lady Tavern is because the county isn't willing to give up either of those plots for the city.Honestly I'm not quite sure what levels of the city and county own what, but the overall is that they aren't really interested in giving up their own slices of downtown. 

 

https://www.dispatch.com/news/20190426/columbus-preferred-location-for-municipal-court-building-might-not-be-available

 

As for Dorrian Commons, the park has been fenced off for almost a year now because the county decided they were done dealing with the homeless problem in the park and fenced it off. I know the city and county had been bickering back and forth about having it closed off, so as much as I hate the loss of a park, this kind of seems like the best solution. However, on the bight side we get to cover up the hideous courthouse garage. 

Very glad to hear this. I hope the Karnes Building is removed and a landmark courthouse occupies the entire block.

 

Columbus Commons and the Scioto Mile provide sufficient greenspace in this area.

1 minute ago, DevolsDance said:

Yes, this is the courthouse that has been talked about, the possibly big-ish new one approved by voters last year.

 

Do we have any idea how big this new building could be?

6 minutes ago, cbussoccer said:

 

Do we have any idea how big this new building could be?

 

Unfortunately not yet, I believe the final size of the building was going to be dictated by the land they were able to acquire. 

 

I think this will be taller than if they had been able to build on the land next to the Common Pleas Courthouse but it'll likely be shorter than the current Municipal Courthouse. If I had to guess looking at the plot sizes, functions moving to this building, and keeping with consistency means we will probably see a plaza, I would guess we will see something in the 10-15 floor range. 

Groundbreaking as early as 2022 if everything goes well... I can hardly wait..... 

 

As for the lot next to Blind Lady and even Dorian, chain link fencing blocking off public lands is annoying. Even if they aren't the most attractive parks, the fencing looks awful and knowing full well the intent it to keep 'undesirables' out while the city and county lag behind what is actually needed to help the homeless population makes it more frustrating. The official position of 'we are working to preserve the land for potential future development' is ridiculous.

 

And I don't agree that the river and columbus commons are sufficient. That's actually a bit too sparse. If they would spruce up the grass next to the county court, we'd have plenty for the complex, no worries. If it's not going to be a building, let's see a proper park put in there. Green space and urban tree cover should be experienced every other block or so in some form or another. Particularly for areas of attraction. Many people come in and out of the government complexes and never get a chance to see or experience any other areas so for me, it would be important to maintain greenspace at this complex in some form, with the land next to the courthouse being the most logical to me. The south high and third street caps will help as well, although not as much as could be but hey, state funding can only go so far for visionary concepts I suppose. 

 

For comparison, many large projects in Chicago are now being pushed to include publicly accessible green space because they've realized the value of these regular respites after years of assuming 'there's a plaza a couple blocks away' or 'it's not far from the park' isn't as sufficient as maybe it once was. 

^I agree. Columbus is woefully behind other cities in parks. 

https://radio.wosu.org/post/columbus-loses-points-quality-public-parks#stream/0

Also, public buildings should have public exterior space as well. City Hall and the Statehouse have it, so should the County.

19 minutes ago, Pablo said:

^I agree. Columbus is woefully behind other cities in parks. 

https://radio.wosu.org/post/columbus-loses-points-quality-public-parks#stream/0

Columbus is now 52nd (2019). But, have you ever looked at ParkScore's map for Columbus? Zero Ohio State parks are included. The Oval, South Oval, Lincoln Tower Park, Chadwick Arboretum, The Wilma H. Schiermeier Olentangy River Wetland Research Park, Fred Beekman Park, and the Bloch Cancer Survivors Plaza are not included. This would add not only acreage, but ball fields, tennis courts, basketball courts, etc. Even looking at the Scioto Audubon Metro Park it's not mapped properly. Only half the acreage is mapped, and it's missing the dog park and obstacle course. Walnut Woods Metro Park isn't even close to being mapped properly. It's missing probably over 1,000 acres and at least a playground and dog park. My guess is the cities more highly rated have much better rates of accurate mapping. I agree Columbus should be doing better with urban parks, but ParkScore should be taken with a large grain of salt.

I am curious about one part of the article indicating dorian commons was the location of the old courthouse. Was the demolition of the old courthouse another unfortunate byproduct of the overzealous demolition mindsets of the 1970s with a lack of foresight into the benefits of historical structures?

Let's not pretend Dorrian Commons was anything special folks. It's 50% concrete with a smaller grassy area covered by a few trees. I'm a huge proponent of good urban pocket parks, but this was not one of them. It's totally reasonable for the county to want strategically locate their buildings. 

 

Rather than complaining about this "park" being removed, I think it would be more beneficial in the long run for us to pressure the city to bring Franklin Commons on Mound Street and the grass lot at the corner of High up to an acceptable standard. 

 

I do feel the city has really been making an effort over the past ~10 years to prioritize public park spaces in the downtown area. They turned City Center mall into green space. They worked a miracle with the river front. They turned barren parking lots behind COSI into a relatively large park area. Vets Memorial went from being a cold ugly building into a building with a good deal of green space. They included good chunk of green space with the 8-story development next to the Police HQ/City Hall. We obviously need to keep improving, but a lot of progress has been made recently.

 

 

27 minutes ago, aderwent said:

ParkScore should be taken with a large grain of salt

 

All city rankings should be taken with a large grain of salt. 

1 hour ago, DTCL11 said:

I am curious about one part of the article indicating dorian commons was the location of the old courthouse. Was the demolition of the old courthouse another unfortunate byproduct of the overzealous demolition mindsets of the 1970s with a lack of foresight into the benefits of historical structures?

 

Partly due to longstanding neglect and partly due to that mid-century desire to replace everything historic with a parking lot or a "modern" version of the same thing.  Going back to the 1950s, there had been pieces of masonry falling off the old courthouse, particularly around the clock tower, and because of that and other "structural issues", the entire tower was removed in 1954 rather than spending the money to repair it.  Continued modifications afterward further removed historic elements, and the building itself was described as being dirty from almost a century of factory soot.  Clearly, deferred maintenance and a lack of preserving architectural features made it less attractive for saving.

When it was announced that it would be torn down, preservations filed a lawsuit against the demolition, but articles around the time say that the building was too outdated to serve modern needs or to renovate.  However, this seems a little dishonest given that the site the building was on was never under consideration as the site of a new courthouse, nor was there ever any serious consideration given to renovating it.  The push was always to get rid of it.  The views of historic buildings at the time were clearly biased against trying to save it in any capacity. There was no appreciation for its age or style.  A 1979 article detailing the history of Franklin County courthouses even described the architectural style as "fussy".  

 

Edited January 23, 20205 yr by jonoh81

1 hour ago, cbussoccer said:

Let's not pretend Dorrian Commons was anything special folks. It's 50% concrete with a smaller grassy area covered by a few trees. I'm a huge proponent of good urban pocket parks, but this was not one of them. It's totally reasonable for the county to want strategically locate their buildings. 

 

Rather than complaining about this "park" being removed, I think it would be more beneficial in the long run for us to pressure the city to bring Franklin Commons on Mound Street and the grass lot at the corner of High up to an acceptable standard. 

 

I do feel the city has really been making an effort over the past ~10 years to prioritize public park spaces in the downtown area. They turned City Center mall into green space. They worked a miracle with the river front. They turned barren parking lots behind COSI into a relatively large park area. Vets Memorial went from being a cold ugly building into a building with a good deal of green space. They included good chunk of green space with the 8-story development next to the Police HQ/City Hall. We obviously need to keep improving, but a lot of progress has been made recently.

 

 

 

There's also a mini park going in with the PNC building conversion.  I'm much more concerned with them putting some mixed-use elements along the street.  This should not be like the Coleman center, creating a dead zone because there is nothing but an entrance.  Government buildings in Columbus are almost universally horribly designed when it comes to adding to the streetscape.