Whole Foods is not going to be at 5th and Race. That is not speculation. That is a fact.

 

I'm trying to save everyone some time and needless speculation.

 

Understand OTR, my post was purely based on secondhand information. Its source though is associated to city officials. My post clarified it was a "rumor".

 

You on the other hand claim to have the facts. Please then, provide full documentation backing up your claim.

 

Otherwise, like the rest of us, you are only speculating...

 

^ that's a good point.

Sorry if my reply came off as brash. That was not my intent.

Whole Foods is not happening though and that is not speculation.

You'll just have to take my word for it.

Gonna be honest, everyone here says loosely where they've heard their info from. No one gets specific, but they say something. "a friend at 3cdc" "a friend at the city" "a friend at Dunnhumby" but lately you've been posting lots of "insider info" and going, I can't tell you anything it's super top secret just trust me. It's fine, just comes across a little cocky. A 3CDC-owned holding company bought the church at 12th & elm. No surprise, but I'm pretty sure you posted "I can't tell you any details but someone is buying it". 3CDC buys properties constantly and was rumored to be buying that building anyway. It didn't need to be some big thing that was super top secret. If 3CDC has said to you they aren't going to put in a Whole Foods great. If you're that certain they are the only people who could have told you that. :) so we know who did it anyway.

 

As a friend!

 

 

And to get back on topic... Last thing I've heard about Dunnhumby's site (from a friend at 3cdc) is a late november start of excavation.  Basically it's all just down to finalizing design work. I've been told they are taking this VERY seriously and want it to be a high quality product.

We need more European companies to set up shop in the city. They have a longer view and care about more than immediate fiscal concerns.

I only came to this thread because someone directed me to it

and said it was "pretty entertaining" and "completely not true."

 

Sorry if I sound brash. That is not my intent.

I only came to this thread because someone directed me to it

and said it was "pretty entertaining" and "completely not true."

 

Sorry if I sound brash. That is not my intent.

 

Do you have a personal reason for so strongly saying Whole Foods won't be coming downtown? Do you work for Kroger? Would you like to see a Whole Foods downtown?

I merely said Whole Foods isn't happening at 5th and Race.

It wasn't personal to anyone in this thread or any particular

grocery chain.  I do not work for Kroger. I skim comments in

these threads and didn't expect anyone to take offense by

me sharing information that I know to be true. I didn't mean

to make it sound like "Any idiot knows Whole Foods would

never go in at 5th and Race"...because I don't know or even

care about the economics of urban groceries.

Oh wouldn't it be hilarious if there was a press release issued in the next few months announcing Whole Foods as the primary tenant at 5th and Race.  I suppose it is silly to ask someone to provide full documentation for their sources on a message board (that you barely care about), but it's also silly to speak from a place of supposed authority without backing it up.  If you do know so much about this project, can you give any insights into what tenants will be represented in the retail component, or did your omniscient source not provide those details?

This is all I all know, as stated above:

I only came to this thread because someone directed me to it

and said it was "pretty entertaining" and "completely not true."

 

I never indicated that I knew "so much about this project" other

than WH won't be in it. I'm sure several people reading and perhaps

even posting in this thread know more about 5th/Race than me.

 

Maybe I killed all the fun by ending the speculation about WH  :|

Hopefully the renderings will be out soon...

^ Whomever your source is must be 1000x more entertained now that they see the sh!tstorm they have indirectly caused.

All the unfounded speculation about Apple's new products on MacRumors.com has nothing on this thread.

Actually, I heard it was going to be an Aldi going in at 5th and Race

 

OTR, obviously you're saying someone at 3CDC told you they aren't considering Whole  Foods. You can admit it's ok :)

I heard through the grapevine, a Piggly Wiggly.  :)

I heard through the grapevine, a Piggly Wiggly.  :)

 

Family Dollar

Golden Gallon.

Golden Gallon.

 

I first misread this as Golden Lion. That would be pretty sweet. Super dive, but I miss it.

I think a Bonanza would be awesome.

How about a gas station/convenience store with a rural appalachan,  family owned name.  May I suggest "Auntie Pam's Pump N' Munch"

^Or simply "Sheetz"

Why is 3CDC taking so long for the rendering. Driving me crazy

On my phone, sorry if brief. Steve leeper spoke at Masonic center this morning. Residential component and grocery aren't happening here. Construction starting early 2013. Seems the building will be midrise and much wider than it is tall.

The loss of the residential component is a huge disappointment.

Wow, what a foreseeable let down.

Just like Dunnhumby wanted all along.

Man, that's some pretty terrible news. What a wasted opportunity.

Will it even be taller than the hotels that'll be adjacent to it?  I'm thinking no. 

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/print-edition/2012/06/15/dunnhumbyusas-fifth-and-race-project.html?page=all

 

 

This article is old, but it shows how dedicated the City was to making this a success with the residential component.  For the dynamic vision that was agreed upon to disintegrate into a shoebox-sized blend-in is disdainful.

If this information is accurate, then something about this block is just not attractive to developers for residential.

 

To be honest, if I were a developer I'd probably be much more excited about riverfront, OTR and east downtown opportunities.

If this information is accurate, then something about this block is just not attractive to developers for residential.

 

To be honest, if I were a developer I'd probably be much more excited about riverfront, OTR and east downtown opportunities.

 

A block away at 4th and race “Reserve” just opened and is almost entirely sold out.  I could see the condo market being a different story, but rentals seem to fly off the shelves anywhere downtown.  Maybe a new building can't quite make rentals profitable?

I keep hearing how difficult it is for developers to get financing for rental apartment buildings but I am honestly surprised this fell through.

It is also quite possible Dunnhumby either did not want residential on their project or didn’t like how 3CDC proposed to integrate  the residential into their building.

That sucks. I was ready for a highrise to go there. SMH

Well let's remember that just because a building isn't tall doesn't mean that it can't be of some importance. Hopefully, givin the significance of the site, Dunhumby will step up and really put some emphasis on the design of the structure. Guess we'll have to wait and see.

Leeper did have some very good things to say about the pending design of the building, but you never really know whether that's a genuine assessment or puffery. 3CDC has a good track record IMO, so I'm hopeful.

 

Other things Leeper said that seemed new (sorry to only be posting this now, and also sorry it's not completely on topic for this thread): Fountain Square will get a number of additional improvements, including a better LED screen, in the near future. Many of the visual improvements will be near Via Vite. He also said that 3CDC has looked/is looking at opportunities to convert office space downtown into residential, although he was pretty vague about that (it seemed like the Bartlett Building isn't going to be a 3CDC project, if anything happens with that).

 

He suggested that the area surrounding Findlay Market would be a "natural extension" of what 3CDC is doing now, although he seemed kind of non-commital about specific plans for the area.

 

All in all it was a good talk, and free to boot. Plus free breakfast. All you had to do was RSVP. I was kind of surprised it wasn't totally packed with UrbanOhio types.

 

Sorry for not posting all of these tidbits in their respective threads--I work too many hours.  :-D

It is also quite possible Dunnhumby either did not want residential on their project or didn’t like how 3CDC proposed to integrate  the residential into their building.

 

This is exactly what my source has told me.  Dunnhumby was "nervous" and "worried" about having a residential component.  Also, they have expanded to 300,000 square feet, up from the original 250,000. Still, very disappointed.

 

Above ground component is 1 floor of retail. 3 floors of parking, 5 floors of office.  9 story tall building (but the stories should be quite large, so it will seem closer to 11-12 stories.

 

So disappointing.

It is also quite possible Dunnhumby either did not want residential on their project or didn’t like how 3CDC proposed to integrate  the residential into their building.

 

This is exactly what my source has told me.  Dunnhumby was "nervous" and "worried" about having a residential component.  Also, they have expanded to 300,000 square feet, up from the original 250,000. Still, very disappointed.

 

Above ground component is 1 floor of retail. 3 floors of parking, 5 floors of office.  9 story tall building (but the stories should be quite large, so it will seem closer to 11-12 stories.

 

So disappointing.

 

It doesn't surprise me. I am sure they never envision a residential component and 3CDC tried to push it on them. I am disappointed also  but I do not blame them if i was building my multi-million dollar brand new HQ's I'm not sure I would want to be attached to some apartments.

Found this semi-interesting: The Enquirer still thinks the residential componet is on.

 

"The group is already working with the city on the dunnhumbyUSA headquarters a block away at Fifth and Race, also slated to include 200 apartments and 40,000 square feet of retail."

 

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20121115/BIZ/311150041/Tower-Place-What-s-next-

 

 

 

 

They're wrong. I Talked to a friend close to the project last night. Dunnhumby said no to apartments.

I dislike how all of these rumors and "friends of friends" comments. It's fine to a point - but like the blow-up a few pages back, it's sometimes better to wait for confirmation than to be the first to post something - whether it's true or not.

I say let the rumors fly. Spice of life.

I believe the rumors.  They make sense.  I am really hoping that 3CDC takes the residential tower idea to a different location in the CBD within the next year.  There are plenty of surface lots.

I believe the rumors.  They make sense.  I am really hoping that 3CDC takes the residential tower idea to a different location in the CBD within the next year.  There are plenty of surface lots.

 

I do not see that happening, as 3CDC was piggy-backing off the the Dunnhumby infrastructure that was already required making the residential portion cheaper and more attractive to developers

I say let the rumors fly. Spice of life.

 

This thread needs an enema.

 

 

He suggested that the area surrounding Findlay Market would be a "natural extension" of what 3CDC is doing now, although he seemed kind of non-commital about specific plans for the area.

 

I think that this is the best knews that we can hope for. There needs to be a catalyst for development north of Liberty, and the market can do exactly that. Great to hear they have plans to expand up there.

 

Sorry to derail from topic...

 

Was there any word on dates when renderings would appear(for 5th and Race)?

They probably just didn't want to build it because they have no familiarity with residential development and didn't want to be involved in any way, shape, or form with the leasing and management that comes with residential units. It is a whole different set of headaches.

 

Dunnhumby never would have been involved in those aspects of the residential portion of the project. Almost every large-scale development involves an owner's representative with a strong background in development (Jones Lang LaSalle and Trammell Crow are two such companies I've worked with in the past) that would've been hired by Dunnhumby and/or 3CDC to manage the day-to-day business of building the project, and one of the parties would have likely turned the residential portion over to a professional property management company. It's not as if residents were ever going to be writing their rent checks directly to Dunnhumby and calling them to unclog their toilets.

Apartments will be across the street:

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2012/11/26/developers-look-to-keep-macys-store.html

New Details of the site:

 

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2012/11/26/dunnhumbyusa-needs-more-room.html

Will there no longer be street level retail in the building?

Converting the offices at 580 will be vastly cheaper than constructing a brand-new building. That said, a new tower at Fountain Square West above Macy's will cost less than if it were a brand-new building on a vacant site, as the excavation and foundation work (huge $$$) are already complete. I'd speculate that these two projects are a big reason Dunnhumby decided not to include a residential component at 5th and Race.

 

New information states there was not "enough" room at the Dunnhumby site anymore. As they needed more space.