Yet at the Cincinnati airport, O&D travelers make up just about 30 percent of all passengers, a position not uncommon for a smaller city, some say, but all the same one that has room for improvement.

 

I don't want to rain on the parade, but I'd love to know how many of the other 70% are Cincinnati passengers that drove to Louisville, Dayton, or Columbus to get a much cheaper fare, only to connect through CVG via the same flight they would have taken from here to begin with.

 

Actually it would be two flights.  the flight for X to CVG then the (original) flight from CVG to X.

Yep, making it an even bigger waste.  Delta gets paid less money for two flights than they were charging for one, while simultaneously irritating the customer.  That's a sound business model...  :roll:

Yep, making it an even bigger waste.  Delta gets paid less money for two flights than they were charging for one, while simultaneously irritating the customer.  That's a sound business model...  :roll:

It's called "being a captive of a hub city".  and they might not necessarily get paid less, just because one person (or group) was able to buy X number of seats at a lower price, that doesn't mean the next person is going to be able to replicate the same fare, in those two city pairs.

True, but this is a very common practice in Cincinnati.  The fares here are almost always more expensive than nearby cities.  I'm not trying to whine, and obviously it won't hold true in every case, but I'd still be interested to know what percentage of CVG's passengers on any given day are doing this.  Anecdotally, I booked a flight for a business trip the other day.  The fare from CVG was $630.  The fare for the trip if I drive to Columbus then fly to CVG and catch the same flight was $380.  That's a savings that many people are willing to drive for.

True, but this is a very common practice in Cincinnati.  The fares here are almost always more expensive than nearby cities.  I'm not trying to whine, and obviously it won't hold true in every case, but I'd still be interested to know what percentage of CVG's passengers on any given day are doing this.  Anecdotally, I booked a flight for a business trip the other day.  The fare from CVG was $630.  The fare for the trip if I drive to Columbus then fly to CVG and catch the same flight was $380.  That's a savings that many people are willing to drive for.

Its not immune to CVG.  But your savings does not take into account, gas, car maintanence, or time to travel to & from Columbus.  To most business folks, who are T&E accounts, there time is more important than price.  Leisure travelers only make up about 30-40% of the flying public.

Granted, this is just one example, but a $250 difference is far more than you'd spend on gas.  I work for a major corporation with it's own travel department, but one of the easiest ways companies can affect their bottom line is to cut unnecessary travel and book cheap flights when possible.  Also, not being a big wig, my company doesn't care about my time, only our travel budget.  Guess which flight I had to book.  :x 

 

 

sucks doesn't it.  :wink:

^ My point exactly.  But it's also why I have zero sympathy for the airline industry's woes. 

 

/EDIT: The airline industry in general, that is.  I do feel bad for the employees that are in limbo right now, not knowing how secure their jobs really are.

DL is pulling CAK-CVG service on July 1.

Delta to cut local capacity by 23 percent

Business Courier of Cincinnati - by Lisa Biank Fasig, Courier staff reporter

 

Delta Air Lines Inc. has put a number to the amount of capacity it plans to reduce at the Greater Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky International Airport this fall: 23 percent.  The cuts, to begin in September, will result in 93 fewer flights on high traffic days, to 314 from 407 flights in September 2007, said Delta spokeswoman Susan Elliott.  But the number of destinations are only being reduced by about 10 percent, she said.

 

The Greater Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky International Airport will remain Delta's second-largest hub, she said.  Likewise, it will maintain its rank as the third-largest hub in the Midwest, behind Chicago O'Hare and Detroit.  Atlanta-based Delta (NYSE:DAL), like many carriers, is reducing its domestic capacity as it struggles to manage $140-a-barrel fuel costs. Delta has previously said it would cut its domestic capacity (meaning seats) by 13 percent in the second half of 2008.

 

Comair, a subsidiary of Delta, also is reducing capacity.  It said Tuesday that it expects to cut 300 pilot and 220 attendant jobs after this summer, as it grounds 14 jets.

 

Full story at http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2008/07/07/daily44.html

From The Enquirer:

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080709/BIZ01/307090072/1076/rss01

 

So far we don't know exactly which routes will be affected, though I think it's pretty safe to say the CVG won't be loosing the flights that "count" if you will. I'm talking about nonstop flights to cities like San Francisco and Seattle, Frankfurt and Paris. Those all likely make quite a bit of money for Delta, and I can definitely see remaining (worst case scenario would be frequency cuts, i.e. 2x daily CVG-LAX instead of 4x daily). We do know some routes that will be cut completely from local media sources, so far they include:  Akron, Lansing, Roanoke, State College, Toledo

 

Really as far as importance measured in origin and destination traffic is concerned, these cuts really aren't critical. My guess is that in addition to frequency reductions, cuts will come in the form of discontinued service to similar sized cities without a large Delta presence or where Northwest can easily provide service through DTW once the merger is complete, such as Fort Wayne, Appleton, and Allentown.

 

Either way, it's certainly disappointing to watch this happen, but every cities around the country is facing some pretty major air service cuts. Hopefully something can be done to right the course in which the airlines are going.

I don't see anything really positive about this situation.

 

Yes other hub cities are seeing reductions, but this is Delta's second 20+% pull down of their operations at CVG over the last 2 years. CVG's DL ops will now be almost half of what it was in the summer of '05. The only other US hub city's airport I can think of that has seen this dramatic of a drop in operations since Sept. 11th, 2001 is PIT, and that airport isn't a hub anymore.

 

DeltaWest management came out before this reduction and said that CVG and Memphis' fate lies with current situation with oil. This move seems to reiterate that point.

 

The article is incorrect too, MSP is bigger than CVG now.

Looks like CVG will have half the number of flights in late 2008 than when I started working there in Jan of 2005.  It is a real shame.  In all honesty, I would rather see CVG lose it's hub status because it's mostly regional jets making up the majority of flights.  With a low cost carrier coming in, it would make CVG a viable option for everyone in the tristate area who now go to neighboring cities to travel(myself included). 

I am also tired of us being used by Delta. We give and give, they gladly take and keep taking.  The airline industry is in a tough spot with the high price of oil, so it might not be all Delta's fault.

Looks like CVG will have half the number of flights in late 2008 than when I started working there in Jan of 2005.  It is a real shame.  In all honesty, I would rather see CVG lose it's hub status because it's mostly regional jets making up the majority of flights.  With a low cost carrier coming in, it would make CVG a viable option for everyone in the tristate area who now go to neighboring cities to travel(myself included). 

I am also tired of us being used by Delta. We give and give, they gladly take and keep taking.  The airline industry is in a tough spot with the high price of oil, so it might not be all Delta's fault.

Some of our analysts have said its very unlikely that a LCC would set up shop in CVG for various reasons.  Some being:

• The Economy.  No airline is in the position to open up shop in an unstable environment/Economy.
  
• Too many airports with LCC carriers within 150 miles of CVG
  
• Corporate contracts are in full affect.  So a LCC won't make much money as leisure travelers aren't spending any disposable income.
  

It's going to get worse before it gets better.  Also, we're seeing hotel and car rental rates drop in an effort to maintain bookings.  Amtrack, hotels and car rental company's are going back to post 9-11 tactics hitting up their customers, especially elite travelers with promos and bonuses.

 

Too many airports with LCC carriers within 150 miles of CVG

 

I agree with you for the most part, but not with this statement in particular.  I'm not an economist or involved in the airline industry, but I could see one of those airlines MOVING to CVG to fill the gap, as opposed to a new/different LCC setting up shop here.  The 150-mile radius basically means Lexington, Louisville, Dayton, Columbus, Indianapolis and possibly a few others.  None of those cities surpass Cincinnati in population, prestige, economy, etc.  A few can make valid arguments for being equal, but it's not like Cincy is 150 miles from a Chicago, New York, or Atlanta.  Given that Cincy is HQ for many Fortune 500 (and even more Fortune 1000) companies with offices all across the world, there is a fair amount of business travel to be had.  I'm not saying that someone will definitely relocate, but I don't think that it would be outside the realm of possibility for an LCC to consider a move from say, Lexington or Louisville, to Cincinnati if there was suddenly a void to be filled.

It would seem logical that a non-fortress CVG would imperil Dayton the most, like Toledo is being crushed by Detroit. For sheer efficiency, it is unfortunate that CVG, DAY, and C-bus airports are further away from the metro triangle. If Dayton's airport was in the SE, Cincy's in the NE, or C-bus in SW, that airport could have made a play for a mega-regional institution.

 

I guess CVG does that with Lexington and Louisville, but the population down there isn't as substantial or wealthy as in Ohio.

Too many airports with LCC carriers within 150 miles of CVG

 

I agree with you for the most part, but not with this statement in particular.  I'm not an economist or involved in the airline industry, but I could see one of those airlines MOVING to CVG to fill the gap, as opposed to a new/different LCC setting up shop here.  The 150-mile radius basically means Lexington, Louisville, Dayton, Columbus, Indianapolis and possibly a few others.  None of those cities surpass Cincinnati in population, prestige, economy, etc.  A few can make valid arguments for being equal, but it's not like Cincy is 150 miles from a Chicago, New York, or Atlanta.  Given that Cincy is HQ for many Fortune 500 (and even more Fortune 1000) companies with offices all across the world, there is a fair amount of business travel to be had.  I'm not saying that someone will definitely relocate, but I don't think that it would be outside the realm of possibility for an LCC to consider a move from say, Lexington or Louisville, to Cincinnati if there was suddenly a void to be filled.

 

You all keep thinking that just because fortune 500 are in Cinci it makes the case to move or support an airline and in this economy, that methodology is thrown out.

 

Again, business have corporate contract, mostly with Delta, they and their elite travelers wont switch allegiance because a LCC has come to CVG.

 

Also, in this economy, no airline will move from one airport to another just to fill a vacancy.  No airline, outside of southwest, has the capital to build a base of operations at an airport that fits their operations.

 

It would seem logical that a non-fortress CVG would imperil Dayton the most, like Toledo is being crushed by Detroit. For sheer efficiency, it is unfortunate that CVG, DAY, and C-bus airports are further away from the metro triangle. If Dayton's airport was in the SE, Cincy's in the NE, or C-bus in SW, that airport could have made a play for a mega-regional institution.

 

I guess CVG does that with Lexington and Louisville, but the population down there isn't as substantial or wealthy as in Ohio.

Toledo and Akron-Canton and Dayton don't have the non stop or business travelers that Detroit, Cleveland or Cinci have or the draw of the Non Stop flight.  So those airports are the first to see a downsize in aircraft size; frequency to a hub or an all out cut.

Too many airports with LCC carriers within 150 miles of CVG

 

I agree with you for the most part, but not with this statement in particular.  I'm not an economist or involved in the airline industry, but I could see one of those airlines MOVING to CVG to fill the gap, as opposed to a new/different LCC setting up shop here.  The 150-mile radius basically means Lexington, Louisville, Dayton, Columbus, Indianapolis and possibly a few others.  None of those cities surpass Cincinnati in population, prestige, economy, etc.  A few can make valid arguments for being equal, but it's not like Cincy is 150 miles from a Chicago, New York, or Atlanta.  Given that Cincy is HQ for many Fortune 500 (and even more Fortune 1000) companies with offices all across the world, there is a fair amount of business travel to be had.  I'm not saying that someone will definitely relocate, but I don't think that it would be outside the realm of possibility for an LCC to consider a move from say, Lexington or Louisville, to Cincinnati if there was suddenly a void to be filled.

 

It's not about some vague sense of regional prestige, it's about making economic sense. Every low cost carrier that has attempted to fly into CVG has been burned by Delta and its loyal customers. Well, there's a price to playing that game, and it's being played out right now. Where DeltaWest goes, no so does CVG. There's not a LCC on the planet right now willing to go into a market that has burned so many players in better economic times. The users of CVG have had quite a few chances to diversify that airport, but now with oil at $145 a barrel, it's way too late to think that low cost carriers are willing to start an operation with a high risk of failure.

 

Like I orginially said, no matter how one spins it there's nothing positive about the Delta/CVG news.

 

It would seem logical that a non-fortress CVG would imperil Dayton the most, like Toledo is being crushed by Detroit. For sheer efficiency, it is unfortunate that CVG, DAY, and C-bus airports are further away from the metro triangle. If Dayton's airport was in the SE, Cincy's in the NE, or C-bus in SW, that airport could have made a play for a mega-regional institution.

 

I guess CVG does that with Lexington and Louisville, but the population down there isn't as substantial or wealthy as in Ohio.

 

There's no reason to think that changing the locations of Columbus, Dayton and Cincinnati would have made them stronger. In fact, you could easily argue it would have been an ATC nightmare and made them less desirable.

 

Also Toledo is getting phased out by piss-poor management. They let Flint plunder all the low-cost carriers looking for a cheaper alternative to Detroit.

You all keep thinking that just because fortune 500 are in Cinci it makes the case to move or support an airline and in this economy, that methodology is thrown out.

 

Maybe.  It's not an argument unto itself.  It's a piece of the puzzle.  Business travel gets cut back because of market conditions, but it doesn't vaporize.  The key isn't that Fortune 500s happen to be in Cincy, it's that they are headquartered there.  Business travel to an HQ tends to fair better than to a regional office.  Again, it's not the only factor, but it's a major point that the city has in its "plus column", and would definitely be something taken into consideration with other criteria if someone planned to move in.

 

Again, business have corporate contract, mostly with Delta, they and their elite travelers wont switch allegiance because a LCC has come to CVG.

 

True, but contracts aren't eternal.  They must be renewed.  If Delta withdraws the hub status of CVG, businesses headquartered in Cincinnati would have little reason to renew a contract with them.  In this scenario, room for a relocating LCC could exist.  And if they do keep the hub at CVG, our debate is meaningless.  My employer has deals with several airlines including Delta, to the point where our travel department books flights preferentially based on the carrier, then price.  So having a contract does not always guarantee exclusivity, sometimes it is only preference.

 

Honestly, I think that the future of the airline industry in general is pretty bleak, so it may not matter what Delta decides to do with CVG.

It's not about some vague sense of regional prestige, it's about making economic sense. Every low cost carrier that has attempted to fly into CVG has been burned by Delta and its loyal customers. Well, there's a price to playing that game, and it's being played out right now. Where DeltaWest goes, no so does CVG. There's not a LCC on the planet right now willing to go into a market that has burned so many players in better economic times. The users of CVG have had quite a few chances to diversify that airport, but now with oil at $145 a barrel, it's way too late to think that low cost carriers are willing to start an operation with a high risk of failure.

 

All of that happened when CVG was a hub.  If Delta keeps cutting flights and withdraws hub status, that changes the game dramatically.  Does it change it enough to bring in another carrier?  Personally, with the realities of the economy being what they are, I doubt it.  All I'm saying is that it's possible.  We don't even know for sure if this is going to happen yet, so this is ALL SPECULATION at this point.

It's not about some vague sense of regional prestige, it's about making economic sense. Every low cost carrier that has attempted to fly into CVG has been burned by Delta and its loyal customers. Well, there's a price to playing that game, and it's being played out right now. Where DeltaWest goes, no so does CVG. There's not a LCC on the planet right now willing to go into a market that has burned so many players in better economic times. The users of CVG have had quite a few chances to diversify that airport, but now with oil at $145 a barrel, it's way too late to think that low cost carriers are willing to start an operation with a high risk of failure.

 

All of that happened when CVG was a hub.  If Delta keeps cutting flights and withdraws hub status, that changes the game dramatically.  Does it change it enough to bring in another carrier?  Personally, with the realities of the economy being what they are, I doubt it.  All I'm saying is that it's possible.  We don't even know for sure if this is going to happen yet, so this is ALL SPECULATION at this point.

 

IF CVG losses hub status...I'd be very surprised if an LCC didn't come in. I was talking about an LCC carrier coming in as Delta draws down its ops. That's not going to happen. Delta will have to have practically bare bones ops in Cincinnati before Southwest or Airtran or whoever decides to start operating there in the current economic conditions. No joke. Ask the people of Pittsburgh. Their hub fell a long way before being suplimented by SW and JetBlue. And that was when oil was $65/barrel. PIT wasn't a fortress like CVG is either.

 

A 45% percent reduction in overall DL ops in CVG over the last 2 1/2 years dosen't feel like speculation to me. Again, DeltaWest mgmt. has been quoted on this issue as well.

IF CVG losses hub status...I'd be very surprised if an LCC didn't come in. I was talking about an LCC carrier coming in as Delta draws down its ops.

 

Oh okay.  We're arguing different, but similar points then. 

IF CVG losses hub status...I'd be very surprised if an LCC didn't come in. I was talking about an LCC carrier coming in as Delta draws down its ops.

 

Oh okay.  We're arguing different, but similar points then. 

 

Right, Cincinnati is clearly important enough, sans Delta, that it wont be ignored. Hell, Akron-Canton is a focus airport of AirTran. But if Delta bails, I wouldn't expect a rush of carriers to establish a "hub" there. It takes time, and even LCC's are cautious of moving into new markets with the current market conditions.

My aunt recently flew out of Dayton. She bought tickets for 2 $245  round trip tickets to San Fransico. She got them 2 months ago. Now the same ticket cost over $500 each. So it's no longer cheaper to drive to other airports. You have to factor in the  gas to get the other airports and then your time.

My aunt recently flew out of Dayton. She bought tickets for 2 $245  round trip tickets to San Fransico. She got them 2 months ago. Now the same ticket cost over $500 each. So it's no longer cheaper to drive to other airports. You have to factor in the  gas to get the other airports and then your time.

 

...and Parking.

IF CVG losses hub status...I'd be very surprised if an LCC didn't come in. I was talking about an LCC carrier coming in as Delta draws down its ops.

 

Oh okay.  We're arguing different, but similar points then. 

 

Right, Cincinnati is clearly important enough, sans Delta, that it wont be ignored. Hell, Akron-Canton is a focus airport of AirTran. But if Delta bails, I wouldn't expect a rush of carriers to establish a "hub" there. It takes time, and even LCC's are cautious of moving into new markets with the current market conditions.

Akron isn't a "focus city".  Regardless, I would think it will be a blip with the cuts that have already taken place and to come.

My aunt recently flew out of Dayton. She bought tickets for 2 $245  round trip tickets to San Fransico. She got them 2 months ago. Now the same ticket cost over $500 each. So it's no longer cheaper to drive to other airports. You have to factor in the  gas to get the other airports and then your time.

 

...and Parking.

IF CVG losses hub status...I'd be very surprised if an LCC didn't come in. I was talking about an LCC carrier coming in as Delta draws down its ops.

 

Oh okay.  We're arguing different, but similar points then. 

 

Right, Cincinnati is clearly important enough, sans Delta, that it wont be ignored. Hell, Akron-Canton is a focus airport of AirTran. But if Delta bails, I wouldn't expect a rush of carriers to establish a "hub" there. It takes time, and even LCC's are cautious of moving into new markets with the current market conditions.

Akron isn't a "focus city".  Regardless, I would think it will be a blip with the cuts that have already taken place and to come.

 

I know that, what I'm saying is that Akron-Canton isn't an airport that is served by AirTran to/from 1 "hub" destination. It believe it has 8 or 9 destinations? There's no real term for it so I used "focus city" just to make it simple. I guess the old SW mantra is the best: "all our destinations are hubs". Eh, but that's not the case with AirTran. Aw, hell, it's going off topic anyway.

 

Anyway, there's a while to go before AirTran comes to CVG, if ever.

My aunt recently flew out of Dayton. She bought tickets for 2 $245  round trip tickets to San Fransico. She got them 2 months ago. Now the same ticket cost over $500 each. So it's no longer cheaper to drive to other airports. You have to factor in the  gas to get the other airports and then your time.

 

Because of the bizarre pricing structure that airlines use, it's very common for seat prices to vary wildly.  I remember seeing an example of this on the news a few years ago, where 3 people in the same row on the same flight each had different ticket prices and the variance was almost $1000 between the cheapest and most expensive.

 

Also, you didn't reference what that flight would cost from CVG.  Dayton getting more expensive doesn't mean that CVG's prices are static.  I do A LOT of business travel, and routinely find that the flights out of Dayton and Louisville are several hundred dollars cheaper than CVG.

Delta to trim domestic flights from Atlanta

Flights cut include Atlanta-Leon, Mexico route and Atlanta to Ottawa

By KELLY YAMANOUCHI

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

 

Published on: 07/15/08

 

As Delta Air Lines cuts back flights to cope with high fuel costs, its largest hub in Atlanta won't be immune to the reductions.  Atlanta-based Delta is cutting about 6 percent of its domestic capacity out of Atlanta in September compared with a year earlier, part of a move to reduce domestic flight capacity by 13 percent across its system.

 

Among the cuts are international routes to Ottawa and Leon, Mexico. The elimination of the Atlanta-Leon route in August and the Atlanta-Ottawa route in September are part of Delta's decision to pull its service entirely from those cities and others.  The reduction in capacity will also mean fewer flights on routes from Atlanta to cities including Ontario, Calif.; Norfolk, Va.; Myrtle Beach, S.C. and Savannah.

 

Full story at http://www.ajc.com/hp/content/business/delta/stories/2008/07/15/atlanta_delta_cuts_domestic_flights.html

Flying by seat of your pants not as easy at local airport

Delta cuts mean 25% fewer seats at CVG, higher fares

Business Courier of Cincinnati - by Lisa Biank Fasig, Staff Reporter

Tuesday, August 19, 2008 - 8:50 AM

 

Delta Air Lines has dropped more than 130 domestic flights companywide in the past year – the most of any U.S. carrier – contributing to an additional 25 percent reduction in seats out of Greater Cincinnati this year as the airline focuses on building sales through global travel. 

 

The reduction, a cost-cutting endeavor designed to assure that all planes in the air are fully loaded, not only means higher fares, it could mean no fare at all for last-minute planners. It also means further reduced revenue for an airport that has already seen an $8 million decline in landing fees since late 2005.

 

The figures were revealed during a recent industry conference call with Darin Lee, head of the airline analysis group with the economic consulting firm LECG in Cambridge, Mass. In the presentation, Lee discussed the extent to which fuel prices and heightened competition by low-cost carriers have led major airlines to shift their focus to overseas travel, eliminating domestic destinations and reducing reliance on 50-seater jets, an aircraft that Comair happens to be pulling back from in favor of larger commuters.

 

Full story at http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2008/08/18/story8.html?b=1219032000%5E1684316

Delta shifts flights at CVG

By Alexander Coolidge

[email protected]

 

Delta Air Lines said today it will close its operations at Concourse C at the Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky International Airport in January.  The shift concentrates Delta’s local departures and arrivals into concourses A and B after years of cuts in the number of flights out of the Cincinnati airport. 

 

While the change is emblematic of Delta’s struggles to contain costs as jet fuel remains sky-high, the carrier noted it will end inconvenient shuttle rides by bus between Concourses B and C.  Delta disclosed this summer it would cut CVG’s fall schedule by about a quarter from fall 2007 to combat fuel prices that have doubled in the last year.

 

Delta officials said the switch won’t affect local Delta jobs.  Comair officials said the change would have minimal impact on its jobs.  Don Bornhorst, senior vice president of Delta Connection, which coordinates its regional feeder carriers including Erlanger-based Comair, said Delta remained committed to the local hub. Still, fuel costs have forced the carrier to eliminate unprofitable flights.

 

More at http://www.enquirer.com

Good thing they designed the new security building to have direct access to the ramp for the busses to send passengers to C concourse.  Now I hope Delta ditches the CVG hub!

Delta-Northwest merger approved Airline says deal will strengthen it against foreign competitors  

By KELLY YAMANOUCHI

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Wednesday, October 29, 2008 

 

Delta Air Lines has closed its merger with Northwest Airlines following the U.S. Department of Justice approval of the deal Wednesday, creating the world’s largest carrier.  The merger, announced in April, is essentially an acquisition of Northwest by Delta.  The combined carrier is called Delta and is based in Atlanta. Eagan, Minn.-based Northwest becomes a subsidiary of Delta.

 

Delta has said the merger will allow it to better compete with foreign airlines that are increasing service to the United States.  With Northwest, it adds one of the strongest U.S. carrier’s networks in Asia, and area where Delta had been lacking.

 

The combined airline has about 75,000 employees, serves 375 cities in 66 countries and about 170 million passengers a year.  It creates a company with a combined enterprise value of $17.7 billion, which expects to have annual revenue of $35 billion.  The new airline has domestic hubs in Atlanta, Minneapolis, Cincinnati, Salt Lake City, Detroit, Memphis and New York City, and international hubs in Amsterdam and Tokyo.

 

Full story at http://www.ajc.com/business/content/business/delta/stories/2008/10/29/delta_merger_approved.html

Delta hub staying, shrinking

Airline to cut flights; Comair to cut jobs

By James Pilcher • [email protected] • November 12, 2008

 

HEBRON - Delta Air Lines plans to cut 12 percent of its flying out of the Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky International Airport in January, but says it is restructuring the hub here to make it more profitable and therefore sustainable though at least next year.  Glen Hauenstein, Delta's executive vice president charged with meshing Delta's network with that of its new merger acquisition Northwest Airlines, said in an interview that the airline is committed to keeping a hub here through at least 2009.

 

"We really wanted to keep the hub there because of its location, layout and the great facilities, but it took us awhile to figure out how to do it," Hauenstein said.  "So Delta is now reaffirming its commitment to the Cincinnati hub through the summer season of next year and then we'll take another barometer reading on how the economy is doing.  This is the foundation to build upon, and I think the biggest (profit) improvement in all of Delta next year is going to be Cincinnati."

 

The new plan calls for ending service to only one city and trimming about 40 flights a day at CVG.  The 263 flights remaining flights, however, will be bunched more closely together as the airline synchronizes its schedules among its other six hubs nationally.

 

Full story at http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20081112/BIZ01/311120021/1076/NEWS

Here is a graph I found and edited given the numbers for the new cuts dated 2002-2009:

 

 

 

Source:  http://www.transtats.bts.gov

 

I don't think Memphis, CVG or Minn will be hubs after 2009.

 

I have a feeling they will be reduced to "focus cities"

Interesting that "other" has increased not only in percentage (200%+) due to Delta/Comair cutbacks, but also by 2,653 actual flights.  I hope that trend continues.

I think it depends on oil prices and economic conditions. If oil stays below 100 bucks and the economy doesn't drop off the cliff, the CVG may be alright. If things take another cycle down then I'd agree it will go to a focus city quickly.

I think it depends on oil prices and economic conditions. If oil stays below 100 bucks and the economy doesn't drop off the cliff, the CVG may be alright. If things take another cycle down then I'd agree it will go to a focus city quickly.

 

Even if oil stays low, and I doubt that.  SIX domestic hubs is way to many.

They might be waiting to see what happens ot the big 3 in Detroit.  If they go under, CVg might be an attractive Hub and Detroit would become a focus city.

They might be waiting to see what happens ot the big 3 in Detroit.  If they go under, CVg might be an attractive Hub and Detroit would become a focus city.

 

As much money as DTW/NW put into making that airport a global gateway, I would find that hard to believe it would be reduced to a focus city. 

 

DTW is still at top 10 airport and has direct non stop service to many international destinations.

 

I can't say for sure, but its one of the best state-of-the-art airports to be built and to toss it would be a super bad management decision.  Reallocating the equipment and personell would be a logistic and financial nightmare.  On top of that you're paying for a relatively new terminal.

 

.....yet stranger things have happened.

Delta owns its terminal at CVG not that has stopped anyone before. I do think DTW without the Big 3 would be hard pressed to maintain its near equal status to ATL. I agree six is too many.

No Delta overseas expansion at CVG

By James Pilcher • [email protected] • November 12, 2008

 

Delta Air Lines Wednesday unveiled its overall network strategy, vowing to use its combined power with new merger acquisition Northwest Airlines to make the world’s newest No. 1 airline even more international in scope.  Its hub at the Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky International Airport won’t get any additional international routes, and could lose its summertime flight to Rome in the shuffling, but will see increased flying to the combined airline’s six other hubs.  It also lost out on a new hoped-for direct flight to Tokyo to the Delta hub in Salt Lake City.

 

The news comes after the Atlanta-based carrier disclosed it was cutting 12 percent of local flying but restructuring the hub to make it more sustainable in the long run.  Hauenstein also clarified his statements about the future of the local operation, saying that the airline is committed to the hub “in perpetuity” and that only service levels and not the overall hub operations would be evaluated after next summer.

 

Delta employs about 2,500 locally, with its Erlanger-based regional subsidiary Comair employing another 3,100 locally. Comair has announced that it is laying off 150 pilots due to the local

 

Full story at http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20081112/BIZ01/311120028/1076/NEWS

I have to say the CVG hub is on the chopping block, just like STL and PIT before it.

 

Detroit is a metro of 5.5 million with air traffic demand that drawfs Cincinnati.  Cincinnati probably has the lowest O&D of any hub out there, probably due to its extremely high fares.  There's no real demand for air service levels in CVG above those provided to IND and CMH.  CVG is one of the smallest market hubs in America and lack the geographic characteristics of other small market hubs like SLC or DEN.

 

I think it is only a matter of time before CVG shrinks to focus city status.  That won't necessarily be a bad thing.

 

I think it is only a matter of time before CVG shrinks to focus city status.  That won't necessarily be a bad thing.

 

Aside from SW and other fellow low-fare carriers being able to set up at CVG, how can losing a hub of one of the world's largest airlines NOT be a bad thing?  Certainly it's not the end of the world for greater Cincy but it's NOT a good thing! 

 

 

I have to say the CVG hub is on the chopping block, just like STL and PIT before it.

 

Detroit is a metro of 5.5 million with air traffic demand that drawfs Cincinnati. Cincinnati probably has the lowest O&D of any hub out there, probably due to its extremely high fares. There's no real demand for air service levels in CVG above those provided to IND and CMH. CVG is one of the smallest market hubs in America and lack the geographic characteristics of other small market hubs like SLC or DEN.

 

I think it is only a matter of time before CVG shrinks to focus city status. That won't necessarily be a bad thing.

 

 

If the Big Three all fail, Detroit may not have a large population.  It would be like Katrina hitting New Orleans.  All the Big Three corporate employees, factories, and their suppliers in the Detroit metro area would be impacted.  This would then impact every other industry in the metro.  Imagine any city in Ohio losing is 3 largest employers.

 

Granted this hasn't happened and I hope it doesn't.  But something that big could impact where Delta keeps its hubs. 

I'm not sure it is a good thing, but I don't think it has to be a particularly bad one either.  The CVG hub has not helped Cincy grow faster than Indy or Columbus or Kansas City.  For every loss from a direct Paris flight, you gain in everyone else's lower fares.  I think it could end up as a wash.

 

Detroit is not going to be a Cincy class sized city any time soon.  Detroit also has some of the absolute best facilities of any airport in the country.  They have the brand new WorldPort and the brand new North Terminal.  The "Aerotopolis" strategy has the airport being the centerpiece of the area's future economic growth.  I think DTW is just fine, though obviously the Detroit region is a complete basket case right now.

 

CVG's facilities aren't anything to scoff at either.  I don't know much about this particular kind of stuff, but I would imagine corporate clients would weigh heavier than total traffic to airlines.  Cincinnati has a ton of corporate clients here and I don't see the many Fortune 500 companies simply lying down when it comes to a hub status.  I think that they are ultimately the ones who will dictate what happens.  If Detroit loses the Big 3, then their clout shrinks significantly.

CVG's facilities aren't anything to scoff at either.  I don't know much about this particular kind of stuff, but I would imagine corporate clients would weigh heavier than total traffic to airlines.  Cincinnati has a ton of corporate clients here and I don't see the many Fortune 500 companies simply lying down when it comes to a hub status.  I think that they are ultimately the ones who will dictate what happens.  If Detroit loses the Big 3, then their clout shrinks significantly.

I'm not taking anything away from any other airport, however The NW Worldgate is the newest and I would argue the best and most efficient terminal complex in the country.  CVG pales in comparison to DTW or Denver.

 

The operations infrastructure alone is massive.  The hub itself is profitable.  DTW is the 11 busiest airport compared to CVG at 24.  Per the FAA, DTW does almost twice as much movement.

 

What company can dictate the operations and management of another?  Thats like AMC tell us what movies we can make and distribute.

 

Regional Cinci company's might be upset, but I honestly cannot see Kroger or Macy's saying to Delta "you can't close this hub".  This is not a decision based on a one dimensional perspective.  The concession would most likely be keeping profitable business routes and connections to other hubs and eliminating leisure travel and unprofitable routes.  It will hurt Cinci/SW ohio to lose hub "status" but if the hub is not profitable, or the company has new strategic outlook you do whats best for your company.

 

Even if the auto and related business take a hit, that does not translate into the DTW being unprofitable as a hub.  The majority of flights are not O&D.  There has already been traction in the DTW market as some international airlines (BA for one) have pulled out on routes.  Thus making the NW menu of TATL flights that much more profitable.

 

CVG's O&D traffic is anemic.  If the corporate community of Cincinnati wants to save the hub, they should do what the corporate community of Minneapolis has done: buy lots of airplane tickets.  I believe about 45% of MSP's traffic is O&D.  There are precedents for corporate subsidies (such as the Pfizer subside for London service from RDU), but in this economy and industry, industrial logic is going to come first.