Now I grant you that nothing much is left in the Forgotten Triangle. But what kind of development are we going to put back there. Exclusionary stuff that's set back behind chain-link fences and big parking lots so only people with cars can reach these places? Or will the land use policy require accessible buildings fronted by mixed-use that are near the sidewalks on a low-speed, landscaped road with a bike path and attractive, comfortable and safe transit-waiting environments?

 

My friend, they can't even make sure that the kind of development you're describing goes up on Euclid Avenue, let alone in this disconnected, poverty-ravaged section of town.

 

Actually, ideally this thing would have gone in before the Euclid BRT, and they could have put things like mental hospitals and the like here rather than what was supposed to be our premiere corridor.

That's what happens when executives seek land use design that suit their personal needs rather than those of the people they are trying to hire.

 

Cons: ?????   Some old,  dead broke people who've lived in the area forever are going to have to move out of their dilapidated houses that they cannot sell for $10k anyhow?

 

Sounds like a SCAM!!! Props to the SCENE for such amazing investigative journalism!!!   whatever

 

Gee, that sounds like the same thing Albert Porter said to the folks who were in the way of the Willow Freeway (I-77) in the 1950s. They were pushed out and landed in Hough creating conditions so desperate that many of its residents didn't care anymore and rioted, burning 240 buildings, killing four people and injuring more than 30.

 

KJP that part of your post was extremely ill informed.  :| 

What part of that history didn't you like? .....

 

http://www.nhlink.net/ClevelandNeighborhoods/hough/hough.htm

 

Housing deterioration began to take hold in the depression of the 1930’s as owners of Hough’s relatively large houses were forced to defer maintenance and take boarders. Overcrowding and deterioration worsened in the 1950’s as Urban Renewal and freeway construction displaced thousands of lower-income African-American residents from nearby Central. The proportion of African-American residents in Hough climbed from 14% in 1950 to over 75% in 1960.

What part of that history didn't you like? .....

 

http://www.nhlink.net/ClevelandNeighborhoods/hough/hough.htm

 

Housing deterioration began to take hold in the depression of the 1930s as owners of Houghs relatively large houses were forced to defer maintenance and take boarders. Overcrowding and deterioration worsened in the 1950s as Urban Renewal and freeway construction displaced thousands of lower-income African-American residents from nearby Central. The proportion of African-American residents in Hough climbed from 14% in 1950 to over 75% in 1960.

 

 

Um I did my thesis on this subject, and I'm a federal employee in guess what? So yes I can criticize RTA as well...

 

Your trying to make some kind of parallel (because its such a similar time and place?) in what led up to and what happened in Hough through the 60's and the OCB is laughable.

You do realize the amount of civil unrest that was going on nation wide in the late 60's right?

I think your one of those people that is stuck in a paradigm of thought and time because you have never lived any where else.   :roll:  

How about starting the cleanup and buying out the remaining property owners and building the road and worrying about the zoning and development later?  Saying you're against the development before it's even happened doesn't make a lot of sense to me

How about starting the cleanup and buying out the remaining property owners and building the road and worrying about the zoning and development later?  Saying you're against the development before it's even happened doesn't make a lot of sense to me

 

Now that doesn't make sense.  This is a joke of an "opportunity" and as i've said, it's a highway pig without the lipstick. 

 

The money for this could go into other modes of transportation to move people throughout the city.  Not make an exclusive access road to take people from point a to point b never setting foot in-between.

Um I did my thesis on this subject, and I'm a federal employee in guess what? So yes I can criticize RTA as well...

 

I don't believe in resumes nor respect titles. I know plenty of people who work in a certain field and don't know sh!t about it. What's your point?

 

Your trying to make some kind of parallel (because its such a similar time and place?) in what led up to and what happened in Hough through the 60's and the OCB is laughable.

You do realize the amount of civil unrest that was going on nation wide in the late 60's right?

I think your one of those people that is stuck in a paradigm of thought and time because you have never lived any where else. :roll:

 

OK, why were African-Americans pissed off in other cities in the 1960s? Why were many urban highways built through the poorest, black neighborhoods while white, more affluent neighborhoods were often spared? Do you think African-Americans have come to trust the highway builders simply because the National Environmental Policy Act was passed more than 40 years ago that requires route alternatives to be developed and public hearings to be held before ANY federally funded public works project is selected? Most people on this forum have never heard of NEPA, let alone impoverished, under-educated inner-city residents. Distrust is the first thing they might feel when they see a highway builder coming to their neighborhood smiling and promising to treat them fairly. The record says otherwise.

 

Moreso, what use of the Opportunity Corridor will residents of the Forgotten Triangle enjoy when 50-70 percent of the households have no cars? Furthermore, if we design this corridor with exclusionary land uses that wholly support the use of cars then wouldn't you feel left out and intruded upon if you already lived in this neighorhood or have family there?

 

To them and many other inner-city residents, this road is viewed as a way for suburbanites to speed through their territory to reach University Circle. I'm not saying whether that's an accurate assessment or not. Nor does it matter. It's what they feel, believe and are worried about and we should listen to what they're saying -- for a change.

 

How about starting the cleanup and buying out the remaining property owners and building the road and worrying about the zoning and development later? Saying you're against the development before it's even happened doesn't make a lot of sense to me

 

Building the road is not the endgame. It's what occurs as the result of it. It's time we Americans recognize that the public infrastructure investment choices we make affect the physical form of cities for decades, if not hundreds of years. So it's important to determine our land use goals before we decide what kind of transportation investment to make.

This thread is going to take a bit of a time out, folks.

Actually trying to get to this "Forgotten Triangle" area for work again recently and remembered this thread.

 

Traffic on E.55th gets totally backed up with folks trying to head in that direction from 490 in the morning, opposite on the way home.  I know there are many on here opposed to the project for a variety of reasons, but I would hope some would at least acknowledge the need for a better route.  Currently, the only real way is to go up 55th, then back down Kinsman.  Cutting back to Bessemer is not a decent route and going down to Union is an even bigger waste of time.  I realize I'm probably going to get flamed for wanting to "zip through areas without stopping..." but it really is a difficult area to get to and the project is needed in some form or another.

I did not like the idea of this project at first but i have changed my opinion.  I think it would be great if the boulevard was built already and it would be a great location for the "Health Tech" Corridor as opposed to Euclid Avenue.  I think a connection from I77 to UC is needed as well.  Just my opinion.

I've been rethinking my initial opposition too.  Though I wouldn't want the Health Tech corridor there, the Op. Corridor would be ideal for less glamerous uses that would benefit from good transit and car access (like the new psych hospital).

 

In a ra! ra! article for the OC last year, the PD mentioned a similar project in St. Paul, MN. Phalen Blvd.  It's two lanes in each direction, with a landscaped median for much of the route.  There are at least some at-grade intersections, with left turn lanes.  It has a high quality pedestrian/bike trail along one side with pedestrian-scale lighting.  Here's a google streetview: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=16400+Fernway,+Shaker+Heights,+OH&sll=41.469831,-81.566343&sspn=0.002645,0.006539&gl=us&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=16400+Fernway+Rd,+Shaker+Heights,+Cuyahoga,+Ohio+44120&ll=44.965546,-93.077942&spn=0.002497,0.006539&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=44.965361,-93.078759&panoid=unvdP-OwJOCTZVhxd9TFvQ&cbp=12,95.5,,0,2.71

 

I would be OK if ODOT built it like that.  Two travel lanes in each direction, landscaped median with left turn lanes for at-grade intersections with all or most of E55th, Kinsman, E79th, Buckeye, Woodland and Quincy, but with timed lights favoring the new road.  A third lane for on-street parking in select areas near planned development sites.  High quality pedestrian landscape.  This strikes me as a good compromise.

^I like your aesthetic and architectural plans and scope for the project, but I don't necessarilly see the need to aim this at development along the opporunity corridor.  I see it as more of a bypass road/feeder road that can get you to UC quicker and leave roads like Euclid, Carnegie and Chester to be developed into dense commercial and residential zones.  I would hate to see a new "pretty" road be built between 77 and UC and get developed with everything we hope to see along Euclid, Chester and Carnegie.  Actually, I would like to see this road be built with light industrial off of it such as warehousing and distribution. 

 

Basically, I see this road to be used by people going to UC to do business, and to work rather than people seeking nightlife. 

I bet it gets used by east siders seeking nightlife in Tremont and OC.  I doubt we'll see a lot of dense residential being built along this road, not if we can't get it on Euclid. 

Yes, part of the point should be to get rid of the scattered housing that is left and move the few remaining residents to viable neighborhoods. 

This will not only help the city with maintaining areas with very few residents (allow to allocate resources and services better), but it will also help the remaining residents, many that have been there so that have been there so long that they dont even realize the situation the area is in, and also wouldnt bother to try to move (there house is worthless)to a better area where there are better amenities and services.. (This was done with much success in Baltimore, the relocated residents are much better off today, and the city has a productive area where is was once desolate and no longer viable as a neighborhood.     

 

Think of it as a variation of the Youngstown shrinking city's initiative.  It can be done as a greenway, with light industrial/warehousing, and medical/biotec closer to the Clinic. 

 

People there need to face reality.  Its not the 50's or 60's anymore.  These are dead areas (that aint coming back) that need to be re-proposed into something useful as opposed to the drain that it is today. 

^I get your point, but I also think this boulevard should strive to take as few homes as possible, and try to use zoning that would enhance, stabalize, and prep the residential clusters along the path for growth.

If there are any even somewhat strong cluster remaining I would say certainly, but Im not sure that there are.

 

We got an organization funding to do some preliminary focus work with the area.  I did a tour with some from DC that will be working on this, but havent yet gotten too deep into it.  I did talk to some residents and businesses, and the businesses are definately for it.  Many of the residents dont really understand it, and certainly want to be treated fairly.  (In Baltimore they ended up with much better houses than they left (and with nieghbors even))   

^I like your aesthetic and architectural plans and scope for the project, but I don't necessarilly see the need to aim this at development along the opporunity corridor.  I see it as more of a bypass road/feeder road that can get you to UC quicker and leave roads like Euclid, Carnegie and Chester to be developed into dense commercial and residential zones.  I would hate to see a new "pretty" road be built between 77 and UC and get developed with everything we hope to see along Euclid, Chester and Carnegie.  Actually, I would like to see this road be built with light industrial off of it such as warehousing and distribution. 

 

Basically, I see this road to be used by people going to UC to do business, and to work rather than people seeking nightlife. 

 

If this road is 100% bypass to shave 15 mins off the commutes of westsiders, I retract my support and can think of much more interesting ways to piss away $350M.  It's the development potential here that is the heart of the compromise.  I agree 100% that the development won't be (shouldn't be) traditional retail and residential- we're all on the same page there.  But there's no reason why that industrial/distribution whatever it is shouldn't be easily accessible from the two rapid stations located right there and to drivers coming from north and south of the immediate area.  Even with a few signaled intersections and only two travel lanes in each direction, this would be a much improved driving route from 490 to UC, no?

 

EDIT: Seriously is this such an objectionable/unreasonable vision of what an OC serving multiple purposes could look like?  http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=Phalen+Boulevard,+St.+Paul&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Phalen+Blvd,+St+Paul,+Ramsey,+Minnesota&ll=44.965257,-93.081585&spn=0.002482,0.006539&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=44.965251,-93.081754&panoid=nrVINGq0wIeXj9PAKaV2Pg&cbp=12,266.03,,0,0.13

Homes, businesses in Cleveland neighborhoods would be leveled to make way for Opportunity Corridor

Published: Saturday, September 18, 2010, 12:00 PM

Tom Breckenridge, The Plain Dealer Tom Breckenridge, The Plain Dealer

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- A number of homes, some existing businesses, even a few small churches, would be leveled in the Slavic Village, Kinsman, Fairfax and Buckeye neighborhoods to make way for the proposed Opportunity Corridor.

 

The project is a top priority of elected, business and neighborhood leaders, who say a dynamic link with Cleveland Clinic, University Hospitals and other economic engines could spin development into struggling neighborhoods.

 

Link includes a .pdf of the 3 alternatives for each of the 3 segments:

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2010/09/homes_businesses_in_cleveland.html

Straphanger, I agree with you that something like Phalen would be acceptable.  Hopefully it will be that well done.

this is road to nowhere.  I've said it from the beginning, this project is straight BS

At worst, its 14 homes, at best its 4.

I am a proponant of the OCB, but what are the odds that these houses are even occupied?

Say goodbye to the Red Line in a decade or so if this gets built without extracting the Red Line from "the freight ditch" and placing its tracks in the OCB's more visible, accessible and safer median.

I'm confused by these numbers... The article said from 4 to 14 residences would be demolished, but if you look at the graphic, alternative C for the western section alone would relocate 49!

Say goodbye to the Red Line in a decade or so if this gets built without extracting the Red Line from "the freight ditch" and placing its tracks in the OCB's more visible, accessible and safer median.

 

I agree this is a missed opportunity, but do you think the OC will actually hasten the Red Line's demise?

Not the boulevard itself, but the fact that RTA plans to run buses on it with stops along the road. For a transit agency that's hurting financially, I don't understand the desire to run two parallel transit services. Given the poor performance of the East Side Red Line, it's already a delicate service. But, too often, public agencies prefer to amputate than seek remedies. A parallel bus route not only might hasten the Red Line's demise but it makes it easier for East Side residents to accept it, or even prefer it over the existing "ditched" Red Line.

^Ah yeah, good point about new OC bus service.  It's kind of a tricky question though, IMHO. Right now the Red Line doesn't provide great service to some of the largest employers at University Circle (the Clinic, VA med center and even the northernmost cultural institutions), while express bus routes with a distribution loop could.  Hopefully new bus routes would mainly attract more new riders instead of cannibalize the Red Line.

this is road to nowhere. I've said it from the beginning, this project is straight BS

 

So you support the current traffic jam conditions that occur daily now at Woodland/Kinsman & 55th?  All that traffic trying to get over to 490 and cut over into the right lane is a nightmare.

 

Are you aware that CMHA is consolidating and relocating over 350 employees to the new campus headquarters at 79th & kinsman next year?  That'll be fun, watching all those folks try to leave work at 5 and make it to the highway...

 

Hate the project if you will, but you're in the minority on this one

Majority doesn't equal informed. And more pavement doesn't equal less traffic. Just ask L.A., Houston, Atlanta....

 

More pavement creates more traffic. It's more hair of the dog that bit you, like the alcoholic who drinks to get rid of his hangover. Only mixed land use, density and increased transportation choices reduce driving and create urban vibrancy. But let's keep banging our head against the wall...

Thanks for recapping Planning 101.  And we're a long freakin way from having traffic problems of LA, Houston or Atlanta...

So we should build more roads so that we create those kinds of problems?

I think you're arguing for the sake of argument.  This is essentially a dead area of the city that is contaminated, underutilized, and in dire need of new development.  The new Opportunity Corridor can buy out those people, clean up the land, create new development, all while curing one of the worst traffic backups in the city.  The new Land Bank already owns a good amount of the property here, why not give it a chance to add more parcels and really create an area within the city that can get some new life breathed back into it?  None of the cleanup or buying out the current residents is ever going to happen if left to the forces of the normal market or private investment.

There are benefits to this project other than increasing road travel connection to UC from the west side.

The "forgotten triangle" industrial areas could be poised for a rebirth for medical device manufacturing.  The new road will halp with transportation in and out, but also it will rememdy the brownfield areas the road goes through. 

 

Also, it is not a freeway.  If it were a freeway, I would be against it.  This is a new boulevard that will connect this area to the largest empoyment area in the state.  I can't think of any way the areas around the new road would not benefit from having it built.

I am not against the road, but I do wish the Red Line could be rerouted down the middle (like Shaker Blvd.).

I get all that. But census maps show that only 25-50 percent of the homes in the surrounding neighborhoods have a car available to them. So let's not kid ourselves who this project is intended to benefit. It's for the suburbanites to turn a since-vacated urban neighborhood that was built around walking and streetcars into something they can use by re-making it more like suburbia. And the only reason why this neighborhood was rendered prematurely obsolete is because we in Ohio would rather spend our tax dollars abandoning our historic walking/transit neighborhoods for new auto-centric suburbs. But our version of getting "urban religion" and attempting "to do the right thing" by helping the city is to remake the city we abandoned in the image of the suburbs.

 

I realize this won't be a freeway. It will be Chester Part II but with 50+ mph cars (OCB's speed limit will be 45). And I sure do love that urbanity and pedestrianism along Chester <<sarcasm>>.

To build a little consensus here...

 

I am resigned that OC is happening and that it won't include a re-routed red line.  However, even so, this area is and will be incredibly well served by our rail transit system and there is still opportunity to make sure that these stations are not completely forgotten about when the road is designed.  This means planning for a decent pedestrian environment along the OC and intersecting roads and designing crossable intersections, both to serve existing residents and also employees of future development.  If there really is a development bloom in this area, it should end up helping red line ridership.

 

I think 45 mph would be a mistake though.  The time savings this route will provide has very little to do with max speed- it's much more about traffic lights.  I'd cap it at 35 with the understanding that people will drive 45.  We're talking curb cuts for parking lots and some intersections in an urban area, so I'm not sure we want people driving over 50mph.

Strap, I'm also resigned to the fact this road will get built but that the Red Line will be ignored, marginalized and ultimately abandoned. This boulevard and the rail transit system could have been redesigned together to sow the seeds for a revitalized neighborhood that can be enjoyed by suburbanites and city dwellers alike. I just don't see that happening. Ironically, ODOT was interested in including the rail line in the design but RTA was not because Calabrese didn't think RTA could afford the local share of costs for relocating the rail line. So ODOT left the rail line out of the options.

Not a very highly attended meeting...maybe it's a correlation to the population...;)

 

Cleveland's proposed Opportunity Corridor generates anxiety and hope at East Side meeting

Published: Wednesday, October 06, 2010, 12:01 AM

Tom Breckenridge, The Plain Dealer

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- East Side residents had a mix of emotions -- fear battling hope, mostly -- as they eyeballed future routes for the proposed Opportunity Corridor on Tuesday night.

 

About 50 residents and officials gathered at Mount Sinai Baptist Church on Woodland Avenue to view plans and comment on the planned 2 3/4-mile boulevard that would link Interstate 490 at East 55th Street with University Circle.

 

Business and elected leaders, including Mayor Frank Jackson, support the project as a way to move traffic more efficiently to University Circle, while spurring development in the struggling neighborhoods of Slavic Village, Kinsman, Fairfax and Buckeye.

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2010/10/clevelands_proposed_opportunit.html

 

Not a very highly attended meeting...maybe it's a correlation to the population...;)

 

 

More likely, it's a factor of distrust or even helplessness. Considering how many times they've been pushed out of the way, I can understand if they believe the powers-that-be still couldn't care less what they think.

Are the costs of the OC a good point of comparison to the 3C?  Last I heard the OC was projected to cost $300-400 million for a 2 3/4 mile road.  Are these figures current?  Some people need a class on real transportation costs and the OC vs. 3C could be their first lesson.

Careful, you're developing a context. That's frowned upon in Ohio.

Opportunity Corridor's latest alignment would uproot more than 90 families, a dozen businesses

Updated: Monday, July 18, 2011, 7:34 AM

By Tom Breckenridge, The Plain Dealer

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- More than 90 families and a dozen businesses would be uprooted to make way for Opportunity Corridor, the boulevard that would link Interstate 490 and University Circle through the city's poorest neighborhoods.

 

After two years of study, planners for the city and ODOT have unveiled a preferred route that curves 2 3/4 miles, creates a half dozen intersections and makes way for expansion plans at Orlando Baking Co. and Miceli Dairy Products.

 

A committee of transportation, business and neighborhood leaders recently endorsed the 35 mph route's path.

 

READ MORE AT:

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2011/07/post_498.html

I have to say I'm pleasantly surprised by the plans (within the context of this thing getting built w/o a relocated rapid ROW).

 

Still way, way in the future, though, so I could imagine the plans changing:

 

Once a consensus is reached, construction would start no sooner than 2016 -- if funding can be found, officials said.

 

Amazing that even more demolitions would need to occur- with the amount of land which has ALREADY been cleared in the corridor.  Take a trip through there if you can- you'll feel like you're in the country when you're actually near the center of the city.

^I meant to say something about that in my post.  From the article, sounds like the big increase in demos is in St. Hyacinth as a result of the favored "quadrant roadway" option.  It's kind of a catch-22... this pattern would prevent the need for an at-grade intersection b/w 55th Street and the OC/490, improving access to the new Red Line station....but it would also destroy a significant chunk of the neighborhood that would benefit most from this access.  Would seem a lot better to put the quadrant roadway on the west side of 55th street, but maybe they explored that and it wouldn't work.

 

Also, I'm not quite sure I understand the potential pedestrian bridge to the new Red Line station the article mentions.  Would it somehow connect the station to the part of the neighborhood that's east of the proposed quadrant roadway?

Opportunity Corridor in Cleveland: Whatever happened to ...?

By Tom Breckenridge, The Plain Dealer The Plain Dealer

on November 26, 2012 at 8:00 AM, updated November 26, 2012 at 8:14 AM Print 

 

 

Whatever happened to Opportunity Corridor, the proposed boulevard between Interstate 490 and University Circle?

 

ODOT and roadway advocates are studying ways to pay for the long-sought project, which has no short-term prospects for funding.

 

Preliminary engineering continues on the 2¾-mile route. ODOT says much of the route needs to be one lane wider than originally proposed to handle the morning rush hour.

 

The 35 mph boulevard, estimated last year to cost $220 million, would move thousands of commuters and visitors from south and west of Cleveland more quickly to the Cleveland Clinic and University Hospitals, as well as the educational and cultural institutions in University Circle.

 

Just as important, advocates say, is the road's potential to spur development in downtrodden neighborhoods, including parts of Central, Slavic Village, Kinsman, Fairfax and Buckeye.

 

Business and community leaders say the project is a top priority. ODOT has spent $4.5 million on preliminary engineering and committed $11 million more in 2014 for detailed design.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2012/11/opportunity_corridor_in_clevel.html

Has an alternatives analysis been conducted for that rush hour lane? If you need one lane each way just for rush hour, then maybe you shouldn't build it because it will be the biggest money loser one can imagine....

 

"Construction costs for adding lanes in urban areas average $10–$15 million per lane mile. In general, the funding for this type of construction comes from taxes that drivers pay when buying gas for their vehicles. Overall, funds generated from gas taxes on an added lane during rush hours amount to only $60,000 a year (based on 10,000 vehicles per day during rush hours, paying fuel taxes amounting to about 2 cents per mile). This amount is grossly insufficient to pay for the lane addition."

 

SOURCE: http://ops.fhwa.dot.gov/publications/fhwahop08039/cp_prim1_02.htm

In case you haven't been there lately go visit the Opportunity Cooridor page at

http://www.dot.state.oh.us/projects/ClevelandUrbanCoreProjects/OpportunityCorridor/Pages/default.aspx 

On the front page go to Fall 2012 Project Updates  you will see three fairly recent pdf's that have been added. The fall newsletter has some good information and the aerial photos give a good indication of what we are dealing with. 

This is the proposed route:

While far from perfect, it is turning out somewhat better than I expected.

For concers that it would be an expressway, I count 13 traffic lights