No, no nasty surgery photos or anything like that. I was taking photos for a work-related project and took a few extra shots. For being a truly world-class facility when it comes to healthcare, the Cleveland Clinic's built environment and surrounding neighborhood are really atrocious. I don't always take photos of the pretty stuff and this thread will fill my quota for a while.

 

The Intercontinental Hotel - a lovely hotel, but why the useless treelawn on Carnegie? Is that supposed to be "greenspace"?

 

A bustling retail strip? Errr...

 

Someone, please explain this to me:

 

The tower of St. Lukes Hospital, now site of a large residential development:

 

I'm not seeing spinoff/ripple effect economics happening here:

 

Does anyone know what church this is?

 

One redeeming structure in this mess:

 

The beautiful University Club building, surrounded by crap.

 

A water treatment plant - I'll remember the name some other time.

 

I'm not the least bit religious but I find a lot of irony in this church - gated parking, and even the front door is gated. I see it's not just the Clinic that has a bunker mentality in this neighborhood:

 

At some point this area had buildings on it:

 

 

Nice and inviting environment you got there!

 

The Cleveland Play House - the newer portion was designed by Philip Johnson:

 

The construction site on the left of this photo is the future site of an 11-story parking garage - aka another lovely vantage point to take photos of downtown!

 

Hope you enjoyed, I personally threw up in my mouth just a little bit.

 

 

I got some of that bile too...

 

We're working on finding a new use for the Tudor Arms (the beautiful old hotel at Stokes & Carnegie).  I think everyone would like to see it either returned to a hotel use or perhaps a combination of hotel and residential.  Stokes has so many of these beautiful old gems along it!

 

As for the other beautiful old structure on Carnegie, it used to belong to the Ohio College of Podiatric Medicine, but they're moving to the 'burbs and the Clinic has purchased the building and surrounding lots.  If they try to knock it down... grrr...

Could there BE anymore parking?

Oh yeah, I forgot -- YES! To the tune of a $170 million garage!

The church...

 

That is St. Elizabeth Magyar Roman Catholic Church. It is a national historic landmark.

it's a Cleveland Landmark

 

Here are some additional photos...although they not MayDay quality photos, you get the picture.  HA!

 

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/landmark/listDetail.php?identity=7

Ugh, that's a downer.  What a remarkably unremarkable campus for an institution of such high stature.  Thanks for the visual, MayDay. 

 

My biggest pet peeve, other than the surface parking, is site planning for Cole Eye Institute which floats in the middle of the large block on the south side of Euclid between E100 and E105.   Man I hope the useless lawns on eastern and western edge are slated for future construction.

 

By the way, the church in your 6th photo is St. Elizabeth's Hungarian Catholic church on lower Buckeye [Thunder stolen by Wimwar I now see] (it's pretty much the only vestige left of the old neighborhood on that stretch of Buckeye since the old Weizer Block was torn down 10 years ago or so) and the Be-Uti-I-Ful water treatment plant is the Baldwin water filtration plant or something or other.  At one time (according to legend, and other sources I am too lazy to re-find), it's interior held the largest interior reservoir on earth and I believe was featured in engineering and architecture magazines.  A very cool facility.

 

 

I am pretty sure this area is going to be the home of Star Research Building. It was approved by the Planning Commission almost a year ago.

It was also the first meeting I reported on here (http://clevelandplanner.blogspot.com/2005/12/opportunity-cost-or-opportunity-lost.html).

Not my first meeting, I have been going to them semi-regularly for about three years now

 

 

Star Research Building (conceptual approval)

This new 5-story building will be located on near East 100th Street and Cedar Avenue. This will be the first new construction on the south side of Cedar in many years. The proposed research center will not be a project of the Cleveland Clinic but may be used by some of the Clinic’s researchers. The building is being designed by Westlake, Reed & Leskowsky. APPROVED

 

I also reported about it in February of this year (http://clevelandplanner.blogspot.com/2006_02_01_clevelandplanner_archive.html) - toward the bottom

 

Mandatory Referral

Ordinance #119-06: The sale of Land Reutilization Program property located on Cedar Avenue, between East 100th and 101st Streets to Fairfax Renaissance Development Corporation. This land is for the Star Research Building that was conceptually approved by the commission last December. It was noted the Cleveland Clinic is still not on board with the developer; however, they said they do not need the Clinic in order to move forward. Good news.

the sad part about this, is some of these home have good bones and if the clinic/univ. circle acted as a partner in the 'hood.  It wouldn't seem so blighted and you wouldn't have this "invisible wall/barrier"

MayDay does ghetto...from above!

Yeah, well - being yo yo hardcore you know the score y'know!

That was racist.

I'm MayDay, not Kramer and you can check my dating history to see just how racist I am :-D

I'm MayDay, not Kramer and you can check my dating history to see just how racist I am :-D

 

Welcome to UrbanOhio SmackDown!

 

In this corner you have HBIC, in the opposite corner you have the HNIC.

 

Gentleman I want a clean sarcastic fight.  Anything goes....and may the best HEAD win! :-o

 

Sidebar:  I'd like to see your dating history as you've willingly offered as evidence.

I guess it's true.  You can't teach an old dog new tricks.

And please God, no.  NO DATING HISTORY RANTS.  This thread is about undesirable Cleveland areas...not about MayDay's sexfests.

Take away the state-of-the-art hospital, burn a few more buildings and you've basically got Detroit. Interesting pics.

Actually, Detroit does have state-of-the-art hospitals in their Midtown area.  So really, Midtown Detroit = University Circle/"Midtown" Cleveland?

 

Mayday, you’ve hit on some interesting points.  Your thread hits on precisely why I don’t get excited about hospitals and expansion.  Simply put, high profile hospitals like CC are about 2 things: research and death.  They are cold institutional structures that, unless coordinated with spin-off industry - for which Cleveland lags viz it’s mega hospitals - there’s no reason to go there unless you’re a doctor, patient or family of a patient. 

 

Midtown and Fairfax, where most of your nabe shots are from, have pockets of promise: Karumu Theatre, the Cleveland Playhouse, being among them (the Baldwin filtration plant is the name that escaped you). But overall, the isolation and deterioration of this neighborhood stem largely from our historical failure to build quality rail transit to this area and present a challenge to that supposed Mid-town, rubber tired transit Messiah: ECP.  Cleveland, more than practically any city, has trashed and abandoned its high density inner and mid-city nabes along its main corridor - even Detroit still has more apartment, retail and education density up its Woodward corridor than we do and a big reason why Detroit is experiencing a stronger renaissance up its spin than are we.  [as to ColDay's comment, Detroit is different since New Center, its hospital/university/arts district -- is more compact and closer to downtown than U. Circle -- Detroit's midtown-ish blight area more to the north and east of New Center, as opposed to separating its cultural district from downtown, as is the case in Cleveland]

 

There are a lot of great things about Cleveland, obviously, but our absolute neglect of this core area, in addition to our awful lakefront, isn’t among them.

 

It's always shocked me how the Cleveland Clinic, despite its density of development, has done everything possible to function inward in so many respects. And visually speaking, every time I'm on Carnegie Avenue, I feel like I'm on a bobsled and the Clinic's large, icy buildings are like the track's walls. Or maybe "gauntlet" is a better metaphor?

 

And even this beauty (below) of a building has been "clinicked" -- note the street-facing retail spaces have been bricked up or otherwise covered. Seems the owners of this building have been taking notes from the Clinic on how to make sidewalks as barren as possible.

 

I'll be very curious to see what Peter Walker comes up with for the Clinic's campus. He's supposedly one of the most expensive LAs out there. 

Take away the state-of-the-art hospital, burn a few more buildings and you've basically got Detroit. Interesting pics.

 

great, fairfax is lecturing detroit now?

Payne-Sterling as well!

The neighborhood around the Clinic is quite scary...  definately no economic ripple there.  Hell, the East side between Cleveland State and the Case Western is scary.

The neighborhood around the Clinic is quite scary...  definately no economic ripple there.  Hell, the East side between Cleveland State and the Case Western is scary.

 

Thats a serious statement.  When is the last time that you have spent some serious time in any of the neighborhods between CSU and Case?  I myself, don't know that great a deal about the area, but not all those areas are scary.

 

My cousin is in the process of buying a home in the 30s.  He says there is a ton of development, as well as planned development, in the area and that is an impressive statement for someone who has always stated he would never live in the city of Clevleand.

30's on the turn around, the rest of eastside outside little italy area not so much.

After reading things here.  I visited ChinaTown/Far East.  The central area.  Even that new Walker reno building and the prospect area. I visited some people in the 70s, near Chester and there a quite a few people I know from the the suburbs that have moved into that area.

 

I left Cleveland and have rarely come home, when I have I rarely spent time in the city.

 

Cleveland today - looks (to me) vastly improved compared to when I left.

 

There is A LOT to be done, but to make a blanket statement that all the people that live on the east side, have no pride in their homes or live in dilapated properties isn't fair.  I think those types of statement, continue to feed, the idea that Cleveland isn't safe or nothing is being done to improve those areas.  I well removed from Cleveland and this site has reintroduced me to many things I took for granted.

 

30's on the turn around, the rest of eastside outside little italy area not so much.

 

Sounds like something I would expect the to read in the Plain Dealer.  I wonder what the people in Shaker Buckeye/Fairhill or Forest Hills think about that?  This area is even more beautiful today than I remember.

 

Just so that I can understand where people are coming from, does anyone making these statements live, spend any significant time in or work in any of these areas?

I say the worst parts of the east side are Fairfax and southern Hough. That area is filled with vacant lots and homes that have been left to rot. However there is plenty of new housing (albeit mostly vinyl sided) going up in fairfax. What about Beacon Place? And when the Euclid Corridor is finally finished we should see some new development. Rysar properties (local development company) has some big plans for new residences in this area.

 

Next to Hough the next most rundown area is the forgotten triangle area around Kinsman, Buckeye, Woodland down to miles. that area is rough and parts remind me of rural Alabama. the rest of the east side is not overly rundown. The Mt Pleasant, Forest Hills, Glenville, Collinwood and shaker square areas all of some beatiful homes. Sure there are some that are rundown, but its not like Hough and Fairfax. Glennville is seeing new investment and restoration of its beautiful homes, as well as new condos and townhomes planned. The Lee-Harvard area has nice bungaloes and ranches from the 1940's and 50's that are not at all rundown, but crime in the area is an issue. North Collinwood also has some nice neighborhoods with lake homes and apartments. There areplans for revitalizing Kinsman in council man Reed's ward to include many new black and locally owned businesses. So to say Little Italy is the only place development is happening is a tad ignorant.

It bugs me greatly that the areas we're speaking of, near such a center of employment, can't be turned into a more attractive residential market for the employees of the Clinic.  How many people work at the Clinic (obtainable numbers) compared to the number who actually live in any of the numerous neighborhoods that are 5-8 minute car or bus rides away?  Being right between the Clinic and Downtown, by rights there is no way Hough and Fairfax and the like should be in the states they are in.  I hope against hope that the ECP, which I think (interestingly) bisects the two neighborhoods, ends up being more than just a pretty bus line with landscaping and acts as a catalyst for the area.

All I know is that I have friends who live in University Heights and Cleveland Heights, and we go downtown often.  Whenever travelling down Carnegie, Euclid, Chester, or whatever, the area between CSU and Case doesn't look like a place I'd walk around alone at night in.  Now I don't delve deeply into these neighborhoods to see if there is pockets of redevelopment, but on a whole, the environment is not very inviting. 

St. Clair!

St. Clair!

 

*Fist thump*

 

I went on a photo spree one day a couple months ago and came out with maybe 1 shot I liked, along St. Clair just west of E. 55th:

 

 

All I know is that I have friends who live in University Heights and Cleveland Heights, and we go downtown often.  Whenever travelling down Carnegie, Euclid, Chester, or whatever, the area between CSU and Case doesn't look like a place I'd walk around alone at night in.  Now I don't delve deeply into these neighborhoods to see if there is pockets of redevelopment, but on a whole, the environment is not very inviting. 

 

Thats vastly different than what you stated before. 

 

So can I ask why it isn't inviting to you?

 

There are quite a few people on this board who live in the 30s/40s.

 

Now why WON'T you go into a the neighborhood?  Fear of the unknown?  Perceptions? Scared of going into what is viewed as a black neighborhood?

^Don't push the race card.  It's probably due to it actually having the appearance of being "rundown."

^Don't push the race card.  It's probably due to it actually having the appearance of being "rundown."

 

I wasn't pushing the race card.  Perceptions are very strong.

MyTwoSense, it might help your argument if you didn't fly off the handle every time someone dares to suggest that a particular neighborhood might have issues with crime/safety/blight/etc. Sure, someone might troll a thread and say something foolish like "all of the east side of Cleveland is a dump", but LAsam commented on his own observations and personal experiences. He didn't say all the residents of Cleveland between Case and CSU were crackheads, crackhos, or deadbeats, did he? What he did offer was a chance for you (and other forumers) to educate him on 1. redevelopment efforts, 2. the differences between perception and reality, 3. what improvements still need to be made.

 

I've been through the Kimmelbrook Homes in Youngstown, Talbot Avenue in Akron, countless dicey areas in Cleveland, Bed-Stuy and Bushwick in Brooklyn (LONG before any gentrification came along), etc. No, I never lived there but I spent enough time in each place to get a good feel for how things were. Though I came out unscathed, I didn't always feel very safe - and statistically, those areas weren't the safest, the infrastructure was usually blighted, and (gasp!) - there were people of other races who happened to live there. Now - does my not feeling safe in those places make me a racist, or am I simply telling you what I observed? 

All I know is that I have friends who live in University Heights and Cleveland Heights, and we go downtown often.  Whenever travelling down Carnegie, Euclid, Chester, or whatever, the area between CSU and Case doesn't look like a place I'd walk around alone at night in.  Now I don't delve deeply into these neighborhoods to see if there is pockets of redevelopment, but on a whole, the environment is not very inviting. 

 

I agree that stretch along Hough, Euclid, Carnegie and Cedar looks terrible. The developments though, aside from Beacon place and those oddly placed Mcmansions, are on the side streets and spreading out. In the 40's along Cedar there are new townhomes being built and single family homes. Along Quincy and its side streets there is also considerable new homes finished and under construction. But you won't see this construction from the main Avenues. I'd like to see some high density highrise residential along these Avenues with retail on the ground Floor (I know the new zoning overlay requires this along Euclid and Chester or Carnegie) The street Layout between Hough and Central is like Manhattan with the major Avenues being closely spaced compared to other parts of the city, so I think this could really be a great area. I think the ECP needs to be completed and the political leaders and members of this community need to get together and market this area to potential residents and developers and banks.

MyTwoSense, it might help your argument if you didn't fly off the handle every time someone dares to suggest that a particular neighborhood might have issues with crime/safety/blight/etc. Sure, someone might troll a thread and say something foolish like "all of the east side of Cleveland is a dump", but LAsam commented on his own observations and personal experiences. He didn't say all the residents of Cleveland between Case and CSU were crackheads, crackhos, or deadbeats, did he? What he did offer was a chance for you (and other forumers) to educate him on 1. redevelopment efforts, 2. the differences between perception and reality, 3. what improvements still need to be made.

 

I've been through the Kimmelbrook Homes in Youngstown, Talbot Avenue in Akron, countless dicey areas in Cleveland, Bed-Stuy and Bushwick in Brooklyn (LONG before any gentrification came along), etc. No, I never lived there but I spent enough time in each place to get a good feel for how things were. Though I came out unscathed, I didn't always feel very safe - and statistically, those areas weren't the safest, the infrastructure was usually blighted, and (gasp!) - there were people of other races who happened to live there. Now - does my not feeling safe in those places make me a racist, or am I simply telling you what I observed? 

 

Diva.  I wasn't flying off the handle.  However, you for one have taken the opportunity to visit said area's instead of relying on "hear say" or base your facts/comments on perceptions.

Now I don't delve deeply into these neighborhoods to see if there is pockets of redevelopment, but on a whole, the environment is not very inviting. 

 

You went out and experienced it first hand.  You didn't react off of "perception".

 

By the way....who do you fear?  Don't the minion's know your HBIC?

Honestly my perceptions come from seeing the quantity of vacancies along the main drags, the dilapidated state of many of the buildings, the massive abandoned factories littering the area, and from the stories my friends from Cleveland tell me about the shootings/gang activity in the area. 

Honestly my perceptions come from seeing the quantity of vacancies along the main drags, the dilapidated state of many of the buildings, the massive abandoned factories littering the area, and from the stories my friends from Cleveland tell me about the shootings/gang activity in the area. 

 

lawd

I dunno... I don't think Hough looks all that bad anymore -- except for the suburban-style homes that litter the area. I feel fairly safe on Hough, except for the section between Crawford and the old VA. I also feel pretty safe along Euclid and Chester from East 79th eastward.

 

I don't consider the areas from downtown east to University Circle to suffer the worst parts anymore. From my travels, the dangerous areas have moved east and south along Kinsman, and northeast to the Cleveland-East Cleveland border to Hayden Ave. and beyond.

You have to remember that local perception is different from general perspective.  For me, Over-the-Rhine isn't really THAT bad but to, say MayDay, it's the Third World with Italianate.  For me, west Dayton isn't too bad (like it used to be) but to JoeSuburb, it may as well be Camden.  So while Hough or whatever may not look bad to someone from that area who's seen it through hell and back (or still hell), to an outsider, it looks like Highland Park, Michigan (minus the Arabesque commercial buildings).

True, all perceptions are relative to your experience.

I agree with CDM completely! I live and work in the city...and the areas mentioned above are in no way Shaker Square/Edgewater/West Park.  There are some pretty dicey areas even though there have been some improvements.  As mentiooned earlier, the "forgotten triangle" (Woodland/Buckeye/Kinsman area) and the Fairfax area (E 79th/Cedar) are some of the most abandonded areas in the city.  Empty houses, lots, and buildings/factories...I too have likened it to rural Alabama.  Not saying that there hasn't been SOME redevelopement..but overall, you wouldn't find me going for a jog in that area at night OR the day.  I can completely understand the perception that LAsam has.  I guess for those that live in some of the areas mentioned, they DO see the progress.  For me, I see the shittiest of the areas because rarely am I called to the nicer parts.  As for an outsider, I can completely understand the perceptions of the area.  Even from the main drag, it can seem a little intimidating to an outsider. 

^Or to sum it up, it's trash with a Rally's.

I think you just repeated yourself

I think it needed to be repeated.

CDM,

 

I pretty much agree with you save for one thing--Highland Park is on another level when compared to Hough. 

 

 

 

 

Well, Highland Park is its own entity, thus the library, city hall, services, etc "suck" compared to Hough.  I would say visually, though, I honestly don't see a difference (though Highland Park housing is typically more brick; Hough is more wood-frame).

^I worked a half mile from Highland Park and coordinated some projects in the area. I know it about as well as I know Hough.  I also 'knew' HP before getting to know Hough.

 

Still, they are both sad places with interesting histories.

 

 

Still, they are both sad places with interesting histories.

 

Yup.