July 6, 20168 yr Anyone who works in UC understands profoundly the traffic snarls presented by a lack of good roadway access. It is a constant back up on roads leading west out of UC, and MLK going towards I-90 is bumper-to-bumper. Most of these travelers aren't heading towards Midtown but to destinations south and west. That case was made pretty starkly in the original planning documents for the Opportunity Corridor. Plus finishing the OC allows the other routes to be worked on. Currently taking one of them out for construction would cause an epic CF.
July 6, 20168 yr I disagree with most of your points. I do agree that, until a few years ago under UCI and the Marons, UC suffered from poor urban planning-- it wasn't a direct fault of the highways, though this regions thurst for more and more urban highways like OC is symptomatic of the problem. But of course, UC is not the only greater Cleveland district that has suffered under this suburbanized thinking. U Circle has not suffered for a lack of highway access; that's just a widely perpetuated myth. The fact UC is now thriving without the OC pokes holes in that premise. In fact, the urbanizing effect of high quality mass transit has led in part to UC's success with both the Red Line and HL directly serving the area... Now that planners, like Chris Ronayne, Ari Maron and others have had the good sense to capitalize on this advantage and develop high-density and multi-use housing to accommodate it.
July 6, 20168 yr Also, most gentrification is not happening off I-90, it's in urban neighborhoods like Ohio City, Tremont, Shaker Sq and UC. That I-90 is adjacent to Tremont and near Ohio City is merely incidental. Many of the gentrifiers there are walkers, bikers and transit users.
July 6, 20168 yr Like many things, the question isn't whether the OC was needed (whatever that means) or will be useful, but whether it's worth committing $hundreds of millions in construction and maintenance costs over the next few decades when the tax base isn't expanding and other roadway costs are funded out of general budgets. I'd feel a lot more confident in that answer if the land use planning and ancillary neighborhood development strategy for the areas surrounding the corridor didn't seem so weak and behind schedule.
July 7, 20168 yr I used to commute from Maple Heights to UC, the OC would have made a huge difference. What route would you have taken? Maple Heights to UC is still going to be a challenge even with the OC. ^ Again you're only addressing one type of use by one type of person. And even then, if those commuters want dense mixed-use urban living, their choices are limited in the immediate UC area. That's not the fault of any road or freeway, that's bad planning policy on Cleveland's part and it has consequences. Forcing people to zig zag through a bunch of traffic lights solves nothing on the demand side. And believe it or not, lack of freeway access has been hurting demand in that area for a long time. Meanwhile most of Cleveland's gentrification is taking place right off of I-90. There is an abundance of land and space waiting to be redeveloped or "gentrified" within a 10 minute drive in any direction of University Circle. We should not be spending hundreds of millions of dollars to bend over backwards to cater to those that have chosen to live far from UC. Different parts of this region have pros and cons. People, particularly those that move far from the core, cannot expect to be able to have easy access to every single one of this region's assets.
July 7, 20168 yr There is an abundance of land and space waiting to be redeveloped or "gentrified" within a 10 minute drive in any direction of University Circle. We should not be spending hundreds of millions of dollars to bend over backwards to cater to those that have chosen to live far from UC. Different parts of this region have pros and cons. People, particularly those that move far from the core, cannot expect to be able to have easy access to every single one of this region's assets. But this is also catering to those who live in and around UC. Lack of access to the freeway system has held that area back for too long. Gentrification should have started there years ago. I think this project will help it along considerably. Some people didn't want it but others did, and the latter group is not entirely from Westlake. Not by a longshot. Besides, living in Westlake and working in UC is not a crime, even if it's not the choice I'd make.
July 7, 20168 yr The OC Boulevard, by attaching to E 105th St, really brings traffic directly toward Cleveland Clinic's main campus (bully for them). For those actually trying to get through those few blocks east to many University Circle destinations, heading east on Cedar, Carnegie, Euclid or Chester may turn out to be rather unpleasant. Connecting it where they did appears more CCF oriented than UC oriented. I don't know if connections further east say along the Short Line to Stearns and MLK were considered or even feasible. I also wonder if Buckeye will need widening, as people try to jump up toward Shaker Boulevard and points east. Amusingly. I - 290 was never built, but much of the travel demand it would have carried still exists. Many people loop around on I-77 to I-480, over the Valley View Bridge, and up to I-271). No wonder that bridge carries so much traffic. It is doing the job of two highways.
July 7, 20168 yr The OC Boulevard, by attaching to E 105th St, really brings traffic directly toward Cleveland Clinic's main campus (bully for them). For those actually trying to get through those few blocks east to many University Circle destinations, heading east on Cedar, Carnegie, Euclid or Chester may turn out to be rather unpleasant. Connecting it where they did appears more CCF oriented than UC oriented. I don't know if connections further east say along the Short Line to Stearns and MLK were considered or even feasible. I also wonder if Buckeye will need widening, as people try to jump up toward Shaker Boulevard and points east. Amusingly. I - 290 was never built, but much of the travel demand it would have carried still exists. Many people loop around on I-77 to I-480, over the Valley View Bridge, and up to I-271). No wonder that bridge carries so much traffic. It is doing the job of two highways. I understand your points, but I'd rather not resurrect Albert S. Porter from the grave by talking up the so-called, manufactured "demand" for his baby, I-290 aka the Clark Freeway. People in the Heights area, esp the lower (Shaker) Heights/U. Heights/Beachwood area have 3 choices to downtown: head in over city streets like Buckeye, Woodland (where I'm sure, many will shortcut on the OC once it's built) or through UC via MLK; loop around the the outerbelt freeways system (I-271, 480 and 77), or, of course, the Rapid... There is absolutely NO NEED to ram a wide, ugly, concrete neighborhood-splitting/destroying giant moat through the beautiful Shaker Square and Heights areas... This area has done well, and continues to do well, with the options we already have.
July 7, 20168 yr The OC Boulevard, by attaching to E 105th St, really brings traffic directly toward Cleveland Clinic's main campus (bully for them). Connecting it where they did appears more CCF oriented than UC oriented. Absolutely. As Staphanger laid out some time ago, the OC was originally an adjunct add-on to the necessary Inner Belt bridge rebuild-- a so-called Inner Belt "connector," and it was largely ignored until Toby Cosgrove the CCF honchos got into the ear (and pockets) of John Kasich and the Republicans. This road was, is and will always be about the egress/ingress ease of Cleveland Clinic docs and executives.
August 29, 20168 yr I'm happy to see that the city is sticking to its guns with regard to ensuring that the area surrounding this project is cleaned up. It certainly seems, based on the article, that the state, and the DOT, are reneging on some of the original intent of this road, and trying to push forth a mere expressway. That's not what was promised when we were sold on this project, and we should insist on something better. Opportunity Corridor is grappling ground for city, state By Jay Miller The city of Cleveland has stalled the transfer of city-owned land needed to complete the $331 million Opportunity Corridor because of wrangling between the city and the state of Ohio. In part, the hangup is caused by a new state law that makes illegal some of the terms of an agreement in place at the beginning of project construction in 2015 over hiring set asides. But the city also is waiting for assurances that money for environmental cleanup of future development sites and for new utilities along the three-mile boulevard that is planned to connect the end of Interstate 490 at East 55th Street with University Circle will be coming from the state. Without that financial support, the city fears, the roadway is just a faster way for travelers to get from the end of the freeway to the medical centers on the city’s East Side, not the spark that creates a new neighborhood. http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20160828/NEWS/160829870/opportunity-corridor-is-grappling-ground-for-city-state
August 29, 20168 yr Those dirty, rotten state republicans -- John Kasich included. Their agenda is to gut home rule and make big cities the wards of the state in order to further their conservative agenda statewide. Stick it to 'em, Frank.... I of course have been opposed to this crazy project from the get go and was disappointed in local leaders, Jackson included, for buying into it because I saw this coming. It has always to be a freeway in the minds of planners and all the neighborhood and transit enhancement enhancement talk was just a ruse go garner local political support. I just wish Frank and others had similarly seen this ahead of the fact... but now that this road is an inevitability, demand the residential and development perks the promoters were selling. John Kasich could give a damn about Cleveland's well being, only that his highway contractor cronies get their pockets juiced. I'm at least pleased that Frank is playing hardball with these clowns and not giving up an inch.
August 29, 20168 yr The city has historically been unwilling to pursue grants and follow through on remediation/demolition orders for long abandoned industrial sites. This isn't a new issue - it's been going on for decades. To expect the state to come in and magically wave a wand and remediate all brownfield sites *near* future OH 10 is great and all, but it's not a process that will be completed in one phase. The development of OH 10 is being segmented out, like all projects, and remediation of brownfield sites that were agreed upon will occur when work on those segments begins. And how is the local hiring ordinance such an issue? It was declared illegal and a law was passed to prevent such unfair hiring practices. It's what held up a CWRU project closer to Cleveland Clinic (thank your local ward boss for that). It's silly to think that instead of hiring proven, competent and low-bid companies that some want to force higher bids for the sake of potentially hiring a "local" company with underqualified workers.
August 29, 20168 yr Their agenda is to gut home rule and make big cities the wards of the state in order to further their conservative agenda statewide. Are you saying the state should not subsidize cities, or that they should do so without conditions or constraints?
August 29, 20168 yr I'm saying that the state should support cities to allow them to function to the maximum extent they can under the circumstances and not allow the legislature's party in power to implement its narrow political agenda. That is to not ram a highway through an urban area under the slick guise it is some kind of community development tool while, by the way, withholding funds for environmental cleanup surrounding this highway and disallowing the community its home rule abaility and right to favor local citizens as employees to build this road... And it also means not starving to death more healthy community focused programs like public transit for, once again, a narrow, insane republican political agenda like, as some GOPers love to ignorantly spout, that mass transit in essence only the supposed liberal agenda of "social engineering." The city is not the state's prostitute. That's what I mean.
August 29, 20168 yr They aren't withholding funds; those funds just have not been distributed because that phase of the project is not active. The state has only so much money to allocate each fiscal year and those phases are segmented out. The timeline of the project has been moved back and it's not for an agenda; it's budget realities. You are mistaking what home rule allows cities to do; it does not allow a city or government entity to circumvent state and federal laws. No entity is allowed to hire on the basis of location. In construction projects, where taxpayer dollars are used, state and federal hiring guidelines and policies must be followed, and a low bid must be accepted unless it differs in a few criteria - such as quality, past project performances, and composition, for instance. To hire on the basis that the contractor is based in Cleveland is silly; contractors should and have been hired based on performance metrics, cost analysis, and the overall bid package that the company proposes. And what defines a local? Someone who lives within Cleveland or someone who lives in the region? No company is comprised of people that live just in one city. Would you choose Contractor A from Cleveland if the bid is 10% over budget, has had no past projects on the scale and scope of roadway construction, has a bid package that is incomplete but 100% of its labor lives within Cleveland? Or Contractor B based in Mt. Vernon that submits a bid that is -5% under budget, has had a reputation for roadway construction, has a thorough bid package and has laborers that live throughout 8 counties surrounding Mt. Vernon?
August 31, 20168 yr Let's keep it to actual discussion of the Opportunity Corridor Boulevard. If you want to gripe about Cleveland politics, find another place to do so.
September 4, 20168 yr Those dirty, rotten state republicans -- John Kasich included. Their agenda is to gut home rule and make big cities the wards of the state in order to further their conservative agenda statewide. Stick it to 'em, Frank.... I of course have been opposed to this crazy project from the get go and was disappointed in local leaders, Jackson included, for buying into it because I saw this coming. It has always to be a freeway in the minds of planners and all the neighborhood and transit enhancement enhancement talk was just a ruse go garner local political support. I just wish Frank and others had similarly seen this ahead of the fact... but now that this road is an inevitability, demand the residential and development perks the promoters were selling. John Kasich could give a damn about Cleveland's well being, only that his highway contractor cronies get their pockets juiced. I'm at least pleased that Frank is playing hardball with these clowns and not giving up an inch. It's a huge injustice in situations like these when we send so much tax revenue to Columbus and then have to beg for only a portion of it back and it comes with stipulations that aren't necessarily in the best interest of our region.
October 12, 20168 yr Bad traffic jams on East 105th.... Opportunity Corridor construction closes lanes http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2016/10/opportunity_corridor_road_rest.html "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 18, 20168 yr Whenever I see a bunch of homes near each other getting demolished at the same time, it catches my attention. Turns out these are all houses in the path of Opportunity Corridor, east of East 55th near the RTA station.... http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2016/11182016/index.php EAST 2016-025 – Proposed Demolition of a 2-Story Residential Structure: Seeking Final Approval Project Address: 6213 Carpenter Avenue Project Representative: Steven Billington, County Land Bank EAST 2016-026 – Proposed Demolition of a 2 ½- Story Residential Structure: Seeking Final Approval Project Address: 2925 East 59th Street Project Representative: Steve Billington, County Land Bank EAST 2016-027 – Proposed Demolition of a 2-Story Residential Structure: Seeking Final Approval Project Address: 6119 Francis Avenue Project Representative: Steven Billington, County Land Bank EAST 2016-028 – Proposed Demolition of a 2 ½- Story Residential Structure: Seeking Final Approval Project Address: 6303 Francis Avenue Project Representative: Steven Billington, County Land Bank "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 18, 20168 yr Whenever I see a bunch of homes near each other getting demolished at the same time, it catches my attention. Turns out these are all houses in the path of Opportunity Corridor, east of East 55th near the RTA station.... http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2016/11182016/index.php EAST 2016-025 – Proposed Demolition of a 2-Story Residential Structure: Seeking Final Approval Project Address: 6213 Carpenter Avenue Project Representative: Steven Billington, County Land Bank EAST 2016-026 – Proposed Demolition of a 2 ½- Story Residential Structure: Seeking Final Approval Project Address: 2925 East 59th Street Project Representative: Steve Billington, County Land Bank EAST 2016-027 – Proposed Demolition of a 2-Story Residential Structure: Seeking Final Approval Project Address: 6119 Francis Avenue Project Representative: Steven Billington, County Land Bank EAST 2016-028 – Proposed Demolition of a 2 ½- Story Residential Structure: Seeking Final Approval Project Address: 6303 Francis Avenue Project Representative: Steven Billington, County Land Bank Hmmm, this is the neighborhood I was born in so I took a closer look, if these houses are in the literal path a lot more are coming down. I thought the OC was following Bower. All look in iffy shape on Streetview.
November 18, 20168 yr Whenever I see a bunch of homes near each other getting demolished at the same time, it catches my attention. Turns out these are all houses in the path of Opportunity Corridor, east of East 55th near the RTA station.... http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2016/11182016/index.php EAST 2016-025 – Proposed Demolition of a 2-Story Residential Structure: Seeking Final Approval Project Address: 6213 Carpenter Avenue Project Representative: Steven Billington, County Land Bank EAST 2016-026 – Proposed Demolition of a 2 ½- Story Residential Structure: Seeking Final Approval Project Address: 2925 East 59th Street Project Representative: Steve Billington, County Land Bank EAST 2016-027 – Proposed Demolition of a 2-Story Residential Structure: Seeking Final Approval Project Address: 6119 Francis Avenue Project Representative: Steven Billington, County Land Bank EAST 2016-028 – Proposed Demolition of a 2 ½- Story Residential Structure: Seeking Final Approval Project Address: 6303 Francis Avenue Project Representative: Steven Billington, County Land Bank This really sucks imho. Anytime people are thrown out of their houses for a commuting highway it sucks. I thought we learned from those mistakes of the 50s, 60s and 70s... And that absurd OC interchange at E. 55 is a waste of money, chops up the neighborhood and makes walking to the Rapid station that much more difficult. Terrible.
November 18, 20168 yr Whenever I see a bunch of homes near each other getting demolished at the same time, it catches my attention. Turns out these are all houses in the path of Opportunity Corridor, east of East 55th near the RTA station.... http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2016/11182016/index.php EAST 2016-025 – Proposed Demolition of a 2-Story Residential Structure: Seeking Final Approval Project Address: 6213 Carpenter Avenue Project Representative: Steven Billington, County Land Bank EAST 2016-026 – Proposed Demolition of a 2 ½- Story Residential Structure: Seeking Final Approval Project Address: 2925 East 59th Street Project Representative: Steve Billington, County Land Bank EAST 2016-027 – Proposed Demolition of a 2-Story Residential Structure: Seeking Final Approval Project Address: 6119 Francis Avenue Project Representative: Steven Billington, County Land Bank EAST 2016-028 – Proposed Demolition of a 2 ½- Story Residential Structure: Seeking Final Approval Project Address: 6303 Francis Avenue Project Representative: Steven Billington, County Land Bank This really sucks imho. Anytime people are thrown out of their houses for a commuting highway it sucks. I thought we learned from those mistakes of the 50s, 60s and 70s... And that absurd OC interchange at E. 55 is a waste of money, chops up the neighborhood and makes walking to the Rapid station that much more difficult. Terrible. Well fortunately there are almost no parallels to back then. Most of the homes that will come down are abandoned, and if not likely should be. If there are any that are occupied, there are plenty of other homes, better homes (nearby even) that they can move to. I assure you the homeowners will be compensated WAY MORE than they could ever get by putting their houses on the market. Which I know for a fact is the case for at least one of the few homeowners that this would actually affect. I cant see it not being a win win.
November 18, 20168 yr Whenever I see a bunch of homes near each other getting demolished at the same time, it catches my attention. Turns out these are all houses in the path of Opportunity Corridor, east of East 55th near the RTA station.... http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2016/11182016/index.php EAST 2016-025 – Proposed Demolition of a 2-Story Residential Structure: Seeking Final Approval Project Address: 6213 Carpenter Avenue Project Representative: Steven Billington, County Land Bank EAST 2016-026 – Proposed Demolition of a 2 ½- Story Residential Structure: Seeking Final Approval Project Address: 2925 East 59th Street Project Representative: Steve Billington, County Land Bank EAST 2016-027 – Proposed Demolition of a 2-Story Residential Structure: Seeking Final Approval Project Address: 6119 Francis Avenue Project Representative: Steven Billington, County Land Bank EAST 2016-028 – Proposed Demolition of a 2 ½- Story Residential Structure: Seeking Final Approval Project Address: 6303 Francis Avenue Project Representative: Steven Billington, County Land Bank This really sucks imho. Anytime people are thrown out of their houses for a commuting highway it sucks. I thought we learned from those mistakes of the 50s, 60s and 70s... And that absurd OC interchange at E. 55 is a waste of money, chops up the neighborhood and makes walking to the Rapid station that much more difficult. Terrible. Well fortunately there are almost no parallels to back then. Most of the homes that will come down are abandoned and if not they likely should be. If there are any that are occupied, there are plenty of other homes, better homes (nearby even) that they can move to. I assure you the homeowners will be compensated WAY MORE than they could ever get by putting there houses on the market. Which I know for a fact is the case for at least one of the few homeowners that this would actually affect. I cant see it not being a win win. While I agree that the "interchange" design is dumb, as I said I am somewhat familiar with this neighborhood. "Fair market value" compensation for the homeowners is indeed way more than they are ever likely to get on the open market. It's very doubtful any tenants have been there for more than a couple years. They will probably get something like "cash for keys" without having to do any cleanup, and there are other vacancies in the area. Win-win is a fair description.
November 18, 20168 yr Not unless it's an old person who has lived in that home for decades. There are many of these in older, poor neighborhoods like this. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 18, 20168 yr Not unless it's an old person who has lived in that home for decades. There are many of these in older, poor neighborhoods like this. I'm pretty sure you won't find any in this one, that aren't homeowners. Likely not even that.
November 18, 20168 yr I also just did a Google Street View of Bower St. (circa 2014). The street looked better than I'd thought. While 2 of the houses looked a little shaky, the rest looked suprisingly in tact, including a larger wood-frame double home at the corner of Bower and E. 61st even featuring hanging planters. There were a few empty lots, but the grass was cut and there was no trash... This makes me even angrier that these houses are being torn down, families uprooted for this useless quasi-freeway ... ... Oh excuse me, the OC is not useless as it will allow West Siders and their adjacent fellow suburbanites to zip to/from work in U. Circle while avoiding having to deal with City folk, and that's real important. Much worthier than spending $350M of our tax money on pointless stuff like badly-needed RTA rail cars, seeking EPA cleanup funding or creating TOD in the area along the OC route that's already well served by not 1 but 2 RTA trunk rail lines... After all, we've gotta cater to Toby Cosgrove and his executive CC cohorts and the like.
November 18, 20168 yr I get people'say issues with the OC. Now, even if the OC is just a glorified access road to the Clinic, UH and all the other institutions and employers that have made UC one of the few economic stars in Ohio, how is spending $300 million on a road to service those industries different from these huge tax breaks and other incentives companies are routinely given to get them to stay put?
November 18, 20168 yr I also just did a Google Street View of Bower St. (circa 2014). The street looked better than I'd thought. While 2 of the houses looked a little shaky, the rest looked suprisingly in tact, including a larger wood-frame double home at the corner of Bower and E. 61st even featuring hanging planters. There were a few empty lots, but the grass was cut and there was no trash... This makes me even angrier that these houses are being torn down, families uprooted for this useless quasi-freeway ... ... Oh excuse me, the OC is not useless as it will allow West Siders and their adjacent fellow suburbanites to zip to/from work in U. Circle while avoiding having to deal with City folk, and that's real important. Much worthier than spending $350M of our tax money on pointless stuff like badly-needed RTA rail cars, seeking EPA cleanup funding or creating TOD in the area along the OC route that's already well served by not 1 but 2 RTA trunk rail lines... After all, we've gotta cater to Toby Cosgrove and his executive CC cohorts and the like. I am sure if anyone is upset about having to move we will hear all about it from AS and her ilk. More likely they will take the buyout and use it as a security deposit for another place nearby. Oh, if I'm not mistaken if a rental property is sold for demolition you pretty much automatically get your deposit back.
November 18, 20168 yr I get people'say issues with the OC. Now, even if the OC is just a glorified access road to the Clinic, UH and all the other institutions and employers that have made UC one of the few economic stars in Ohio, how is spending $300 million on a road to service those industries different from these huge tax breaks and other incentives companies are routinely given to get them to stay put? Could CC have held the proverbial OC gun to Cleveland leaders' heads as a condition to remaining in Fairfax? I have no direct knowledge of this, but it wouldn't surprise me.
November 18, 20168 yr I get people'say issues with the OC. Now, even if the OC is just a glorified access road to the Clinic, UH and all the other institutions and employers that have made UC one of the few economic stars in Ohio, how is spending $300 million on a road to service those industries different from these huge tax breaks and other incentives companies are routinely given to get them to stay put? Could CC have held the proverbial OC gun to Cleveland leaders' heads as a condition to remaining in Fairfax? I have no direct knowledge of this, but it wouldn't surprise me. No way. That Heart Institute cost $500 million to build in 2005 dollars. The new medical school buildings is over $300 milion. The cost to rebuild the campus in any suburban location would cost many billions of dollars.
November 19, 20168 yr I get people'say issues with the OC. Now, even if the OC is just a glorified access road to the Clinic, UH and all the other institutions and employers that have made UC one of the few economic stars in Ohio, how is spending $300 million on a road to service those industries different from these huge tax breaks and other incentives companies are routinely given to get them to stay put? Could CC have held the proverbial OC gun to Cleveland leaders' heads as a condition to remaining in Fairfax? I have no direct knowledge of this, but it wouldn't surprise me. No way. That Heart Institute cost $500 million to build in 2005 dollars. The new medical school buildings is over $300 milion. The cost to rebuild the campus in any suburban location would cost many billions of dollars. Thank you 3231 for bringing logic and common sense to the previous comments. I find the histrionics about this project to be tiresome. Is it a good project? Probably not. Will it lead to economic development? We shall see. Are "families being uprooted"? Please. This is the silly hysteria I'm talking about from some commenters.
November 20, 20168 yr I get people'say issues with the OC. Now, even if the OC is just a glorified access road to the Clinic, UH and all the other institutions and employers that have made UC one of the few economic stars in Ohio, how is spending $300 million on a road to service those industries different from these huge tax breaks and other incentives companies are routinely given to get them to stay put? Could CC have held the proverbial OC gun to Cleveland leaders' heads as a condition to remaining in Fairfax? I have no direct knowledge of this, but it wouldn't surprise me. No way. That Heart Institute cost $500 million to build in 2005 dollars. The new medical school buildings is over $300 milion. The cost to rebuild the campus in any suburban location would cost many billions of dollars. Thank you 3231 for bringing logic and common sense to the previous comments. I find the histrionics about this project to be tiresome. Is it a good project? Probably not. Will it lead to economic development? We shall see. Are "families being uprooted"? Please. This is the silly hysteria I'm talking about from some commenters. Troll on good buddy... Maybe once you could, like, actually add something to a discussion. Guess that's asking too much.
November 20, 20168 yr I don't think he's trolling at all. I'm no fan of the OC, but you've been so consistently obnoxious regarding this project that I like it more and more with every one of your histrionic posts. And if you want to talk about adding something to the discussion, maybe you should come up with some new material instead of repeating the same points every few days. It's been very irritating for a very long time.
November 20, 20168 yr How is he making the same point every few days? This thread went over a month without a comment until a few days back KJP posted a list of properties from the planning website that would be demolished. Many are just assuming that these are worthless properties and that the people living in them (though few in number) get satisfaction from a bag of cash and orders to uproot and find someplace new to live.
November 22, 20168 yr As Youngstown and other cities have been doing with success, cutting off routine city services (street sweeping, pothole patching, light maintenance) to these dead neighborhoods and all-but-dead streets will allow for those residents to concentrate into areas where city services can be adequately accessed. In those situations, the residents will often refute any and all attempts to buy out their property at fair market value (because there is no need to pay an inflated price for those areas) and the city is left with no good situation. I did a drive by of those properties and it's not worth squabbling over. The area is depopulated; the streets all but abandoned in areas where there is no reasonable expectation to see residential growth in the next few decades. Redevelopment into other uses, for a highway, industrial, and commercial, is a far wiser bet. Bring on the OC. It's bringing much needed money, through Clean Ohio and federal dollars, to demolish a good number of abandoned industrial properties and a large amount of vacant houses and commercial properties. It's the fresh start that area needs.
November 22, 20168 yr As Youngstown and other cities have been doing with success, cutting off routine city services (street sweeping, pothole patching, light maintenance) to these dead neighborhoods and all-but-dead streets will allow for those residents to concentrate into areas where city services can be adequately accessed. In those situations, the residents will often refute any and all attempts to buy out their property at fair market value (because there is no need to pay an inflated price for those areas) and the city is left with no good situation. I did a drive by of those properties and it's not worth squabbling over. The area is depopulated; the streets all but abandoned in areas where there is no reasonable expectation to see residential growth in the next few decades. Redevelopment into other uses, for a highway, industrial, and commercial, is a far wiser bet. Bring on the OC. It's bringing much needed money, through Clean Ohio and federal dollars, to demolish a good number of abandoned industrial properties and a large amount of vacant houses and commercial properties. It's the fresh start that area needs. Exactly Sherman. I did the same analysis of the area and spoke to various residents of the area, and as I said previously, given the state of things and the state of the city overall, this is a win win for all involved. To suggest "we haven't learned anything from our mistakes from the 50's 60's etc. in this regard, has no relevance here and is an absurd comparison at best.
November 22, 20168 yr It's not as if it's ramming a highway through a populated area; it's not. The stakeholders involved isn't the few residents left; it's University Circle, CWRU, Cleveland Clinic, University Hospitals, the food industries concentrating in the Woodland corridor, and residents/businesses in neighborhoods that have population and have a shot at remaining relevant and viable (Shaker, University Circle, Midtown). To say that nobody wants this highway is absurd and completely baffling considering the comments and support raised by not only the stakeholders but business and industry owners.
November 22, 20168 yr My biggest frustration doesn't have as much to do with OC as the state's willingness to pay hundreds of millions of dollars on road projects and pretty much NOTHING on public transportation.
November 22, 20168 yr I don't think he's trolling at all. I'm no fan of the OC, but you've been so consistently obnoxious regarding this project that I like it more and more with every one of your histrionic posts. And if you want to talk about adding something to the discussion, maybe you should come up with some new material instead of repeating the same points every few days. It's been very irritating for a very long time. If you review the body of my 'obnoxious, histrionic posts' you'll find I rarely get on the 'property owners been wronged' bandwagon as it's obvious that this is a low population area. I do recognize, however, that every person who owns a home does have rights and I was only reacting to a post that suggested Bower Street was dilapidated where, in fact, Google Street view indicated otherwise. My main thrust has been that I continue to believe the Opportunity Corridor is a counterproductive waste of taxpayer money ... and I stand by that.... It was pitched as a means to spur economic development as well as TOD growth in the so-called Forgotten Triangle. In reality it is going to be a commuter highway/roadway that is an extension of I-490 and will aid commuting interest of West Siders accessing Cleveland Clinic, mainly, and perhaps UH as well. Mayor Jackson, belatedly, is seeing the light as he recently threatened to withhold local support without some show of commitment to development of the area. The facts are clear: this is a high-speed roadway being built to the tune of $330M (which will likely escalate well beyond this sum), will parallel and likely siphon off many Red Line rapid transit commuters to University Circle from the West Side while, at the same time, flood a ped-friendly area with more, unneeded cars... And, oh yeah, we're spending this huge sum for this highway while, at the same time, RTA -- especially significant parts of the rail system -- is dying a slow strangulation-by-stingy-budget death, thanks to our pols, esp in Columbus. OC promoters have pitched this project as "saving" University Circle, despite the fact that UC is currently thriving without OC -- in terms of employment, RE appreciation, growth and popularity, University Circle is likely the hottest urban neighborhood in NEO and perhaps the entire state. And, oh btw, it is also one of, if not the, best-served neighborhood in Ohio by mass transit ... a transit system, again, that stands to loose passengers to the OC... I don't see how anyone standing back and looking at all this logically and honestly could come away with any conclusion other than this whole project just doesn't compute. But it is a done deal now, and rather than giving deference to the planners and promoters of the OC, it is time to, like the mayor, push these individuals to make good on their promises of growth for this neighborhood. Drinking the Kool-Aid and walking away from this project is not the answer and, no, I'm not a Kool-Aid drinker. So X, I ask you to: a) refute my premise and b) give me hard evidence how this roadway will actually benefit the community (aside from a few CC commuters)? Can you do that?
November 22, 20168 yr The value in the OC will ultimately be decided by the development it spurs. The first of which is a massive parking garage at the terminus at 105th. I think that's also where the future Explorys office building will go. You can consider that a positive, or negative if you wanted them to locate downtown/midtown.
November 22, 20168 yr The parking garage has long been planned for Cleveland Clinic to replace several surface parking lots that were removed for the construction of research and hospital structures. You mean the first real development is the speculative medical office building (or commercial tenant? I can't recall) at that corner? Or Orlando Bakery that's rapidly expanding into the former Van Dorn property along the OC?
November 22, 20168 yr No, you can gloss over it all you want, but the first real development is the garage. The OC has been in some level of discussion for years. The location and timing of the garage is not a coincidence.
November 22, 20168 yr It's not as if it's ramming a highway through a populated area; it's not. The stakeholders involved isn't the few residents left; it's University Circle, CWRU, Cleveland Clinic, University Hospitals, the food industries concentrating in the Woodland corridor, and residents/businesses in neighborhoods that have population and have a shot at remaining relevant and viable (Shaker, University Circle, Midtown). To say that nobody wants this highway is absurd and completely baffling considering the comments and support raised by not only the stakeholders but business and industry owners. Exactly. This is at the very least a case of something being better than nothing. The area is pretty badly deteriorated, featuring plenty of urban prairies. Very few resident homeowners, I would be almost certain, and those who remain very likely to be looking elsewhere and quite willing to sell. Very few tenants who have put down any roots. I am more familiar with this area than most, and if someone wants to make the case that it’s any different (now…..not 20 years ago) I’d be interested in hearing it. I know there’s people who wanted to nucleate a dense transit oriented neighborhood in this area, but that idea was never practical. This has the potential to develop, connects UC not only with the suburbs but the airport, and allows the other routes between UC and downtown to be worked on without greatly inhibiting flow between the two. They didn’t build a highway they built a street, and they got Marie Kittredge on board whose urbanist credentials really can’t be challenged by anyone without a special agenda. It’s hard to imagine anything else they could have done that was practical.
November 22, 20168 yr I know there’s people who wanted to nucleate a dense transit oriented neighborhood in this area, but that idea was never practical. But that's just it, E Rocc. Did planners ever seriously attempt to develop TOD around the rail stations? I sure haven't seen it if they have... While the area is largely forlorn and vacant, there has been some light industrial growth, especially Miceli Dairy, which has significantly expanded its plant on E. 90th near Buckeye, and Orlando Bakery, which is expanding on Van Dorn's industrial cite at E. 79 near Woodland. KJP has noted the crazy EPA cleanup funding that is tied to road building, for some reason (IIRC), but he also pitched the logical idea of relocated the E. 79th Red Line station to at/near E. 89th and Buckeye and Woodland, ... but that fell on deaf ears, obviously.
November 22, 20168 yr This has the potential to develop, connects UC not only with the suburbs but the airport, and allows the other routes between UC and downtown to be worked on without greatly inhibiting flow between the two. UC is already connected very well to the airport and downtown by public transit (one seat fast train rides to both). As far as traffic goes, I don't understand the repeated claim by people that traffic is bad in this area. The time I have had to drive between University Circle and downtown at rush hour, I have never had a problem. And that includes all the times recently where lanes have been severely restricted on either Carnegie, Cedar, or Chester. There are four major parallel roads within a half mile of each other already connecting these two areas. Traffic is not a problem. The OC probably will only shave a minute or two off the trip from the west side and nothing at all from downtown. As far as it not being practical to develop at least some of this area near the rapid stations along East 79th into a dense, functional residential neighborhood, has anybody here heard of Fall Creek Place in Indianapolis? It was a neighborhood in similar condition. Some streets had only one or two houses left on them. Now it's a nearly filled neighborhood of several square miles of market rate/low-income (about a 50/50 mix) homes. It's really an incredible urban success story, and there's no reason we couldn't do even better in Cleveland near some of the rapid stations. http://www.fallcreekplace.com/about-fall-creek-place/
November 22, 20168 yr Exactly. This is at the very least a case of something being better than nothing. I generally agree. However -- They didn’t build a highway they built a street, and they got Marie Kittredge on board whose urbanist credentials really can’t be challenged by anyone without a special agenda. It’s hard to imagine anything else they could have done that was practical. That bridge and on-ramps planned for the E 55th intersection sure look like highway structures. That is the one thing that really should be reconsidered if this is not a highway. The intersection already works just fine in transitioning from I-490 to the street. And continuing I-490 as a surface street, avoiding the bridge and on-ramps, has to be a less expensive option to boot -- both in the building and the ongoing maintenance costs. I would also add that to have a sustainable city in the long run we need to consider the long-term roadway (and other public infrastructure) maintenance costs as part of the expense of any new infrastructure.
November 22, 20168 yr The intersection already works just fine in transitioning from I-490 to the street. And continuing I-490 as a surface street, avoiding the bridge and on-ramps, has to be a less expensive option to boot -- both in the building and the ongoing maintenance costs. ^^The GOP version of "social engineering." Highways are designed to let the residents of Westlake deal as little as possible with people from the "other side of the on-ramp."
November 22, 20168 yr Exactly. This is at the very least a case of something being better than nothing. I generally agree. However -- They didn’t build a highway they built a street, and they got Marie Kittredge on board whose urbanist credentials really can’t be challenged by anyone without a special agenda. It’s hard to imagine anything else they could have done that was practical. That bridge and on-ramps planned for the E 55th intersection sure look like highway structures. That is the one thing that really should be reconsidered if this is not a highway. The intersection already works just fine in transitioning from I-490 to the street. And continuing I-490 as a surface street, avoiding the bridge and on-ramps, has to be a less expensive option to boot -- both in the building and the ongoing maintenance costs. I would also add that to have a sustainable city in the long run we need to consider the long-term roadway (and other public infrastructure) maintenance costs as part of the expense of any new infrastructure. Are the sound barriers still a component of their "urban boulevard"? I have yet to see anything about this project that convinces me that it is anything more than bulldozing a highway through a poor black neighborhood.
November 22, 20168 yr Poor black neighborhood? That's generalizing it in racial terms that have no context. What about: barren, non-tax producing lots, abandoned houses and buildings, and contaminated Superfund and Clean Ohio lands? I'm thinking some people have not actually driven in the areas where the route is actually going (and have driven in adjoining neighborhoods instead). Someone asked how funding for the OC is tied to cleanup work. The project is receiving funding from a variety of sources, including federal dollars. As part of the highway project, the route's grounds must be cleaned of any contaminated soils. Additionally, part of the deal involved removing contaminated soils in adjoining industrial sites and removing hazardous buildings. These are things that could not have happened for well over a decade or more if the route was just state funded - if at all. Some of the buildings have taken millions of dollars just to tear down; it will take many millions more to remediate the soils. As for the route by E55 - that's Interstate 490 terminating into future OH 10. It will transition from a 60 MPH freeway into a 35 MPH urban boulevard. Considering the number of rear-end crashes at the current terminus at E55 (because of the abrupt transition), it is safer to bridge over E55 and connect SR 10 to E55 via an at-grade ramp. It's not an interchange.
November 22, 20168 yr This has the potential to develop, connects UC not only with the suburbs but the airport, and allows the other routes between UC and downtown to be worked on without greatly inhibiting flow between the two. UC is already connected very well to the airport and downtown by public transit (one seat fast train rides to both). As far as traffic goes, I don't understand the repeated claim by people that traffic is bad in this area. The time I have had to drive between University Circle and downtown at rush hour, I have never had a problem. And that includes all the times recently where lanes have been severely restricted on either Carnegie, Cedar, or Chester. There are four major parallel roads within a half mile of each other already connecting these two areas. Traffic is not a problem. The OC probably will only shave a minute or two off the trip from the west side and nothing at all from downtown. As far as it not being practical to develop at least some of this area near the rapid stations along East 79th into a dense, functional residential neighborhood, has anybody here heard of Fall Creek Place in Indianapolis? It was a neighborhood in similar condition. Some streets had only one or two houses left on them. Now it's a nearly filled neighborhood of several square miles of market rate/low-income (about a 50/50 mix) homes. It's really an incredible urban success story, and there's no reason we couldn't do even better in Cleveland near some of the rapid stations. http://www.fallcreekplace.com/about-fall-creek-place/ You're right about traffic -- between downtown and U.C. (Carnegie, Chester ... even Euclid if you can deal with the 1-lane thing) is generally cake, even during rush hour. The U. Circle traffic jams (and they're big ones-- which I like because it signifies urban health; esp where, like U.C., there's great transit to avoid the backups) are within U. Circle itself, and the main arteries east into the Heights -- Cedar and (especially) Mayfield Aves -- the latter of which is 1-lane from the Euclid-Ford intersection at Uptown up to the top of the Hill near the main Lakeview Cemetery entrance in the Coventry neighborhood. The many experiences from the 50s and 60s should have taught planners that added freeways (and freeway-lites like the OC) don't relieve traffic, they often actually make it worse. Detroit's a good example.
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