good for them, about the ball anyway.

 

Union sues the NBA over new ball, tighter officiating

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/basketball/nba/12/01/players.grievance.ap/index.html?cnn=yes

   

David Stern's decision to change the ball from leather to microfiber composite hasn't been popular with the players.

 

NEW YORK (AP) -- The players' association filed two unfair labor practice charges Friday against the NBA over issues with the new ball and the league's crackdown on player complaints.

 

A number of players publicly have complained about the change in the ball from leather to microfiber composite. But the crackdown on complaints after the whistle, often referred to as a "zero-tolerance policy," might be the bigger problem...

 

 

From your title, I was trying to figure out why a radio station was involved in this, and then where WOAH broadcast from!  I'm a little slow sometimes...

 

so much for the new hi tech ball. consider it a bust.  :clap:

 

 

NBA to return to old ball

League listens to player complaints, will switch Jan. 1

 

Posted: Monday December 11, 2006 7:48PM; Updated: Tuesday December 12, 2006 2:01AM

 

Snipped - no link

 

"Now we can concentrate on what we're here to do and that is to play basketball," said Heat guard Dwyane Wade

 

Yeah, PLAY, that's what you should've been doing all along...what a bunch of babies!  It's a BALL for f*ck's sake!  Get over it and shoot the thing through the little hole!  I thought this was a big step for a major professional sport to go synthetic, rather than killing a whole new mess of animals for their hides, but ah well, the bazillionnaires cried and now they'll get their precious carcass balls back.  Way to fold, Stern!

The whole point of the new ball was to better prepare the Americans for international play...which we have been embarrased in the last few years.  There is NO reason for the Americans to EVER lose an international event....NONE!!!!  Before you start whining about a change......START PERFORMING!!!!!!!!

The whole point of the new ball was to better prepare the Americans for international play...which we have been embarrased in the last few years.  There is NO reason for the Americans to EVER lose an international event....NONE!!!!  Before you start whining about a change......START PERFORMING!!!!!!!!

 

that's a bit pompous, don't you think? (or maybe you were being overtly sarcastic)

^I was referring to basketball only....we created the sport, and the only reason we have been losing is to lack of effort and team play.  Sure there is international talent, but it does not compare to the American talent.

talent as in, the ability to whine?

5.7 billion vs. 300 million...

 

Hmmm...

^its about quality not quantity

I'm sure the odds are that 5.7 billion have both more quality and quantity than the United States.

no wait actually broadly speaking the odds are better for the usa by a factor of 10.

 

there are 193 countries which averages to 30M per. so 300M for the usa to 30M for others. of course some countries have more and some less people so the talent varies in that regard, as does their interest in the game, etc.

 

as for the ball even if we went with the new ball to help improve our international play the euros would just change something else to get the edge. so i say stay old school, at least for now.

 

if the nba really wants the new synthetic ball they need to hype it and push it at the schoolyard, high school, & college levels for awhile first. you can't expect the current pro players with no experience with the new ball to take to it, but the younger players might go for it in a few years.

 

 

I highly doubt I will ever say this again, but "thank you" Boston!

 

Lets hope every game Miami plays ends like this!

 

Hopefully, this will give the CAVS some motivation for their season opener.

 

GO CAVS

 

 

I agree. Limiting the Heat to 9 points in the first quarter with Bosh, Lebron and Wade on the floor is nuts.

 

Hope the Cavs can show the Heat how its done tomorrow...

Rooting for Boston felt strange.  Just last year Ray Allen's 3s felt like daggers... strange.

I agree. My wife is from Boston and she said " did I just hear you cheer for the Celtics??"

Ditto.  I hate all Boston teams but I couldn't help but root for them last night......

I hear you. Allen was shooting those threes and I was going "yeah" followed by "uuummhhh" because I couldn't believe I  found my self rooting so instinctly for Boston. Toughest for me will be rooting for Orlando.....but I am sure that I will be.

I hear you. Allen was shooting those threes and I was going "yeah" followed by "uuummhhh" because I couldn't believe I  found my self rooting so instinctly for Boston. Toughest for me will be rooting for Orlando.....but I am sure that I will be.

 

Ditto.  However, I'll suck it up and I'll root for ANY team, even the Knicks and Nets, when they play against the heat!

Rooting for boston did feel strange. At times I would actually say "we are winning", things like that, it was very scary.

The box score for last night's game looks a lot like a Cav's box score from last year. Congratulation Chris Bosh you are now Andy....

 

Also LBJ only had 3 assists? I know the Heat were not shooting well last night but 3 assists? Where are all of those options at?

Tina Brown and DL Hughley were on point, except the Cleveland jokes.

 

http://soc.li/Op3ZW6Z

 

DL - "He should stop actin' like an ass!"  :clap:  :clap:

Question: Did that NBA Player Whom Shall Not Be Named average 100 points per game and 0 assists last year?

 

The reason why I ask is because I was watching NBA Gametime earlier this evening, and heard the commentators making excuses for this players' performance yesterday in Boston. Specifically one of the two commentators (the guy other than Barkley) said "the reason why he had so few assists is because he isn't used to having anyone to pass the ball to."

 

I've heard other stupid comments like that recently, including Kornholer and Wilbonbon on ESPN predicting 20 and 30 wins for the Cavs this year. If they win 45 and make the playoffs, I wonder what all these sports "experts" will say then? Probably some BS like "LBJ sure taught them well..."

Celtics lose...

Question: Did that NBA Player Whom Shall Not Be Named average 100 points per game and 0 assists last year?

 

The reason why I ask is because I was watching NBA Gametime earlier this evening, and heard the commentators making excuses for this players' performance yesterday in Boston. Specifically one of the two commentators (the guy other than Barkley) said "the reason why he had so few assists is because he isn't used to having anyone to pass the ball to."

 

I've heard other stupid comments like that recently, including Kornholer and Wilbonbon on ESPN predicting 20 and 30 wins for the Cavs this year. If they win 45 and make the playoffs, I wonder what all these sports "experts" will say then? Probably some BS like "LBJ sure taught them well..."

 

Honestly I didn't thing what was such a slam.  Looking at NBA records over the past 5 years.  I myself was thinking they would win ~35 games and would be in the run for the 7/8 position.

 

Its too early in the season to think the CAVS or any team will be "X" good or another NBA team "that" bad.  It's a long season and I think the CAVS will be competitive and be more of a "team" than ever.

 

I dont want to talk about playoffs now, as we all know its win or go home.

Question: Did that NBA Player Whom Shall Not Be Named average 100 points per game and 0 assists last year?

 

The reason why I ask is because I was watching NBA Gametime earlier this evening, and heard the commentators making excuses for this players' performance yesterday in Boston. Specifically one of the two commentators (the guy other than Barkley) said "the reason why he had so few assists is because he isn't used to having anyone to pass the ball to."

 

I've heard other stupid comments like that recently, including Kornholer and Wilbonbon on ESPN predicting 20 and 30 wins for the Cavs this year. If they win 45 and make the playoffs, I wonder what all these sports "experts" will say then? Probably some BS like "LBJ sure taught them well..."

 

The TNT guys just pander to whatever the current opinion of the second is; except Barkley he usually speaks what is on his mind, good bad or from space aliens.

 

In all honesty 20-30 wins is where the team should be expected pre-season.  There are way too many unknowns about the roster to project any higher right now.  Could they win 45 and be a 5-6 seed, yeah but JJ will have to make that next step (looks possible after last night), Jamison needs to be good with coming off the bench, Mo needs to be a dead eye from the 3, and the team as a whole needs to push the ball.  If all that happens, big if, 45 is possible.  If Mo is hurt for an extended period of time, also a good possibility, or if JJ acts like an immature 21 y.o. then they could easily fall to 25-30 wins.

 

I still think they will sneak into the playoffs as a 7 seed, but not sure that is the best thing for the franchise.  Might be better to get into the lottery and improve through the draft. 

TNT, SI & NBA TV did a good job.  I thought it was balanced.  If not, I would have said something  ;)

TNT, SI & NBA TV did a good job. I thought it was balanced. If not, I would have said something ;)

 

Right right, corporate whore.  Ha, no I respect what SI puts together editorially much more than anyone else.  There are really just a few writers at ESPN that I take seriously at all, JA Adande and hopefully Windy as he gets some more exposure.  I mean it is an "Entertainment" and Sports Programing Network.

TNT, SI & NBA TV did a good job.  I thought it was balanced.  If not, I would have said something  ;)

 

Right right, corporate whore.  Ha, no I respect what SI puts together editorially much more than anyone else.  There are really just a few writers at ESPN that I take seriously at all, JA Adande and hopefully Windy as he gets some more exposure.  I mean it is an "Entertainment" and Sports Programing Network.

 

Well the info at SI is the same infor you'll see on TNT and NBA.com

 

ESPN is trash for all the obvious reasons and nobody should tune in or pull up that website!

Considering bron bron had 8 in the first game and 9 in the second all by himself, 14 for the whole team doenst seem to bad  :-D

I just dont like TO's!  They are a pet peeve of mine!  Handle the damn ball! :whip:

I just dont like TO's! They are a pet peeve of mine! Handle the damn ball! :whip:

 

Most Turnovers aren't from ball handling.  Someone stepping into a passing lane-> TO, Tipped ball into defenders hands->TO, Traveling TO, Shot clock violation TO, there are lots of different way to create a TO that dont involve dribbling it off your foot.

For me TO's are fine. What pisses me off is the last 2min of every close game where we are all of the sudden not watching a fast paced exciting sport, but now watching the NBA's version of Football or Baseball. Game goes goes goes goes with minimal interruption then BAM!, all of the sudden we get 4-5 seconds of action between intentional fouls. It's just dumb and I feel dumb for watching it.

 

Edit: I just wish there was some alternative to just play the intentional foul game or keep away.  The end of basketball games outside of winning is very unsatisfying to me.

I just dont like TO's!  They are a pet peeve of mine!  Handle the damn ball! :whip:

 

Most Turnovers aren't from ball handling.  Someone stepping into a passing lane-> TO, Tipped ball into defenders hands->TO, Traveling TO, Shot clock violation TO, there are lots of different way to create a TO that dont involve dribbling it off your foot.

 

"handling" the ball is in various forms as you state, I didnt mean dribbling alone.

"handling" the ball is in various forms as you state, I didnt mean dribbling alone.

 

Dirty!

For me TO's are fine. What pisses me off is the last 2min of every close game where we are all of the sudden not watching a fast paced exciting sport, but now watching the NBA's version of Football or Baseball. Game goes goes goes goes with minimal interruption then BAM!, all of the sudden we get 4-5 seconds of action between intentional fouls. It's just dumb and I feel dumb for watching it.

 

That's basketball, not the NBA.  What makes it more painful in the NBA, though, is: (1) too many timeouts are given to each team and (2) the timeouts are too long (so they can show a bunch of commercials).

For me TO's are fine. What pisses me off is the last 2min of every close game where we are all of the sudden not watching a fast paced exciting sport, but now watching the NBA's version of Football or Baseball. Game goes goes goes goes with minimal interruption then BAM!, all of the sudden we get 4-5 seconds of action between intentional fouls. It's just dumb and I feel dumb for watching it.

 

Edit: I just wish there was some alternative to just play the intentional foul game or keep away. The end of basketball games outside of winning is very unsatisfying to me.

 

Think about the game pre-shot clock. After a while, the team with the lead would just huddle up around the guy with the ball and block the other team out until the clock ran down. Now that's compelling!

I don't find it nearly as frustrating as what they do for the whole game in the NFL.  Lead in - commercials - kickoff - commercials - series of play - commericals - punt - commercials - punt return - commercials - offense takes the field before a tv timeout - commercials - series of play then timeout - commercial - touchdown - commerical - extra point - commercial - kickoff - commericials.....

 

OK.... so maybe I am exaggerating a BIT.  But that is how it feels on Sundays sometimes.

^ It certainly does feel that way. Football is a game of rhythm too and it becomes frustrating for players sometimes to wait for all these commercials. In the past, the game did not wait for the advertising so much as it does today. If they didn't get back to the action in time..oh well, you missed a bit.

I understand that those last 2 minutes is that way for all of basketball.  I'm saying basketball is flawed for those last two minutes.  I understand this would never happen but I'd much rather they all put on pads and duke it out for the last 2 minutes or just have a special 2min ejection rule where they'll just eject you with no additional consequences in those last two minutes.  For me it would be a more compelling game.  Fouling being part of the strategy of the game is uncompelling.  Fortunately for basketball it only gets ridiculous in the last 2min and I'll keep watching.

For me TO's are fine.  What pisses me off is the last 2min of every close game where we are all of the sudden not watching a fast paced exciting sport, but now watching the NBA's version of Football or Baseball.  Game goes goes goes goes with minimal interruption then BAM!, all of the sudden we get 4-5 seconds of action between intentional fouls.  It's just dumb and I feel dumb for watching it.

 

That's basketball, not the NBA.  What makes it more painful in the NBA, though, is: (1) too many timeouts are given to each team and (2) the timeouts are too long (so they can show a bunch of commercials).

 

Blame the NBA for that!  There are special "commercial" time outs that are seperate from game time outs.

Whatever happened to the "20 second timeout"..... nowadays, it seems to be there in name only

Whatever happened to the "20 second timeout"..... nowadays, it seems to be there in name only

 

There are so many "rules" and "exceptions" I can barely understand.  Happy reading!

 

Section VI-20-Second Timeout

A player's request for a 20-second timeout shall be granted only when the ball is dead or in control of the team making the request. A request at any other time shall be ignored.

EXCEPTION: The head coach may request a 20-second timeout if there is a suspension of play to administer Comments on the Rules-N-Guidelines for Infection Control.

a. Each team is entitled to one (1) 20-second timeout per half for a total of two (2) per game, including overtimes.

b. During a 20-second timeout a team may only substitute for one player. If the team calling the 20-second timeout replaces a player, the opposing team may also replace one player.

EXCEPTION: In the last two minutes of the fourth period and/or any overtime period, free substitution is permitted by both teams.

c. If a second 20-second timeout is requested during a half (including over-times), it shall be granted. It will automatically become a charged regular timeout. Overtimes are considered to be an extension of the second half.

d. The official shall instruct the timer to record the 20 seconds and to inform him when the time has expired. An additional regular timeout will be charged if play is unable to resume at the expiration of that 20-second time limit.

EXCEPTION: No regular timeout remaining and an injured player on the court.

e. This rule may be used for any reason, including a request for a rule interpretation. If the correction is sustained, no timeout shall be charged.

f. Players should say "20-second timeout" when requesting this time.

g. If a 20-second timeout is requested by the offensive team during the last two minutes of the fourth period and/or any overtime period and (1) the ball is out-of-bounds in the backcourt (except for a suspension of play), or (2) after securing the ball from a rebound and prior to any advance of the ball, or (3) after the offensive team secures the ball from a change of possession and prior to any advance of the ball, the timeout should be granted. Upon resumption of play, the team granted the timeout shall have the option of putting the ball into play at the 28' hash mark in the frontcourt or at the designated spot out-of-bounds. If the ball is put into play at the hash mark, the ball may be passed into either the frontcourt or backcourt. If it is passed into the backcourt, the team will receive a new 8-second count.

h. If a 20-second timeout has been granted and a mandatory timeout by the same team is due, only the mandatory timeout will be charged.

i. A 20-second timeout shall not be granted to the defensive team during an official's suspension-of-play for (1) delay-of-game warning, (2) retrieving an errant ball, (3) an inadvertent whistle or (4) any other unusual circumstance.

EXCEPTION: Suspension of play for a player bleeding. See Comments on the Rules-N.

 

Section VII-Regular Timeout-100/60 Seconds A player's request for a timeout shall be granted only when the ball is dead or in control of the team making the request. A request at any other time shall be ignored.

EXCEPTION: The head coach may request a regular timeout if there is a suspension of play to administer Comments on the Rules-N-Guidelines for Infection Control.

a. Each team is entitled to six (6) charged timeouts during regulation play. Each team is limited to no more than three (3) timeouts in the fourth period and no more than two (2) timeouts in the last two minutes of regulation play. (This is in addition to one 20-second timeout per half.)

b. During a regular timeout, both teams may have unlimited substitutions.

c. In overtime periods each team shall be allowed three (3) 60-second timeouts regardless of the number of timeouts called or remaining during regulation play or previous overtimes. Teams are permitted no more than two timeouts in the last two minutes of the period.

d. There must be two 100-second timeouts in the first and third periods and three 100-second timeouts in the second and fourth periods. If neither team has taken a timeout prior to 5:59 of the first or third period, it shall be mandatory for the Official Scorer to take it at the first dead ball and charge it to the home team. If no subsequent timeouts are taken prior to 2:59, it shall be mandatory for the Official Scorer to take it and charge it to the team not previously charged. If neither team has taken a timeout prior to 8:59 of the second or fourth period, a mandatory timeout will be called by the Official Scorer and charged to neither team. If there are no subsequent timeouts taken prior to 5:59, it shall be mandatory for the Official Scorer to take it at the first dead ball and charge it to the home team. If no subsequent timeouts are taken prior to 2:59, it shall be mandatory for the Official Scorer to take it and charge it to the team not previously charged. The Official Scorer shall notify a team when it has been charged with a mandatory timeout. Any additional timeouts in a period beyond those which are mandatory shall be 60 seconds. No regular or mandatory timeout shall be granted to the defensive team during an official's suspension-of-play for (1) a delay-of-game warning, (2) retrieving an errant ball, (3) an inadvertent whistle, or (4) any other unusual circumstance.

EXCEPTION: Suspension-of-play for Infection Control. See Comments on the Rules-N.

e. If a regular or mandatory timeout is awarded the offensive team during the last two minutes of the fourth period and/or any overtime period and (1) the ball is out-of-bounds in the backcourt (except for a suspension of play), or (2) after securing the ball from a rebound and prior to any advance of the ball, or (3) after securing the ball from a change of possession and prior to any advance of the ball, the timeout shall be granted. Upon resumption of play, the team granted the timeout shall have the option of putting the ball into play at the 28' hash mark in the frontcourt, or at the designated spot out-of-bounds. If the ball is put into play at the hash mark, the ball may be passed into either the frontcourt or backcourt. If the ball is passed into the backcourt, the team will receive a new 8-second count. However, once the ball is (1) thrown in from out-of-bounds, or (2) dribbled or passed after receiving it from a rebound or a change of possession, the timeout shall be granted, and, upon resumption of play, the ball shall be in-bounded on the side- line where play was interrupted. The time on the game clock and the 24-second clock shall remain as when the timeout was called. In order for the option to be available under the conditions in paragraph #2 above, the offensive team must call two successive timeouts.

f. No timeout shall be charged if it is called to question a rule interpretation and the correction is sustained.

g. Requests for a timeout in excess of the authorized number shall be granted and a technical foul shall be assessed. Following the timeout, the ball will be awarded to the opposing team and play shall resume with a throw-in nearest the spot where play was interrupted.

Section VIII-Timeout Requests

a. If an official, upon receiving a timeout request (regular or 20-second) by the defensive team, inadvertently signals while the play is in progress, play shall be suspended and the team in possession shall put the ball in play immediately at the sideline nearest where the ball was when the signal was given. The team in possession shall have only the time remaining of the original eight seconds in which to move the ball into the frontcourt. The 24-second clock shall remain the same.

b. If an official, upon receiving a timeout request (regular or 20-second) from the defensive team, inadvertently signals for a timeout during: (1) a successful field goal or free throw attempt, the point(s) shall be scored; (2) an unsuccessful field goal attempt, play shall be resumed with a jump ball at the center circle between any two opponents; (3) an unsuccessful free throw attempt, the official shall rule disconcerting and award a substitute free throw.

c. If an official inadvertently blows his whistle during (1) a successful field goal or free throw attempt, the points shall be scored, or (2) an unsuccessful field goal or free throw attempt, play shall be resumed with a jump ball at the center circle between any two opponents.

d. When a team is granted a regular or 20-second time-out, play shall not resume until the full 100 seconds, 60 seconds, or 20 seconds have elapsed. The throw-in shall be nearest the spot where play was suspended. The throw-in shall be on the sideline, if the ball was in play when the request was granted.

e. A player shall not be granted a timeout (regular or 20-second) if both of his feet are in the air and any part of his body has broken the vertical plane of the boundary line (including the midcourt line).

I don't find it nearly as frustrating as what they do for the whole game in the NFL.  Lead in - commercials - kickoff - commercials - series of play - commericals - punt - commercials - punt return - commercials - offense takes the field before a tv timeout - commercials - series of play then timeout - commercial - touchdown - commerical - extra point - commercial - kickoff - commericials.....

 

OK.... so maybe I am exaggerating a BIT.  But that is how it feels on Sundays sometimes.

 

Exactly, at least in the NBA during some of the timeouts they stay around and talk about the game instead of going to commercials. The NFL makes you watch more commercials than plays

MTS, I think Hts121's point was that 20-second timeouts aren't really 20 seconds.  When I'm watching a game on delay on my DVR, after a 20-second timeout is called and everyone has headed over to the sidelines, I can press the 30-second skip button and they're still huddled up on the sideline.  I press it again and they're walking back onto the court.  It seems as if the 20-second timeouts are really about 45 seconds.  And it seems that the 60-second and 100-second timeouts are about 3 minutes and 5 minutes respectively.

MTS, I think Hts121's point was that 20-second timeouts aren't really 20 seconds.  When I'm watching a game on delay on my DVR, after a 20-second timeout is called and everyone has headed over to the sidelines, I can press the 30-second skip button and they're still huddled up on the sideline.  I press it again and they're walking back onto the court.  It seems as if the 20-second timeouts are really about 45 seconds.  And it seems that the 60-second and 100-second timeouts are about 3 minutes and 5 minutes respectively.

 

I think it's like that for every sport.  I mean a 1 hour football game is 2:20 Minutes.

I understand that those last 2 minutes is that way for all of basketball. I'm saying basketball is flawed for those last two minutes. I understand this would never happen but I'd much rather they all put on pads and duke it out for the last 2 minutes or just have a special 2min ejection rule where they'll just eject you with no additional consequences in those last two minutes. For me it would be a more compelling game. Fouling being part of the strategy of the game is uncompelling. Fortunately for basketball it only gets ridiculous in the last 2min and I'll keep watching.

 

I disagree.  I think it adds in free throws as an important factor of the game, whereas they are minimally important throughout the rest of the game (unless you draw a lot of fouls).  It also gives you more of a feeling that the team that is behind at least has a chance to catch up.  It's kind of like the onside kick of football.  Fouling at the end may not make it likely that you'll come back and win, but it at least gives you a chance.  And it doesn't slow the game down nearly as much when there's not a timeout and commercials after every foul.

 

Even so, how many fouls did Boston commit in the last 2 min of the game last night?  Two?  Maybe three?  I know some games it gets ridiculous, but it only happens in close games and isn't always ridiculous even in close games.

MTS, I think Hts121's point was that 20-second timeouts aren't really 20 seconds. When I'm watching a game on delay on my DVR, after a 20-second timeout is called and everyone has headed over to the sidelines, I can press the 30-second skip button and they're still huddled up on the sideline. I press it again and they're walking back onto the court. It seems as if the 20-second timeouts are really about 45 seconds. And it seems that the 60-second and 100-second timeouts are about 3 minutes and 5 minutes respectively.

 

I think it's like that for every sport. I mean a 1 hour football game is 2:20 Minutes.

 

Yeah, but you're including clock stoppage for incomplete passes, in between quarters, halftime (which is actually surprisingly short in the NFL), etc.  I'm just talking about timeouts, and specifically "20-second timeouts".  If you're going to include the length of the timeout in the name of the timeout, the timeout should actually be that length.  If they're going to be longer than 20 seconds, but shorter than a full timeout, they should just call them "shorter timeouts".

MTS, I think Hts121's point was that 20-second timeouts aren't really 20 seconds.  When I'm watching a game on delay on my DVR, after a 20-second timeout is called and everyone has headed over to the sidelines, I can press the 30-second skip button and they're still huddled up on the sideline.  I press it again and they're walking back onto the court.  It seems as if the 20-second timeouts are really about 45 seconds.  And it seems that the 60-second and 100-second timeouts are about 3 minutes and 5 minutes respectively.

 

I think it's like that for every sport.  I mean a 1 hour football game is 2:20 Minutes.

 

Yeah, but you're including clock stoppage for incomplete passes, in between quarters, halftime (which is actually surprisingly short in the NFL), etc.  I'm just talking about timeouts, and specifically "20-second timeouts".  If you're going to include the length of the timeout in the name of the timeout, the timeout should actually be that length.  If they're going to be longer than 20 seconds, but shorter than a full timeout, they should just call them "shorter timeouts".

 

I hear you but blame the NBA. They need the $$$$

I hear you but blame the NBA. They need the $$$$

 

I'm not blaming anybody.  I'm just saying that NBA games get boring at the end because of these conditions, not because of some flaws inherent in the sport of basketball.