Not sure exactly what they plan to do with the results of this email questionairre, but figured some may want to offer a response.

 

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/AB/20061210/BIZ01/312100004/

yea i dont know the point of this but i certainly repiled, with all positive cincy reviews of course. 

Best? Business Cincinnati Entertainment Indy.

Cincy! Because anything outside of Ohio sucks, imho.

You have been reading too many ColdayMan posts.

Downtown Indy has some pluses over Cincinnati but I would take Cincinnati over Indy any day of the week.  Indy's downtown is the size of Dayton with a decent core.  Overall it just bores me.

I guess it shouldn't shock me that this question is even being posed, but it does. When you ask it that way it generally turns into opinion and is not constructive.

 

Maybe if they asked "What can we learn from Indy?" or "What unique assets does Cincy have to build on?", but this is just pointless.

Here is what I sent to the Enquirer:

 

I think that Cincinnati’s downtown is MUCH better.  Cincinnati actually has a ‘real’ downtown; it feels much like an east coast city, and we usually look at cities like NYC, Boston, DC, and Philly as the best downtowns in America.  The streets in Indy are incredibly wide and make it more difficult to walk around; whereas the narrow streets in downtown Cincinnati allow for the pedestrian to meander more easily.

 

Looking at the two public squares Fountain Square is considered to be one of the better public squares in America and is even better with the recent renovations.  Everything in Cincinnati is focused around Fountain Square and you feel very connected as a result.  In Indy the mall is a few blocks away from the public square and aside from a couple of restaurants there is no reason to walk to the public space.  You are almost encouraged to stay within the mall as you would in a suburban setting.

 

Indianapolis also lacks a decent amount of pre-WW II buildings.  The city feels too clean, and too new.  When one thinks of a downtown they typically think of large buildings, and buildings with architectural character and charm…downtown Indy lacks both buildings with charm and character.  Cincinnati on the other hand has gorgeous architecture downtown and wonderful historic structures like Carew Tower, all of 4th St., Cincinnatian Hotel, etc.

You have been reading too many ColdayMan posts.

 

Not enough, you mean.

Indy has us beat in downtown retail and they do an incredible job making it pedestrian friendly even with wide streets.  They have newer/better pedestrian walk signs with a countdown.  I give Indy props for some things but overall it is not my thing.

 

Here are some rants by Indianapolis residents on another forum.

 

http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=415660

I obviously like dt Cincy better, but here is what is going to happen (in true Enquirer fashion).  The poll will be besieged with uninformed, bitter suburbanites who get all their downtown info from the Enquirer, and per their slanted tilt, believe downtown is a crime ridden wasteland.  They will say Indy is better, and I bet 99% of them haven't even been to downtown Indy in the last 10 years.  And if they have, anything new and different always seems to have a little more gleen to it than your hometown and this will lead to a report saying some BS like "80% of readers think Indy is better than Cincy".  Watch.

This article came at a convenient time for me because I was just in Indianapolis on Sunday for a meeting at Butler University. I can honestly say that, for my second visit, I was not at all impressed with Indianapolis' downtown. They have horrible mass transit and their highway system around the city is a mess and confusing. The first ring suburbs reminded me of Cincy a bit, but it had much more grit than Cincy. Abandoned buildings, burnt buildings/homes. I was not impressed.

^ I didn't think the inner suburbs reminded me of Cincy at all.  They have more low quality vinyl/aluminum siding homes and less brick.  Now I know the Meridian area north of downtown Indy has a Hyde Park feel but most of the housing stock I have seen consists of siding.

^ I didn't think the inner suburbs reminded me of Cincy at all.  They have more low quality vinyl/aluminum siding homes and less brick.  Now I know the Meridian area north of downtown Indy has a Hyde Park feel but most of the housing stock I have seen consists of siding.

 

The Meridian area is the area I'm most familiar with. I agree with you that there isn't as much brick as there is siding...but I was driving through the "Historic District," I was reminded of some areas on the east side.

I obviously like dt Cincy better, but here is what is going to happen (in true Enquirer fashion).  The poll will be besieged with uninformed, bitter suburbanites who get all their downtown info from the Enquirer, and per their slanted tilt, believe downtown is a crime ridden wasteland.  They will say Indy is better, and I bet 99% of them haven't even been to downtown Indy in the last 10 years.  And if they have, anything new and different always seems to have a little more gleen to it than your hometown and this will lead to a report saying some BS like "80% of readers think Indy is better than Cincy".  Watch.

 

Damn...I wish I didn't agree with you  :|  But I read the Enquirer as much as anyone (unfortunately) and I dreadfully expect the same... :x

While I think both downtown have there pros and cons I really believe it comes down to, is the downtown alive after 5 o'clock and how many residents live in the downtown. If you go to downtown Indy on a normal evening (no major NCAA, NFL or event action in town) and then go to downtown Cincy on a normal evening (no major NFL, MLB, or event action in town) downtown Indy is still alive with people and downtown Cincy is almost vacant. I am a firm believer that this determines weather or not your downtown (or any project) has been successful. With that said, I am also a firm believer that Banks (done right) with the fountain square renovations can go a long way in create that after 5 crowd in Cincy. They have got to get the Banks built or downtown Cincy will continue to struggle.

It also doesn't help when you have a daily paper that strives to instill fear in the citizens of the region.  I have never encountered such a terrible daily newspaper in all the places I have lived.  The spin they put on stories is worthy of the name "Inquirer"

There are pluses and minuses to both Cincy and Indy - but I think dt Cincy is at a slight disadvantage because the south bank of the Ohio is another state.  Some of the stuff that has gone to that area could have easily been accomodated in Cincy - (of course some of it they can have)  I think the Banks project and more developments like the proposed project at the cincy foot of the purple people bridge will make these downtown(s) more accessible - for better or worse.

Why do people always have to disassociate the "South Bank" with the rest of Downtown Cincinnati? My feeling is that most of the urban core "is" Downtown Cincy.  Have you ever been to London UK? The actual "city" of London is nothing but boring office towers and subway stations. The rest of the city that we would associate with London, where most of the attractions are located, is in a town called Westminster. So I guess some people might suggest that London is a terrible boring city with nothing to do there.

^ I agree. I really don't understand the disconnect there.In our early history it was very common to think of the urbanized areas as one, in theory if not in name.  Visitors to the area have regarded the region as being Cincinnati,generally w/o making distinction. That is changing however, and I think it has to do with the fact that the locals are making such a big deal out of  us versus them, i.e. cincy vs. nky. Cincinnatians (urbanites in particular) look down their noses at ky. Ky in turn sneers at Cincinnati and utters a collective yawn. Perhaps we can stop all the bickering and the in-fighting and just wow the socks off of any visitors we have the fortune of welcoming to our little corner of the world. Collectively, as a region, we have an astounding array of attractions and points of interest to satisfy most anyone. Makes sense to me to present a united front and not draw them into our assinine squabbling. It just doesn't make sense to build up ky by tearing down cincy and vice versa. Sorry about the rant, probably we can look forward to the Enquirer asking, in the not to distant future, "who has the best downtown, Cincy or NKY?" SENSELESS CANNIBALISM.

It was all started in the 90's by developers in Northern Kentucky, if you remember back to the riverboat restaurant era and Covington Landing, that was not viewed as competition.  Covington Landing opened around 1988 and of course sold off one of its barges pretty early on and limped for the rest of the 90's before being sold down the river (although I think that's where one of my uncles met his wife if I've got he story right, so hey).  What actually started the current era were the River Center towers, which it's difficult to convince people are much shorter and smaller than anything prominent in the downtown Cincinnati skyline because people's powers of perception are weak.  How high in feet is this or that building?  How wide is the river and which direction is it flowing?  How many US soldiers died in WWII?  So many people have no clue and can't even give a ballpark figure. 

 

The construction of Rivercenter I, a 15 floor building, coincided with the cancellation of the Fountain Square West tower, which would have been around 55 floors.  I think this was the exact moment when the local media turned against Cincinnati, especially since Pogue's Department store was torn down to clear the site for the tower, and many area women held that store near and dear to their heart, even though it was a dump from what I remember (My dad actually bought used carpet from the floor of that store to use in our basement [25 cents per 2X2 foot square] and we still have a white formica display shelf we bought for $5.). 

 

Also, people percieve that half of the metro population lives on the Kentucky side, which isn't even close to being true.  And having another state directly across from a city's downtown is not all that rare -- Kansas City, Philadelphia, St. Louis, Memphis, Louisville, and Detroit and Buffalo have Canada more or less directly across.   

 

The construction of Rivercenter I, a 15 floor building, coincided with the cancellation of the Fountain Square West tower, which would have been around 55 floors.  I think this was the exact moment when the local media turned against Cincinnati, especially since Pogue's Department store was torn down to clear the site for the tower, and many area women held that store near and dear to their heart, even though it was a dump from what I remember (My dad actually bought used carpet from the floor of that store to use in our basement [25 cents per 2X2 foot square] and we still have a white formica display shelf we bought for $5.). 

 

Just a point of order, but wasn't Tower Place located at the old Pogue's site?  Elder-Beerman was on the FSW site.

After reading the discussions here and in Indianapolis about this topic...I have to say, both sides are completely blind to what the other has to offer.

 

The question itself is loaded... :shoot:...but I would have thought that perhaps some good camparisons could have been made. However, the hometown boosterism in most people goes on autopilot in these cases.

 

BTW, downtown Indianapolis is light years ahead of Cincinnati in terms of vitality, cleanliness, and ease of use.

 

HOWEVER, Cincinnati has much much MUCH superior architecture and just "looks" more like a downtown. Cincinnati has the potential to get the vitality of Indianapolis someday, but Indianapolis will never be able to get the architecture of Cincinnati.

 

So, in it's current form, if I had to show out-of-towners one or the other, I would want to show them downtown Indianapolis. However, if downtown Cincinnati is someday able to get it's act together, then Cincinnati will win.

I am really curious.  What is so exciting in downtown Indy that people are always down there and why can't that be replicated in Cincy?  Is it just a superior mass transit that attracts people/shops?

I don't think it has anything to do with mass transit...  it has partly to do with perceptions of the respective downtowns by locals, and partly to do with tangible differences between the two in terms of safety/visual appeal/and number of bars & restaurants.

 

I don't think it is fair to say Cincy can't replicate Indianapolis' DT success, I'm sure they can.  I think the reason it is taking a lot of time is due to political infighting between the city/county, and people's perception of DT, which is hard to change.

 

In Cincinnati's favor I feel they have superior architecture, geography, and building density.  If these can be leveraged I don't see why Cincinnati couldn't match, if not surpass Indy.

DT Indianapolis has a large affluent population.

 

It has a mall that rivals the suburban malls and people shops at it...it actually has unique stores to the metro and easy, cheap underground parking.

 

The city has a convention trade that puts it in the second tier of conventions cities, only beaten by cities like New York, Chicago, Las Vagas, et cetera.

 

The downtown is clean, and has a perception of being very safe by suburbanites.

 

Did I mention a large population in downtown and immediately around it?

I would say more than anything else is that the streets have people on them after 5 o'clock. One of things that make people want to go to a place is because there are other people there. It creates a since of excitement, and safety. What gets people to live or play in downtown Indy is a very long list of theatres, shopping, dining, sidewalk cafes, 20,000 residents, museums, parks, sports facilities, etc... all within walking distance of each other and its very pedestrian oriented. This whole concept is going to get even better as they build their new cultural bike/pedestrian trail throughout downtown in the next few years. Indy's greatest challenge now is weather or not it can truly create a functioning mass transit system. (light rail, monorail, bus) This is a issue that most midwest and American cities are facing, and the ones that successfully achieve a good mass transit system will probably have a great economic future ahead of them, the ones that don't will continue to fall farther behind.

I don't think it has anything to do with mass transit...  it has partly to do with perceptions of the respective downtowns by locals, and partly to do with tangible differences between the two in terms of safety/visual appeal/and number of bars & restaurants.

 

I don't think it is fair to say Cincy can't replicate Indianapolis' DT success, I'm sure they can.  I think the reason it is taking a lot of time is due to political infighting between the city/county, and people's perception of DT, which is hard to change.

 

In Cincinnati's favor I feel they have superior architecture, geography, and building density.  If these can be leveraged I don't see why Cincinnati couldn't match, if not surpass Indy.

 

The reason I ask LSAM is that I feel Cincy, aside from the very charmiong archetecture and overall feel, as very good restaurants.  I tought the shopping lacked b/c people didn't want to park downtown whereas Indy has great downtown shopping and supposedly good mass transit.  I made the connection in that way but it may be simplistic.

 

I have said this multiple times.  the ultimate key to a vibrant downtown is getting people to live there.  Cincy seems to be addressing this issue and I think you will see more vibrancy as more living units are built. 

 

 

I don't think it has anything to do with mass transit...  it has partly to do with perceptions of the respective downtowns by locals, and partly to do with tangible differences between the two in terms of safety/visual appeal/and number of bars & restaurants.

 

I don't think it is fair to say Cincy can't replicate Indianapolis' DT success, I'm sure they can.  I think the reason it is taking a lot of time is due to political infighting between the city/county, and people's perception of DT, which is hard to change.

 

In Cincinnati's favor I feel they have superior architecture, geography, and building density.  If these can be leveraged I don't see why Cincinnati couldn't match, if not surpass Indy.

 

The reason I ask LSAM is that I feel Cincy, aside from the very charmiong archetecture and overall feel, as very good restaurants.  I tought the shopping lacked b/c people didn't want to park downtown whereas Indy has great downtown shopping and supposedly good mass transit.  I made the connection in that way but it may be simplistic.

 

I have said this multiple times.  the ultimate key to a vibrant downtown is getting people to live there.  Cincy seems to be addressing this issue and I think you will see more vibrancy as more living units are built. 

 

 

 

I think you answer your own question. Downtown Indy has 20,000 + living in its downtown. Cincy, depending on what stats you look at, have between 3,000 to 5,000 living in its downtown. If downtown Indy stopped adding residents and just stayed at that number it would probably take 10 to 15 years for Cincy to reach 20,000 residents at it current consumption rate. So, if that is the criteria you are looking at for a vibrant downtown, and I would agree that is one of the major things, Cincy has a long ways to go.

Hm...I'm interested in what all is considered "downtown" for Indy because if you add in OTR, the West End, East End, and parts of Covington and Newport, I am sure there are more people in more or less the "downtown" region of Cincinnati.  Because Cincinnati is so neighborhood driven OTR and the West End don't get counted in the downtown population. As for Covington and Newport I'd say it's pretty easy to see why they aren't counted in the pop...

 

On another note...there is one glaring thing I dont like about downtown Indy.  There are very few unique restaurants and shops there. Everything seems like its a chain in Indy which, I think, makes it kind of generic and boring.

 

That said, I still think Indy has a wonderful downtown.

What I really feel is at the root of the success of downtown Indianapolis is their Unigov.  They don't have to worry about bickering between city and county officials, they have greater control of what gets built where (less competing with suburban cities), and also I would assume they have a greater amount of tax dollars they can funnel into downtown projects.  Now exburbs such as Carmel, Fishers, Noblesville, and Zionsville are in other counties and really seam to be growing like crazy, so it will be interesting to see the effect on Indy and specifically downtown.  One other huge advantage Indy has is that they are the only major city in Indiana, so they have less competition getting state funding for projects.  I think both of these facts have been instrumental in Indy developing a lot of the successes that have been posted here.

Hm...I'm interested in what all is considered "downtown" for Indy because if you add in OTR, the West End, East End, and parts of Covington and Newport, I am sure there are more people in more or less the "downtown" region of Cincinnati.  Because Cincinnati is so neighborhood driven OTR and the West End don't get counted in the downtown population. As for Covington and Newport I'd say it's pretty easy to see why they aren't counted in the pop...

 

On another note...there is one glaring thing I dont like about downtown Indy.  There are very few unique restaurants and shops there. Everything seems like its a chain in Indy which, I think, makes it kind of generic and boring.

 

That said, I still think Indy has a wonderful downtown.

 

Those population figures are just for the downtown area, which is know as the inner loop. To my understanding it doesn't take in neighborhoods outside of that downtown inner loop area.

 

I agree downtown Indy has a lot of chain restuarants. But, there are a lot of local places like, Dunaways, St. Elmos, Malibu on Maryland and dozens more in the theater district know as Mass Avenue. If you have never been to the Mass Avenue area, its about 4 blocks northeast of the circle and is home to many of the theaters in town, including the Murat (Indy's version of the Arnoff Center - except it a grand old building with middle eastern architecture - I know, some people on here think Indy has no good old architecture) and 1,000s of residential units in that area and Lockerbie Square.

What I really feel is at the root of the success of downtown Indianapolis is their Unigov.  They don't have to worry about bickering between city and county officials, they have greater control of what gets built where (less competing with suburban cities), and also I would assume they have a greater amount of tax dollars they can funnel into downtown projects.  Now exburbs such as Carmel, Fishers, Noblesville, and Zionsville are in other counties and really seam to be growing like crazy, so it will be interesting to see the effect on Indy and specifically downtown.  One other huge advantage Indy has is that they are the only major city in Indiana, so they have less competition getting state funding for projects.  I think both of these facts have been instrumental in Indy developing a lot the successes that have been posted here.

 

I agree, Unigov has been a huge help to Indy. Maybe Cincy and Hamilton County should take a hint. Several other communities recently have taken this route as well, Louisville, Miami-Dade, etc... Its a shame that the politicans and residents of Hamilton County and Cincy can't put the fighting aside and work on issues that really could help the area grow - like Unigov. As far as it is the only major city in the state, I am sure this is a plus, as it has been a plus for many other one big city states (Denver, Salt Lake, Las Vegas, Portland, Minn/St. Paul, Atlanta, Seattle). But, this has not been as big of a plus as corporate caring from companies like Lilly (Lilly endowment), Simon, etc... who have invested 100 of millions of dollars into the city. This is another place were some of Cincy corporate citizens should be stepping up to really make a difference. Yes, I know their is 3CDC, but this is not even close to what the Lilly Endowment has done for the City of Indianapolis. All these things and many others have made Indy one of the fastest growing metro area in the midwest. Many of these items didn't become reality just out of luck though, they have been cultivated for decades.

Lets hope that Cincy, its metro area and corporate citizens can figure out how to create such a good environment for its citizens future.

If you go to downtown Indy on a normal evening (no major NCAA, NFL or event action in town) and then go to downtown Cincy on a normal evening (no major NFL, MLB, or event action in town) downtown Indy is still alive with people and downtown Cincy is almost vacant.

 

I wouldn't go that far.

I find it hard to believe Indianapolis has 20,000 downtown residents.  There is no way there can be that number in what would be the financial district so this boundary known as the inner loop must be very large.  What is the square mileage of this designation?  We have previously mentioned this, but Cincinnati only considers a very small area, maybe .8 square miles.  I think it about time we move to the Indianapolis and Columbus method and expand what we call downtown to 4 square miles or so - we would get a nice boost in downtown population.  These apples to oranges comparisons really skew things.

Holy shit!  I found the downtown Indianapolis site and this is what it covers:

  Downtown Indianapolis Facts

 

Size- Regional Center covers 6.5 square miles -area bounded by 16th Street to north, Interstate 65 & 70 to east, Interstate 70 to south and Belt Railroad to west

 

I dare say if you expanded what we call downtown Cincinnati to 6.5 square miles our downtown population would approach 40,000.  Probably in an area less than that, with the West End, OTR, Mt. Auburn, Clifton Heights, Mt. Adams would be about 38,000.  If you rotated the boundaries south to Covington or Newport it might be similar.  This information shows how you can play with the numbers (and seems similar, if less formal, to annexing land to gain population as a city).  I think this is a game Cincinnati needs implement.

 

^But even so that only cancels out Indianapolis being able to say they have 20,000 downtown residents. It makes one wonder that if Cincy has that much population already then why isn't it jumping like downtown Indianapolis? I guess it could be just the perception many suburban  Cincinnati people have on downtown.

Actually, saying that downtown Cincinnati shuts down at 5 p.m. is ridiculous. I'm down there every day.

I know Jmeck has said that Nashville and Charlotte have little outside of their downtowns as far as urban neighborhoods. Therefore, in those cities, all the attention, restaurants, and nightlife goes downtown.  In my trips to Indy it does seem as if the other urban neighborhoods are sort of dry.  Cincy has Clifton, Hyde Park, Mt. Adams, Northside, Mt. Lookout, etc. all complete with retail, nightlife, and restaurants, thus drawing some attention away from downtown.

However, the hometown boosterism in most people goes on autopilot in these cases.

 

Please tell me where it says we have to be objective?  Thank god we at least have hometown boosterism on Urban Ohio.  You sure won't find it from our local newspaper.  Thank god some of us have an outlet to chat with people that feel the same way about our beloved city.  Overall though, I mentioned the pluses I thought it had.  I moved to Cincinnati from St. Louis.  If I thought Indianapolis was so great I would have saved myself the extra 1.5 hours in drive time and set up family camp there.  I didn't move here because of family, friends or work.  I decided I wanted to move here and then went looking for a job.  I passed Indianapolis all those times on the way here, usually stopping for lunch/dinner depending on the time of day we were traveling through, yet not once did we even say, "Hmm, how about Indianapolis?"  Even riding Megabus through the city on the way to Chicago a couple of weeks agi reminded me just how small the city feels.  Like I said before, I find Indianapolis boring and even with the pluses in retail, I don't see Indy serving much more than a Saturday drive for me.

I know Jmeck has said that Nashville and Charlotte have little outside of their downtowns as far as urban neighborhoods. Therefore, in those cities, all the attention, restaurants, and nightlife goes downtown.  In my trips to Indy it does seem as if the other urban neighborhoods are sort of dry.  Cincy has Clifton, Hyde Park, Mt. Adams, Northside, Mt. Lookout, etc. all complete with retail, nightlife, and restaurants, thus drawing some attention away from downtown.

 

^That is an overlooked point, actually.  Cincinnati does have a neighborhood structure appealing towards certain crowds for afterhours.  Indianapolis' downtown IS the neighborhood to go to.  Broad Ripple minor but otherwise, generally nothing else.

 

So what would you prefer?  Neighborhood or Central Hub downtown?  All about preference.  I'd prefer a mixture of both, myself...

Central Hub downtown makes transit a much easier proposition, if there is only one place to go, all the routes run there.  cincy's streetcars/lightrail would almost have to have a crosstown route connecting northside, clifton, UC, obryonville, oakley/hyde park .

Those population figures are just for the downtown area, which is know as the inner loop. To my understanding it doesn't take in neighborhoods outside of that downtown inner loop area.

 

Well that is where the comparison is unfair....the inner loop of Indy is roughly 2.5 sq. miles.  While DT Cincy (Central Parkway to river, and I-75 to I-71) is only .75 sq. miles and that is rounding up!  Once again it is another apples to oranges comparison.

 

Measuring out equal areas (2.5 to 2.5 sq. miles) would give you the same in Indy (obviously), and in Cincy would give you in addition to DT Cincy:

 

West End, OTR, DT Covington, DT Newport, part of East End!  I am pretty sure that should you compare these population numbers then they would be much more equal...clearly those that live 2 miles out from the downtown core are not adding to the actual downtown liveliness.

The official UO viewpoint on Cincinnati is   "essentially, there really is no downtown Cincinnati because the city is full of small towns, each having their own flavor"      Why don't  we get rid of the term downtown altogether then.  We could reinvent ourselves,  include the West End,OTR,DT Covington,DT Newport, part of East End,as Rando suggests  and be reborn........  a new vibrant  CINTUCKNATI!!!!  no? how about  CINCINTUCKY!!!!!

We could reinvent ourselves,  include the West End,OTR,DT Covington,DT Newport, part of East End,as Rando suggests  and be reborn........  a new vibrant  CINTUCKNATI!!!!  no? how about  CINCINTUCKY!!!!!

 

I did not suggest this I just said for comparison purposes it should be done on an equal level...not this 'enquire-esque' type comparisons.

 

Rando - Not to belabor the point, but the area is even larger than 2.5 square miles.  The area is 6.5 square miles and on the site it had a population of 19,000+ for the boundaries I stated above, which is where the number is coming from.

 

I would prefer that we hyphenated all the areas - Downtown-Mt. Auburn, Downtown-OTR, Downtown-CBD, etc.  It is of course, petty and ridiculous, but it is a way to market.  This is also not to say we do not have work to do on downtown Cincy, but we at least are headed in the right direction with new condos and the FS redevelopment.

 

 

 

Those population figures are just for the downtown area, which is know as the inner loop. To my understanding it doesn't take in neighborhoods outside of that downtown inner loop area.

 

Well that is where the comparison is unfair....the inner loop of Indy is roughly 2.5 sq. miles.  While DT Cincy (Central Parkway to river, and I-75 to I-71) is only .75 sq. miles and that is rounding up!  Once again it is another apples to oranges comparison.

 

Measuring out equal areas (2.5 to 2.5 sq. miles) would give you the same in Indy (obviously), and in Cincy would give you in addition to DT Cincy:

 

West End, OTR, DT Covington, DT Newport, part of East End!  I am pretty sure that should you compare these population numbers then they would be much more equal...clearly those that live 2 miles out from the downtown core are not adding to the actual downtown liveliness.

This is why Downtown Inc. mentions population numbers for "Greater Downtown" in their reports.  I am content with the fact that downtown is only .8 sq miles because it is a real urban downtown.  I just wish the media would understand this when they do comparisons.  You have to remember you can't have it both ways, not that we are the decision makers on this matter anyway but...  If you include all those surrounding neighborhoods into what is known as "Downtown Cincinnati" or "Greater Downtown" then you have to include the crime statistics too. 

 

Downtown Cincinnati's boundaries are Central Parkway to the north, the Ohio River to the south, I-71 to the east and I-75 to the west - thats it, so it is pointless to talk about changing that.  I am glad that we were able to see through Indianapolis' skewing of data though.  I knew 20,000 people in a mile radius for downtown Indianapolis was laughable.

I think that terms like Center City (as in Philly, or 3CDC) or the Basin would be useful in describing a "greater downtown." Better at least than a series of hyphens.

 

Basin neighborhoods are relatively easy to i.d.: Downtown, OTR, West End, part of the East End (from the east edge of Ted Berry back to town, maybe), and, someday, the Banks. Now, the Basin could extend out to Queensgate and Lower Price Hill, more or less. But it's not functionally whole.

 

Adding neighborhoods like Mt Adams or Mt Auburn to the mix is tricky, since there isn't as much connection, thanks to hills and highways. Maybe with better transit providing connectivity, you could make the case, but right now they feel and behave as distinct entities. And eventually, you start overlapping the conglomerated neighborhoods of Uptown, which is also a moniker I really dislike.

 

But that said, this really is a silly dick measuring contest. No city is going to have the same X square mile downtown, so we really shouldn't concern ourselves with how many people live in some arbitrarily defined area. What matters is getting people to live in our arbitrarily defined area.

But, this has not been as big of a plus as corporate caring from companies like Lilly (Lilly endowment), Simon, etc... who have invested 100 of millions of dollars into the city. This is another place were some of Cincy corporate citizens should be stepping up to really make a difference. Yes, I know their is 3CDC, but this is not even close to what the Lilly Endowment has done for the City of Indianapolis. All these things and many others have made Indy one of the fastest growing metro area in the midwest. Many of these items didn't become reality just out of luck though, they have been cultivated for decades.

Lets hope that Cincy, its metro area and corporate citizens can figure out how to create such a good environment for its citizens future.

 

I think you may be on to something here..cincy's corp citizens need to step up to the plate and invest in the city.  Kroger got a parking garage but we still don't have a flagship urban supermarket downtown.  P&G does have their HQ downtown but they could create a private development group for specific downtown projects instead of buidling mr. clean themed carwashes in deerfield township.  The city has bent over backwards for these corps for a long time and it should really be a two-way street. 

^All I would like to see is someone...or a group of someones throw about $10 million at the Banks and get this thing up and over the hump!