I am going to take a wild guess and say after Oktoberfest.

 

another thing that may be holding up the announcement is 3CDC wants to secure the residential developer before they unveil the plans. as they don't want to unveil unfinished plans.

Sounds reasonable to me.

Off topic but phase 2 of the banks

Moderator Note

 

Yes, it's off-topic. Please take it to the appropriate thread. Also, it would help if you actually credit a source for the rendering.

Emstructural.com/the banks phase 2

"Throughout the month of August, 3CDC and dunnhumbyUSA

continued to revise the scope of the project’s schematic design.

Towards the end of the month, both parties came to a consensus

on major scope revision decisions and budget alignment.

Negotiations with a residential developer to add 200+ rental

apartments to the project remain ongoing."

 

--- from 3cdc August monthly report

Yes, very good news!

Yes, very good news!

 

Why good news? They haven't secured the residential component, and the change in scope could be down.

Yes, very good news!

 

Why good news? They haven't secured the residential component, and the change in scope could be down.

 

+1

Yeah, totally read that wrong. Just glad to see the residential component is still involved. I'll just go back to lurking....

Blows me away that the residential component isn't a bunny.  I thought demand was brisk?

Blows me away that the residential component isn't a bunny.  I thought demand was brisk?

 

High density residential in the CBD and OTR requires a ridiculous amount of creative financing and hand outs.  It takes awhile to get it all put together.

Same old Cincinnati

This is disappointing. Yet another underwhelming project for downtown. It'll fit in well with its neighbor to the east though - the Macy's building was originally supposed to support a massive skyscraper and instead it's a three-story mall store in the heart of the city.

^How can you say that without viewing a rendering or having any information about what the final project will be?  It's all an unknown at this point.  Dunhumby originally had a pretty narrow scope of the type of building they wanted.  Maybe the change in scope is actually to build a larger building so that other tenants can also move in, instead of creating space just suited for the needs of Dunhumby.

LOL, I love how some vague non-info comes out and it is seen as both very positive and very negative by different people.

^ Especially when that info is over a month old. A lot of progress could have been, and probably was made during September. Construction is supposed to start this month. Looking forward to the renderings!

Did you hear the great comments about the 'NEW" and active Cincinnati made by the network announcers at one of the Reds' ballgames in San Francisco?

http://www.3cdc.org/images/editor/September.pdf

 

No new news in last months report...

I guess it's safe to say construction won't be getting under way this month like it was supposed to...

 

:-(

It's possible they may begin excavation work while the design is being finalized.

Not usually one to fuel the rumor mill, but my source is credible. City/3CDC said to be finalizing deal with Whole Foods.

Would love to compare/contrast the Jungle Jim's East/DT Whole Foods job fairs.

Interesting. I haven't heard any rumors to that effect.  It would be great if it's true. I've heard the city is pitching the ugly Pogue's garage for a grocery on the first floor. I hope you're right and I'm wrong though!

Not usually one to fuel the rumor mill, but my source is credible. City/3CDC said to be finalizing deal with Whole Foods.

 

Any word on the residential portion? Is the deal finalize? One taller building or 2 smaller buildings?

If this is true (taking it with a grain of salt as I do all things urban-grocery in this city), it's wonderful news. It also makes much more business-sense than a Kroger for example:

 

a) WF tends to be far more urban-friendly than other grocerers and has shown they are willing to do urban in second tier markets (Milwaukee and Sarasota come to mind)

b) much of WF's target demographic already live/work in DT or OTR

c) There is population growth and significant wealth in NKY and areas like Mt. Adams and Clifton.

d) The Rookwood store is a smaller than their new stores and they do not have room on that site to expand

I wonder what Kroger would think of a Whole Foods being just blocks from their corporate headquarters. Maybe they would respond with an entirely fresh concept at their OTR location in a couple of years? City Kroger?

I have long thought that Cincinnati was underserved by Whole Foods and Trader Joes.  Personally, I would rather see a TJ at 5th and Race than WF, but I would obviously love to see either.  A WF downtown makes sense, as I think it will pull from a different market than Rookwood (Hyde Park, Mt. Lookout, even Anderson) and certainly a different market than the Mason/Deerfield store.  A downtown store could tap into the OTR, Downtown, Mt. Adams, NKY crowd, but also has the potential to capture workers who might have more limited grocery options where they live.  I do think the lower cost option of Trader Joes would be able to capture a larger customer base, though.

I would tell kroger to F Off. ...too little too late. They have had multiple opportunties to invest in CBD and have declined. 

Any word on the residential portion? Is the deal finalize? One taller building or 2 smaller buildings?

 

Conversation was strictly on groceries. Kroger was mentioned when the original news of this development broke. Evidently they wanted too much incentives and the city declined.

 

If this is true (taking it with a grain of salt as I do all things urban-grocery in this city), it's wonderful news.

 

Ditto. While I trust the parties involved, who knows how many cocktails they had.  :lol:  I'll believe when I see an official announcement.

I imagine WF can make urban stores work in second-tier locations because they pull a totally seperate kind of customer than a Kroger/bigg's and also have much higher margins than Kroger (which are literally razor thin) I bet their prepared food and beauty/health/home goods absolutely rakes it in.

I think that a Whole Foods at Central Parkway and Walnut would be ultimate slap in the face to Kroger, but I will take any good urban grocery store I can get. Hopefully this is true and comes to fruition. This will definitely improve residential property values in DT/OTR and possibly encourage more conversion of old office space to residential apartments/condos.

Whole Foods has started construction of their first store in Detroit, in Midtown. They received a boatload of incentives for this. $4.2 million incentive package in state and local funds. But in a lot of the hoohaw surrounding the groundbreaking, they made a lot of talk about moving into urban cores.

For those who are unaware or just dim (ME!), how does this signing progress the construction?  Will plans need to be reconfigured for WF, or were things dependant upon a large business?

I imagine WF can make urban stores work in second-tier locations because they pull a totally seperate kind of customer than a Kroger/bigg's and also have much higher margins than Kroger (which are literally razor thin) I bet their prepared food and beauty/health/home goods absolutely rakes it in.

 

Got it in one.  Kroger's business model is really dependent upon doing large amounts of business since the gross margin from normal products is super thin.  Whole Foods also has the luxury of having a clearly defined customer in mind, whereas  Kroger wants to be able to please everybody.  Because of these factors, Kroger wants a lot more square footage than makes sense in urban locations. 

 

Also, as I've mentioned before, the leadership of the company is heavily suburbanite.  I get the impression that we'll be testing new models of stores soon, though, and I really hope that leadership is waking up to some of the demographic trends and deciding to get serious about exploring urban models.

 

I was actually in dunnhumby's HQ today and I was reminded again how design-focused they are as a company. I'm expecting really neat things from this building!

Whole Foods has started construction of their first store in Detroit, in Midtown. They received a boatload of incentives for this. $4.2 million incentive package in state and local funds. But in a lot of the hoohaw surrounding the groundbreaking, they made a lot of talk about moving into urban cores.

Detroit's 4.2 million in incentives resulted in a 20,000 square foot store.

 

From what I've read, the 38,000 sq ft store under construction in downtown Minneapolis did not receive any incentives from the city. Whole Foods will be the ground-floor retail anchor of 222 Hennepin, a $70M, 580,000 sq ft complex with 286 luxury apartments. Not sure how many parking spaces in total it'll have, but 145 spaces will be reserved for grocer.

My city contact said a grocery store at 5th and Race is "highly unlikely"

I wonder what Kroger would think of a Whole Foods being just blocks from their corporate headquarters. Maybe they would respond with an entirely fresh concept at their OTR location in a couple of years? City Kroger?

 

i doubt they would care.  a WF close to their headquarters doesn't present any significant threat.  There is a bigg's (or is it Remke now?) right next door to their #1 store....Macy's has a Saks right next to their headquarters too.  This happens everywhere.

 

I would tell kroger to F Off. ...too little too late. They have had multiple opportunties to invest in CBD and have declined. 

 

that would be a horrible decision in every way.  Kroger hasn't invested because it currently isn't a good business decision, they shouldn't put a store up just because they have headquarters there.  If you haven't noticed, they aren't a non-profit company and they aren't in the charitable business (excluding the OTR store which is there for charitable reasons).  They have very smart people that work there that can tell you that a store in the CBD won't make money.

 

That said, even though I'm not much of a WF shopper I think it'd be great if they put one downtown.

Sal, kroger has had multiple chances to invest over the years. they have been courted countless times by the city and refused.  Noone is saying they have an obligation but given that this is their corporate HQ, it would be very good corporate citizenship.  Macy's keeps their store downtown despite being no better than break-even for this very reason and it is admirable.  That being said, to your point, noone is forcing Kroegers to doso.  But if the city is in fact negotiating with a competitor and has a good deal lined up I assume it would be) and Krogers comes in, I would honestly tell them thanks but no thanks. it is a two way relationship and I don't think Kroger deserves any favors at this point. 

I don't think Kroger deserves any favors at this point. 

 

I know what you mean, but this project would not be happening at all if Krogers were not in Cincinnati.

Sal, kroger has had multiple chances to invest over the years. they have been courted countless times by the city and refused.  Noone is saying they have an obligation but given that this is their corporate HQ, it would be very good corporate citizenship.  Macy's keeps their store downtown despite being no better than break-even for this very reason and it is admirable.  That being said, to your point, noone is forcing Kroegers to doso.  But if the city is in fact negotiating with a competitor and has a good deal lined up I assume it would be) and Krogers comes in, I would honestly tell them thanks but no thanks. it is a two way relationship and I don't think Kroger deserves any favors at this point.

 

This is ridiculous.  Kroger is an incredible corporate citizen for this city and we are damn lucky to have them here.  They are committed to downtown and the city and are the number 1 reason why Dunhumby is here in the first place.  They were building condos in OTR before it was cool to build condos in OTR.  If they aren't ready to build a store in the CBD there is probably a good reason. 

How do you know that Macy's store is "break even"? It could be quite profitable. I shop there regularly.

Ive also heard the store Operates basically as budget neutral and they pay almost no rent due to city subsidy (same with Saks & Tiffany's).

What's with the "I've heards" and the "I'm hearings" ... does anyone have anything legitimate? One poster says they're Whole Foods is being tossed around; another poster says a grocer at Fifth and Race is "highly unlikely." A virtual ping-pong game, this is.

 

 

What's with the surprise? People hear things, they come to UO and discuss.

Just to end the speculation: Whole Foods isn't happening. One reason is because dunnhumby is 50% owned by Kroger.

Sorry, Kroger's 50% stake in the joint venture with dunnhumby isn't enough to end any speculation on the retail portion of this project.

 

DunnhumbyUSA is getting $12M in city incentives and $13M in tax credits from the state. I can't see the city also agreeing to a stipulation on what retailers can be approached for the site. While they will own their headquarters building, the city would own the parking garage, 3CDC the retail space, and the to-be-named residential developer would own, lease, and manage the apartment tower.

Whole Foods is not going to be at 5th and Race. That is not speculation. That is a fact.

 

I'm trying to save everyone some time and needless speculation.

Whole Foods is not going to be at 5th and Race. That is not speculation. That is a fact.

 

I'm trying to save everyone some time and needless speculation.

 

Good, because the Sixth and Race corner would be a better location.

http://www.3cdc.org/images/editor/September.pdf

 

"3CDC and dunnhumbyUSA staff continued finalizing all major

schematic design scope decisions in September. Fifth and Race,

LLC has acquired the necessary real estate from the City and

expects to close on a CNMF II loan during October."

 

in regards to 5th and race