I wonder what's next?  I am happy that the city didn't back down and stood their ground!  Good job!

I wonder what's next?  I am happy that the city didn't back down and stood their ground!  Good job!

 

I would imagine there is a lot of free tif money that could go to the streetcar

^---Possibly, but they may hold it for another developer/proposal.

Parking lot needs new life as theater

EDITORIAL | CINCINNATI BUSINESS COURIER

March 14, 2008

 

The city of Cincinnati, Eagle Realty Group, Fifth Third Bancorp and a coalition of arts groups need to work together to eliminate the embarrassing surface parking lot in the heart of the city at Fifth and Race streets. That's a lot of interests - and egos - to get moving in a direction that's good for the entire region, but we know the players involved and we know it's possible.

 

Sure, the two-acre Fifth and Race lot is convenient parking for many, and it has been since the office building there was demolished in 1999 to make way for a now-canceled plan for a Nordstrom department store.  But the best use would be a downtown arts venue where plays, ballets and operas would be staged in a cluster of four theaters, ranging from 250 seats to 1,500 seats, which could support up to 675 performances per year.

 

Read full article here:

http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2008/03/17/editorial1.html

^ I thought that Eagle lost the development rights to 5th and Race?  :?

They did.

I'd rather see a 35-40 story condo tower there. Build tall and with fewer amenities, this way younger people would be able to afford it. ;)

In this particular case you could do both quite easily.  Density is surely needed, and probably a glass/steel structure as to minimize costs and keep things affordable.

I am aware of some of the unfortunate ways the Aronoff is managed that keeps these folks from using it, but explain why we need four more theater spaces downtown. The Emery is a great space though obviously in total mothballs. CSF has their own space. A couple of the OTR theaters have their own space. Aronoff has three theaters. It also seems that one could intensify the sense of a theater district a little closer to the Aronoff. In the end, it also seems like a lot of prime real estate for folks who don't pay taxes (non-profits and all).

In this particular case you could do both quite easily.  Density is surely needed, and probably a glass/steel structure as to minimize costs and keep things affordable.

 

 

Well, if it were in my hands:

 

Put the Playhouse on top of Macy's.

 

Build the tower tall, keeping cost down. Fill the bottom with less expensive options for dining, blockbuster, and a grocery store, etc... Use what's left and build a much smaller lot for visitors (I know the aggravation of visitors when living downtown and the streets are starting to become harder to find a spot in that area which is good). Also, I'd like to see tons of trees and plants ... maybe a water feature.

Isn't there supposed to be a market put in on Fountain Square (inside the enclosed shortcut to 6th st?)

 

Yea a 30-40 residential tower would be good.  The views would be great.

So since the city revoked eagle's development rights to the lot is the city going to offer the same deal to another developer? I feel like if they gave that same deal to an out of town development firm that they would eat that up. I guess they might be waiting on the market to stabalize a little bit.

^ I agree.  Our city does, after all, attract fortune 500 companies.  Maybe we'll get that or something.  Bottom line I think any out of town company will see the great progress downtown is getting and want to build there immediately.  Eagle was too involved with QCS and kind of put the 5th and Race on the back burner.  Their list of priorities along with our city were clearly shown.  Not that its bad.  That whole area along fountain square and the business district has so much potential its scary.

^yup.  Couldn't agree more.

Isn't there supposed to be a market put in on Fountain Square (inside the enclosed shortcut to 6th st?)

 

If you notice on My Fountain Square website, references to "Probasco Market" in that passageway to 6th have been removed from the map.

Actually there are currently serious plans to bring a "farmer's market" to the square this summer.

I'm sure details will be forthcoming.

 

IMHO I would hate to see a fountain square farmers market detract from Findlay. I think there should be for focus on getting people up to OTR to get fresh produce rather than splitting the group between the market and fountain square.

A Farmer's Market is a terrible idea at Fountain Square.  Boilover you hit the nail on the head, it would take away from Findlay Market, and also, it would take one use of the streetcar away.  Why would people, who live in downtown, travel (by Streetcar) to Findlay Market, if there was one at Fountain Square?...

^

I completely agree with what you guys are saying i don't like this idea, but i also don't think it will be successful because they wont have any meats or fish, which is what i mostly go to findlay for.

I disagree. Downtown workers could pick up some fresh veggies during lunch for dinner that evening. Remember Fountain Square used to be a marketplace way back. It isn't really competition for Findlay Market.

^ But would it be a semi-permanent fixture, where workers could visit during lunch?  I think most of the farmer's markets that I've seen are set up for weekends only.

 

Also, the downtown population was bigger back then and shopping styles were different, so the dynamics may be different now than they were then.  However, I'm not sure that this would compete in a negative way with Findlay Market, and might even serve as an extension of the market for people who probably wouldn't go to the trouble to visit Findlay anyway.

I don't think it would compete with FM either.  It could be another success story out of the basin!!

I believe that a farmer's market could serve to be a compliment and really create some synergies (i like to dig into overused words) between the two.  Further it could create some pretty strong energy in the center.

I disagree. Downtown workers could pick up some fresh veggies during lunch for dinner that evening. Remember Fountain Square used to be a marketplace way back. It isn't really competition for Findlay Market.

 

I don't think a farmer's market on the square would hurt Findlay Market.  I also think a lot of the downtown workers would pick up their fresh produce during lunch as well.  If anyone would be hurt, it would probably be Cianciolo's on Main Street.

Man, you guys sure are teasing us that are waiting for a condo tower announcement for this location -with your market/FS talk! ;)

Well, as long as its a unique market like Findley, then we won't have to worry.  If and when OTR is completely reborn, people won't only want to go to OTR for the Findley Market.  Think about it...Fountain Square and OTR could potentially be two huge places to shop.  Spread the wealth my friend;)

How cool would it be to have an old fashioned height competition like the Chrysler/Empire state in the early 20th century with a new 5th/Race Tower and QCS.  I know, it's a pipe dream but all it takes is Dahoney finding a new company wanting to relocate a HQ's here.

 

Moving on at 5th & Race

BY KEITH T. REED | [email protected]

 

After waiting 10 years for a development of some sort to rise at Fifth and Race streets, the city of Cincinnati is looking for a new developer to build there.  In a Thursday memo to the mayor and city council, City Manager Milton Dohoney Jr. said he was “aggressively pursue alternatives” after officially terminating the city’s contract at the site with developer Eagle Realty Group.

 

In an interview this afternoon, Dohoney said he still envisions a “marquee” project there anchored by mid-priced housing that would attract young professionals.  "To me, it’s a non-starter if it doesn’t have that in there. We need to have a housing option that is attractive and attainable for the young professional demographic,” Dohoney said, though he added the development did not need to be strictly residential.

 

Read full article here:

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/AB/20080425/BIZ01/304250092/

Well 5th & Race will not be an office tower...there is no chance that will happen.  Now if a company comes a knockin' for a large tower...wanting a race as you mention then Fountain Place (above Macy's) will be the location for that.

 

5th & Race in my opinion should be roughly 30 or so stories tall and be mid-range condos or apartments that appeal to YPs.  What you do at street-level doesn't really matter as long as their is something.  It could be a movie theatre, performance art space, retail, etc.  Just make it pedestrian friendly and encourage activity at street-level (ala University Park in Clifton Heights).

Mallory will probably be in the history books as the mayor who turned cincinnati around [especially if he get re-elected] but I don't think so much would have been possible without Milton.  Every time I have seen him, I have been impressed

milton is the city's backbone

Mallory will probably be in the history books as the mayor who turned cincinnati around

 

Yep. Some people argue (to me) that these were projects that were in planning stages before he was ever in office, but regardless, they are getting done while he is in office ... Something that unfortunately didn't happen with previous mayors.

milton is the city's backbone

 

http://www.urbancincy.com/2008/04/accountability-comes-knockin.html

Mallory will probably be in the history books as the mayor who turned cincinnati around [especially if he get re-elected] but I don't think so much would have been possible without Milton.  Every time I have seen him, I have been impressed

 

Agreed, but that's a big "if."  He's got my vote, but we all know Roxanne will be in the mix, and a formidable opponent, to be sure.

I think he will hammer Qualls if she runs.  I think Bortz might be a more formidable opponent because he would appeal to the city's Republicans (what with the business background and such). 

At this point, I doubt he has much opposition. Everyone is setting themselves to replace him 2013 or so. . .

I'll be honest...it would be a VERY tough decision to make between Mallory and Bortz if that turned out to be the match up.

^ That would be tough, but I'd root for Mallory in that event, because he's had a great track record thus far and it's more likely that Bortz could run successfully after Mallory's second term than it is for Mallory to pull a Grover Cleveland and get a second term after Bortz.

 

I get the impression that Bortz wouldn't run against Mallory anyway.  The two seem to have similar visions for this city, and it's still early in Bortz's political career.  There'll be plenty of time for a mayoral run later, and Bortz can accomplish a lot on city council in the mean time to make a bigger name for himself.

^ Agreed, though I don't see Bortz wanting to run for Mayor.  The guy's a developer, not a politician.

 

But if they did oppose each other, I'd have to go with Bortz.

Oh, by the way, Fifth and Race.

^ Nah, just have a moderator change the title to Bortz v. Mallory and we'll start another one when the new plans for Fifth & Race are announced.   :-D

Under the two towers, I think we need a video rental store, and a big book store.  More will follow like small cafes or something.  But man do we need a book store and movie joint.

^ It's called NetFlix

or the public library, which is free

I wonder if a movie theater could be included as part a theater complex. Williamsburg, VA has a theater that shows movies on nights when there aren't performances. Downtown strikes me as a great place for that sort of facility.

Theater concept widens its stage

Idea: Sites on two blocks, elevated lobby

http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2008/07/07/story1.html

 

Story highlights:

• Performing arts complex would consist of 4 theatres spread over 2 city blocks.
  
• Plan would link both sites and leave room for other for-profit development on both parcels, such as condos overlooking Fountain Square, retail or office space.
  
• The largest of the four theaters would seat 1,500 and would be the home of the Children's Theatre of Cincinnati.
  
• A 650-seat theater would serve as the main stage for the Playhouse.
  
• The other two theatres would be a 300-seat "thrust theater," with a more intimate design, and a 200-seat "black box" space offering flexibility.
  
• The venues could generate 784 public performances a year.
  
• In order to do the other for-profit developments, on both blocks, a 1,000 car garage is most likely needed.
  

This site has taken a back seat lately with all the QCS and Banks news, this plan would rock however.  It would fill in yet another surface lot with a mix of uses that are pedestrian heavy, as well as put the space above Macy's to use.  It may also spur the backfilling of Macy's unused 3rd floor.

This site has taken a back seat lately with all the QCS and Banks news, this plan would rock however.  It would fill in yet another surface lot with a mix of uses that are pedestrian heavy, as well as put the space above Macy's to use.  It may also spur the backfilling of Macy's unused 3rd floor.

 

The third floor of Macy's is still in use, and they still have the house wares, kids clothing, etc.  They did decrease the amount of space, though, and are trying to lease that spot above Palomino.  I think Macy's made a huge mistake by decreasing that space, though.  Not only have they not been able to lease that space, but looking at that third floor from Fountain Square does make it look as if it's completely empty.  Maybe they would improve that Macy's (increase selection, bring back juniors and the bridal registry) if something were built at 5th and Race.

I'm torn over this plan.  I think the concept is great and agree that it will do alot to spur foot traffic in that vicinity.  But, I recall Jane Jacobs' belief that a city's great institutions should be dispursed, not concentrated in one area.  I guess that philosophy presupposes that the institutions are guaranteed draws with perpetual funding, which might not be the case in this instance.  It just seems to me that we're robbing several areas to support one. 

 

Additionally, I'm not hot on the idea of building 1,000 extra parking spaces unless they're dedicated for future condo residents.  If this megaplex is truly a destination then take full advantage by allowing people to park elsewhere supporting more street traffic.  If people are able to park in this building for shows, they'll never step outside the two block radius. 

I'm not a huge theater goer, so please correct me if I may be way off.  One thing that concerns me about this proposal is that I am under the impression this could take events/shows away from Aronoff and Music hall.  Both are true Cincy treasures that need to be preserved and I am getting the feeling that this is being done just to fill the space.  I remember reading Playhouse wanted to move downtown or the Banks, which originally I was OK with.  I just fear we would be abandoning Music Hall more so than Aronoff since they can still pack a house. 

 

Is this the same thing?

If so, Do they actually NEED 4 theaters?

I still think they should keep with the condo tower ideas