November 20, 200618 yr Moscows subway stations are the most beautiful I have ever seen! Hell that looks similar to my commute everyday to either, Columbus Circle, Rock Center or 42 Street. The 1 subway platform at Columbus Circle is a mess. Granted, I haven't seen the platforms that bad since the blackout. 59 Street (uptown 1 train platform) 42 Street/Times Square(uptown 2/3 platform)
November 20, 200618 yr Yeah, what? That's a subway station? It looks like a freakin opera house! I've never experienced anything even close to that crowd in transit. I'm surprised they let it get to that point. When I lived in London, during rush hour, they would set up lines at different points both inside and outside of the station. Sometimes they went up to street level. They'd count the number of people they'd let in as each train came through. The trains were literally coming one after the other into the station (Victoria). Those platforms were tiny, compared to NYC, and if they'd allowed a traffic buildup like the ones in that video, people'd be pushed onto the tracks in a second. Crazy!
November 20, 200618 yr Yeah, what? That's a subway station? It looks like a freakin opera house! They'd count the number of people they'd let in as each train came through. The trains were literally coming one after the other into the station (Victoria). Those platforms were tiny, compared to NYC, and if they'd allowed a traffic buildup like the ones in that video, people'd be pushed onto the tracks in a second. Crazy! I totally agree....Victoria Station is the worst. Those tube stations are old and some of those platforms feel like they are two inches wide!
November 20, 200618 yr That video is the only commute I can imagine being worse than being stuck in traffic...
November 20, 200618 yr I had experienced a crowd like that in 1975, just after the first energy crisis and after RTA had started up. RTA had cut fares to 35 cents to reintroduce people to transit. Just before Christmas, I went downtown on the Rapid with my family to visit the stores along Euclid Avenue (Higbee's, May Co., Arcade, etc.). After we were done shopping, we followed a large, continuous stream of people flowing into Terminal Tower from Public Square. The crowd got heavier as we made our down the curving ramps. Down on the CTS rapid station platform (we were heading to East Cleveland), it was wall-to-wall people with the crowd pushing people farther into the platform and into a denser pack. My father held onto me to keep us from getting separated, especially when a train pulled in and opened its doors. As an 8-year-old, you had no control over which way you were going to go. It both scary and exhilirating at the same time. The only other time I saw Tower City Center station anywhere near that crowded was in 1996 after the fireworks show was done in the Flats for the city's 200th anniversary. But I also remember there being some open floor space in the station where there weren't any people standing and waiting. In 1975, there was no room anywhere! So, yes, I've seen that kind of crowd before. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 20, 200618 yr I haven't seen Cleveland's Rapid stations that crowded, but I remember some extremely packed trains years ago. In 1979 I went downtown with a then-new, now-longtime-ex bf to see the St. Patrick's Day parade. After the parade, the trains leaving Terminal Tower were more than packed; they were more like compressed. When we got to our stop at W. 117th Street, we couldn't get to the door, and we had to ride to Brookpark before we could get off the train and catch an inbound back to W. 117th.
November 20, 200618 yr Well at least at that point in time, you Red Line riders had SPACE and your trains didn't break down. The Shaker cars, although frequent...were like sardine cans. They had No A/C in summer and the barely any heat in winter as it escaped through those paper thin windows and you guys had a real "terminal/station" us folks on the Shaker line had a wood floor! The City Trains also had escalators, we had to walk up those damn stairs Ahh the simple days!
November 21, 200618 yr I lived in Highland Heights in those days, and it was simply called the CTS (Cleveland Transit System) Rapid. That was to differentiate it from the Rapid lines owned and operated by City of Shaker Heights. So, when I rode the CTS Rapid, and the train reached top speed, the wind whistled through the doors loudly. And when you got up to leave the train, you found that the wind had drifted a nice little pile of snow by the door. Even when it didn't compress into ice, it was awfully slippery and those who weren't careful might slip and fall. Or, worse, they could slip and drop a leg between the train and station platform! Ahh, yes, the simple days.... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 21, 200618 yr I lived in Highland Heights in those days, and it was simply called the CTS (Cleveland Transit System) Rapid. That was to differentiate it from the Rapid lines owned and operated by City of Shaker Heights. So, when I rode the CTS Rapid, and the train reached top speed, the wind whistled through the doors loudly. And when you got up to leave the train, you found that the wind had drifted a nice little pile of snow by the door. Even when it didn't compress into ice, it was awfully slippery and those who weren't careful might slip and fall. Or, worse, they could slip and drop a leg between the train and station platform! Ahh, yes, the simple days.... Well back in the day we always called the trains "the shaker trains (van aken or shaker) or CTS trains the "City Train". the pre Blue/Green/Red days. The shaker trains were so shady that if you stood in the rear door way and "leaned" on the door - you might actually fall out! LMAO! If the shaker trains went to fast, people would be affraid they might not stop and the back window would always fall down! LOL My biggest pet peeves with the new lines, is the elimination of the "express" train & the "square to square" service. Although with some big events they do occasionally have "special" square to square service. This picture of the old union terminal and five car trains. http://www.robertpence.com/cleveland_1978-2003.html Look how crappy the shaker station was and that god awful littel both that you would pay your fare. http://www.robertpence.com/cleveland_1978-2003/shaker_rapid_term_tower_1979.jpg I love these pics of the old trains. I slightly make out my apartment building in one. http://www.pccmph.com/cts.html
November 21, 200618 yr ... This picture of the old union terminal and five car trains ... MTS, I was about to pull up some of those images from my site to illustrate your comments, but you beat me to it. The Shaker Rapid was pretty archaic in those days, but it was sort of a treat for trolley enthusiasts, too. It was one of the last U.S. holdouts for unmodified PCC cars, along with Pittsburgh, and the private right-of-way provided a place where the cars could show what they were capable of. I was impressed with the surge of power they'd put on when coming up out of the Termnal Tower station headed for Shaker Square, and sometimes they could really get rolling, too. It was the transportation of choice for fashionable folk ...
November 21, 200618 yr It might have been a treat for "enthusiast" but you all weren't freezing your culo's off in winter and baking in summer! lol Yeah, that "push" out of TowerCity does show the power of the PCC cars and current light rail. IIRC, the current equipment can get up to 70 MPH and prior to RTA installing that distance system (on the shared track), they could really pick up speed from 55 to 79 sts, then between 93 and SS those puppies can really go.
November 22, 200618 yr I guess you could say that rail transit does not necessarily solve congestion.
November 22, 200618 yr I guess you could say that rail transit does not necessarily solve congestion. In a way, congested transit would be a problem some systems would envy. It's important to deal with it, though, because where people have alternatives it's a disincentive to use it. South Shore hopes to add 14 new cars, bi-level, I think, to enable them to add two more trains to rush-hour service. They're much needed because existing rush-hour service is almost always standing-room-only over at least the western half of the line. Some people may find that tolerable for a short ride, but when it's 45 minutes or an hour, it probably keeps some commuters in their cars.
November 22, 200618 yr I've never liked the argument that rail eases congestion. How? Any cars taken off the roads will be replaced by new traffic in the near future. That's true if rail transit is built or more highway lanes are added. The lanes become as congested within five years as the pre-widened road (if I'm remembering correctly what recent analyses had shown). If a highway or a rail line is well-designed and offers supportive land uses, it will become crowded. It ultimately is a value judgment of elected officials as to where they want their crowds to be -- on the trains and city sidewalks, or on the roads and parking lots. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
Create an account or sign in to comment