this was a nice, positive read in the scene. rare to hear about immigration in ne ohio  :clap:

 

 

Destination Lakewood

How a bar town became an immigration hot spot.

By Rebecca Meiser 

Article Published Nov 29, 2006

 

 

The Beit Hanina Social Club on Lorain numbers around 8,000 members; the Palestinian town of Beit Hanina has only a thousand residents.In 2002, Pittsburgh author and urban studies professor Richard Florida made waves when he declared that the success of new modern cities could be seen in the number of artists, gays, and immigrants they attracted.

 

*no article given*

Im interested in that bar town thing.  I knew Lakewood had all the gay bars, but its a hot spot for straight barflys too?

 

 

^Lakewood has more bars per capita than any other city in the country. It helps that there are two avenues with 3 continuous miles of storefront with residential above.  More neighborhood bars than you could imagine.

 

I'd say that Cleveland has the gay bar scene (though its gay bar scene is close to lakewood's borders and in Ohio City).   

I thought a town in Wisconsin had the "Most Bars Per Capita?"

^Lakewood has claimed that for a while. Considering that it has the densest population between NYC and Chicago and such a large amount of storefront fabric, I'd go with Lakewood. Have any evidence to prove otherwise?

 

 

Internet search:

 

Medford, Wisconsin has 5,000 people and 11 bars. Lakewood around 55,000 and around 150 bars.

who knew? I guess during my next trip home I'll have to check out the bars in Lakewood?  Any suggestions??

 

Be gentle I'm from the Eastside!  I've only been to bounce.  The last time I was at home for a long period of time, most of the gay bars were downtown?

Some say St. Louis...

http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:r7Y4De522jkJ:www.mensfitness.com/rankings/148+most+bars+per+capita&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1

 

Some say Key West...

http://www.seekeywestflorida.com/

 

Some say random towns in Wisconsin.

 

No one knows.

Back in the 1980s that old Places Rated Almanac said it was Green Bay that had the most bars per person, but that was 20 years ago or more.

 

@@@@@@@@@@

 

Palestinians in Lakewood.  Thats interesting.  I should tell my brother in law.

who knew? I guess during my next trip home I'll have to check out the bars in Lakewood?  Any suggestions??

 

Be gentle I'm from the Eastside!  I've only been to bounce.  The last time I was at home for a long period of time, most of the gay bars were downtown?

 

While there are bars, taverns, clubs etc. spread throughout the city, there's several concentrations of them....

 

> along Detroit, between West 117th and Fry Avenue. Many of these offer live music, or like the Phantasy Theater which is a concert club that also has a bar. Some are mainstream, others aren't -- like the chamber, which has goth and industrial. The good thing is, you can always check out one of these clubs from the sidewalk, either by the clientele coming in/out or by the music you can hear. But if you like live music and a brew, this is a good area to check out.

 

> along Madison, between Madison Park and Bunts, is an area referred to as Madison Village. It has different types of small bars and taverns in a concentrated area. This is a good place to sample a wider range of places. There's also some good restaurants in this area. Everybody loves Angelos Pizza, but I think their sauce is too sweet.

 

> along Madison, between Warren and Hilliard, offer a little less of a concentration of bars, but still good. One of my favorites is Mars Bar -- named after Mars Avenue. I have a coworker who lives on Mars. We kid him about that. Mars Bar has nice decor and good people. One time I was in there, two guys in kilts who were playing the bagpipes while walking down the street came in and started playing requests!

 

> along Detroit, in an area called the West End, several popular places are there, including the Riverwood Cafe, Around the Corner, Harry Buffalo -- part of a local chain, and a couple other little spots. Riverwood has live music, as does the 'Corner which also has all kinds of stuff from poetry readings to the Cornhole Tournament (don't ask).

 

That's a few samples. And yes, there's lots of immigrants here. Walk down Cove Avenue from Detroit to Clifton in the summertime. A few years ago, while coming back from Pepper's Cafe (tiny little Italian bistro), I swear I heard a half-dozen different languages being uttered from front porches. I also hear Arabic dance music in the neighborhood when parties are held outdoors. And there are people in my building conversing and arguing in Hungarian, Slovak -- you name it.

 

If I ever move from here (I've lived in this building for 10 years now), it will be a tough decision and a sad day.

who knew? I guess during my next trip home I'll have to check out the bars in Lakewood?  Any suggestions??

 

Be gentle I'm from the Eastside!  I've only been to bounce.  The last time I was at home for a long period of time, most of the gay bars were downtown?

 

We'll have to request that you return your Eastside fabulous card!

 

I'm affraid that once you're lured over to the darkside, I mean, west side will brainwash you.   :evil: :whip: :evil:

That story was positive, except for the part about the Jew-haters from "the old country." I'd rather not live next to Borat.

 

And grudges, beefs, and prejudice carried from the old country aren't easily defused.

 

When Scene sent a photographer to the Beit Hanina Social Club, he was accosted by angry members, who told him that the paper "is run by a bunch of Jews." They wanted to know whether the writer of the story is Jewish. [she is.]

 

When the photographer refused to tell them, they asked whether he too was a Jew. [He's a Czech immigrant.] Then, before he left they told him they wanted nothing to do with a "Jew-owned" paper [it's owned by the Irish].

 

So much for everyone living happily together.

 

 

> along Detroit, in an area called the West End, several popular places are there, including the Riverwood Cafe, Around the Corner, Harry Buffalo -- part of a local chain, and a couple other little spots. Riverwood has live music, as does the 'Corner which also has all kinds of stuff from poetry readings to the Cornhole Tournament (don't ask).

 

 

I like to extend the west end bar district all the way to Hall or so.  By my count, there are 14 bars/ liquor licenses in that, what, 10 block strip? 

 

Around the Corner

Harry Buffalo

Westend

Riverwood

Kennelworth

Put-in-Bay

Cronies

Rush Inn

Pug Mahone's

Reagle Beagle (sure its a salon, but they have a bar!)

Johnny Malloy's

The Drink

McCarthy's

Panini's

 

Pretty much all of them are neighborhood bars or college bars, but it makes for a fun pub crawl.

 

 

 

 

"I'd say that Cleveland has the gay bar scene (though its gay bar scene is close to lakewood's borders and in Ohio City)."

 

That's correct - there are no gay bars in Lakewood. Twist is located on Clifton, just next to the border but it's in Cleveland proper. There are two others located on Detroit near West 112th but again - both in Cleveland city limits.

Some say St. Louis...

http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:r7Y4De522jkJ:www.mensfitness.com/rankings/148+most+bars+per+capita&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1

 

Some say Key West...

http://www.seekeywestflorida.com/

 

Some say random towns in Wisconsin.

 

No one knows.

 

well, you're gonna be anti-ne ohio about everything, so you're no judge, but maybe we can parse it out at least a little bit better than that?

 

interesting when you look that lakewood and key west are both the same size area, basically six square miles, but lakewood is much denser at more than double key west's population -- so from that, not to mention my own experience, it's a good bet there are more bars in lakewood. if you think about it key west is mostly the duval street strip and the sunset thing, but lakewood has three long bar drags, detroit, the grungy old irish riviera along lorain and up and coming hipster madison. of course they seem to party harder in kw as its more touristy/visible and outdoors, but that could be deceiving as it's like tailgate partying.

 

st. louis has bud so thats certainly a big something, but i dont recall seeing so many bars to the extent you see them around lakewood. not that i was ever all over the city like a blanket or anything. it's harder to say with a big city.

 

Christ, it isn't about "anti-NEO" or whatever rant this time.  Hell, if someone said "Lebanon has more antique stores than ANY PLACE ON EARTH," you'd be damn sure I would bitchslap that thread too. 

 

My only "claim" was that OTHER cities "claim" to have more bars per capita as well.  Hell, St. John's in Canada claims to have the most in North America.  Whoopdy do.

 

Continue on with the discussion.

so this time, eh? suspiciously, dubiously amazing.  :wink:

 

 

I don't believe this is actually happening, but I'm siding with ColDayMan on this one. Some other mindless, impossible-to-prove stats and sayings are also get thrown out in public as fact. Such as:

 

> "Lakewood has more gay residents per-capita than any city outside San Francisco." How does one come to this conclusion? It's not a box on the Census form you check, is it? Did a surveyor go door-to-door and ask "Are you gay?"

 

> "Lakewood is the most densely populated city between New York and Chicago." What does "between" mean? Where does that "between" stop being considered? The line is not a fact, just an opinion of what cities should no longer be counted in "between."

 

> "Playhouse Square is the largest performing arts district outside New York City." Measured by what? Other districts have more seats, or venues or shows. Can't we just be happy that we have a gem like Playhouse Square rather than try to quantify it by some hollow "fact"?

 

> "No two snowflakes are alike." Did someone actually see them all?

 

> "Breakfast is the most important meal of the day." Who decided that one?

 

> "_______ is the greatest thing since sliced bread." I don't think sliced bread is all that miraculous. But what I want to know is what was the greatest thing BEFORE sliced bread!?!?

""Lakewood has more gay residents per-capita than any city outside San Francisco." How does one come to this conclusion? It's not a box on the Census form you check, is it? Did a surveyor go door-to-door and ask "Are you gay?"

 

^Thank you!  I don't live in Lakewood so really folks - it can't possibly be that gay. :roll:

 

One more - "Key Tower is the tallest building between NYC and Chicago". No it isn't, unless Atlanta has suddenly relocated off the Atlantic coast, and Toronto has been moved to California.

^ oh come on now. we can do a bit better than just throw up our hands on stuff like that. you just have to dig a little and get your hands dirty. what's the harm?

 

"Playhouse Square is the largest performing arts district outside New York City."

 

true...when it was first uttered, but very recently denver's complex surpassed it by a few seats. remember when we had a whole thread on that one?

 

"Key Tower is the tallest building between NYC and Chicago. No it isn't, unless Atlanta has suddenly relocated off the Atlantic coast, and Toronto has been moved to California."

 

hold on there -- again, true when first said. can be still true, depends how you look at it. atlanta is the south and toronto to the north. neither are techincally "between" those cities along the direct I-80 path. unless you want to say "Key Tower is the tallest building between NYC and Chicago in the same general longitude region." then that old saw would be dead wrongo. mere semantics? ok.

 

my point being a little sleuthing around pays off. you could even definitively know the "most bars" too if you went in the phonebook and counted them all and then compared them to the population. time consuming, but not hard. certainly not unknowable. sorry but saying you can't quantify and compare is a peeve - i cant help it as a stats major.  :laugh:

 

 

 

""Lakewood has more gay residents per-capita than any city outside San Francisco." How does one come to this conclusion? It's not a box on the Census form you check, is it? Did a surveyor go door-to-door and ask "Are you gay?"

 

^Thank you!  I don't live in Lakewood so really folks - it can't possibly be that gay. :roll:

 

Another mindless, impossible-to-prove stat!

I would think the easiest one to prove would be the densest pop statement....population per sq mile within city limits...between the Eastern most border of Chicago and the Western most border of NYC....

hold on there -- again, true when first said. can be still true, depends how you look at it. atlanta is the south and toronto to the north. neither are techincally "between" those cities along the direct I-80 path.

 

But how far north and how far south? That gets into a value judgment, and the more you get into a value judgment, the less you can call something a fact.

 

Like the old saying from my law classes -- a law goes from being bent to broken when someone, using their own set of values, decides it is so.

I would think the easiest one to prove would be the densest pop statement....population per sq mile within city limits...between the Eastern most border of Chicago and the Western most border of NYC....

 

exactly, that stuff's even on wiki...if we can trust wiki. for example, lakewood on wiki touts  that saying as true, but i think they forgot about 'lil old hoboken, nj, just west of nyc and w/ it's pop density of 15,610.7/mi² as compared to lakewood's 10,208.5/mi². so, debunked or no?

 

hold on there -- again, true when first said. can be still true, depends how you look at it. atlanta is the south and toronto to the north. neither are techincally "between" those cities along the direct I-80 path.

 

But how far north and how far south? That gets into a value judgment, and the more you get into a value judgment, the less you can call something a fact.

 

Like the old saying from my law classes -- a law goes from being bent to broken when someone, using their own set of values, decides it is so.

 

ah true, but only if we keep it vague that way. otoh, its not a value judgement if you define and clarify your parameters. then you can say it. speaking stats, its a validity issue. don't forget the time factor, you are applying a true old statement to today's world. the "tallest tower..." was wide open true for awhile, but not anymore. however, if you say 'directly' between those two cities (ie., across I-80) then it still holds true. of course, people have to be on board with the clarification -- that's exactly what took some time to do on the old "playhouse square is the largest..." thread and is what made that thread rather fascinating and informative to me as together we all disproved that one.

 

maybe the real question on some of those is were they ever true?

 

 

That story was positive, except for the part about the Jew-haters from "the old country." I'd rather not live next to Borat.

 

And grudges, beefs, and prejudice carried from the old country aren't easily defused.

 

When Scene sent a photographer to the Beit Hanina Social Club, he was accosted by angry members, who told him that the paper "is run by a bunch of Jews." They wanted to know whether the writer of the story is Jewish. [she is.]

 

When the photographer refused to tell them, they asked whether he too was a Jew. [He's a Czech immigrant.] Then, before he left they told him they wanted nothing to do with a "Jew-owned" paper [it's owned by the Irish].

 

So much for everyone living happily together.

 

 

 

Where was that in the article? Still the last part about a girl "dishonoring" the community is a problem. This is America, not the Arab world. We don't need honor killings going on over here. If they was to disown their child over something like this or give them a non-violent form of punishment, fine. I'd be worried about how they will deal with all the gay people there, especially if a gay Arab immigrant is found to be having relations with someone of the same sex. With immigrants, depending what kind of society they are from, you're bound to have some backward mentalities. One of the downsides of immigration. The upside is their children are raised in a society that, in general,  values things like equality and individualism even though we're not doing the best job in upholding those values.

 

With immigrants, depending what kind of society they are from, you're bound to have some backward mentalities.

 

I guess that statement is open minded, huh?  :?  Just because one of us/an american doesn't understand their culture/history it doesn't make it "backwards".

"Another mindless, impossible-to-prove stat!"

 

There are some subjects about which my knowledge can be questioned - THAT is not one of them!

 

"hold on there -- again, true when first said. can be still true, depends how you look at it. atlanta is the south and toronto to the north. neither are techincally "between" those cities along the direct I-80 path. unless you want to say "Key Tower is the tallest building between NYC and Chicago in the same general longitude region." then that old saw would be dead wrongo. mere semantics? ok."

 

Philadelphia - Comcast Center, currently under construction and when it tops out next year at 975', it'll all be a moot point. :-)

 

 

Along a direct path of I-80, our competition for "between New York and Chicago" includes South Bend, Toledo, Youngstown, DuBois, State College, Williamsport, Wilkes-Barre/Scranton and Shroudsburg.

 

If that's our measuring stick, then ranking highly compared to anything "between New York and Chicago" ain't impressing this fella.

I don't believe this is actually happening, but I'm siding with ColDayMan on this one. Some other mindless, impossible-to-prove stats and sayings are also get thrown out in public as fact. Such as:

 

> "Lakewood has more gay residents per-capita than any city outside San Francisco." How does one come to this conclusion? It's not a box on the Census form you check, is it? Did a surveyor go door-to-door and ask "Are you gay?"

 

 

wow, google teaches me the weirdest things....(if anyone really cares)

 

http://www.gaydemographics.org/USA/2000Census_Gay_incorporated.htm

it's a good bet there are more bars in lakewood. if you think about it key west is mostly the duval street strip and the sunset thing, but lakewood has three long bar drags, detroit, the grungy old irish riviera along lorain and up and coming hipster madison.

 

 

Well, not quite.  I'll give you Detroit and Madison, but Lorain is in Cleveland, not Lakewood.

 

"Lakewood has more gay residents per-capita than any city outside San Francisco." How does one come to this conclusion? It's not a box on the Census form you check, is it? Did a surveyor go door-to-door and ask "Are you gay?"

 

 

I never could quite figure that one out, either.  BTW, I'd always heard that one was on a Trivial Pursuit card, but I myself have never seen that card so I suspect that's yet another one of those "urban legends".

 

How about this one?  "Lakewood is the finest place to live in Cuyahoga County."  :-D

Over the years I've lived in Cleveland, its always been "known" that lakewood was the gayest place in Ohio, although, I "think" that thre might be a large gay population as there are no longer any gay bars in lakewood.

 

However, there are spots all over greater cleveland known as "gay" spots.  Coventry, the condos' that surround beachwood mall, Shaker Square, Cedar-Lee, the East 20s, Ohio City, Quincy in the 80s, Wade Park in the 90s, the Lee Road area in Maple Hts., Oakwood.  I'm sure there are others.  Now that I think about it, I would think Cleveland Hts., is the most gay friend suburb.

When you say Quincy in the 80's and Wade Park in the 90's, do you mean the E 80's and E 90's or the years.  I just find it hard to believe that Quincy is a destination for gay people in that area.  I thought that area was primarily Industrial. 

He's referring to the East 80s and East 90s. The East 80s area of Quincy was industrial, being the site of the long-gone Schmidt Brewery. But in a lot of Cleveland neighborhoods, industry was built in residential areas, or residential built around industry, to put jobs within walking distance of the labor pool. Today, that makes these industrial sites, once cleaned, ideal for live-work lofts, artists' lofts and other places for start-up businesses.

When you say Quincy in the 80's and Wade Park in the 90's, do you mean the E 80's and E 90's or the years.  I just find it hard to believe that Quincy is a destination for gay people in that area.  I thought that area was primarily Industrial. 

the streets.  There were lots of gays in the quincy area near Karamu. and Wade Park still has alot of gay men & women living on it or near it in the especially in the 70s near lexington village, in the upper 80s & the 90s, and at East Blvd. 

Over the years I've lived in Cleveland, its always been "known" that lakewood was the gayest place in Ohio, although, I "think" that thre might be a large gay population as there are no longer any gay bars in lakewood.

 

However, there are spots all over greater cleveland known as "gay" spots.  Coventry, the condos' that surround beachwood mall, Shaker Square, Cedar-Lee, the East 20s, Ohio City, Quincy in the 80s, Wade Park in the 90s, the Lee Road area in Maple Hts., Oakwood.  I'm sure there are others.  Now that I think about it, I would think Cleveland Hts., is the most gay friend suburb.

 

I have never heard about any of these until just now. I also don't think Lakewood has that amazingly high gay population everyone speaks of. I think it's definately the Edgewater neighborhood of Cleveland where it's all at, between Detroit and Lake Avenue and between West Blvd. and West 117th. As for Lakewood, anything near the Gold Coast seems to be the concentrated area in the city.

Over the years I've lived in Cleveland, its always been "known" that lakewood was the gayest place in Ohio, although, I "think" that thre might be a large gay population as there are no longer any gay bars in lakewood.

 

However, there are spots all over greater cleveland known as "gay" spots.  Coventry, the condos' that surround beachwood mall, Shaker Square, Cedar-Lee, the East 20s, Ohio City, Quincy in the 80s, Wade Park in the 90s, the Lee Road area in Maple Hts., Oakwood.  I'm sure there are others.  Now that I think about it, I would think Cleveland Hts., is the most gay friend suburb.

I have never heard about any of these until just now. I also don't think Lakewood has that amazingly high gay population everyone speaks of. I think it's definately the Edgewater neighborhood of Cleveland where it's all at, between Detroit and Lake Avenue and between West Blvd. and West 117th. As for Lakewood, anything near the Gold Coast seems to be the concentrated area in the city.

 

 

I live on Shaker Square and it definitely a "homo" hood!  And in my initial message I ment to say, I think people "think" there is a huge gay population in Lakewood, but its really concentrated inside Cleveland.

 

There are lots of "gay" neighborhoods in Metro Cleveland.  I wish we had a Big Gayborhood though.

Is there anything Shaker Square doesn't have?!?

Is there anything Shaker Square doesn't have?!?

 

level headed forumers

You said it, not me.

Is there anything Shaker Square doesn't have?!?

 

a Joseph Beth Booksellers

Is there anything Shaker Square doesn't have?!?

 

level headed forumers

 

Don't insult Clvndr like that!  However, the fine people of Shaker Square are still a step above those people down the way.

Is there anything Shaker Square doesn't have?!?

 

A HNIC!

 

With immigrants, depending what kind of society they are from, you're bound to have some backward mentalities.

 

I guess that statement is open minded, huh?  :?  Just because one of us/an american doesn't understand their culture/history it doesn't make it "backwards".

 

Oh, I do understand it. The concept of "honor" or "شرف" in the Arab world is backward. If a girl has pre-marital relations or is merely suspected of having done so, that can warrant her bloody demise by a male relative, like her own brother or father. I'm a liberal, but my views have to stand up to reason. There are aspects of culture there that are great, but there is plenty of backwardness there that the people choose to fuel themselves. Here's an example, this man is (was) the Syrian Deputy Minister of Religious Endowments and here is what he has to say about AIDS and gays. I will note that my Arabic certainly isn't perfect and the verb he used "to stone" does have other meanings, but I'm pretty sure he wasn't talking about "damning" or "cursing" people.

 

(3rd one down)

http://www.memritv.org/Search.asp?ACT=S5&P1=86&P3=2