^ East Shoreway to MLK. Maybe the nicest drive in the city.

 

If you live that far north.  MLK's in dire need of repairs as well.

They just repaved MLK, right?

 

During the last year?  About time. 

 

As I said, it's not a good route if you're coming from south of the Circle.

Back to the OC.....

^ East Shoreway to MLK. Maybe the nicest drive in the city.

 

say what?  bumper to bumper in the morning & again in the afternoons for a solid 2 hrs, stop & go...  it's horrible

 

I did enjoy the article in the Scene but it's hardly unbiased journalism.  They came out of the gate that it's an evil project put forth by underhanded city leaders to benefit their interests.  The title of the article even tells readers to be outraged.  That may be somewhat true, but picking & choosing facts to get your point across?  I mean, did they even interview anyone from ODOT for the article?  Or just pick & choose quotes from the past that illustrate their point...

^ East Shoreway to MLK. Maybe the nicest drive in the city.

 

say what?  bumper to bumper in the morning & again in the afternoons for a solid 2 hrs, stop & go...  it's horrible

 

I did enjoy the article in the Scene but it's hardly unbiased journalism.  They came out of the gate that it's an evil project put forth by underhanded city leaders to benefit their interests.  The title of the article even tells readers to be outraged.  That may be somewhat true, but picking & choosing facts to get your point across?  I mean, did they even interview anyone from ODOT for the article?  Or just pick & choose quotes from the past that illustrate their point...

 

I wouldn't say "underhanded city leaders", but this project is solely to benefit a minority at the expense of those that don't have a voice.  I've been against this from jump, I don't believe the article was that far from the truth!

^ East Shoreway to MLK. Maybe the nicest drive in the city.

 

say what?  bumper to bumper in the morning & again in the afternoons for a solid 2 hrs, stop & go...  it's horrible

 

I did enjoy the article in the Scene but it's hardly unbiased journalism.  They came out of the gate that it's an evil project put forth by underhanded city leaders to benefit their interests.  The title of the article even tells readers to be outraged.  That may be somewhat true, but picking & choosing facts to get your point across?  I mean, did they even interview anyone from ODOT for the article?  Or just pick & choose quotes from the past that illustrate their point...

 

I wouldn't say "underhanded city leaders", but this project is solely to benefit a minority at the expense of those that don't have a voice.  I've been against this from jump, I don't believe the article was that far from the truth!

 

It's not "solely" to do anything.  It improves access to one of the region's best areas, while potentially providing an economic boost to a highly distressed area, while facilitating repairs on existing access routes.  It also provides construction jobs.  It's hard to see how more than a very few people will be any more than inconvenienced. 

I disagree.  My reasons are well documented earlier in this thread.

I've been driving down e105 a lot lately and noticed one of the buildings has "E Roc" spray painted on the side. Hmmmmmmm

I've been driving down e105 a lot lately and noticed one of the buildings has "E Roc" spray painted on the side. Hmmmmmmm

 

I've probably been using that name since before the tagger was born.  :evil:

say what?  bumper to bumper in the morning & again in the afternoons for a solid 2 hrs, stop & go...  it's horrible

 

I did enjoy the article in the Scene but it's hardly unbiased journalism.  They came out of the gate that it's an evil project put forth by underhanded city leaders to benefit their interests.  The title of the article even tells readers to be outraged.  That may be somewhat true, but picking & choosing facts to get your point across?  I mean, did they even interview anyone from ODOT for the article?  Or just pick & choose quotes from the past that illustrate their point...

 

It's funny how anyone who questions this highway has their motives or integrity impugned, even when they bring the facts.  But yet hardly anybody raised a peep when Terry Eggar's PD (you know, the conservative chair of the OC initiative) churned out one cheer-leading article after another (totaling probably over 100 over the course of years) about how great highway is for everybody, despite the limited the main beneficiaries (professional West Siders) are. 

 

The writer for scene previously wrote the most comprehensive review and history of this project -- including how it was rammed through with hardly any neutral study as well as the refusal of leaders to answer any criticism.  Even Cleveland Magazine, which probably had no dog in this fight, noted the latter point.

^ Many conservatives are rumored to value fiscal responsibility.

^ Many conservatives are rumored to value fiscal responsibility.

 

Only when cameras are rolling. 

 

 

 

It's funny how anyone who questions this highway has their motives or integrity impugned, even when they bring the facts.  But yet hardly anybody raised a peep when Terry Eggar's PD (you know, the conservative chair of the OC initiative) churned out one cheer-leading article after another (totaling probably over 100 over the course of years) about how great highway is for everybody, despite the limited the main beneficiaries (professional West Siders) are. 

South siders living west of 271 as well.  Also anyone coming to UC/CC from the airport.

Has major demolition started yet?

http://www.gcbl.org/calendar/2014/08/opportunity-corridor-update-with-marie-kittredge

 

Opportunity Corridor with Marie Kittredge

Thursday, August 28

 

Marie Kittredge, the newly appointed Director of the Cleveland Opportunity Corridor Project, will update, answer questions and address concerns about the soon-to-be-built $330 million roadway extending the 490 highway through Cleveland.

 

hursday, August 28, 2014

4:00 PM - 6:00 PM

 

OneCommunity invites you to a dialogue with Marie Kittredge, the newly appointed Director of the Cleveland Opportunity Corridor Project. Marie will share an update on the project, focusing on the potential economic and community benefits to the surrounding neighborhoods, the City of Cleveland and all of Northeast Ohio, answer your questions and address your concerns.

 

OneCommunity Headquarters

800 W. St. Clair Avenue

Cleveland, OH

More information: http://events.r20.constantcontact.com/register/event?llr=j68mspfab&oeidk=a07e9l6a2wpd54fdf68

http://info.enterprisecommunity.com/index.php/email/emailWebview?mkt_tok=3RkMMJWWfF9wsRoiuKvOZKXonjHpfsX56%2BQ7BPbv3sYw3mx7dMXLZRi83oQXEYc8ZuGVCAw5N802l14VLsS4MdITow%3D%3D

 

Slavic Village Awarded Enterprise Grant for Fleet-Hyacinth TOD Reintegration Project

 

The Slavic Village initiative intends to reconnect the long-isolated Hyacinth neighborhood with the core of Slavic Village through two anchor projects and biking infrastructure. Anchor projects include a Hyacinth TOD 40-unit development, positioning SVD and development partners to submit competitive financing applications, and Slavic Village Recovery Phase II, involving renovation and sale of 50 vacant homes to owner occupants within a quarter mile of the new Fleet Reconstruction Project. Funds will also be used to execute a rigorous design process to enhance the Hyacinth TOD by using Enterprise’s Pre-Development Design Toolkit. Lastly, this initiative will aim to connect several amenities, including those noted above, to the new Opportunity Corridor and new RTA Light Rail Station by bike trail and bike lanes.

 

 

I assume this "TOD anchor" will be at the East 55th station?

Opportunity Corridor project director says the $331 million project is in "catch-up" mode on neighborhood economic benefits

 

http://www.cleveland.com/architecture/index.ssf/2014/08/opportunity_corridors_top_loca.html

 

Kittredge, immediate past director of the Slavic Village Development Corp., said the sudden flow of cash means that Cleveland needs to accelerate the planning, zoning, land assembly and urban design needed to guide future development along the boulevard.

As I've said from day one.  This project is a joke and will hurt more than help.

Opportunity Corridor historic pact sets aside 20 percent of contract dollars for minority-owned firms http://t.co/ATumipExvU #equity #CLE

Out of multiple applications from locales throughout Ohio and of $600 million available for the entire country, this was the only TIGER grant awarded in Ohio in this year's round:

 

East 105th/East 93rd Transportation Corridor Plan $400,000

City of Cleveland

 

This TIGER grant will help complete a transportation plan for an eight mile north-south corridor along East 105th and East 93rd Streets that is connected to the planned $330 million Opportunity Corridor. The Opportunity Corridor will connect many of Cleveland’s distressed neighborhoods on the westside to employment and education centers on the east. This project holds the potential to spread some of those benefits to the northern and southern neighborhoods as well. This study will focus on improving transit, bicycle, and pedestrian facilities, while reshaping land use and development to foster economic opportunity and neighborhood revitalization along this corridor, which runs from the City’s northern boundary near I-90 and the Lake Erie shoreline to its southern boundary near I-480 and the City of Garfield Heights.

 

http://www.dot.gov/sites/dot.gov/files/docs/TIGER14_Project_FactSheets.pdf

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/09/north-south_tie-in_to_opportun.html

 

 

North-south tie-in to Opportunity Corridor gets prized TIGER grant, other projects nixed

By Allison Grant

 

 

"CLEVELAND, Ohio -- A transit/bike/pedestrian project envisioned as spreading some of Opportunity Corridor's benefits to low-income neighborhoods landed a $400,000 federal grant Friday.

 

The TIGER grant will pay for planning work on an eight-mile, north-south axis along East 105th and East 93rd streets, which intersect the 3.2-mile Opportunity Corridor being built, starting this fall, to connect Interstate 490 to University Circle.

 

A description of the East 105th/East 93rd plan said it will "focus on largely African-American neighborhoods characterized by low incomes, high poverty rates, poor building conditions and health issues."

So the U.S. Public Interest Research Group isn't loving #CLE's Opportunity Corridor project. @alisonkgrant reports: http://t.co/lpVbxBORgo

As a supporter of the project, I welcome the criticism.  It will keep the stakeholders feet to the fire to come through on the promises made for this project

ODOT spokesman Steve Faulkner said "It's hard to take seriously the opinions of a group that supported a 'high-speed' 35-mph train in Ohio and continues to advocate for a true boondoggle: the California rail project, which started off as an $8 billion federal set-aside and now is projected to cost taxpayers more than $68 billion."

 

NOTE: I'm sure KJP loved this quote ... just as much as I did!... The far right-wing stripes of ODOT obviously are not hard to find.  Is it any wonder why Ohio is the highway pork-barrel/transit-starved mess that it is?  And with John Kasich expected to breeze to 4-more years come November, it's only going to get worse.  :x

It did not take long for the Powers That Be behind this project to have their project director/community puppet get in touch with Ms. Grant at the PD for a rebuttal.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/09/opportunity_corridor_project_d.html

 

Opportunity Corridor project director says report critical of boulevard is 'misinformed'

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Opportunity Corridor project director Marie Kittredge said a critique of the 3.2-mile boulevard that said it was among highway "boondoggles" nationwide is "misinformed" in its conclusions.

 

The U.S. Public Interest Research Group said in a 55-page report Thursday that Opportunity Cooridor and 10 other highway projects nationwide should be canceled or updated to be more in tune with driving trends and community demands.

Not surprised... This Faulkner jerk should be fired immediately.  His type of partisan, right-wing rhetoric should not be tolerated in a state-wide service agency like ODOT, which SHOULD be nonpartisan.  While many of us believe ODOT people think this way, for Faulkner to publicly spew this kind of idiocy confirming it, is inexcusable.  I’m not one for lauding anything from cleve.com posters, but one guy was right on target noting: Faulkner of course distorts the facts in slamming the 3-C Amtrak plan Kasich deep-6’ed which covered 300 miles and would have served the bulk of Ohio's population stimulating Smart Growth while, instead, touting this $321, 3-mile roadway boondoggle that Faulkner/Kasich is 4-square behind (while shoving it down Cleveland's throat); a road that looks a lot like an urban highway…

 

I just wish these PIRG people had spoken up a lot sooner.  I also wish some other thoughtful local voice -- who had to know better -- had similarly screamed the Emperor has No Clothes beforehand as well.  Unfortunately it appeared that the entire Cleveland power-structure was in lockstep behind this horrible/crazy project… until now.  Unfortunately, the contracts are signed and the bulldozers are ready to roll now… Too Late!

 

Just bend over, because nearly 4 years after Kasich’s disastrous cancellation of Federal “gift” money to build the highly worthwhile Amtrak/3-C rail project, Faulkner’s empty-headed verbal diarrhea proves that downstate Right Wing elements have done it to us once again.

This "road" is a load of crap!

It did not take long for the Powers That Be behind this project to have their project director/community puppet get in touch with Ms. Grant at the PD for a rebuttal.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/09/opportunity_corridor_project_d.html

 

Opportunity Corridor project director says report critical of boulevard is 'misinformed'

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Opportunity Corridor project director Marie Kittredge said a critique of the 3.2-mile boulevard that said it was among highway "boondoggles" nationwide is "misinformed" in its conclusions.

 

The U.S. Public Interest Research Group said in a 55-page report Thursday that Opportunity Cooridor and 10 other highway projects nationwide should be canceled or updated to be more in tune with driving trends and community demands.

 

PIRG is a mouthpiece for Ralph Nader, notorious for funding itself through mandatory surcharges on university student fees.  Their opinion is as predictable as it is irrelevant.

All Aboard Ohio ‏@AllAboardOhio  1m

WANTED: an @ODOT_Statewide more supportive of 1M car-free Ohioans than using falsehoods to ridicule their advocates.  http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/09/opportunity_corridor_a_boondog.html#incart_river

 

PIRG is a mouthpiece for Ralph Nader, notorious for funding itself through mandatory surcharges on university student fees.  Their opinion is as predictable as it is irrelevant.[/color]

 

Care to document that claim?

It did not take long for the Powers That Be behind this project to have their project director/community puppet get in touch with Ms. Grant at the PD for a rebuttal.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/09/opportunity_corridor_project_d.html

 

Opportunity Corridor project director says report critical of boulevard is 'misinformed'

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Opportunity Corridor project director Marie Kittredge said a critique of the 3.2-mile boulevard that said it was among highway "boondoggles" nationwide is "misinformed" in its conclusions.

 

The U.S. Public Interest Research Group said in a 55-page report Thursday that Opportunity Cooridor and 10 other highway projects nationwide should be canceled or updated to be more in tune with driving trends and community demands.

 

PIRG is a mouthpiece for Ralph Nader, notorious for funding itself through mandatory surcharges on university student fees.  Their opinion is as predictable as it is irrelevant.

 

The 55 page report is commentary on overall driving miles declining.  It focuses on 10 different projects.  The actual analysis and criticism of the Opportunity Corridor boils down to 1 fact:  Vehicle miles traveled in Cleveland area are stagnant.  What that doesn't focus on is the boom of employment in the University Circle area. 

The 55 page report is commentary on overall driving miles declining.  It focuses on 10 different projects.  The actual analysis and criticism of the Opportunity Corridor boils down to 1 fact:  Vehicle miles traveled in Cleveland area are stagnant.  What that doesn't focus on is the boom of employment in the University Circle area. 

 

There are a million ways to skin that cat. Accommodating more single-occupant vehicles upon more pavement is only the laziest, least creative "solution".

I just can't get wrapped up in the politics of this thing like everyone seems to do. I could care less. This road isn't a new idea, It's been proposed in some form or the other for the last twenty years. Making it's way through many administrations. Like I have always maintained I just cannot turn down the opportunity to bring 200+ acres back from the dead. To reject 400m dollars into the local economy. 4-5 years of steady employment for the construction trade, many from those neighborhoods. There is no time for another plan, another concept. That would take twenty more years. I am comfortable in what this road once was to what it has evolved into. Just watch in the coming years how  those parcels around it will be snapped up by developers, it's going to happen.

Care less? That does seem to be the prevailing approach to urban planning and transportation planning.

It did not take long for the Powers That Be behind this project to have their project director/community puppet get in touch with Ms. Grant at the PD for a rebuttal.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/09/opportunity_corridor_project_d.html

 

Opportunity Corridor project director says report critical of boulevard is 'misinformed'

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Opportunity Corridor project director Marie Kittredge said a critique of the 3.2-mile boulevard that said it was among highway "boondoggles" nationwide is "misinformed" in its conclusions.

 

The U.S. Public Interest Research Group said in a 55-page report Thursday that Opportunity Cooridor and 10 other highway projects nationwide should be canceled or updated to be more in tune with driving trends and community demands.

 

PIRG is a mouthpiece for Ralph Nader, notorious for funding itself through mandatory surcharges on university student fees.  Their opinion is as predictable as it is irrelevant.

 

The 55 page report is commentary on overall driving miles declining.  It focuses on 10 different projects.  The actual analysis and criticism of the Opportunity Corridor boils down to 1 fact:  Vehicle miles traveled in Cleveland area are stagnant.  What that doesn't focus on is the boom of employment in the University Circle area. 

 

Ah, no... The PIRG report says considerably more than that, including:

 

The report says that although the roadway through poor sections of Cleveland' is promoted as an "opportunity corridor" that would help the disadvantaged neighborhoods, "the communities that would supposedly benefit have other priorities," including increased public transit. ... A highway construction project makes little sense as an economic development tool for neighborhoods where as many as 40 percent of residents do not drive, the report says. ...

 

This is what some of us have been saying all along.... And then PIRG adds this:

 

The money being spent on Opportunity Corridor is larger than the annual budget of the Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority, it says.

I just can't get wrapped up in the politics of this thing like everyone seems to do. I could care less. This road isn't a new idea, It's been proposed in some form or the other for the last twenty years. Making it's way through many administrations. Like I have always maintained I just cannot turn down the opportunity to bring 200+ acres back from the dead. To reject 400m dollars into the local economy. 4-5 years of steady employment for the construction trade, many from those neighborhoods. There is no time for another plan, another concept. That would take twenty more years. I am comfortable in what this road once was to what it has evolved into. Just watch in the coming years how  those parcels around it will be snapped up by developers, it's going to happen.

 

First, it sure wasn't hard for Kasich - along with like-minded folks around here -- to reject similar money to build the start-up phase for the 3-C Amtrak project and send that Federal (gift) money out to California to help them build their high-speed rail project, which is currently under development (and btw trains would NOT have only traveled 35 mph from point-to-point).

 

Secondly, I'm not sure what $400M you're talking about.  If you're talking about money to build the road, itself, and the jobs involved, that's one thing.  But to quote the "so-called" economic "boost" this road will supposedly reap, it is purely speculative (and questionable at best), so please don't throw such figures about as if they were established fact.

 

-- of course conservatives tend to make up their own facts to suit their arguments.

I just can't get wrapped up in the politics of this thing like everyone seems to do. I could care less. This road isn't a new idea, It's been proposed in some form or the other for the last twenty years. Making it's way through many administrations. Like I have always maintained I just cannot turn down the opportunity to bring 200+ acres back from the dead. To reject 400m dollars into the local economy. 4-5 years of steady employment for the construction trade, many from those neighborhoods. There is no time for another plan, another concept. That would take twenty more years. I am comfortable in what this road once was to what it has evolved into. Just watch in the coming years how  those parcels around it will be snapped up by developers, it's going to happen.

 

 

 

 

First, it sure wasn't hard for Kasich - along with like-minded folks around here -- to reject similar money to build the start-up phase for the 3-C Amtrak project and send that Federal (gift) money out to California to help them build their high-speed rail project, which is currently under development (and btw trains would NOT have only traveled 35 mph from point-to-point).

 

Secondly, I'm not sure what $400M you're talking about.  If you're talking about money to build the road, itself, and the jobs involved, that's one thing.  But to quote the "so-called" economic "boost" this road will supposedly reap, it is purely speculative (and questionable at best), so please don't throw such figures about as if they were established fact.

 

-- of course conservatives tend to make up their own facts to suit their arguments.

 

 

So sorry to dissapoint you there grumpy. But when it comes to politics I am just to the left of Dennis Kucinich. As far as the 3-C project I was firmly against losing that money. Although I doubt the current governor would have had the foresight to follow thru on the project. As far as speculating on what development might happen. Uhm that's kind of what we do here everyday, yourself included. This project apparently is one of those 'love it or hate it' type things that I am staying out of. It's time for reason, this things moving fwd. Like it or not.

^OK fair enough ("Grumpy" is another UO poster, btw, for whom I'm not to be confused)... I wasn't necessarily pointing the finger at you -- after all, staunch Democrats Frank Jackson and Chris Ronayne are also 4-square behind the OC, as well; and hell, Obama himself (well his FTA) is backing this project with a TIGER grant to the exclusion of other more worthwhile Cleveland transportation/transit projects, like the North Coast Transportation Center which was rejected last year or so, IIRC ... My point is, while people like ODOT's Faulkner,  who is obviously a right-wing hack, pushed this project, people on the left -- you included, apparently -- have been duped to support this road with, as Geo. W. Bush once noted, "funny numbers."

 

Note too, as one of the local critics noted, the origin of the OC isn't just a couple decades old, it actually dates back more like 50+ years and is a modification of a spoke in the grand freeway empire of the infamous Cuyahoga County Engineer Albert S. Porter; the subway & downtown killer; the sprawl lover/inducer, the (attempted Shaker) lake drainer/paver-over; the child hater and, eventually, the crook. ... btw similar to a RINO of today, Porter was a Democrat in name only.  His origin was from Virginia and his politics were shaped when Dems of that area and that region were segregationists...

 

... but back to the OC --- PIRG also noted, as was noted up-thread (and by an old timer in yesterday's cleve.com), the same "growth" potential talk of OC backers was heard from backers of the Chester Ave. extension from E. 55 to E. 107.... As you'll note, even to this day, there's almost no economic or residential growth along Chester.  The road has been, just as the OC will be, merely a shortcut bypass for benefiting anybody but the people who live near the actual road itself.

Not surprised... This Faulkner jerk should be fired immediately.  His type of partisan, right-wing rhetoric should not be tolerated in a state-wide service agency like ODOT, which SHOULD be nonpartisan.  While many of us believe ODOT people think this way, for Faulkner to publicly spew this kind of idiocy confirming it, is inexcusable.  I’m not one for lauding anything from cleve.com posters, but one guy was right on target noting: Faulkner of course distorts the facts in slamming the 3-C Amtrak plan Kasich deep-6’ed which covered 300 miles and would have served the bulk of Ohio's population stimulating Smart Growth while, instead, touting this $321, 3-mile roadway boondoggle that Faulkner/Kasich is 4-square behind (while shoving it down Cleveland's throat); a road that looks a lot like an urban highway…

 

I just wish these PIRG people had spoken up a lot sooner.  I also wish some other thoughtful local voice -- who had to know better -- had similarly screamed the Emperor has No Clothes beforehand as well.  Unfortunately it appeared that the entire Cleveland power-structure was in lockstep behind this horrible/crazy project… until now.  Unfortunately, the contracts are signed and the bulldozers are ready to roll now… Too Late!

 

Just bend over, because nearly 4 years after Kasich’s disastrous cancellation of Federal “gift” money to build the highly worthwhile Amtrak/3-C rail project, Faulkner’s empty-headed verbal diarrhea proves that downstate Right Wing elements have done it to us once again.

 

Do what I did.  E-mail ODOT Director Jerry Wray and copy the PD reporter who wrote this article, Alison Grant:

 

Wray can be reached through his assistant here:  [email protected] .  Alison Grant:  [email protected] 

 

 

All Aboard Ohio ‏@AllAboardOhio  1m

WANTED: an @ODOT_Statewide more supportive of 1M car-free Ohioans than using falsehoods to ridicule their advocates.  http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/09/opportunity_corridor_a_boondog.html#incart_river

 

PIRG is a mouthpiece for Ralph Nader, notorious for funding itself through mandatory surcharges on university student fees.  Their opinion is as predictable as it is irrelevant.[/color]

 

Care to document that claim?

 

You won't like the source, but it was common knowledge in conservative circles as far back as the 70s.

 

http://capitalismmagazine.com/2003/04/ralph-nader-public-shakedown-artist/

 

You won't like the source, but it was common knowledge in conservative circles as far back as the 70s.

 

http://capitalismmagazine.com/2003/04/ralph-nader-public-shakedown-artist/

 

Classic.  Get the dumb college kids to pay for it...

You won't like the source, but it was common knowledge in conservative circles as far back as the 70s.

 

http://capitalismmagazine.com/2003/04/ralph-nader-public-shakedown-artist/

 

OK, so nothing recent or mainstream. Got it.

 

EDIT: Even if it is still tied to Nader, I don't have a problem with it. I think this country would be a better place and actually have a government for & by the people had Nader had won the presidency a few years back, but now I'm steering this chat too far off the berm of the Opportunity Corridor. So feel free to respond to this statement in one of the political threads where I rarely venture.....

You won't like the source, but it was common knowledge in conservative circles as far back as the 70s.

 

http://capitalismmagazine.com/2003/04/ralph-nader-public-shakedown-artist/

 

OK, so nothing recent or mainstream. Got it.

 

EDIT: Even if it is still tied to Nader, I don't have a problem with it. I think this country would be a better place and actually have a government for & by the people had Nader had won the presidency a few years back, but now I'm steering this chat too far off the berm of the Opportunity Corridor. So feel free to respond to this statement in one of the political threads where I rarely venture.....

 

We may not all be libertarians soon, or ever, but in the not too distant future, we will all have to adjust to a world in which it is no longer possible for a central government to tax, borrow, and spend as it does today, on the pet projects of left *or* right.  And in that day, perhaps some of y'all will be more open to the ideas that libertarians such as myself have had for decades now on how we can fix the damage that this partisan spending - on both sides - has caused.  Some of it will fix itself, but not all, and not necessarily as quickly as would be optimal.  My suggestion is that we face this and begin now to plan for it.  Without federal funding it would obviously not be cost-effective to build the OC.  (To maintain it?  Maybe.  Hard to say for sure.)  We will get to do so only because we can force people in other parts of the country, and people not yet born, to pay.  We could do the a glorified #6 bus that's 5 minutes faster than the old one for the exact same reason.  When that is no longer the case?  Then it becomes necessary for someone - probably either a municipality, or a private investor - to be fully convinced that there will be a return on their investment, before any more new infrastructure like this gets built.  Again, plan for this, or be left unprepared when it happens.

The bulk of the funding for this road is from turnpike revenues, not from federal dollars

 

 

The bulk of the funding for this road is from turnpike revenues, not from federal dollars

 

Understood.  I'm speaking in very general terms about this whole alleged right-wing/left-wing dichotomy that is supposed to encompass the great issues of our time.  Both miss the point.  It should not be about how to spend other people's money, but rather how to make worthy and needed projects pay for themselves, insofar as possible.  We need to think bigger.  Funds from tolls are a great way to pay for the building and maintenance of roads, but, preferably, related ones.  I don't see much connection between the Turnpike and the OC.  But what if there were a toll booth at the south/west entrance of the OC Boulevard?  I'd gladly pay two or three bucks for the convenience of not having to go through the congested and sometimes dangerous interections of 490/E.55 and E.55/Woodland/Kinsman, especially if there were EZPass lanes which didn't require long waits at the toll booths.  I would like to see some of the funds benefit the neighborhood, more so than freeways usually do, but I'll admit to being at something of a loss as to how to do that.  It is not an area you can just dump money into and make it all better.  People there need access to education, jobs, and most importantly, some degree of law and order, which is sorely lacking there and in many other inner-city neighborhoods.

Jtadams, my response to your vision of a New Federalist Utopia:

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,18785.msg726884.html#msg726884

 

And you may favor toll roads for a different reason than I do. I favor toll roads because I want to see fewer roads. You may be willing to use them but many motorists don't, especially at the prices needed to justify private sector involvement. The proof is in the pudding:

http://online.wsj.com/articles/indiana-toll-road-operator-files-for-bankruptcy-1411395866

http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_25914073/northwest-parkway-owners-looking-rework-450m-debt

http://tollroadsnews.com/news/south-bay-expressway-company-files-for-bankruptcy-in-san-diego

http://tollroadsnews.com/news/bankruptcy-reorganization-for-american-roads-not-as-harmonious-as-seems

This road is a joke.

 

I bet if this was going to be built as a toll road, none of the people saying what a benefit it is would want it or use it.

 

So too all those who are in favor, if this was a toll road, each direction, would you a) be for it?  b) use it daily?

you're right.  the road project should be abandoned.  and the land of the forgotten triangle will stay abandoned. 

you're right.  the road project should be abandoned.  and the land of the forgotten triangle will stay abandoned. 

And when built, the area will continue to be forgotten and abandoned.  It will be a road for people to bypass the area, nothing more.

 

This "project" is unneeded and unnecessary.

The bulk of the funding for this road is from turnpike revenues, not from federal dollars

 

Will the construction of this road create the jobs and resulting tax receipt increases to fund its maintenance?  If this road is not going to lead to increased investment along the corridor, and just make it easier for current workers to get to university circle and the Clinic, then we're just going to be shifting maintenance funds from another road, say Carnegie, to the OC. 

 

While I am happy to see some brownfield cleanup in connection with this project, and like others may personally benefit from more direct highway access, I don't think we have really thought out what the returns on our investment are going to be.  That case needs to be made.

While I am happy to see some brownfield cleanup in connection with this project, and like others may personally benefit from more direct highway access, I don't think we have really thought out what the returns on our investment are going to be.  That case needs to be made.

 

It never is for a road project because there is no such federal requirement placed on a road project. In fact the Inner Belt project in 2007 was the first time ODOT ever did an economic impact study prior to building a road. It did so only because the city of Cleveland demanded it.

 

I think the brownfield remediation aspects of this road project are its biggest benefits. But if we had as much taxpayer funding for brownfield remediations as we did for road construction, we wouldn't need a road to revitalize the Forgotten Triangle.