May 28, 20223 yr What to think?? With the mixed success of Uptown will this be something like a fire sale enabling MRN to simply cut their losses and live to fight (invest) another day? Or will a new buyer with a national reach come in with the goal of making it even stronger with a better group of retailers? i have to admit Uptown puzzles me. The design and location seem perfect. I get that storefront retail is struggling in America today but I thought there are still places where people want to gather and spend money the old fashioned way. As UC continues to grow I still believe that ultimately Uptown will be a successful part of it.
May 28, 20223 yr I would not consider Uptown a failure, but it needs a spark. I find there to be something about the Midwest where people don't seem to walk and enjoy the assets of an urban area (generally speaking). Clevelanders come out for events like a Cavs game or at night to a bar or restaurant. In the northeast, people seem to be more active such as laying out on lawn an a beautiful day or jogging, biking. The lawn on top of the convention center is always empty and there should be residents using it, throwing the frisbee, football, picnicking. They say there are 20k living downtown, but it still looks and still feels like a ghost town, especially on the weekends. My point is foot traffic would do wonders for Uptown and the new apartments may help if people actually walked outside to do things other than to get in their car.
May 28, 20223 yr 23 minutes ago, newyorker said: I would not consider Uptown a failure, but it needs a spark. I find there to be something about the Midwest where people don't seem to walk and enjoy the assets of an urban area (generally speaking). Clevelanders come out for events like a Cavs game or at night to a bar or restaurant. In the northeast, people seem to be more active such as laying out on lawn an a beautiful day or jogging, biking. The lawn on top of the convention center is always empty and there should be residents using it, throwing the frisbee, football, picnicking. They say there are 20k living downtown, but it still looks and still feels like a ghost town, especially on the weekends. My point is foot traffic would do wonders for Uptown and the new apartments may help if people actually walked outside to do things other than to get in their car. I think the problem is all us Midwesterners are in the field tending to the corn.
May 28, 20223 yr Once Planet Fitness goes in, I don’t think there’s more than 1 or 2 other spaces available. And let’s not forget what’s above the retail. I would assume residential and office space there is 100% leased. They’ll do well selling this.
May 28, 20223 yr I feel like Uptown's mixed success has less to do with Midwestern culture and people not walk walking and more to do with competition/offerings. Uptown is right next to Little Italy. People come from all over Cleveland to come visit Little Italy and people in the neighborhood are always walking around the community. Where would people rather visit and walk around? A community of mixed and varied architecture with a large selection of small/local businesses? Or a stretch of uniform buildings primarily with fast-casual chain restaurants? That's not to say Uptown is bad. It fills a niche. But its niche isn't walkable area people want to visit to go walk around.
May 29, 20223 yr I'm in uptown frequently and it always seems to be busy during the 9 to 5 hour. I think some uses don't make sense because of the College/work crowd. I think a few more late night establishments such as bars would be helpful to the area. Edited May 29, 20223 yr by KFM44107
May 29, 20223 yr 5 hours ago, newyorker said: The lawn on top of the convention center is always empty and there should be residents using it, throwing the frisbee, football, picnicking. I’m not gonna pretend it’s Boston Common, but I see people (myself included) doing these things there when the weather is good. My hovercraft is full of eels
May 29, 20223 yr 9 hours ago, cadmen said: What to think?? With the mixed success of Uptown will this be something like a fire sale enabling MRN to simply cut their losses and live to fight (invest) another day? Or will a new buyer with a national reach come in with the goal of making it even stronger with a better group of retailers? i have to admit Uptown puzzles me. The design and location seem perfect. I get that storefront retail is struggling in America today but I thought there are still places where people want to gather and spend money the old fashioned way. As UC continues to grow I still believe that ultimately Uptown will be a successful part of it. Did you read the article? “Ari Maron, a member of Maron family-owned MRN, said in a phone interview that the company rarely sells any of its properties. But Uptown is in such good shape, and the investment market is so strong, Maron said, that MRN agreed with Rico Pietro, a Cresco principal, that it could be an opportune time to offer it for sale.”
May 29, 20223 yr This is what developers do. They imagine a project, convince others (banks), its a viable project, build it, stabilize it, then sell it for a profit. It's flipping just like anything else, just more visible and more time consuming.
May 29, 20223 yr Yes bumsquare, I read the article. I didn't say Uptown is a failure. But it hasn't been the rip-roaring success I and others thought it would. And the only reason I can think of is brick and mortar retail is not what it used to be. Maybe it needs a better mix of establishments, I don't know. Other than that, I can't think of what is holding it back. When I've been there I've noticed a lot of auto traffic but considerably less foot traffic. The shops and restaurants showing some life, just not close to what I had expected. There has been a not insignificant amount of turnover. Much more than you would expect if it was thriving. Now compared to what it replaced, well, there is no comparison. I think it's a wonderful work of modern architecture. Something rarely seen in these parts. And it's in a great location. It should be much more successful than it is. I don't pretend to know what financial shape it's in and maybe selling it at this time is nothing more than what kjp says...MRN simply wants to use the proceeds to invest in another project. Maybe they'll sell it at a profit even. But I'm not sure about that. It just seems to me that, based on the cost of land acquisition, construction, leasing, and managing I'm thinking MRN is not going to come out with the expected rate of return they were hoping for. And that's too bad if that is the case because we need more developers to take a chance on success and not be reticent over fear of failure.
May 29, 20223 yr What's there to be confused about? I think Uptown has been somewhat of a success. Do you think its been a great success then? Maybe the difference is just in our expectations because l thought it would be a huge magnet, drawing crowds on a daily basis and unfortunately that's not the case...yet anyway. I still think it can be more successful than it is. Maybe a tenant tweak. Maybe some organized public events. Something to get more activity there because, as l said, l think it's a great looking development in a great location.
May 29, 20223 yr I think the tenant turnover is pretty unremarkable. And most of the tenants now are nationwide, reliable tenants (eg, planet fitness, chipotle, bibibop, etc.) The businesses that failed were either mis suited to the area (eg Corner Alley) or closed for reasons that had nothing to do with the health of the district (eg Crop Kitchen). There are also more residents in the area than ever before. I’m personally disappointed by some of the closures (in particular Dynomite and Crop Kitchen), but the district is quite healthy and has good fundamentals.
May 30, 20223 yr How can a development that was once parking lots, helped jumpstart the residential boom in University Circle and provided a spark of life and energy in an area that didn't have it at first be seen as a failure. Uptown is 10+ years old and has had pretty steady tenants besides the local restaurants and businesses that didn't fit the area. The retail spaces that became vacant were replaced (quickly) with a more diverse but national retail presence (Chase, Verizon, Planet Fitness etc.). Chipotle, Panera Bread, Otani Noodle, Orange Theory Fitness, Mitchell's, even Barnes and Nobles Technically have been mainstays for years. Uptown to me now is a much more diverse and complete neighborhood than what it was when it launched and I think that speaks highly of the success of the development.The "lack of activity" can be attributed more to programming or Midwestern culture versus a development that isn't successful. Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk
May 30, 20223 yr 13 hours ago, LlamaLawyer said: I think the tenant turnover is pretty unremarkable. And most of the tenants now are nationwide, reliable tenants (eg, planet fitness, chipotle, bibibop, etc.) The businesses that failed were either mis suited to the area (eg Corner Alley) or closed for reasons that had nothing to do with the health of the district (eg Crop Kitchen). There are also more residents in the area than ever before. I’m personally disappointed by some of the closures (in particular Dynomite and Crop Kitchen), but the district is quite healthy and has good fundamentals. True, a couple weeks ago I was actually impressed with the amount of foot traffic in the area on a Friday night. I was thinking I could come back one evening and just kind of hang out and walk around with friends. It honestly seemed even livelier than Euclid Ave downtown on non game days.
May 30, 20223 yr 2 hours ago, Mov2Ohio said: True, a couple weeks ago I was actually impressed with the amount of foot traffic in the area on a Friday night. I was thinking I could come back one evening and just kind of hang out and walk around with friends. It honestly seemed even livelier than Euclid Ave downtown on non game days. This, particularly during the winter. Downtown gets a lot more dead when the weather is crummy. Uptown is much more consistently busy when it’s cold.
May 30, 20223 yr The Uptown development was created for and by CWRU. They hold a master lease on the majority of retail spaces making them the largest “tenant”. Any switch over in occupancy does not really effect MRN that much. CWRU though it’s affiliation with CIA leases the majority of the apartments there. Basically whoever buys the complex gets a guaranteed FIve Star partner in CWRU. If retail proves unsustainable there the spaces will be switched to more office/lab space ie Corner Alley conversion to the Harrington Discovery Institute.
May 30, 20223 yr ^ Yes, downtown is definitely not back to its pre-covid activity. Recently I met up with some friends visiting from Phoenix. They were staying downtown and I offered them a little walking tour. It was almost the reverse of Uptown. Much more street life with very little auto traffic. I guess that speaks to the 20,000 living downtown. Regardless, whatever foot traffic we saw paled in comparison to what I remember pre-covid. I think covid and the riot set us back a few years. plus WFH is not helping either along with particularly bad spring weather. At any rate, Uptown seems more energized than downtown at this point. Maybe my entire impression of Uptown is colored by by frequent trips to Boston and Phoenix. Both cities have way more people on the streets than we do. Phoenix has a new section of downtown that is full of new housing, retail and street festivals that really juice it up. There seemed to be some kind of event every day but my friends said they have to pack them in now before it gets too hot to go outside so there's that. I just want my town to develop, be active, be alive. We have made a tremendous amount of progress compared to where we started, say 40 years ago. I've lived each step of it. Maybe I'm just getting anxious in my old age...I want to see more and I want to see it faster. Is that asking too much lol.
May 30, 20223 yr 1 hour ago, cadmen said: ^ Yes, downtown is definitely not back to its pre-covid activity. Recently I met up with some friends visiting from Phoenix. They were staying downtown and I offered them a little walking tour. It was almost the reverse of Uptown. Much more street life with very little auto traffic. I guess that speaks to the 20,000 living downtown. Regardless, whatever foot traffic we saw paled in comparison to what I remember pre-covid. I think covid and the riot set us back a few years. plus WFH is not helping either along with particularly bad spring weather. At any rate, Uptown seems more energized than downtown at this point. Maybe my entire impression of Uptown is colored by by frequent trips to Boston and Phoenix. Both cities have way more people on the streets than we do. Phoenix has a new section of downtown that is full of new housing, retail and street festivals that really juice it up. There seemed to be some kind of event every day but my friends said they have to pack them in now before it gets too hot to go outside so there's that. I just want my town to develop, be active, be alive. We have made a tremendous amount of progress compared to where we started, say 40 years ago. I've lived each step of it. Maybe I'm just getting anxious in my old age...I want to see more and I want to see it faster. Is that asking too much lol. Not asking for much at all. I do think the cold rainy spring coming off the pandemic and work from home/virtual things has not helped. We will see this Summer as the Wade Oval Wednesdays fest and things similar start back up and get people out again.
May 30, 20223 yr 6 hours ago, cadmen said: I think covid and the riot set us back a few years. The “riots” setting Cleveland back “years” is a tired trope not supported by any evidence and needs to stop.
May 31, 20223 yr 2 hours ago, jeremyck01 said: The “riots” setting Cleveland back “years” is a tired trope not supported by any evidence and needs to stop. And will also get this thread locked.
June 21, 20222 yr Seven-story building considered in University Circle By Ken Prendergast / June 21, 2022 MRN Ltd., owner of the Uptown development it built on both sides of Euclid Avenue in Cleveland’s University Circle, is weighing its first expansion of the mixed-use complex in eight years. That potential expansion, a seven-story apartment building, comes less than one month after the Cleveland-based developer put its existing Uptown property up for sale. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2022/06/21/7-story-building-considered-in-university-circle/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 21, 20222 yr ^Your write up on the zoning concerns are a reminder of how desperately Uni Circle needs an urban overlay zoning redo. While we’re at it, let’s make sure that lot on Hessler has no max height and no parking requirement. When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?
June 21, 20222 yr 5 hours ago, KJP said: Seven-story building considered in University Circle By Ken Prendergast / June 21, 2022 MRN Ltd., owner of the Uptown development it built on both sides of Euclid Avenue in Cleveland’s University Circle, is weighing its first expansion of the mixed-use complex in eight years. That potential expansion, a seven-story apartment building, comes less than one month after the Cleveland-based developer put its existing Uptown property up for sale. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2022/06/21/7-story-building-considered-in-university-circle/ MRN Ltd. Partner Ari Maron sent the following e-mail message to NEOtrans exactly five hours after this article was published: "As a result of your article we have withdrawn our application for this project. Please update your blog." "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 21, 20222 yr 3 minutes ago, KJP said: MRN Ltd. Partner Ari Maron sent the following e-mail message to NEOtrans exactly five hours after this article was published: "As a result of your article we have withdrawn our application for this project. Please update your blog." Lol. But why?
June 21, 20222 yr 3 minutes ago, KJP said: MRN Ltd. Partner Ari Maron sent the following e-mail message to NEOtrans exactly five hours after this article was published: "As a result of your article we have withdrawn our application for this project. Please update your blog." That's very odd. They submitted these plans to the City, so they were public record. It's not as if you blew the lid off of their secrets.
June 21, 20222 yr Just now, X said: That's very odd. They submitted these plans to the City, so they were public record. It's not as if you blew the lid off of their secrets. Never seen it before in my life and I've been doing this for nearly 30 years. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 21, 20222 yr 1 minute ago, KJP said: Never seen it before in my life and I've been doing this for nearly 30 years. I have to think he's just trying to throw a brushback pitch at you for some reason.
June 21, 20222 yr 21 minutes ago, KJP said: MRN Ltd. Partner Ari Maron sent the following e-mail message to NEOtrans exactly five hours after this article was published: "As a result of your article we have withdrawn our application for this project. Please update your blog." lol wow.
June 21, 20222 yr “Let me withdraw my application for a project I would stand to make millions of dollars off of because @KJPwrote a blog post on NEOTrans”. …Right. edit: I believe KJP all day- its MRN who seems to be full of it. Edited June 21, 20222 yr by Oldmanladyluck
June 21, 20222 yr Odd. MRN submits plans which become public record, you report on it in your blog and they immediately retract. It's almost like they were baiting you. So Ken, coincidentally in a very tight timeframe l have seen you appear on local news, read about your reporting and also heard your reporting mentioned on local sports talk radio. Maybe MRN doesn't want an upstart who is outside the local mainstream media making news. In the old days reporting was cutthroat. Are we reliving a bit of the good old days when actual reporting took place? I hope so and l'm sure l speak for all of us on UO when l say "Keep up the good work."
June 21, 20222 yr Ah, a spicy dust up designed to bring more page views to NEOTrans and UO both. Brilliant Ken! Just kidding, @KJP. I too stand behind and appreciate both your journalism and opinions. Also, when you later announce a run for the Planning Commission, the added name recognition can't not help 😉.
June 22, 20222 yr The real tragedy is now Cleveland.com can't copy/paste and paraphrase another one of your articles, KJP.
June 22, 20222 yr On 6/21/2022 at 3:41 PM, KJP said: MRN Ltd. Partner Ari Maron sent the following e-mail message to NEOtrans exactly five hours after this article was published: "As a result of your article we have withdrawn our application for this project. Please update your blog." Blaming you for other problems? Remember: It's the Year of the Snake
June 23, 20222 yr 2 hours ago, Dougal said: Blaming you for other problems? Unbeknownst "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 27, 20222 yr "We want to keep the property for now," Maron said. "We decided that it has more potential." Maron declined to discuss whether that meant additional development options for potential sites near Uptown. "We'll discuss those with area stakeholders before anyone else," he said. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 27, 20222 yr I am endlessly curious to understand what happened here. I have no idea, but the most amusing idea to me is that @KJP's article pointed out something that MRN hadn't realized and they're now trying to approach their development a different way. All very odd.
June 27, 20222 yr 25 minutes ago, LlamaLawyer said: I am endlessly curious to understand what happened here. I have no idea, but the most amusing idea to me is that @KJP's article pointed out something that MRN hadn't realized and they're now trying to approach their development a different way. All very odd. Agreed! "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 28, 20222 yr 7 hours ago, LlamaLawyer said: I am endlessly curious to understand what happened here. I have no idea, but the most amusing idea to me is that @KJP's article pointed out something that MRN hadn't realized and they're now trying to approach their development a different way. All very odd. Live shot of Ari after reading NeoTrans:
June 28, 20222 yr 21 hours ago, LlamaLawyer said: I am endlessly curious to understand what happened here. I have no idea, but the most amusing idea to me is that @KJP's article pointed out something that MRN hadn't realized and they're now trying to approach their development a different way. All very odd. Yep. It could also suggest some measure of indecision and/or infighting within the company.
August 30, 20222 yr Work is well underway for the new Planet Fitness. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
April 24Apr 24 Chick-fil-A coming.... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
April 24Apr 24 3 minutes ago, KJP said: Chick-fil-A coming.... I was JUST WONDERING how long it would take to fill that Cle Clothing Space. A drive thru focused fast food restaurant being located in a walkable neighborhood like this is what I've been begging to become a trend in Cleveland like it is in other cities. Is a Chick-Fil-A exciting? No not necessarily, but I hope this creates a trend of going away from drive thru's in our best neighborhoods.
April 24Apr 24 24 minutes ago, MyPhoneDead said: I was JUST WONDERING how long it would take to fill that Cle Clothing Space. A drive thru focused fast food restaurant being located in a walkable neighborhood like this is what I've been begging to become a trend in Cleveland like it is in other cities. Is a Chick-Fil-A exciting? No not necessarily, but I hope this creates a trend of going away from drive thru's in our best neighborhoods. Saaaaaame here. A McDonald's, Burger King, Chick-fil-A, and similar fast food business opening with no drivethrough is a sign of a good walkable neighborhood. Currently they are limited to 8-10 big cities and bigger college campuses in the US. My friends think I'm joking, which I kind of am, but I will fully buy into Downtown Cleveland being back when a McDonald's with no drivethrough or dedicated parking spaces opens up.
April 24Apr 24 51 minutes ago, PlanCleveland said: Saaaaaame here. A McDonald's, Burger King, Chick-fil-A, and similar fast food business opening with no drivethrough is a sign of a good walkable neighborhood. Currently they are limited to 8-10 big cities and bigger college campuses in the US. My friends think I'm joking, which I kind of am, but I will fully buy into Downtown Cleveland being back when a McDonald's with no drivethrough or dedicated parking spaces opens up. I can remember at least four McDonald’s like that downtown at one time or another. Playhouse Square, lower Euclid, Tower city and Galleria.
April 24Apr 24 The space that intrigues me is space next to Beyond Juicery. It is so small, has no door access but is listed for lease, I wonder what can go in there.
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