Comfortable in NY, but not downtown Cincinnati

 

We visited all the holiday villages at Pogue's, Shillito's, Mabley & Carew, and McAlpin's. We went to Polly Flinders and the train display at CG&E. Before we went home, we stopped at Graeter's for ice cream.

 

I moved to Long Island in 1990, and returned "home" in November 2001. I couldn't wait to bring my husband downtown after Thanksgiving. Unfortunately, all that was left then was the train display and Graeter's (of course, Graeter's is gone now). The department stores I used to visit as a child are all gone, and there is only one holiday display at Tower Place. During our visit, the streets were deserted, we were very uneasy and cut our visit short.

 

I've worked in Cincinnati for five years now, first at Fifth and Sycamore and now at Third and Walnut. In that time, I've learned that there is no point in coming downtown on the weekend, unless I absolutely have to. I've learned to never stop to talk to a stranger - always keep moving. I've learned that if I'm going to give something to a homeless person, be sure to do so with a fast, clear exit.

 

With my friends, I've often tried to put into words the difference between being in New York City (where I am perfectly comfortable walking alone at 2 a.m.) and being in Cincinnati (where I am uneasy at 7 p.m.). I think I've finally found the words:

 

Cincinnati was the Queen City. There was so much to do at any given time. In my absence, Cincinnati traded places with Newport. When I moved away, Newport was the town to avoid, and Cincinnati was the place to be. In New York, you see police walking the streets and interacting with people. I don't recall ever seeing an officer during my work week. I recall seeing one on horseback when I went to the Aronoff three years ago. Yes, the streets are crowded in New York. Yes, there are homeless people. There are also many shelters (an idea for all these empty buildings in Cincinnati, perhaps?) and the police presence keeps harassment to a minimum.

 

One recent morning downtown, I saw two boys horseplaying. One of them pushed the other into an older gentleman. He moved away from them, and they continued their horseplay. Perhaps a police presence would curb some of this activity? I'm not talking about police harassment, I'm talking about police becoming a part of the community again: Making their presence known and helping everyone in need. Perhaps a police presence would make downtown a bit more enjoyable. New York has the police presence, and that presence makes people comfortable. Comfortable people stay longer and spend money, and the economy thrives. It will be difficult to enjoy the new restaurants and big screen TV on top of Macy's if we don't feel safe enough to stick around after 5 p.m. and to come visit on weekends.

 

Dawn Morel-Pupino lives on Loda Drive in Withamsville

 

http://news.communitypress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061124/EDIT/611240339/1061/Local

In that time, I've learned that there is no point in coming downtown on the weekend, unless I absolutely have to.

 

Thats a funny observation as I was in downtown Cincinnati for a good part of the afternoon today (on a weekend), and was thinking how great it was to have a downtown nearby where you know you're downtown, one that still as a fair amount of people using it on a Saturday during the day.

 

Of course this writer works downtown, so probably wouldn't find going back downtown on a weekend something special to do.

Warning:  Ranting follows:

 

First of all, I want to start by saying that everyone is entitled to their opinion, and had every right to express it.  However, I have to say I don't really get what they the author is trying to say.

 

As a part time resident of downtown Cincinnati, the majority of my time here is during the week ends. When I'm in town, I tend to spend a non-trivial amount of my time in the central business district (almost always on foot) during daylight, evening, and late night hours.  I usually walk within a block of both of the downtown working locations cited by the author at least twice a day, either during the day or night. I suspect that in my last 12 months as a part time resident, I've spent more time in Cincinnati after 5:00 pm than the author has since here return in 2001.

 

I've been fortunate enough to be a frequent visitor to many large cities around the world (including New York), and usually stay in downtown locations within each city.

 

So what's my point?

 

I can honestly say that I feel no less safe (or more for that matter) walking around downtown Cincinnati than in any other typical downtown city location.

 

We all know that downtown isn't what it used to be.  Before I could drive, I would come downtown from Northern Kentucky on TANK back when the end of the line was in the downstairs of the Dixie Terminal.  Pogues, McAlpins, and Shilitos were in full swing. West 4th street was packed with art galleries, and there were several movie theaters scattered around downtown.

 

However, very few American cities are what they used to be. This shouldn't be news to anyone that's been paying attention. What is news is which direction a city is heading.  Is it in a spiral of decline, or on a firm path to recovery and revitalization?

 

I for one strongly believe Cincinnati is on the later.  So much so, my wife and I have invested in our downtown residence here. 

 

Last weekend, I was entertaining a relative who had not been in downtown Cincinnati in over 30 years.  We walked across town to Jean Ro's on Vine and had drinks in the bar (where I almost always run into someone I know, and I hardly know anyone).  It was packed just like every other night.  We walked up to 6th and Walnut for a late dinner at Tratoria Roma. There were still people showing up for a table as we were leaving.  We walked down to Federal Reserve for a night cap.  People were puring in and out of that place the entire time we were there.  My guest repeatedly commented on Cincinnati's vibrant downtown.

 

Last night my wife and I were at "Light up the Square" with my sister and brother in law.  There were so many people there, you could hardly walk around on the square without having to squeeze between people.  The police had to block off 5th street around 6:15 due to the number of people.

 

Is every weekend night like that in downtown Cincinnati?  No, but they're definitely not as uncommon as they were just a couple of years ago.

 

 

 

I don't think a lack of police presence is the answer to Downtown Cincinnati's issues.

 

The problem is the lack of activity in general...IE no people.  Why is there no activity?  There is NOTHING to do on the weekends unless there is some kind of an event.  For instace, today I was kind of hungry, and wanted to walk to a restaurant for lunch (I live at 818 REEDY St.).  My options were pretty much limited to Khaldi's, Penn Station, and McFadden's.  Everything else is pretty much closed.  I passed by 13 closed restaurants on the way to McFadden's.

 

Why would anyone come downtown during the day (or night for that matter) on a weekend? I often drive up to Hyde Park, Kenwood, or even Deerfield Plaza on the weekends to spend the day. Why? Because there is a lot going on.  It's fun. 

 

Why do people flock to New York, Chicago, even Indy...because there is a ton to do every weekend.  Every restaurant, bar, store (big and small alike) are open for people to come spend money.

 

This change must occur in Downtown Cincinnati.  Small business owners can't wait for the people to come and then open.  We all need to be open, offer quality goods and services and people WILL come. The people are NOT going to come first.

 

How you may ask? 

 

Small business owners tell me all the time that they would love to be open all weekend, but can't afford it.  A few months of "waisted"  payroll, utilities and time on the weekends would close their doors.....and I believe them.  So lets help these small business owners keep there doors open on the weekend so there is something for people to come down here to.

 

Here is a start.  Instead of DCI focusing on "Safer & Cleaner" they should focus on business.  Almost $2,000,000 was spent this year on the Safer/Cleaner project.  Don't get me wrong...I think the project certainly has it's merits. I just think that the police should be responsible for "safer" and the city responsible for "cleaner".  I would encourage the DCI private investors to focus on commerce. It is what many of them know best.  I think the $2,000,000 spent could have made a great start toward lending a hand to small business owners willing to keep there doors open all weekend long.  This would not be a cash bonus, but a way to help pay the bills until the trends start to change.  Lets focus on the restaurants, bars and shopping and then work our way out from there.

 

DCI certainly isn't going to change the state of downtown on it's own, but I sincerely believe we must bring the focus back to commerce. We need to offer something to people to come down here for.  The safety issue would disappear as the streets fill up...crime is a lot harder to commit when there are people standing around.

 

By the way...I'm not picking on any one group or discrediting anyone's efforts.  Just trying to come up with some ideas.

^there is a lot going on in Kenwood?  Aside from shopping what is going on in Kenwood?  I don't even know what or where deerfield is but it sound really suburban as well.

 

I agree it's frustrating to see many closed storefronts on the weekends, but we've never had a problem finding somewhere to eat lunch on a Saturday.  Coffee Emporium, Skyline (7th and Vine), First Watch, Rise and Shine, Hathaway's, Universal Grille, Cafe Martin, Sunshine Fine Foods, Silverglades, Izzy's (on Elm), Palomino, Rock Bottom, the Kafe, Subway, Arby's, Wendy's, Main St. Diner, and the food court at Tower Place are among the restaurants that come to mind.  I know there are others as well.  I have never been bored here on a weekend, either.

 

It is apparent that the author of the original editorial piece has not been downtown after 5:00 for years.  I see police officers all the time.  In my 1.5 months of being a downtown resident, I have talked to more people than I had in my three years in my previous neighborhood.  How sad that she feels it's awful to talk to strangers.  Also, if she feels like she knows the solution to the homeless problem, I wish she would volunteer her time with it.  I'm very tired of people talking about problems, but wanting nothing to do with their solutions. 

^there is a lot going on in Kenwood?  Aside from shopping what is going on in Kenwood?  I don't even know what or where deerfield is but it sound really suburban as well.

 

 

I avoid Kenwood Town Center as much as possible.  My trip last weekend was miserable.  Lots of congestion and snooty attitudes from sales people.  My husband and I walked into one store that had 10-15 people working.  Not a single person said a word to us.  It will be a long time before I go back there again.

I always go to Penn Station and Skyline on Saturdays when I'm downtown. I'm usually there for 10 to 1 on Saturdays and granted... there aren't THAT many people there... but, you'll never see a completely empty sidewalk. And, thats still early in the day, I'm sure everything picks up from there on after.

The author has some ulterior motive. I was born in NY and I currently live in NY.  Any woman that is walking around most parts of Manattan at 2:00 AM is asking for trouble...big time.  NY is a great city and yes it is safer than it has been in the past but c'mon.   The poster is making ridiculous and one-sided statements to try to make her point.

 

As for Cincy and the issues on this board, I do think the issues include among other things improved safety and more commerce cooperation (stay open on weekends) and options.  TRhat being said, it is clear things are headed in the right direction.  The most promising sign is how many people are moving/living downtown.  The probelms that have plagued Cincy in recent years plagued the majority of US cities (ina nutshell, flight to the burbs and decaying downotowns). The trend is now revering across the country (than god). I think it is taking Cincy a bit longer to ride the trend mainly b/c of the OTR/riot issues of '01.  That being said, you can clearly see things heading in the right direction.

 

One thing Cincy has going for it is the charm of the city. In my many travels of US cities, there are very few w/ such charm.  JMHO. I am a Nyer so I am not biased.   

Mrgmfoster is right on for the most part and the increased safety of city streets with a good sidewalk presence of pedestrians is detailed in Jane Jacobs' The Death and Life of Great American Cities. I'd suggest that developments include both residential & businesses so that you don't have the inconvenience of waiting for one or the other to work before the other takes a chance to make a presence. I'm guessing a good deal of current developments probably follow this model, but since I'm not from there and don't know the detail of all those developments it'd be nice if someone else could fill us in on that.

Well I was downtown tonight and I really couldn't get over how many people were down there. There was a long line to ice skate on Fountain Square, McCormick and Shmick's had a non stop flow of people, the carriage rides were almost all full, and there were a lot of people just walking around.  It was a great site to see! I really do think McCormick and Schmicks is a great boost for downtown and I can't wait until Boi Na Braza opens.

In my 1.5 months of being a downtown resident, I have talked to more people than I had in my three years in my previous neighborhood. 

 

I know what you mean.  Sometimes it has more of a small town feeling when interacting with people than a large city. In a way, from a downtown residents point of view, it almost is a small town.  I've run into neighbors at Findlay Market, on the street, and in various resteraunts around town.  I've met and chatted with other downtown residents around town, only to bump into them somewhere else later.  I was in Kaldi's yesterday for lunch.  It was obvious that most people coming in and out knew each other to some degree. It's not long before shopkeepers and restauranters staff start to recognize you as you return. It's a nice feeling that you don't usually get in the suburbs.

 

 

In my 1.5 months of being a downtown resident, I have talked to more people than I had in my three years in my previous neighborhood. 

 

I know what you mean.  Sometimes it has more of a small town feeling when interacting with people than a large city. In a way, from a downtown residents point of view, it almost is a small town.  I've run into neighbors at Findlay Market, on the street, and in various resteraunts around town.  I've met and chatted with other downtown residents around town, only to bump into them somewhere else later.  I was in Kaldi's yesterday for lunch.  It was obvious that most people coming in and out knew each other to some degree. It's not long before shopkeepers and restauranters staff start to recognize you as you return. It's a nice feeling that you don't usually get in the suburbs.

 

 

Very well put.

Depends entirely on you, and on what you do in those suburbs.  My mom seems to know just about everyone in Hinckley.  After four years in Walnut Hills, I only know my nearby neighbors.  I knew nobody at my apartment building in Clifton, but knew most of my neighbors at the house we rented there.

 

I'll bet you can't find anyone in Indian Hill who doesn't know everyone else living there.  I work in Blue Ash, and every time I go to the Blue Ash Library over lunch I see people running into people they know.  It has absolutely nothing to do with how fake or unreal the suburbs are - it has everything to do with meeting people, talking with them, and being involved in your community.  You can know nobody in a city or everyone in a suburb - it's entirely up to you.

 

^the real issue is that you hardly meet anyone spontaneously in the suburbs and the people you meet are segregated by race and income.  Findlay market is a melting pot for the city with people of every race and income level.  The suburbs really lack public spaces, the library is one of the few ones.  Sidewalks are either non-existant or not used because the suburban jurisdictions are almost always too spread out to be walkable.

But you are right, even in the suburbs an outgoing person can meet a lot of people and in the city a recluse can know no one.

 

I know I cannot wait until I have an opportunity to live DT. I love going down to CBD and walking around. Even on Sunday mornings when I got to St. Peter in Chains for church, when we leave and go to First Watch, there are plenty of people walking around. Mostly churchgoers. On Saturdays, its pretty easy to find plenty of people around 5th near Macy's or Carew. You just have to know where to go to find people...if you want to find them.

 

If you don't want to find people, and want to paint the city in a negative light, as the writer wanted, then don't look, keep the blinders on, and ignore whats actually there.

I wonder when the last time Paul Jones was downtown

yea i know, those kinds of comments always reminds me of the one where the guy who just moved to cincy from atlanta said cincy has no culture.  i forget the context but i was like wwwhhhaaaaa!!!!! :wtf: