Playhouse move 'preliminary'

Arts buzz

BY JACKIE DEMALINE | [email protected]

 

If you've been waiting for an update on the possible plan to move Cincinnati Playhouse in the Park and Children's Theatre of Cincinnati to a joint performing center downtown at Fifth and Race streets - you'll be waiting a little longer.  "Very preliminary" sketches were delivered to Playhouse by consulting firm Theatre Projects late last month, says Playhouse rep Christa Skiles.

 

Key elements are a 650-seat proscenium, 300-seat second stage, 200-seat educational theater for Playhouse; a 1,200- to 1,400- seat theater to be home to Children's Theatre and potential use for mid-size productions by other local companies (Cincinnati Ballet, Cincinnati Opera); and offices and rehearsal space.

 

Read full article here:

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/AB/20070617/ENT07/706170309/

Okay, let me get this straight.  Eagle Realty has the development rights for the site until August.  They are planning a condo tower.  Now where does this proposed idea of moving the Playhouse to the site fit in?  The way it has been reported, it seems as if Playhouse just said, "Hey, maybe we should move to Fifth and Race," assuming 1) Eagle would lose its development rights, or 2) they could work something out with Eagle.  We have no indication that there has been discussions between Playhouse and Eagle at this point, do we?  And, does anybody know where Eagle stands on resolving the city manager's "preconditions"?  The deadline is quickly approaching for Eagle.

I'm sure in a couple weeks Eagle will release a fancy new rendering and then ask for an extension on the development rights until at least next summer, which I'm sure they'll get.

Okay, let me get this straight.  Eagle Realty has the development rights for the site until August.  They are planning a condo tower.  Now where does this proposed idea of moving the Playhouse to the site fit in?  The way it has been reported, it seems as if Playhouse just said, "Hey, maybe we should move to Fifth and Race," assuming 1) Eagle would lose its development rights, or 2) they could work something out with Eagle.  We have no indication that there has been discussions between Playhouse and Eagle at this point, do we?  And, does anybody know where Eagle stands on resolving the city manager's "preconditions"?  The deadline is quickly approaching for Eagle.

 

I believe that they are working with Eagle Realty.  This would be something included in the project most likely...I emailed Eagle just recently about the status of this project and was asked what my specific interests were...I responded and have received nothing back.  I wish they would quit screwing around with this project...either do it, or let some one else go in and do something there.

They've been playing this game for a decade, and the City keeps indulging them. At some point, the City will not renew. But noone else is going to put the effort into a new proposal for the site while Eagle has the preferred developer agreement.

How can it be "Playhouse in the Park" on 5th and Race?  Why not keep it in Mt. Adams?  This sort of venue belongs in Mt. Adams or The Banks.  Put a grocer at 5th and Race and make better use of the space.

THere are 3 basic things downtown needs and for the life of me I can't figure out why they don't exist.  A bookstore, a grocer and a sushi place. I have already poined out a grocery would be perfect on Cetral Pkway b/c it would serve both CBD and OTR and it would be on the streetcar route.  As for a Borders type bookstore and a sushi palce, the ground floor of an apt building on 5th and Race would be perfect.  I don't think it has to be a 20 or 30 story tower.  I think an 8 to 10 story building would be perfect and have no trouble filling up given that location.

Aren't there already some sushi places downtown?  Benihana's has a sushi bar, and there is also Ko Sho on 9th Street.

 

Joseph Beth Booksellers or a Border's would be great downtown.  I would prefeer JB because there aren't as many of those.  There is currently Brentano's, which is small, and the Ohio Bookstore on Main St.  There are some small grocers downtown, such as Sunshine Fine Foods.

Who cares what occupies the space?  Just build it.  I'm sick of the delays.  The site needs to be occupied with SOMETHING.  The vacant lot is a joke.  Build something NOW!

I think we have played this game in other threads, however . . .

 

If I had control of a ‘kit of parts’ that I thought were missing downtown, I guess I wouldn’t put a Playhouse in the Park theatre complex at 5th & Race.  I would locate a bookstore – like Joseph Beth (preferred) or Borders, etc. – and movie theatre at that site. I understand Playhouse’s intended desire to be near Fountain Square but think the movie theatre and bookstore would benefit more. 

 

As I said in a previous post, if Playhouse wants to move downtown I think a location on Central Riverfront Park in the Banks makes the most sense (and keep the ‘Playhouse in the Park’ moniker) but my other choice would be at the large block at the SE corner of Walnut & Central Parkway.  Thus ‘Playhouse on the Parkway’.  This location on the streetcar route would continue to concentrate a number of arts organizations in the lower OTR with Music Hall, Ensemble Theatre, Know Theatre, New Stage Collective and be a link down Walnut to the Aronoff Center & Fountain Square.  In addition, why not renovate & use the mothballed Emery Auditorium just north on Walnut for functions intended in the Playhouse complex. 

 

Now If you want a grocery store (and I am not one to say it is absolutely necessary actually) then I think, like someone else said, that a location central to both the CBD and OTR makes sense in the long term.  I would say then that same block at the NE corner of Court Street & Walnut Street (south of Central Parkway) or the lots at the SE corner of Court & Walnut.  Both sites would be on the streetcar route which is a must in my opinion.  And nearly all of the CBD (north of 3rd Street only), Lower OTR (south of Liberty), and Broadway Commons would be ½ mile as the crow flies from Court & Walnut.  Moving it in to Broadway Commons for instance would put it even further from areas like West 4th Street which, as it stands, is just over the ½ mile mark.  A location in St. Xavier Commons say bounded by 7th, 8th & Sycamore streets would put it closer to the Banks but further from OTR.  Most northerly locations however put a grocery store outside of ½ mile of the Banks no matter where it goes so a decision of does one include more of OTR or more of the Banks would need to be decided.  That said, if you can’t completely demolish the Tower Place Garage and redevelop that site as mixed use (where a movie theatre and/or bookstore could also go) then I thought a grocery could work on the first floor - short term, easy access parking at the surface lot at Elm & Fourth and it already has longer term parking in the garage above.  Paint the monstrosity; add banners, awnings, etc.       

 

On other fronts I still think downtown could use a McDonald’s (Seriously we can’t get even one after it was demolished for CAC?), Panera (Atlanta Bread is gone right?), another fast-casual weekend breakfast/lunch space (How about an urban Bob Evans?), and a bowling alley, a la Lucky Strikes (I mean if Louisville has one . . . Although a bowling alley owner I met claimed the smoking ban was hurting his business big time.)  I could go on but I won’t ‘cause I’ve rambled enough and these are really just ‘wants’ and not ‘needs’ . . .

 

Who cares what occupies the space?  Just build it.  I'm sick of the delays.  The site needs to be occupied with SOMETHING.  The vacant lot is a joke.  Build something NOW!

 

Build something or something of quality?

^Something, Anything.

 

The three Skyway bridges that lead to the parking lot look absolutely ridiculous.  With such a good location, one would think that something would be desirable at the site.  This space is one of the first things that suburbanite haters point to when they mock Cincinnati.. and it is one of the few things that they are right about.

 

It can be anything.  They could build a Shoney's with big neon lights and extend the skyways to meet above it.  It could be called "The crossing at Shoney's Corner" or "The Denny's at skyway crossing".  I don't care.  I exaggerate of course, but come on, this space has been empty for far too long.  At this point, any development would beat the parking lot.

 

Also,  I see very little point in arguing about what is going to fill a space that doesn't exist.  Why doesn't Eagle build something and worry about the marketing after the start of construction?  Why is it important to have a tenant planned for the space NOW?  It seems like Eagle throws out some new idea for the space a couple times each year to quell the public outrage.  Diversionary tactics, really.  We argue about whether or not we want the Playhouse to relocate here while the site sits dormant. :whip:

^Something, Anything ...

 

... With such a good location ...

Also,  I see very little point in arguing about what is going to fill a space that doesn't exist.  Why doesn't Eagle build something and worry about the marketing after the start of construction?  Why is it important to have a tenant planned for the space NOW?  It seems like Eagle throws out some new idea for the space a couple times each year to quell the public outrage.  Diversionary tactics, really.  We argue about whether or not we want the Playhouse to relocate here while the site sits dormant.

 

Probably the millions of dollars they stand to lose if it sits empty.

Also,  I see very little point in arguing about what is going to fill a space that doesn't exist. 

 

Perhaps you are on the wrong message board then, this is an urban board that caters to discussions about developments in Ohio.  People are free to discuss and debate vaporware developments if they so choose.  If you aren't interested, move on to the next thread.

I say put the most spectacular movie theater that has ever existed in this spot.

Or a bikini car wash would do. :-D

What would you want a movie theater for?  Haven't you heard?  The Rave in West Chester is the place to be!!!

 

After the movie, you can head over to Mesh and watch 60 year old divorces hit on 20-somethings all night!

 

:shoot: Union Centre

Does anyone know the exact dates that Eagle's rights to develop this property expire?  I thought it was sometime this month (August 2007).  Unless I've missed something, I would expect some type of teaser announcement from Eagle soon to support an extension.

I'm not sure if Milton Dahoney supports the idea of giving them any more extensions.  They (Eagle Realty) has had more than ample time to come up with a concrete plan and do something with that property.  After a while you've just got to say that enough is enough.

Does anyone know the exact dates that Eagle's rights to develop this property expire?  I thought it was sometime this month (August 2007).  Unless I've missed something, I would expect some type of teaser announcement from Eagle soon to support an extension.

 

The last I heard it was August 9, which is Thursday.  Nothing has come up in Council regarding an extension.

 

New Fifth and Race delay

BY JON NEWBERRY | [email protected]

 

The city of Cincinnati has given the development arm of Western & Southern Financial Group Inc. another 45 days in its bid to build a proposed high-rise condominium project at Fifth and Race streets downtown.  Eagle Realty Group LLC’s control of the key downtown corner – at an intersection shared with the Hilton Netherland Plaza, Macy’s and Saks Fifth Avenue, a block from Fountain Square – was to have expired today unless it could get the city’s agreement on a suitable development plan.

 

The deadline has now been pushed back to Sept. 23, said City Hall spokeswoman Meg Olberding.  “That’ll give us time to see if we can come to an agreement,” she said.  The city and Eagle have been trying to “hammer out” various issues related to a proposal by Eagle to build a two high-rise condo towers atop above-ground parking garages with street-level retail space along Fifth, Race and Sixth streets, Olberding said.

 

Read full article here:

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070809/BIZ01/308090037/1076

DANGIT!!!!!!!!!!  :x

On the bright side, at least the extensions are getting shorter.

Frankly, I am surprised. 45 days in a real estate deal like this is nothing. Everyone knew an extension was coming, I would have guessed it would have been at the very least 90 days. This excites me, especially with word that they are not talking with any other developers for the site. They probably figure both sides are too far down the road with the project to take a step back.

I'm counting down the days.

Are there any renderings? 

^Nothing definitive has been released.

Here's an old Rendering

 

 

 

 

I would really love for it to turn out with these kinds of architectural details, but as these things progress they gradually lose those special details that make the design great.  We'll see though...hopefully we just hear something definitive at this upcoming deadline.  I'm growing impatient with this project and Eagle Realty.

I'm growing impatient with this project and Eagle Realty.

 

You're just growing impatient now?  ;)

I'm "viciously optimistic" remember...

Theater plan gets boost

BY JACKIE DEMALINE | CINCINNATI ENQUIRER

September 21, 2007

 

The collaboration on a four-theater local performing arts center at Fifth and Race, first reported in March, is more solidly on the table.  Anchored by Playhouse in the Park and Children’s Theatre of Cincinnati with some participation by Cincinnati Ballet and Cincinnati Opera, the project has been quietly leaping hurdles over the summer.

 

The feasibility report from Theatre Projects Consultants completed in late summer affirms that a four-theater complex can fit a multi-use building on the site; the cost estimate for the project is due next week. Playhouse would have a 650-seat proscenium and 300-seat black box; a 1,500-seat theater would be home to Children’s Theatre with some availability for other companies. A 200-seat theater would be devoted to education.

 

Read full article here:

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070921/ENT/70921007/1025/LIFE

ok so i dont know how i feel about this, but just as long as this gets incorporated into a res. tower, then im cool with it.

I just don't understand what they will do with the old ones? It seems wasteful.

the current playhouse is on about the second highest point in mount adams.  I would imagine the land is owned by the park board, but a residential tower right there would have some incredible views.  the site is at 790ft above sea level, compared to about 550ft at fountain square.

For the love of all that is holy ... no more time extensions!

^ Motion granted.

Seems strange to me.  Are these theatres really going to be that big of a draw that it would warrant taking up possible retail space in order to build them?  I don't know.  I just don't know many people that really go to these theatres (except for some Playhouse in the Park fans).  Is no one else concerned that we could have some embarrassingly empty theatres that will have no effective reuse when they are abandoned?

^ I'm wondering what will happen to the Taft Theater.

Playhouse has a constant and regular crowd that attends those performances.  I personally think it is great to potentially have a collection of theatres in one district of sorts.  As for Taft...I think it should be improved for music performances and other special event type things.  It can be its own unique venue.

Don't get me started on the Taft Theatre.  It is embarrassing that they still haven't fixed their marquee. 

Playhouse is a major Tony-winning draw on its own. Taft is lame and Children's Theater would will draw for their season. The Ballet and Opera could make use of the space for smaller shows that don't fit at Music Hall. I'd rather have the energy of the theaters than some retail of which there is plenty of space around town once the CDB solidifies its customer base. I do think that the residential tower above would be sweet. Maybe with your condo fees you could get season tickets to the Playhouse.

I just parked here today ... $1-freakin-dollar for 2 hours. What a waste of space ...

NOTE: The 45 day extended for a proposal of this project has been missed, there has been no news, and the site is still a surface parking lot.

 

I expect to hear some non-committal fluff from Eagle in the near future.

So what's the latest with this then?  Is their going to be a grocery store downtown?  Would like to find out more because that is going to be a determing factor if we move downtown.

^No grocery yet, but you will be able to hop on a streetcar to Findlay market starting in EDIT (doh!!) 2007 2010.

 

So what's the latest with this then?  Is their going to be a grocery store downtown?  Would like to find out more because that is going to be a determing factor if we move downtown.

 

Go ahead and move downtown.  More and more people are moving into the city, so they'll have to build a grocery store eventually.  If the streetcar starts construction soon (as planned), this will happen sooner rather than later.  Worst case scenario, there are grocery stores just over the bridge in both Bellevue & Newport, which are very close by.  And if the streetcar doesn't happen, odds are you'll need a car anyway, so that really isn't so far to drive for milk, etc.

So what's the latest with this then?  Is their going to be a grocery store downtown?  Would like to find out more because that is going to be a determing factor if we move downtown.

 

If you live in the suburbs you have to drive to a grocery store.  if you live downtown you have to drive to a grocery store.  it doesn't make a difference.  when I lived in charleston sc, I lived about a six minute walk from the grocery but I would drive, why? groceries are heavy.

So what's the latest with this then?  Is their going to be a grocery store downtown?  Would like to find out more because that is going to be a determing factor if we move downtown.

 

The lack of a major grocery store really isn't a big deal.  There are several small grocery stores such as Cianciolo's on Main, Sunshine Fine Foods, and Silverglades on 8th.  Also, Findlay Market is nearby and has nearly everything I need.  Also, Avril-Bleh Butcher Shop on Court is excellent, and they are planning to expand.  Shadeau Breads is excellent. 

 

Also, you don't have to drive somewhere to buy milk.  Even the drug stores carry milk and some groceries.  The only time I drive to major grocery stores is when I need to stock up on canned goods, and that would be too heavy to carry if I walked.

You may eventually see a grocery store pop up somewhere in the neighborhood of Tower Place Mall along 4th Street.  Just a hunch.