December 13, 200618 yr ^ He was given the decision of white or yellow paint for the parking lines :-)
January 27, 200718 yr After the initial news rush, this has quieted down. Anybody heard anything/seen any renderings?
January 27, 200718 yr ^I sent emails out to a few key people/companies regarding this project...and none decided to respond to my inquiries :|
January 27, 200718 yr Typical Western Southern propaganda and typical Enquirer Journalism with lack of follow up. I am still waiting for the follow up to the Beer Hall of Fame.
January 28, 200718 yr ^I thought eagle was doing this project (but for all I know eagle may be a subpart of western southern)
March 2, 200718 yr Western-Southern updates 5th and Race DAN MONK | [email protected] March 2, 2007 A book store, a sushi bar and a bigger parking garage could be part of the mix at Fifth and Race streets, where a development subsidiary of the Western & Southern Financial Group has been working on a new condo tower since last summer. Those details came directly from Western-Southern CEO John Barrett, who described the project to a crowd of 800 at the annual "Good Scout Award" luncheon in downtown Cincinnati Feb. 28. Barrett later referred questions about his speech to Mario San Marco, president of Eagle Realty Group. San Marco said no retail leases have been signed but Eagle is interested in building a garage of up to 1,100 spaces. Previously, a garage of 700 to 900 was planned. Read full article here: http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2007/03/05/tidbits1.html
March 2, 200718 yr We need to hit a home run on this project. I can't think of 2 bigger needs in downtown than suchi and a bookstore...being serious!
March 2, 200718 yr yeah this sounds great but i hate how "hush hush" everything has to be. i hope something more concrete comes about soon.
March 2, 200718 yr yeah this sounds great but i hate how "hush hush" everything has to be. i hope something more concrete comes about soon. I hear you, but I think this is really going to become a reality for a couple of different reasons.
March 3, 200718 yr yeah this sounds great but i hate how "hush hush" everything has to be. i hope something more concrete comes about soon. I hear you, but I think this is really going to become a reality for a couple of different reasons. because the development rights expire, and this is one of the most valuable developments in the city.
March 3, 200718 yr In the latest issue of Cincinnati Entreprenuer ( I believe that is what the magazine is called) under the blurb on John Barrett (W&S CEO) there was something along the lines of "watch this summer for a major downtown development announcement from W&S/Eagle". It may be this project, QCSII, or something else.
March 14, 200718 yr I know someone who works at W&S and they said that they were given a presentation yesterday about the 5th and Race project. It was a slideshow presentation that included 3 alternative designs for the tower. So, I know that W&S has some renderings floating around the office...time to kick it into full gear! If anyone else has some connections let 'em rip and try to get a hold of those renderings!
March 14, 200718 yr ^ obviously we all want to see what this thing could look like but there is a reason why we havent seen any renderings yet. companies like western and southern are so sensitive to how a building will reflect on their image. if there are three options, im sure they run the range of really conservative to ultra conservative (quite a range i know!) and they wont release ANYTHING until they are absolutely certain its what they want to build. my point is, even if someone finds something, unless they want to contribute to the leaking of sensitive information which could negatively effect the outcome of the project, keep it out of here. im sure there are any number of people on this forum who bite their tongues daily because of insider info they have. just be patient. on another note...release the damn images already! this thing had better be slick. Rando you need to pester your acquaintance for at least an impression of what they were like.
March 14, 200718 yr ^Well based on the several meetings that Eagle has held...I would have to think that they aren't holding this information to close. The information is out there, but the general public wants a release...not a leak (which I'm sure is happening). As for the person who saw the presentation he said that the bldgs look "pretty big"...with a surprised conotation. I replied with "something around 22 stories" and he agreed that they looked about that height. He didn't really comment on the design...nor did I ask. I know what people's opinions are about towers normally..."pretty cool" or "ugly" or "too big". Nothing substantial usually, I would rather hear from someone knowledgeable on the topic (architect, planner, engineer, etc). I just don't want to post something like my friend says it looks "cool" that really doesn't do anything for anyone.
March 14, 200718 yr ^ I understand. Sometimes people would have an idea on whether its pushing the edge or not...i was hoping your friend would. I guess we'll all just have to wait and see.
March 14, 200718 yr my guess is that its going to look something like the north bank condo tower in cbus. http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=3335.30 But maybe 5-7 stories bigger.
March 14, 200718 yr I guess it really doesn't matter to me...as long as it isn't hideous! I just want a nice infill project that will add something to that part of downtown (other than parking revenues).
March 15, 200718 yr ^ obviously we all want to see what this thing could look like but there is a reason why we havent seen any renderings yet. companies like western and southern are so sensitive to how a building will reflect on their image. if there are three options, im sure they run the range of really conservative to ultra conservative (quite a range i know!) and they wont release ANYTHING until they are absolutely certain its what they want to build. my point is, even if someone finds something, unless they want to contribute to the leaking of sensitive information which could negatively effect the outcome of the project, keep it out of here. im sure there are any number of people on this forum who bite their tongues daily because of insider info they have. just be patient. Actually, over the years there were several renditions of what QCS was going to look like (from the late 80's until construction), all were made public.
March 15, 200718 yr that is true, but i am curious to know if you can point me to one of these renderings that was any more than a napkin sketch. there is a difference between releasing a concept rendering and a "this is exactly what our building will look like" rendering. as an insider on previously abandoned w&s projects i know first hand how sensitive they are about this type of thing. everytime this company uses the imagery of one of these abandoned projects for portfolio submissions that accompany new project proposals, they have to wipe them clean of anything that would associate who, what, where, why, and when. thats not limited to w&s either. on an unrelated subject, ive heard they have the queen city square physical model in their office. would be pretty cool to see that.
March 15, 200718 yr I rembember seeing them in the paper and I also worked for the City's Economic Development Dept. back in the late 80's, I wish I would have kept a copy of some of the renderings.
March 15, 200718 yr I know that I've seen 2 or 3 different renditions of QCS. Two brick variations and then the recent version that we've seen. my point is, even if someone finds something, unless they want to contribute to the leaking of sensitive information which could negatively effect the outcome of the project, keep it out of here. im sure there are any number of people on this forum who bite their tongues daily because of insider info they have. just be patient. Just to touch on this point. I understand that there are projects and information that people cannot distribute out into the public for various reasons. But I often times send out emails asking different firms whether they have any information that they can share with me. If they choose to give me some material, I consider it fair game unless they specify otherwise. I also don't see how a potential project design getting out in the public would hurt the outcome of any project. It should not hurt the marketability, and it would probably increase interest in the project and actually help out the project. Right now we keep hearing "blah, blah, blah, blah, blah" from Eagle and W&S. If they can share this with virtually everyone inside their family of companies, then why in the hell can't they give the general public just a little something. I don't know why the process has to be soooo secretive and hush hush...also I presume since you are "an insider" that you have seen the renderings. Do they look good, will we be pleased??
March 15, 200718 yr ^ i am not an insider with this project anymore...i truly wish that i was. but i am familiar with the early Nordstrom 5th and Race designs. however since then they have completely retooled the development team including the architect (as we all know from previous news). the point i was trying to make about "leaks" was not so much to do with the release of approved documentation. any image, sketch, rendering, that is released to the public has been approved by those involved as not to give a somewhat accurate depiction of what they hope the finished product will look like. if w&s was showing three different schemes, obviously they have not made a decision. to somehow get a hold of one of the "wrong" schemes and publish it could very well negatively impact the project perhaps because of broken trust between development team members etc. i was talking to a friend of mine that works at FRCH and he was telling me that when the enquirer wrote the article about their las Vegas project, the reporter swiped an unapproved image of the project and published it obviously without permission. that did not go over well. my point to all of this is w&s will release this information when they feel it is appropriate and not before. if they feel this is a significant project (which we all believe is the case) then they probably want an unavailing that is suitable.
March 15, 200718 yr I am just hoping that they quit toying around with us about this site and actually do something!!! They keep making all of these announcements and having presentations. But they don't give us anything of substance. It worries me that this is the kind of course that they are taking...it allows for them to back out the plan without significant bad PR.
March 28, 200718 yr New theater complex downtown? Cincinnati’s major performing arts are dreaming big – a four-theater complex at Fifth and Race anchored by a Playhouse no longer in the Park and Cincinnati Children’s Theatre. Playhouse management will go to its board Thursday for a vote of approval to move forward on a study that could report as early as June on the physical and fiscal feasibility of a new downtown arts center. http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070328/ENT07/70328004
March 28, 200718 yr Three things -- there are already two theaters in the Aronoff Center that don't get very much use, the Emery Theater which has been mothballed since around 1992, and SPCA is planning yet another new theater or two at their new location. If the Playhouse wants a new theater downtown then fine, but I don't see how the other new theaters wouldn't complete with existing ones. Otherwise it's a pretty interesting turn of events.
March 28, 200718 yr Interesting. Although I still think that is a good site for a downtown movie theatre. A quick walk/stroll to the Square with many restaurants (new and old) nearby. I think I'd prefer a Performing Arts Center if not in the Banks then say at the block bounded by Central Parkway, Walnut, and Court. Maybe a little removed from Fountain Square but it would be closer to an emerging arts area of Lower Over-the-Rhine with Music Hall, Ensemble, Know Theatre, the new SCPA . . . and add that the Aronoff would be four blocks away further down Walnut . . . and a mothballed Emery Theatre is basically across the street less than a block away (move Playhouse to their own facility and let's get the Emery renovated for use by the others!) . . and then a trolley potentially links them all.
March 28, 200718 yr interesting. I think this would be a good idea, you weaken mt. adams, but strengthen downtown and the arts presence there. What do you then do with the area that had playhouse in Mt. Adams?
March 28, 200718 yr I wouldn't mind seeing Playhouse with a downtown address. But I do think that 5th and Race NEEDS to include a movie theatre! So if 5th and Race at least includes a movie theatre (preferably stadium seat) then I don't care what else goes in....it will all be icing on the cake from there. Its great that we are even having these discussions though...I am thrilled that there is so much interest in downtown.
March 29, 200718 yr ^Duh...but the project that has been discussed includes retail and/or entertainment uses on the bottom floors of the structure. What I was saying is that it is my preferred tenant/use of the bottom floors of the building.
March 29, 200718 yr Fifth and Race may house new theater complex Cincinnati Playhouse in the Park is exploring the development of a four-theater complex at Fifth and Race streets downtown that would relocate the Playhouse from Eden Park and create the first permanent home for the Children's Theatre of Cincinnati. Playhouse Board Chairman Jack Rouse said he will ask the full board to authorize a feasibility study for the initiative at an 11:30 a.m. board meeting Thursday. The study will examine whether the two-acre development site a block west of Fountain Square can accommodate the new facility. Read full article here: http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2007/03/26/daily41.html
March 29, 200718 yr As recently as Feb. 28, Eagle Realty was planning a condominium tower of up to 22 stories at the Fifth and Race site. ... But Rouse thinks the Fifth Street location is ideal for the theater complex because of its proximity to Cincinnati's newly expanded convention center and Fountain Square ... "The square is going to be a remarkable amenity for this city," Rouse said. "The Playhouse dumps 700 people a night into somewhere. That's a lot of people who could dine before and drink after." Well, what the hell do you think a condo tower would do?!?
March 29, 200718 yr New twist at 5th and Race BY JON NEWBERRY | [email protected] Western & Southern Financial Group Inc. has raised the stakes in its bid to develop a key downtown Cincinnati site at Fifth and Race streets, a site that’s also being pursued by Playhouse in the Park as a potential location for a new theater complex. The insurance company’s Eagle Realty Group LLC subsidiary told city officials Wednesday that it now wants to build about 500 condominiums and 1,200-to-1,400 parking spaces in a two-phase project at a cost of more than $100 million. It would also include neighborhood-oriented retail space along Fifth, Race and Sixth streets. Depending on how quickly the remaining financing, approvals and plans can be put in place, it could begin construction by the end of the year or in early 2008, Tom Stapleton, Eagle’s senior vice president for real estate investment management, said today. The first phase of the twin-tower project would take about two years, he said. Read full article here: http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070921/ENT/70921007/1025/LIFE
March 30, 200718 yr FANTASTIC....This proposal sounds great! This particular aspect is the one thing that makes me most happy: Although the remaining financing is not yet in place, Stapleton said lining up the financing will not require it to pre-sell any condos. The condo prices are expected to range from roughly $150,000 at the bottom end to something less than $400,000 at the top, targeting an average price in the mid-$200,000s, Stapleton said. These units will be affordable...and on top of that, Eagle does not have to pre-sell any units in order to get the thing off the drawing board! :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
March 30, 200718 yr FANTASTIC....This proposal sounds great! This particular aspect is the one thing that makes me most happy: Although the remaining financing is not yet in place, Stapleton said lining up the financing will not require it to pre-sell any condos. The condo prices are expected to range from roughly $150,000 at the bottom end to something less than $400,000 at the top, targeting an average price in the mid-$200,000s, Stapleton said. These units will be affordable...and on top of that, Eagle does not have to pre-sell any units in order to get the thing off the drawing board! :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: ^awesome news...I would love to see cranes at the end of the year or in early '08
March 30, 200718 yr Here is a rendering that was with the Enquirer article above. http://cmsimg.enquirer.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Dato=20070330&Kategori=NEWS01&Lopenr=703300419&Ref=AR&Q=80&MaxW=450&MaxH=475&Site=AB&Q=80&Border=0&Title=0 Looks OK, but I don't see how it jibes with building it in two phases, perhaps this is the original one-phase, 300 unit rendering.
March 30, 200718 yr ^Looks like that first phase would only occupy the southern half of the block. I wonder if the old property line where the old city garage was still affects the current situation or if it is all legally one piece of property now.
March 30, 200718 yr The rendering leaves much to be desired, althought the form of the building looks pretty decent at this point.
March 30, 200718 yr Sounds like the first phase is 21 stories and the second is 18 stories. I'm going by the 14 units per floor specs.
March 31, 200718 yr Hurdles remain for Fifth and Race plans BY DAN MONK | March 30, 2007 Eagle Realty Group has expanded the scope of a planned condominium project at Fifth and Race streets downtown, but city officials have identified several new deficiencies in Eagle's latest proposal for the two-acre site one block west of Fountain Square. The new activity comes as Eagle, a development subsidiary of Western & Southern Financial Group, approaches an Aug. 9 deadline to start a new project or lose its long-held development rights on the site. Read full article here: http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2007/03/26/daily65.html
April 2, 200718 yr hopefully the city would want to get this thing moving soon. seems like there is a huge communication disconnect with the city as for as some of the newer developments are concerned.
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