November 29, 200618 yr yeah this project really sounds great and the developers directive to cater to young professionals is just outstanding. i think people are right, if this project does in fact come to fruition it will indicate if not cause a dramatic swing downtown. this coupled with the efforts on fountain square would really begin to establish a "vibrance" that has been missing for way too long. come on guys...pull this one off!
November 29, 200618 yr I know I'm going to get bashed for this, but oh well - it's par for the course. I have to say how I feel. I think it's GREAT that they are planning this project, but only 15-20 stories?? In my opinion, that's just another short squatty building on a prime piece of downtown real estate **coughFountainSquareWestcough** that could be used to build the city's new tallest....seeing as how QCS2 doesn't seem to be in the news too much anymore.
November 29, 200618 yr ^only 15-20 stories? Queen City Square I was only 16 stories and was the first new construction of that height since 1991. Baby Steps, don't force it; it will work out.
November 29, 200618 yr I was really wishing there was something at the 5th and Race lot on Saturday when I was skating at Fountain Square. Think about it...you'll have Government Square, Fountain Square, Dewy's, possible bar, other restaurants on the north side of the square, McSchmic's, Boi Na Braza, the relocated Mortans, Tiffanies, Brooks Brothers, Macy's, Tower Place, Saks, and then this reatil and highrise. Wow! That is going to be one hell of a stretch when its all done.
November 30, 200618 yr Wow I am excited. Bringing population downtown is the key for revitalization. People do not really care about the height of buildings as much as they do about a city's vibrancy and activity level.
November 30, 200618 yr I think it's GREAT that they are planning this project, but only 15-20 stories?? In my opinion, that's just another short squatty building on a prime piece of downtown real estate **coughFountainSquareWestcough** that could be used to build the city's new tallest....seeing as how QCS2 doesn't seem to be in the news too much anymore. I certainly see your point, but I think that the Macy's site is much more important real estate, being on the sqaure. Building something taller and with more office space will certainly hurt the potential to build something there in the future. Just my thinking...
November 30, 200618 yr WHERE DO I SIGN! ;) (Seriously, this is great news. I talked to this guy a couple of months ago and he urged me to write city council and the mayors, which I did. I urge everyone here to write the city and express how you feel to them. City council is a major player in making this project come to fruition.) I'm with 1012 in a sense ... I was thinking they were originally planned to be 25-30 stories? Am I wrong?
November 30, 200618 yr WHERE DO I SIGN! ;) (Seriously, this is great news. I talked to this guy a couple of months ago and he urged me to write city council and the mayors, which I did. I urge everyone here to write the city and express how you feel to them. City council is a major player in making this project come to fruition.) Do you have any suggestions on what we should mention in our letters/emails to city council?
November 30, 200618 yr I actually hope that this doesn't get too much play in the media right now. I would like to have actual land acquisition before the media plays this up and then talks about the endless delays that this project is having. This is really important for the sixth and race retail corridors. This'll prompt restaurants and other retail along both of those streets. This will also spillover into convention benefits.
November 30, 200618 yr I'm excited about this but...... If there going to call it a "high-rise", then make it a high-rise. 15-20 stories to me is a mid-rise building. I was always under the impression that a high-rise was any building over 400ft tall. Anything smaller is a mid-rise or low-rise. I don't know if there are any guidelines, but that is just my impression. My only concern is that it won't be tall enough to be seen in our famous skyline pictures. Other than that I'm very happy that their getting the ball rolling and I can't wait to see the design.
November 30, 200618 yr WHERE DO I SIGN! ;) (Seriously, this is great news. I talked to this guy a couple of months ago and he urged me to write city council and the mayors, which I did. I urge everyone here to write the city and express how you feel to them. City council is a major player in making this project come to fruition.) Do you have any suggestions on what we should mention in our letters/emails to city council? Basically, it just helps to see so many people concerned on what goes on in that corner. I wrote an email saying that I feel it is a shame to see such a prime piece of real estate become a parking lot and stay a parking lot. If you do your homework on the history of that location you will see that that corner was supposed to be many things, but all ended up as nothing but ideas. I think it helps to show frustration. I would also mention that you and your husband have invested in downtown. One thing that I didn't like was Eagle Realty (I wont say his name) played this off as if they were waiting on the city. After emailing the city, of course many of their comments reflected exactly the opposite. The blame game. Most every one of the council members responded back.
November 30, 200618 yr I'm excited about this but...... If there going to call it a "high-rise", then make it a high-rise. 15-20 stories to me is a mid-rise building. I was always under the impression that a high-rise was any building over 400ft tall. Anything smaller is a mid-rise or low-rise. I don't know if there are any guidelines, but that is just my impression. High-rise: High-rise buildings first became possible due to the invention of the elevator (also known as the lift in British English) and a cheap building material. The building itself is usually considered to be between 75ft to 491ft. Buildings larger than 492ft are considered to be classified as skyscrapers. Source: Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-rise Hopefully this clears things up a little for you, your 400ft. classification just shocked me at first.....I would most definately consider a 35 story bldg (370 ft or so) a high-rise.
November 30, 200618 yr The Enquirer's article, a little new info.... New plan offered for Fifth and Race Eagle Realty suggests condos and stores BY JON NEWBERRY | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER Eagle Realty has presented city of Cincinnati officials with a concept for a mixed-use condominium and retail project to be built at the vacant corner of Fifth and Race streets downtown. City spokeswoman Meg Olberding said the Western & Southern Financial Group Inc. real estate subsidiary is working on a more detailed plan and financing. Officials have not made any decisions regarding the development site, and the clock is still ticking on a 12-month deadline the city imposed in August, she said. Eagle Realty has had development rights to the property since the 1990s under an agreement with the city, which cleared the site of a 14-story office tower in 1999. Read full article here: http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061130/BIZ01/611300328/1076/BIZ
November 30, 200618 yr Isn't there some sort of City Ordinance that prevents any building from being taller than Carew Tower. I heard that somewhere and was wondering if were true. If it is true, that sure is stunting the City's growth.
November 30, 200618 yr i dont think it is stunting the citys growth if thats true. its not like a developer comes in, says they must build a 575 foot building, city says no, and the developer leaves. give me an example of that happening. plus, its not like this proposal even comes close to carews height so its not like the developer wants more but cant get it b/c of a height restriction. but yea, i dont think there is one anyway, atleast not anymore. QCS2 will be taller than the carew if it gets built.
November 30, 200618 yr Agreed; no height restriction is stunting Cincinnati's growth. I don't think there's legislation, but there is an urban design review board or somesuch and they have stated that there is an aesthetic value in the "pyramid" of the skyline that they'd like to preserve. But what that means is that they'd rather see taller buildings go up around Vine rather than say Central. Not sure how much say they have, or how strongly that view is held.
November 30, 200618 yr can anyone put together what a building of, say 30 stories or so would look like at this intersection. Isnt this area more on the western part of downtown? If the pyramid look is to stand, cincy needs more buildings on the west half of downtown. maybe if this building height gets increased it would help.
November 30, 200618 yr the issue is not how tall this building is...its in a location downtown that unless its 50 floors it wont really have that much impact in the skyline. sure its always nice to add another big trophy to the case but the little ones count just as much. what is most important is that SOMETHING goes up on this site. a building of only 15 to 20 floors will do wonders to improve the street environment in that area. hopefully when this comes together the folks at the millennium hotel will see the need to do something with their 5th street entry...thats just terrible.
November 30, 200618 yr There is no "real" height restriction on buildings. The Cincinnati 2000 Plan set height limits in certain areas to keep a pyramidal shape of the skyline peaking at Fountain Square. It is generally followed, but exceptions are made, e.g. QCS II will put a bump in the skyline pyramid.
November 30, 200618 yr Isnt this area more on the western part of downtown? If the pyramid look is to stand, cincy needs more buildings on the west half of downtown. maybe if this building height gets increased it would help. This location is one block west of FS (the traditional heart of the city/downtown). So I would not say that it is on the western edge...but it is west of Vine (dividing line of E/W). As for the whole building height discussion...the restrictions/guidelines in place have not/will not ever stunt growth. They are only recommending a 15-20 story bldg here because that is what they are pegging the demand to be. The city will ALWAYS grant variances where need be to get development done...the more the better for the city (its all about the $$$). The skyline is great right now, and I would love to see another signature piece to that shot (QCS II). But you cannot overlook the importance of filler bldgs throughout a downtown, that is what makes a place feel 'urban'. This is Cbus's major issue, and many places for that matter. I am very glad that the city will be getting rid of another surface lot!!!!
November 30, 200618 yr High-rise: High-rise buildings first became possible due to the invention of the elevator (also known as the lift in British English) and a cheap building material. The building itself is usually considered to be between 75ft to 491ft. Buildings larger than 492ft are considered to be classified as skyscrapers. Source: Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-rise Hopefully this clears things up a little for you, your 400ft. classification just shocked me at first.....I would most definately consider a 35 story bldg (370 ft or so) a high-rise. Thanks for clarifying. I remember were I got that impression. It was the World Almanac. They only list buildings that are 400ft or higher. So I guess I just assumed they were considering anything under 400ft was not a high-rise. Still it would be nice if this project ended up being around 400 feet.
December 1, 200618 yr I'm excited about this but...... If there going to call it a "high-rise", then make it a high-rise. 15-20 stories to me is a mid-rise building. I was always under the impression that a high-rise was any building over 400ft tall. Anything smaller is a mid-rise or low-rise. I don't know if there are any guidelines, but that is just my impression. My only concern is that it won't be tall enough to be seen in our famous skyline pictures. Other than that I'm very happy that their getting the ball rolling and I can't wait to see the design. 15-20 stories can be anywhere between 290-360 feet. That's more than enough to be a highrise. In Cininnati, Kroger, Federated, 525 vine, 312 Elm and P&G are all around the 20 floor mark. They are pretty sizable buildings. Heck, Scripps is only 26 floors and it is the 3rd tallest in Ciny at 468 feet. If QCSII is built it would stand nearly 700ft with only 35 floors! So it all depends on the floor plate height more than anything. If this new tower goes to 20 floors, I would expect to see something around 260-290 feet for a condo development.
December 1, 200618 yr >Despite the success, Hines is hard-pressed to explain why. "I think convenience is a big part of it," she said. "I think it's a lot cooler to live in an urban area than a suburban area. ... I don't think you can point to a single thing." Yeah, and the fact that Nashville's suburbs are especially indistinct, traffic is horrendous, and there is a shortage of the old homes and old apartments that young people live in for cheap in older northern cities. Nashville has no Clifton or Hyde Park or Mt. Adams or riverfront and the downtown and Vanderbilt areas aren't especially urban. I've mentioned it on other threads but a big challenge for residential development in downtown Cincinnati is that the city has a dozen secondary urban areas within a 5 mile radius competing with it. Also until a rendering appears, don't count on all underground parking, I remember the Nordstrom store was planned to have underground parking and more parking decks above the store. Obviously with more elevated parking the building itself will be higher.
December 2, 200618 yr This is good news - I hope they actually get something built this time and think they would definitely have a market for those who truly want to be in the downtown grid. Also, Scripps is actually 35 or 36 stories. Many of Cincinnati's buildings are shorter than they could be based on the number of floors. I would expect 15-20 stories to be 180-240 feet, but I am not sure if residential floor height is generally more or less than office.
December 2, 200618 yr I would expect 15-20 stories to be 180-240 feet, but I am not sure if residential floor height is generally more or less than office. I would venture to say that residential floor heights are normally less than the office counterparts. Especially if the units are going to be on the cheaper end.
December 2, 200618 yr Residential heights are less than office heights. "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
December 5, 200618 yr I kinda had a feeling that Eagle had hired this group to do the 5th & race project, I guess I was wrong http://www.theghazicompany.com/future.htm
December 5, 200618 yr yeah i thought someone had mentioned that at one time too. or at least that there was an association in some way or another with that charlotte project
December 6, 200618 yr This answers your question about the Charlotte connection... Fifth & Race vision outlined Condos, retail on both streets, parking included BY JON NEWBERRY | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER Eagle Realty Group's proposed high-rise condominium tower at Fifth and Race streets downtown includes retail space along both streets, 700 or more parking spaces, and relatively low-priced residential units targeted to young professionals, according to the project's Indianapolis-based co-developer. Tony Birkla, vice president of development for Flaherty & Collins Properties, said the size, scope, cost and financing of the development are still being worked out, but that it will likely get under way in 2007. Flaherty & Collins has a regional office in Covington from which it develops and manages more than a dozen residential properties in the Greater Cincinnati and Dayton markets. Read full article here: http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/AB/20061206/BIZ01/612060330/
December 6, 200618 yr Locally, the company recently completed the 252-unit Shadow Creek Apartments in Hamilton. Errr...I'm not so excited anymore. http://www.flahertycollins.com/communities/shadowOH.shtml
December 6, 200618 yr ^ oh come on...they arent going to build THAT. thought im a little less confident in the project when they use phrases like "it will LIKELY get under way in 2007". i hope they figure this one out!
December 6, 200618 yr ....The 20- to 25-story condominium tower would be less than half the size of a 50-story tower Flaherty & Collins is building in Charlotte, N.C. There ya' go....we're inching up there. It was slated as 15-20 stories before, so maybe by the time they get the plans finalized, we'll see a 50-story structure and I won't have to be so jealous of Charlotte anymore (nor angry about why OUR project can't be that high to begin with. But I go on and on about skyscrapers, don't I? I should shut up.) Obviously they wouldn't build that, but it hurts their reputation with me. Would you rather it remain an empty parking lot until they find another developer?
December 6, 200618 yr Tony Birkla' date=' vice president of development for Flaherty & Collins Properties, said the size, scope, cost and financing of the development are still being worked out, [b']but that it will likely get under way in 2007.[/b] This better be the case....I really want to see more cranes in/around downtown!!!!
December 6, 200618 yr I wouldn't be jealous of Charlotte, if Nashville has no secondary areas, Charlotte absolutely has nothing competing with downtown, no major university, and doesn't even have a hill, pit, or body of water nearby. There's nothing going on in Charlotte except downtown (which is still home to tons of surface parkign) which is why all the development is concentrated there. Charlotte is like if Middletown had just happened to have one of the largest banks in the world build a 70 floor headquarters. The city only had 20,000 people in 1900, or roughly the size of Neport , KY and 100,000 by 1950, the population of Cincinnati in 1840.
December 6, 200618 yr Yeah last time I was in Charlotte I went into a bar during the ohio state michigan game (two years ago) and saw everyone wearing OSU and some Michigan Apparell, i felt like i was in Columbus. Charlotte is a boom town just like Atlanta, I don't think there really is a sense of place there or a feeling of what it means to be from charlotte. I guess the biggest university would be UNC charlotte which really didn't have anything much around campus when i was there for the 2004 SERSAS. But back to cincinnati, I think it will be really cool to see the tower on 5th and race from fountain square. Rigth now there is a little hole in the cityscape looking west. 25 stories would be great, not just from a height standpoint, but also from a density standpoint. If the streetcar ends up with the elm race alignment, findlay market would be the natural grocery store for all the new residents and all the existing residents of the west side of downtown. Now all we need is a whole foods or something across from St. Xavier Church with residential above it, middle earth to develop the lot across from the convention center, a little infill aroudn the library, a lot of infill around the courthouse and a mass transit system and we are set. Ten years tops, five if oil prices explode.
December 6, 200618 yr ^ i think think ohio state dominates in a lot of places. i was in memphis during the championship game in 2002 and the bar had nothing but ohio state fans. we just need to reel them all back in. the city has got to find a way to make these projects easier to finance. all of the recent residential projects have been successfull in the end but each has had their fair share of trouble. it seems the proverbial "hump" has been the death of too many ideas that could have been just as successful.
December 7, 200618 yr I'm not ripping on the people of Charlotte, who I'm sure are fine people, just the jealousy and boosterism that the city's downtown development arouses on internet forums. Will be interesting to see if the skywalk is incorporated, I am rooting as much as anyone else for a solid project in this location.
December 7, 200618 yr Good point about the skywalk, I had completely forgotten about it. Is it still standing over Race and Fifth Sts. or did they take them both down? If it connects to the retail and they are still in place, then I say use them. If they won't connect to 2nd floor retail and/or are already gone, then to hell with them.
December 7, 200618 yr They both are still there and extend across Race St. and 5th St. (on a side note, one day when I was walking to work I heard a loud bang noise and looked over and cement truck was stuck underneath the skywalk on 5th ... no joke.)
December 7, 200618 yr I'm not crazy about skywalks, they take people off of the street and create a 2ndary private street up in buildings.
December 7, 200618 yr ^That is the general consensus on this site, it seems. Although, since Tower Place and Macy's and Sak's are all connected by them, second floor retail in the new tower might be hurt if it wasn't connected.
December 8, 200618 yr ^It also seems though that the powers at be for downtown are trying very hard to rearrange the retail element back onto the streets and out of Tower Place. If they were to be trully successful at this, then this project would be a nice catalyst towards that. -Orient the new retail to the street -Remove the skywalks over 5th and Race Streets -Reorient the retailers along Vine and Race (inside Tower Place) back towards the street This could be done, and it seems as though the city has an interest in doing this. I say take them down at this opportune time, and get the people back on the streets (like a real city) and quit competing with the suburban trash malls that keep everyone couped inside. Lets all strive for window shopping and human interaction!!!
December 8, 200618 yr ^Amen! ... especially when it's 5 degrees (real feel) outside (like it was tonight). ;)
December 12, 200618 yr ^Did I say that? I didn't say you did, Inkaelin. But look at your attitude. Are you really going to fault me for asking that question? I mean, come on - in your previous post, you stated you weren't excited about the project anymore, simply because of the developer. At least something is getting built, instead of being delayed while a different developer is chosen. Your attitude indicates you'd prefer to see that simply because you don't like their style. If I'm wrong, I apologize.
December 12, 200618 yr you stated you weren't excited about the project anymore I believe I said that I wasn't so excited about the project anymore. I am still somewhat excited about the project, I do want to see it happen. Sorry for the miscommunication...its all good!
December 12, 200618 yr My old buddy designed the 5th and race parking lot. He lives on the west coast now. It would be a good time to get back in touch with him and tell him the bad news :lol: Build this dang thing NOW!
December 12, 200618 yr My old buddy designed the 5th and race parking lot. He lives on the west coast now. Oh...well tell him the 'Nati has a message for him :shoot: :shoot: :shoot: :shoot: :shoot: :shoot: :shoot:
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