Rumor has it the lack of development on the exterior is due to difficulties between DH and Gensler.  Hopefully they can work their differences out, otherwise the project could be delayed even more by a switch.

^Indeed. The reason the exterior renderings haven't been released is because it hasn't been finalized. They haven't agreed on an exterior treatment yet.

 

I don't think it has to do with the city pushing it over the other... No one has even said that the plum st location was for sale.... You can only buy something that is for sale.

 

For the right amount the owners of the plum st site would be happy to sell.

 

Rumor has it the lack of development on the exterior is due to difficulties between DH and Gensler.  Hopefully they can work their differences out, otherwise the project could be delayed even more by a switch.

 

This happens a lot when a "creative" company hires an architecture firm.  There are always lots of conflicts because various creative types tend to think they can also design buildings for some reason.

Rumor has it the lack of development on the exterior is due to difficulties between DH and Gensler.  Hopefully they can work their differences out, otherwise the project could be delayed even more by a switch.

 

This happens a lot when a "creative" company hires an architecture firm.  There are always lots of conflicts because various creative types tend to think they can also design buildings for some reason.

 

So do Architects, for some reason, but we've all seen the results of that.

People need to chill out.  This thing -- whatever form it takes -- is going to be a vast improvement over the parking lot and what was there before, if you happen to remember it.  It's good that we're having something other than an insurance company or bank build a headquarters that will be in a different style than what constitutes the rest of downtown. 

 

 

Let's not get carried away.  DT's most visible missing tooth is getting capped with a corporate HQ that will bring tons of weekday foot traffic - at least - and added retail.  Sure it will add nothing to the skyline but will certainly improve the feel in this nook of the city.  There was a day when the 5th and Race Tower was what we had here.  What now?  A signature tower? No.  An improvement over what has been there since ca. 1971?  Unquestionably.

 

Someone mentioned earlier that having no rez here just means it will be developed elsewhere.  I think that's a good outcome.

 

In hindsight, if DH needed large floor plates, why was the huge lot on Plum b/t 4th and 5th never in the discussion?  Come to think of it, that behemoth of a void is never discussed as far as I can recall for...uh, anything.

 

I wonder if that lot could be used for future convention center expansion?

 

As for Fifth and Race: When the Nordstrom was originally targeted to build a store at the site in the late 90s/early 2000s, what was the scope of that building supposed to be? It's possible that we're getting a taller building with the dunnhumby HQ than we ever would have got if it went Nordstrom.

 

 

Nordstrom was going to have underground parking AND above ground parking above the department store itself.  I think it was going to be 2 floors retail, then 3 decks of parking above that. 

 

The convention center expansion has always been planned to go in line with its current shape, currently west to land that will be freed up after the Brent Spence Bridge project.  I do remember circa 2002 or so after the Nordstrom thing fell through people suggesting it should be expanded east over Elm St. to bring the new entrance opposite Macy's. 

Some engineering friends have said the BSB Alternative that was chosen would prevent a convention center expansion. The one that would have freed up the most space was turned down

This groundbreaking is the subject of today's Enquirer editorial:

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20130201/EDIT01/302010050/A-symbol-Downtown-s-renaissance?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|FRONTPAGE|p

So- you're disgusted with how 90% of jobs in America work?

 

I'm disgusted by it, as is much of the world. American labor practices are pretty insane.

Still no rendering

Don't worry guys, I'm sure you'll get to see the rendering no more than a few weeks after the dunnhumby Centre opens its doors~

 

 

 

more seriously, the rendering of the insides of the building is very dunnhumby, which means that they're really pushing the design firm to produce a building that fits the needs and aesthetics of their company.  Which is great!

I know we're a ways off from knowing any street-level retail tenants, but that's what I'm most interested in at this point. I'm sure we'll have at least one or two restaurants in this block-long building, but I hope there is substantial retail too.

 

And for those pining for an Apple Store in the second phase of The Banks, I think the Dunnhumby Centre is a much more logical - and realistic - location for that. It would fit in with the creative nature of the building and be much more convenient to downtown shoppers, hotel visitors, etc. It would also be a boost to Macy's and even Saks.

 

 

Property sale and development agreement, not sure if the has been linked,

 

http://city-egov.cincinnati-oh.gov/Webtop/ws/council/public/child/Blob/35617.pdf;jsessionid=6EB6A33A494BADAD4FD3DB25C0859712?m=34469

Apparently at today's Urban Design Review hearing Gensler said the rendering would come out in March. 

 

Other notes I was told:

-  Leeper said corner of 5th and race will be restaurant, other 3 ish store front spaces are yet to be determined.

-  Building will be entirely concrete. (hoping that means more CAC and less crosley tower) Interior will be lots of concrete and glass.

-  retail floor is 22 feet, 14 feet garage and office floors (roughly 134 feet tall on 5th street side, 120 on 6th street side)

-  already confirmed plans are designed so that they grow downward into the three floors above the storefront.

-  two entrances to office- one on 5th is the dunnhumby entrance. guests would go up to 9th floor which is main lobby- then walk down through the floors.  Second office entrance on race 1 storefront from 6th. This is entrance to Kroger Finance division (or something like that) which is apparently going to be housed in 30k square feet of office space at this location since Kroger headquarters are full.

-  building will not be flat on the race street side.  there will be some balcony type spaces on the various floors along with other facade elements that make it vary. 

-  lots of talk about open space and interconnectedness and workflow collaborations etc. things Jake would cringe over.

 

Those were the notes I got! apparently it was a public meeting but I was told only about 5 people were there to hear it.

A grocery, which 90% won't happen, would be the best thing for future residential in the 5th and Race vicinity.  There are plenty of lots going west.  Once the tracks are in the ground and people are paying for a ride, ambitious projects we want to see will pepper the blocks adjacent to the line. 

I think the height is just right.  Just look at the spot.  We would need something 30+ stories just to rival Carew and the neighboring hotels.  Coming down from the cut in the Hill or anywhere really.  It will be a much better presence walking on foot.

130 feet or so is just wack. That spot would be perfect for 30 stories. But hopefully they will put 20 or 30 stories over macy's

This is an official warning for some forumers posting on this thread to quit the sniping and personal attacks.

 

Thank you.

 

I do hope we get a 30+ story building over Macy's but hey, Fifth & Race is finally getting something!

I'll reiterate:  This spot had been the 5th/Race Tower or a parking lot since the early 1970s.  There is demand for residential and it will have to go elsewhere with a likely smaller footprint. 

 

Still perplexed by the grumbling.

Anyone have an image of the building that most-recently stood at 5th and Race?

I do but it's buried in a shoe box somewhere.  If I try to find it I'll find so much other stuff along the way I won't get to it.

 

 

 

There was definitely a photo posted somewhere earlier in this thread as I remember thinking how awful it was. Also check out historicaerials.com to see imagery from various points in history. Also useful (maddeningly sad) seeing how the highways lead to severe thinking out of downtown.

 

Edit: Here's one from the Enquirer.

 

http://enquirer.com/editions/1998/01/07/tower_400x485.jpg

 

Pretty ugly...

There was also a parking garage in the northern third of the lot, about 300 spaces. 

Jmicha:  It's actually better than I remembered and had seen in other pictures.  That particular shot is new to me and, while it still qualifies as ugly, it's not abysmally so.

 

Jake:  You must go through the box. OT: Whatever happened to the website update?

^The tower itself is just meh. Not offensive per se, but nothing to write home about. It's the awkward base which utilizes the site amazingly poorly that really ruines it.

 

Also, that box of photos sounds like something that could create an amazing photo thread of Cincinnati of the past ;)

Wow...I think I actually remember that building.

There was definitely a photo posted somewhere earlier in this thread as I remember thinking how awful it was. Also check out historicaerials.com to see imagery from various points in history. Also useful (maddeningly sad) seeing how the highways lead to severe thinking out of downtown.

 

Edit: Here's one from the Enquirer.

 

http://enquirer.com/editions/1998/01/07/tower_400x485.jpg

 

Pretty ugly...

 

So.... We're pretty much getting what was already there before?

...That buliding (minus the tower of course) had about, what appears to be, 35ish feet of street frontage height. We're getting 134 covering the entire block at a much higher quality design. Although not a skyscraper, what's being built is going to feel much higher quality and more urban than what is shown in that picture. I would imagine that once the Dunnhumby Centre is built people are going to be happy with the result and in a few years time when other residential new builds are hopefully happening will forget that this site was even discussed as having a residential tower attached to it.

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet, but there's a webcam of the construction site: http://oxblue.com/open/turnerconstruction/dunnhumby

Here is the site, showing the old parking garage, right after the tower was demolished:

 

Here is the parking lot being built, late 2000 or early 2001.  I seem to remember that the site stayed dirt from the year or so between the demolition of the old building and the collapse of the Nordstrom deal:

 

The second shot with the Carew Tower I think shows how the tower could form an interesting backdrop element within the new Dunhumby building, and possibly will cast a shadow for part of each morning.  Meanwhile the 1960s hotels that it will share the block with will hopefully be replaced with something much nicer at some point. 

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet, but there's a webcam of the construction site: http://oxblue.com/open/turnerconstruction/dunnhumby

 

Thanks! I know nothing is "going up" yet and I still can't stop refreshing...

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet, but there's a webcam of the construction site: http://oxblue.com/open/turnerconstruction/dunnhumby

Webcam!!! Thanks :)

Thanks for the webcam site!!

Well, the cranes are up, and when I went by today it certainly looked like they've started with the rebar in the very bottom levels. 

I heard we might get a rendering before they deliver the interior furniture.

 

...

They have quite a bit of foundation work completed.

I don't even care anymore about the rendering.  I been checking for the rendering for over a year now. This building better be amazing

I don't even care anymore about the rendering.  I been checking for the rendering for over a year now. This building better be amazing

You never know. It could be something like what you see at that little medical center they just built Off I-71 near rookwood or the New hospital off I-74 off Northbend Rd.  I think everyone just approves everything as long as it brings in revenue.

They are secretly building this:

lol Right out of Baghdad(Located in Louisville though).

First time I saw that when driving on I264, I couldn't stop staring. So ugly. What were they thinking?!

I don't even care anymore about the rendering.  I been checking for the rendering for over a year now. This building better be amazing

 

Wow are you going to be disappointed. Obviously, if it was a great building they would have proudly presented the rendering by now. The only reason to keep it secret is because it's a real turd of a building, a real embarrassment to architecture everywhere. The CEO himself said his options were "outrageously expensive" or "Cincinnati is going to hate me." He's a business man. Which do you honestly think he is going to pick? Come back down to Earth, folks.

They are secretly building this:

 

The ugliest building in Louisville!

 

Actually looks a lot like the Millenium..

I think that building is sweet.  It's a gem and has a great back story.  My grandfather worked on the project so I am biased.

I think that building is sweet.  It's a gem and has a great back story.  My grandfather worked on the project so I am biased.

 

I agree - that's about my favorite building in L'ville. Definitely unique.

The only reason to keep it secret is because it's a real turd of a building, a real embarrassment to architecture everywhere. The CEO himself said his options were "outrageously expensive" or "Cincinnati is going to hate me." He's a business man. Which do you honestly think he is going to pick? Come back down to Earth, folks.

 

Except that isn't what he said. He said he has seen options that were outrageously expensive and ones that would make Cincinnati hate him. He never once stated those were the only options, nor did he say there wasn't some good middle ground.

 

I have no clue if you're in a design field or not, but this happens everywhere with architecture. You create a design and figure out the details, and chances are, it's over budget. It looks amazing, but it's outrageously priced. Then as an alternative you create a cheap-o version which is well within budget but generally doesn't do anything to excite the client. Even if that client is a businessman, a good businessman realizes that spending all this money to build a building that looks awful and nobody likes isn't as valuable as building a building that people like and the company can be proud of.

 

This isn't some boring, cubicle loving, soul sucking corporate office that couldn't care about the design of their space. They're very conscious of it. I would imagine the final product will fall somewhere in the middle of the two extremes he stated. Not the most amazing thing anyone has ever seen, but also not bad.

You're right, it's not a choice between A and B. Let's add more options here.

 

1. Outrageously expensive

2. Really expensive

3. "Cincinnati deserves better"

4. What were they thinking?

5. Boston City Hall, redux

 

Again, which is a businessman going to choose? There are people at Dunnhumby who have already seen the renderings. They're just not sharing them with the public. People need to lower their expectations on this one.

^If by that account there'd never be good looking buildings. Ever. Anywhere. No skyscrapers or office buildings would ever come out looking nice and exciting for their city. As we both know, this is hardly true. You're still leaving out the middle ground. There is a spot between 2 and 3 which is, 'not groundbreaking, but looks good and is within budget.'

 

This company obviously cares about how its building will look. If they were going purely for 'cheapest we can build' there wouldn't be massive diagonal cuts through the center of the building to create dramatic interior atriums. Light is great but getting it into the interior is expensive, so according to your logic this shouldn't be the method they chose. Yet they did. And I've seen some additional unreleased renderings of the interior and they look quite nice. They weren't finished renderings, but they aren't skimping.

 

I've spoken with someone from 3CDC who has seen various renderings and she said that the direction they're taking is modern and although nothing groundbreaking is going to please people.