...take a lane off carnegie and calm it because many will choose the OC now, same for chester.  Remove some roads somewhere so that there isn't an increasing burden on a decreasing local population to pay to maintain the new and existing infrastructure.  ...

Chester is six lanes wide and Carnegie is five lanes wide. 

Your idea would make them easier to walk across. We need a budget for that, though.

 

 

how do You Explain My neighborhood?  Arab on my left, Appalachian White on my right and myself, black American in the middle?.

 

Please Stop, you have NO data to back what you say up. 

 

If you were to use a more modern and more Accurate Term for segregation is that it is segregation based on wealth not Race or even culture.

 

It's a qualitative, not a quantitative discussion.

 

So you mean it based upon your opinion not facts?

 

 

 

Segregation based upon race was wrong because it was based on something people could not control and could not change, and was based upon force if neccesary.

 

Interesting, So all people who cannot drive due to wealth health or age deserve to be segregated?

 

 

Economic and cultural segregation are not based on force, but on individual decisions.  Most people prefer to live around those with whom they share basic values.  College kids and retired people, for example, may not make the best of neighbors. 

 

So the fact that people lack the financial wherewithal to own a car means they choose to be segregated?

 

You saying most people is meaningless without data to support it.

 

 

In a free society, those patterns will manifest themselves in spite of attempts by government and/or activists to promote otherwise.  Such actions, flying in the face of individuals with the wherewithal to resist, are destined to fail.  Tax money is wasted, and there can be other unintended consequences as well.

 

I wish what you said were true, because government policies that incentivize sprawl have nothing to do with "free society". this road is perfect example of this.

 

how can you complain bout government waste, then this project represents social engineering at it's best.  If it is Worth building why doesn't the private sector build it?

 

 

Free society?  Charge a 50 cent toll and see how many people still want this project.

 

Interesting, So all people who cannot drive due to wealth health or age deserve to be segregated?

 

 

Do people “deserve” to be segregated according to economic class or lack of private transportation?  It’s really not a matter of “deserving”.  In a free society, those with the means to live apart from those who they feel have different values.  At best, it’s their prerogative.  At worst, it’s something they desire strongly enough to make it happen despite any government “nudges” the other way.

 

You may not approve.  Others may not approve.  However, enforcing your “approval” upon the very way they live their lives is ideologically the equivalent of them doing so upon you.  It’s best that it not happen, at least not through the use of coercion (which, of course, is the root of actual enforcement).  But if it does happen, it becomes a matter of political clout.  It goes back to the old not-so-common sense rule of legislation:  “Never support a law you don’t want to see the other side enforcing.”.

 

It’s a case where the “cure” is far worse than the illness.

 

Let's keep the conversation on the pros and cons of building this road, and the features it should have. 

Opportunity Corridor, Inner Belt Bridge get turnpike commission commitment

 

The commission allocated $39 million for the Opportunity Corridor’s first phase, focused on improvements to 105th St. near the University Circle area.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2013/09/opportunity_corridor_inner_bel.html

^It is interesting to note that widening of I-271 in Summit county is getting 50% more money than the opportunity corridor. 

 

I am interested in seeing if they people protest the opportunity corridor will protest this, or are they just against projects in the city.

^I think most of the people protesting the project is because in their minds it is not urban friendly not because money is being spent in Cleveland.  They would love the state to be spending more $$$ in the city on projects they think are worth while (I would imagine most of that group would like enhanced mass transit).

^It is interesting to note that widening of I-271 in Summit county is getting 50% more money than the opportunity corridor. 

 

I am interested in seeing if they people protest the opportunity corridor will protest this, or are they just against projects in the city.

 

I don't support the 271 widening either, but there are reasons to protest a road project through urban areas that have nothing to do with money.

^Please list them and we can discuss if that is indeed the case with this road.  Many people still think this is a freeway, with exit ramps.  Its not.

^It is interesting to note that widening of I-271 in Summit county is getting 50% more money than the opportunity corridor. 

 

I am interested in seeing if they people protest the opportunity corridor will protest this, or are they just against projects in the city.

 

It will probably alleviate about 50% more congestion, which contrary to the opinions of some is more often than not an example of poor planning (as it certainly was with 271) or neglect (very much the case with the OC's area).

^Please list them and we can discuss if that is indeed the case with this road.  Many people still think this is a freeway, with exit ramps.  Its not.

 

Is this line of questioning going to get us anywhere we haven't already been on this thread a dozen times or more?

^Probably not, but there is still a lot of misinformation being presented as facts about this project.

Many people still think this is a freeway, with exit ramps.  Its not.

Yup, devided highway with sound walls and limited intersections, but it doesn't have exit ramps so it's not a freeway. Just like route 8 through Boston Heights, oh wait, they added ramps to that didn't they? So it's like 224 in Akron, no wait it has exits too until it gets out to the middle of nowhere. 14 through Streetsboro doesn't have exits and is attached to the end of a freeway like this, but it's not divided and doesn't have sound walls to try and hide the WalMart and other big box stores so it's at least trying to interact with its neighborhood. SOM Center in Eastlake is a decent comparison and it forms an obvious barrier to the neighborhood but at least it includes a bike lane and leaves out the walls.

Great example. 

There are no sound walls anywhere in the plan.

It is divided by a grassy median, much like Monticello in Cleveland Hts.

 

It's not a freeway.  Its a 3 mile road that has 12 traffic lights at intersections.  It has sidewalks and a bike trail.

 

There are no sound walls anywhere in the plan.

 

 

Actually, there are.....

 

^Where is that from?

EDIT: I stand corrected.  Why just there, and one other spot for 500-600ft?  Maybe it was requested by the neighbors?  I think its a waste of money. 

 

 

http://www.dot.state.oh.us/projects/ClevelandUrbanCoreProjects/OpportunityCorridor/Documents/Preferred%20Alternate%20Aerial%20Images.pdf

^Where is that from?

 

 

A friend who wishes to remain nameless.

It is divided by a grassy median, much like Monticello in Cleveland Hts.

 

It is divided by a grassy median, much like Heisley Road in Grand River.

^Never been there, but based on google maps it does not look like it has many traffic lights, or intersections.

There are not a lot of streets in the city that have grassy medians, so it is hard to make a comparison.

 

Once Clifton has its grassy median, I think that will be the closest comparison.  Going from freeway speeds to a boulevard.

For comparison sake, how about Route 18 between 71 and 77...from an infrastructure standpoint. 

As I said pages ago, Chester between East 55th and East 9$rd is the closest comparison to this road. Check it out.

^Where is that from?

EDIT: I stand corrected.  Why just there, and one other spot for 500-600ft?  Maybe it was requested by the neighbors?  I think its a waste of money. 

 

 

http://www.dot.state.oh.us/projects/ClevelandUrbanCoreProjects/OpportunityCorridor/Documents/Preferred%20Alternate%20Aerial%20Images.pdf

 

Note the words "potential".  There might be some schools or medical facilities close by.

As I said pages ago, Chester between East 55th and East 9$rd is the closest comparison to this road. Check it out.

The smaller roads along Chester that don't have lights still allow for right turns to give access to the neighborhood.

CTEs Analysis of the Opportunity Corridor Brownfields Report

 

view the entire report here.

http://opportunitycorridor.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/2013-03-25-opportunity-corridor-brownfields-report-draft-email.pdf

 

 

According to the plan, if these Superblock parcels are fully developed with almost a million square feet of manufacturing and distribution space, by 2039 546 permanent jobs and 461 temporary jobs will have been attracted to the target area

 

that is like 500,000 dollars per job.

The smaller roads along Chester that don't have lights still allow for right turns to give access to the neighborhood.

 

That's assuming the city still wants residential uses along the OC to remain. Based on their land use plan, I'd say they don't. They want light industry, warehousing, etc.

That's assuming the city still wants residential uses along the OC to remain. Based on their land use plan, I'd say they don't. They want light industry, warehousing, etc.

 

... which already exists, and is expanding in the area, like the recently greatly expanded Miceli Dairy plant at 90th & Buckeye; the plan for Orlando Bakery to demolish the empty Van Dorn factory building and expand there (at  E. 79th & Grand Ave), and others that are happening well BEFORE and SEPARATE FROM this Opportunity Corridor highway boondoggle... More would happen if the PD, the Clinic and other power brokers around here weren’t so eager to jump in bed with the sleazy John Kasich and his ODT contractor buddies to shove this highway through the city at taxpayer expense, but rather, focused on seed money for growth in the area as well as cheaper, more logical improvement of roads and mass transit in the neighborhood...

 

... methinks this OC is also a backdoor deal for Juvenile Court judges and other personnel from the West Side, who strenuously objected to the relocation of the giant JJC near E. 105 & Quincy, so they didn't have to drive though those "bad areas" commuting to/from work.

 

 

...jump in bed with the sleazy John Kasich and his ODT contractor buddies to shove this highway through the city

 

Was this a plan started by the state or did it start locally. And did John Kasich start this project, or did he just support a plan that is otherwise local?

 

I don't know the details but I'm guessing its the later.

^Where is that from?

EDIT: I stand corrected.  Why just there, and one other spot for 500-600ft?  Maybe it was requested by the neighbors?  I think its a waste of money. 

 

 

http://www.dot.state.oh.us/projects/ClevelandUrbanCoreProjects/OpportunityCorridor/Documents/Preferred%20Alternate%20Aerial%20Images.pdf

 

Note the words "potential".  There might be some schools or medical facilities close by.

 

Well, there is no reason for a sound wall for a 35MPH boulevard.  This a something to hold ODOT and the city's feet to the fire.  They have made dozens of improvements to the original plan, and I like the current plan.  They can not be allowed to slip back and bring in freeway elements.

The smaller roads along Chester that don't have lights still allow for right turns to give access to the neighborhood.

 

That's assuming the city still wants residential uses along the OC to remain. Based on their land use plan, I'd say they don't. They want light industry, warehousing, etc.

 

Of course they do. 

 

Residential  development without commercial  development means no jobs in the vicinity.  Residents are either unemployed, or work elsewhere.  Perhaps in the suburbs.  In other words, tax consumers.

 

Commercial, on the other hand, means tax producers,  It’s either jobs for city residents, or income taxes from suburbanites who might otherwise work in the suburbs.

 

If healthy residential development of the type most here prefer springs up in this area, it’s a bonus.  But it will be because of, not in spite of, the commercial development.

BTW, I wasn't stating an opinion. In fact, I don't have much of an opinion on this road. So if you want to have some fun debating me, save your time for something else.

BTW, I wasn't stating an opinion. In fact, I don't have much of an opinion on this road. So if you want to have some fun debating me, save your time for something else.

 

Hey, I was agreeing with you lol.

 

Seriously, it's a key point to consider vis a vis the development of this road. 

If anyone is interested, at Ingenuity Fest this Friday they are having a series of discussions called The Cleveland Salon (theclevelandsalon.com). The topic at 6pm on Friday (9/20/13) will be the Opportunity Corridor

 

Topic: Opportunity Corridor

 

The state of Ohio is planning a $350 million new “corridor” for the east side of Cleveland. The project dates back to the 1960s in some forms, and is a sort of later embodiment of the doomed “Clark Freeway.” Although Governor John Kasich recently pledged more than $200 million in state money to the “Opportunity Corridor,” there is a growing grassroots opposition movement that questions the need for an additional road in the city of Cleveland and wonders whether this is the same old urban renewal-era, highway thinking that has caused so much damage to urban neighborhoods.

 

Thought Leaders: Angie Schmitt and Clevelanders for Transportation Equality

If anyone is interested, at Ingenuity Fest this Friday they are having a series of discussions called The Cleveland Salon (theclevelandsalon.com). The topic at 6pm on Friday (9/20/13) will be the Opportunity Corridor

 

Topic: Opportunity Corridor

 

The state of Ohio is planning a $350 million new “corridor” for the east side of Cleveland. The project dates back to the 1960s in some forms, and is a sort of later embodiment of the doomed “Clark Freeway.” Although Governor John Kasich recently pledged more than $200 million in state money to the “Opportunity Corridor,” there is a growing grassroots opposition movement that questions the need for an additional road in the city of Cleveland and wonders whether this is the same old urban renewal-era, highway thinking that has caused so much damage to urban neighborhoods.

 

Thought Leaders: Angie Schmitt and Clevelanders for Transportation Equality

 

Hmmm.....no attempt at balancing the discussion I see.

 

(Note:  not criticizing the poster by any means....)

"...and wonders whether this is the same old urban renewal-era, highway thinking that has caused so much damage to urban neighborhoods..."

 

I'm all for healthy debate on this project but that's flat out scare tactics to get your message across.

Yes, because the status quo is so healthy for this urban neighborhood. 

 

And yet, I-271 is being expanded in Summit county, and I think everyone on this board is educated enough to know how sprawl works, make the road out of town bigger to accommodate the people who are there, and it attracts more people and more jobs.

 

Jobs, I might add, will be brought to areas that are not friendly to unions.  Want to chart the decline of unions in this country, chart the amount of jobs that shifted from the city cores to the exurbs.

 

So, these smart, wonderful, college educated, privileged people, will spite the city of Cleveland and the residents of that area because they will not get any direct benefit from the new road because no one they know lives in that area or works in a "dirty factory"

 

The expanded I-271?  They may have friends and family out there, and it would be nice for them to have less traffic.

"...and wonders whether this is the same old urban renewal-era, highway thinking that has caused so much damage to urban neighborhoods..."

 

I'm all for healthy debate on this project but that's flat out scare tactics to get your message across.

 

Hey, blame Andrew Samtoy [samtoy!!!!], this is his brainchild. If we want a balanced debate, then the debate must be balanced. Attend the event and share your opinion. I don't think this is a sit and listen type event. Maybe it is. Hell, I don't know.

 

Full disclosure: I'm still on the fence about this road. Also, I won't be there

EVERYTHING you ever wanted to know about the OC is in this just released 121 page PDF.

http://www.dot.state.oh.us/projects/ClevelandUrbanCoreProjects/OpportunityCorridor/Documents/Cleveland%20Opportunity%20Corridor%20Project%20DEIS.pdf

 

Also

Make Opportunity Corridor a sustainable neighborhood

Marc Lefkowitz  |  09/16/13 @ 1:00pm  |  Posted in Vibrant cities, Transportation choices

 

http://www.gcbl.org/blog/2013/09/make-opportunity-corridor-a-sustainable-neighborhood

Love the OC, hate the OC, or like some parts and worry about others, take the quick survey ODOT has on their website.  It took just a few minutes. 

 

UrbanOhioans are probably the most educated people in the state on urban planning, and everyone's thoughts should be considered

 

https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/OCPublicHearingCommentForm

 

 

Emailed from universitycircle.org..........

 

Opportunity Corridor Public Meeting:

October 1, 2013 4:00 p.m.-8:00 p.m.

The Ohio Department of Transportation invites you to attend a Public Hearing on the Draft Environmental Impact Statement (DEIS) for the Opportunity Corridor Project.

 

When: Tuesday, October 1, 2013 from 4:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m.

Where: Mt. Sinai Baptist Church at 7510 Woodland Avenue, Cleveland, Ohio 44104

 

The proposed scope of the project includes the reconstruction of 0.3 miles of I-490; construction of a new 2.2 mile arterial roadway connecting I-490 at E55th Street with E105th Street at Quincy Avenue; and the reconstruction and widening of 1.0 miles of E105th Street from Quincy Avenue to just north of Park Lane. The new roadway is part of a 5.38 mile proposed extension of State Route 10 and a 0.09 mile proposed eastward extension of I-490.

 

In accordance with the National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA), the purpose of this hearing is to provide an opportunity for review and comment on the project's DEIS and for citizens to provide feedback through written or recorded verbal comments. Comments received (at the meeting, by mail, on the web, email, or fax) by 5 p.m. on Thursday, October 31, 2013 will be considered in the Final Environmental Impact Statement.

 

This public hearing will be held in an open-house format with a formal presentation beginning at 5:30 p.m., immediately followed by a public verbal comment period after 6:00 p.m. Those wishing to give a public verbal comment will be asked to pre-register at the hearing. Respondents should expect to limit their statements to two (2) minutes each. If you have any questions, please call 216-584-2007. 

A press release.........

 

Opportunity Cost of the Opportunity Corridor

by Policy Matters Ohio on October 1st, 2013

 

More than 25 percent of Cleveland residents either carpool to work or commute via public transit, walking or biking; 11.5 percent of commuters have no access to a vehicle. Given the city’s commitment to sustainability, clean air, and vibrancy and equity in its urban core, Cleveland should consider alternatives built around public transit that include safe routes for pedestrians and cyclists. 

 

For immediate release

Contact Amanda Woodrum, 330.780.8321

 

Cleveland should consider alternatives

The Federal Highway Administration estimates the cost of building Cleveland’s Opportunity Corridor at $331.3 million, including final design, project administration and management, land acquisition, utility relocation, implementation of environmental commitments and mitigation measures, and construction activities.[1] In making a decision about funding for the Corridor, the Ohio Department of Transportation developed and analyzed four alternatives – all road corridors.

 

Not evaluated were alternative transportation options like improved bus service, bus rapid transit with a dedicated guideway, electrified bus transit, electrified streetcar, monorail, or light rail.

 

More than 25 percent of Cleveland residents either carpool to work or commute via public transit, walking or biking, and 11.5 percent of Cleveland’s commuters have no access to a vehicle. Further, the city has a commitment to sustainability, clean air, and promoting vibrancy and equity in its urban core. Given these realities, Cleveland should consider alternative transportation choices that are built around public transit and include safe routes for pedestrians and cyclists.

 

Below are examples of potential alternatives that would cost less than the Corridor’s $331 million:

 

For $133 million, Cincinnati is building an electric streetcar system that will run 18 hours a day, 365 days a year on a 3.6 mile loop. Would something like this make sense for Cleveland?

A number of projects on Cleveland’s transit to-do list could be completed for less:

Replace outdated railcars for $210 million;

Extend the Blue line south and east for $40 million;[2]

Extend the Red line and/or the Health line east;[3]

Build a new Brookpark Rapid Station for $16.5 million.[4]

For $200 million, Cleveland could replace most of its fleet with CNG buses, cutting fuel costs and reliance on imported oil.[5] For $331 million, it could switch mostly to electric buses.

The Norfolk Southern rail line, which runs along the proposed Opportunity Corridor, could be upgraded for commuter rail purposes.

Alternatives like these should be explored before committing to an expensive road project.

 

- See more at: http://www.policymattersohio.org/opportunity-oct2013#sthash.CVRiLIW7.dpuf

It should be noted that if funding is blocked for the opportunity corridor, it can't be redirected to public transportation, it goes to the project that scored slightly lower.

 

If people are serious about changing transportation funding priorities it should lobby Columbus to change the formula on how projects are scored.

 

it's not likely at this point, but if the Opportunity Corridor is not funded, that money will be used to expand sprawl elsewhere in the state, with zero, or negative economic impact to the city of Cleveland.

 

NOT KJP, but for others it's simply dishonest to try to rally people to block the OC and sell the idea that the money will still be spent in Cleveland for public transportation.

It should be noted that if funding is blocked for the opportunity corridor, it can't be redirected to public transportation, it goes to the project that scored slightly lower.

 

If people are serious about changing transportation funding priorities it should lobby Columbus to change the formula on how projects are scored.

 

it's not likely at this point, but if the Opportunity Corridor is not funded, that money will be used to expand sprawl elsewhere in the state, with zero, or negative economic impact to the city of Cleveland.

 

NOT YOU KJP, but it's simply dishonest to try to rally people to block the OC and sell the idea that the money will still be spent in Cleveland for public transportation.

 

I agree--this would be the equivalent of Kasich sending federal dollars for another state to spend.  I'll show me!

 

Rather than fight this, we should lobby to make it as good as it can be.

It should be noted that if funding is blocked for the opportunity corridor, it can't be redirected to public transportation, it goes to the project that scored slightly lower.

 

If people are serious about changing transportation funding priorities it should lobby Columbus to change the formula on how projects are scored.

 

it's not likely at this point, but if the Opportunity Corridor is not funded, that money will be used to expand sprawl elsewhere in the state, with zero, or negative economic impact to the city of Cleveland.

 

NOT KJP, but for others it's simply dishonest to try to rally people to block the OC and sell the idea that the money will still be spent in Cleveland for public transportation.

 

Yeah, that's the ridiculous part of this whole debate.  Projects are funded based upon their merits, and playing Sim City in what's unfortunately become a wasteland between two major economic centers didn't make the cut.  Blocking the project which did will only divert the money to the next project in line.

 

It should be noted that if funding is blocked for the opportunity corridor, it can't be redirected to public transportation, it goes to the project that scored slightly lower.

 

If people are serious about changing transportation funding priorities it should lobby Columbus to change the formula on how projects are scored.

 

it's not likely at this point, but if the Opportunity Corridor is not funded, that money will be used to expand sprawl elsewhere in the state, with zero, or negative economic impact to the city of Cleveland.

 

NOT KJP, but for others it's simply dishonest to try to rally people to block the OC and sell the idea that the money will still be spent in Cleveland for public transportation.

 

However.... That's fear-based planning. So we're building a road to keep the dollars from leaving Cleveland? I've never seen that be included as a rationale or vision in a transportation project's Purpose & Need. The fact is ODOT apparently didn't follow the NEPA process by considering non-highway alternatives during the screening as this project was spun out of the Inner Belt process. So if any federal dollars are used in this project, that lack of consideration of non-road alternatives could be illegal under NEPA and could force ODOT to go back and start the planning over again if so compelled by a judge.

 

BTW I do think this item is interesting if this project continues as-is.....

 

I think there is case to be made that, even if you give them the benefit of the doubt that the road would provide benefits, that they are in fact going about it completely backwards.

 

The model for the OC, Phalen Blvd in St Paul, had 6 years (1995-2001) of brownfield cleanup and anchor tenant development BEFORE a single piece of the Boulevard was laid down (2001-2005).

 

Couple that with the fact that Phalen cost half the price per mile (inflation adjusted), had a smaller ROW (2-4 lanes), included both a bike trail connection and bike lanes, and took zero residential structures.

 

Its pretty clear that they didn't even stick to their own playbook.

 

https://www.facebook.com/download/1415714241979050/Phalen%20Blvd%20Article.pdf

^I could care less where the money goes if we don't build this road, be it Columbus ... or Timbuktu, if we're building roads just to spend govt. money allotted to Cleveland, regardless if it's as bad and dumb a project as the OC, then we're truly screwed up in our mindset, and we need to shut up the double-talk about the dense and walkable city we allegedly desire.

^I could care less where the money goes if we don't build this road, be it Columbus ... or Timbuktu, if we're building roads just to spend govt. money allotted to Cleveland, regardless if it's as bad and dumb a project as the OC, then we're truly screwed up in our mindset, and we need to shut up the double-talk about the dense and walkable city we allegedly desire.

 

Unfortunatly I don't think Cleveland wants to a dense walkable city that competes with other cities. It wants to compete with suburbs by following the suburban model which is a lost cause and will hurt Cleveland in the end.

 

Additionally 3C rail supporters always used the argument against Kasich that the money had to be spent on rail so we might as well build it or some other city will get the money.  They used that logic and now rip on those who use that logic for this project.  Can't have it both ways.

Additionally 3C rail supporters always used the argument against Kasich that the money had to be spent on rail so we might as well build it or some other city will get the money.  They used that logic and now rip on those who use that logic for this project.  Can't have it both ways.

 

I don't really see the conflict there, actually.  The reason why the "spend it or lose it" argument worked for the 3Cs was because the opposition focused on the supposed expense of the project (or more precisely some notional cost/benefit analysis).  I don't think anyone objected to having a rail service, per se.  This OC situation is pretty different.

Besides, much of the opposition is ok with the road being built, just dislikes the design.

Whether it’s on Cleveland.com or here, discussion of the OC inevitably moves towards overall strategy and vision vis a vis sprawl.  I doubt it can even be considered “off topic” any more.

 

I suspect there is no such thing as a “dense and walkable city” in the USA. Even New York City has Staten Island and Queens.  What there are are “dense and walkable” neighborhoods. 

 

It seems to me that successful ones grow more than they nucleate.  A few blocks start to click and work, and people who want that kind of lifestyle migrate there.  If there is demand, the neighborhood grows, block by block.  When planners decide “this right here is going to be a dense and walkable neighborhood” from scratch…. that seems to fail way more than it works. 

 

If this is true, then the whole topic is irrelevant to the OC.  This area does not directly adjoin any such neighborhoods.  While one such could nucleate there, that’s not something that can be planned or predicted.

^I could care less where the money goes if we don't build this road, be it Columbus ... or Timbuktu, if we're building roads just to spend govt. money allotted to Cleveland, regardless if it's as bad and dumb a project as the OC, then we're truly screwed up in our mindset, and we need to shut up the double-talk about the dense and walkable city we allegedly desire.

So if that money goes to a new interchange west of Avon, where they will build new housing development, new Sprawl-Marts and Targets, and more industrial parks, taking more people and jobs from Cleveland, you will call that a win for the city?