nope, just a really ugly sign

 

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2011/09162011/image/Credit_Union_%201.jpg

 

What do you mean?  This link is Carnegie

nope, just a really ugly sign

 

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2011/09162011/image/Credit_Union_%201.jpg

 

The Credit Union sign is for a structure on the south side of Carnegie between E. 18th and E. 22nd. It has nothing to do with Uptown.

Looking good! 

 

Someone better shout it out the second some facade panels start getting hung!

Hi all - Long time no, um... read.

I drove by here last week for the first time in about a year. WOW is all I can say. Very nice to see.

Musky, where the F you been? 

 

Oh, and great to see things coming along!

Not sure if anyone knows more details, but this was on the Design Review District agenda two weeks ago:

 

8:00 EC2011-037: CWRU Triangle Tower 2 Retail Renovations ©

    11570 Euclid Avenue

    Gary Ogrocki, Dimit Architects

    Kevin Slesh, CWRU

 

 

This project is CWRU's renovation of the Triangle Tower 2's ground floor retail facade.  The purpose is to provide a needed facelift, making the spaces more marketable and the exterior fit in more appropriately with the neighboring Uptown project and alley.  The project will also create a pedestrian "arcade" between the rear parking lot and the alley, which is important because retail customer parking for this side of the development will be on the rear of Triangle 2.

Musky, where the F you been? 

 

Oh, and great to see things coming along!

 

I honestly do not know

Must have been a hell of a ride!

Not sure if anyone knows more details, but this was on the Design Review District agenda two weeks ago:

 

8:00 EC2011-037: CWRU Triangle Tower 2 Retail Renovations ©

    11570 Euclid Avenue

    Gary Ogrocki, Dimit Architects

    Kevin Slesh, CWRU

 

 

This project is CWRU's renovation of the Triangle Tower 2's ground floor retail facade.  The purpose is to provide a needed facelift, making the spaces more marketable and the exterior fit in more appropriately with the neighboring Uptown project and alley.  The project will also create a pedestrian "arcade" between the rear parking lot and the alley, which is important because retail customer parking for this side of the development will be on the rear of Triangle 2.

 

Thanks for the info. I'd been wondering how parking for the UARD retail spaces would work. 

i like it but i wish there was more height, like 2-3 more stories and it would be perfect.

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2011/10/stores_restaurants_sign_on_at.html

 

 

well there you go.  Some details emerge.

Thanks for the post.

 

Wow...retail space 95% leased months before it opens.  LETS START PHASE 2.

i like it but i wish there was more height, like 2-3 more stories and it would be perfect.

 

If neighborhood interests would back off, I think this area will get some height very soon.  The success of Uptown will prove that UC still needs a lot more upscale apartments.

Thanks for the post.

 

Wow...retail space 95% leased months before it opens.  LETS START PHASE 2.

 

Phase 2 consists of the parking across Euclid from MOCA, right?

^Yes indeed.  Ironically, that's the site where shadows from more height would affect Hessler the most.  I think the site plans have also shown more development between MOCA and Phase I on the south side of Euclid- sometimes it's shown as "office" but I'd guess it still be anything if it happens.  Can't wait to see the rental rates on those residential units, they really should fetch a pretty high rent by local standards.

 

Tenant mix sounds pretty good so far.  I'm definitely excited to hear more about the Sawyer place.

Correct.  If the residential is as popular as the retail, perhaps MRN may be inclined to make phase II taller.  It could present an interesting look if it split the difference between phase I and the building on the NW corner of Ford and Euclid

The residential will do very well. It caters to a market that has long been pent up. In regards to phase 2, MRN does not own that land. They do have an option on that property, but they must exercise it within a year or so.

I heard from a reliable source that the developer wants to go as high as possible on phase 2 but financing for a taller building remains an issue.  I would rather wait a year for it to be done the right way than to have it be done wrong right now.  I would expect phase 2 to be announced when the apartments start renting.

I heard from a reliable source that the developer wants to go as high as possible on phase 2 but financing for a taller building remains an issue.  I would rather wait a year for it to be done the right way than to have it be done wrong right now.  I would expect phase 2 to be announced when the apartments start renting.

 

That's encouraging. I bet it would fill up immediately; students/singles will find the area appealing once Uptown opens and there's suddenly stuff to do on Euclid again. Little Italy is still walking distance, and no hill to traverse in the winter for people going to work/class at CWRU.

 

I'm personally trying to get a place at Uptown, so if anyone hears anything about that, let us know...

Rant of the day.

 

I am so happy to see this project progress....but what really irks me is that a company like Forest City, with the ability to finance much easier than all these small developers working in the area, doesn't come in and committ to a project.  I know they have shareholders to answer to but it seems as though it is becoming very clear that these many projects of varying size are going to be a success (and in a rotten economy).  They seem to be willing to do mega projects across the nation (although they seem to be the kings of doing projects with public subsidies)...couldn't they do something for their hometown and say, buy that used car lot on Euclid around E 116th. and build a 20-25 high end apartment building (something I think would be very popular as there are not many of that type of apartment options in the neighborhood.

 

Rant over.

I think depending on Forest City for anything other than giving explainations like "we don't create demand, we just respond to it," is a waste of time.  I commend them for expertly renovating the exterior of the Terminal Tower, but I can't think of a significant project they've executed in Cleveland since Tower City in the late 1980's, a project they started, but didn't have the skill or ability to finish and assure long term success.  Unfortunately they own a significant amount of land in prominent places in the City and will hang onto it for a maximum return regardless of how long that takes (Scranton Penninsula).  Good for business perhaps, but not for smaller local developers that would actually make something happen, or for the City which is clearly ready for more development in certain areas.

Anyways...  Back to Uptown...

If you view yourself as a top-tier development company, you don't do middle-tier projects except in special situations. That goes for many different types of businesses - big law firms don't take minor criminal cases, big design firms don't design small apartment buildings. That helps them maintain a consist 'portfolio', although it doesn't absolutely preclude them from having a 'community development' wing or whatever. I agree it would be nice for them to be more active, but don't expect it. If business conditions change substantially, anything is possible.

 

I really, really, like MRN. They're making money, and they keep doing new stuff. Works for me.

If you view yourself as a top-tier development company, you don't do middle-tier projects except in special situations. That goes for many different types of businesses - big law firms don't take minor criminal cases, big design firms don't design small apartment buildings. That helps them maintain a consist 'portfolio', although it doesn't absolutely preclude them from having a 'community development' wing or whatever. I agree it would be nice for them to be more active, but don't expect it. If business conditions change substantially, anything is possible.

 

I really, really, like MRN. They're making money, and they keep doing new stuff. Works for me.

 

I'm glad Forest City isn't doing this project. If they were, we'd be seeing a Cheesecake Factory instead of a Jonathan Sawyer restaurant. Because of Ari Maron's work on East 4th and in Ohio City, he's developed some very good connections with Cleveland's young and unique entrepreneurs. 

^I don't know if I would want Forest City doing the actual UCI uptown project either for the reason you give...my point is that there are 4-5 relatively small developers taking a risk and finding success in the area, and you would think (hope) that FC could throw us a bone and committ to some sort of project (again given their resources) that would kept the momentum going.  I see archangel's point...but maybe I consider University Circle the "special situation" you suggest given it is in their hometown and is the second most important area of the city (some might say the most important).  And again, it is not charity...you could argue it would be a solid business move that could benefit shareholders.  Other developers in the area seem to be doing OK (again with a questionable economy).

^Yes indeed.  Ironically, that's the site where shadows from more height would affect Hessler the most.  I think the site plans have also shown more development between MOCA and Phase I on the south side of Euclid- sometimes it's shown as "office" but I'd guess it still be anything if it happens.  Can't wait to see the rental rates on those residential units, they really should fetch a pretty high rent by local standards.

 

Tenant mix sounds pretty good so far.  I'm definitely excited to hear more about the Sawyer place.

 

Thanks, that's what I thought.  It is crazy to see these pictures.  Last time I walked down this section of Euclid was to go to the Blue Fig and catch the Healthline back to CSU and it was nothing but surface parking.  All great to see!

If you view yourself as a top-tier development company, you don't do middle-tier projects except in special situations. That goes for many different types of businesses - big law firms don't take minor criminal cases, big design firms don't design small apartment buildings. That helps them maintain a consist 'portfolio', although it doesn't absolutely preclude them from having a 'community development' wing or whatever. I agree it would be nice for them to be more active, but don't expect it. If business conditions change substantially, anything is possible.

 

I really, really, like MRN. They're making money, and they keep doing new stuff. Works for me.

 

I'm glad Forest City isn't doing this project. If they were, we'd be seeing a Cheesecake Factory instead of a Jonathan Sawyer restaurant. Because of Ari Maron's work on East 4th and in Ohio City, he's developed some very good connections with Cleveland's young and unique entrepreneurs. 

I understand your point, but instead of Chipoltle and Panera, you may be seeing the Cheesecake Factory and PF Chang. 

If you view yourself as a top-tier development company, you don't do middle-tier projects except in special situations. That goes for many different types of businesses - big law firms don't take minor criminal cases, big design firms don't design small apartment buildings. That helps them maintain a consist 'portfolio', although it doesn't absolutely preclude them from having a 'community development' wing or whatever. I agree it would be nice for them to be more active, but don't expect it. If business conditions change substantially, anything is possible.

 

I really, really, like MRN. They're making money, and they keep doing new stuff. Works for me.

 

I'm glad Forest City isn't doing this project. If they were, we'd be seeing a Cheesecake Factory instead of a Jonathan Sawyer restaurant. Because of Ari Maron's work on East 4th and in Ohio City, he's developed some very good connections with Cleveland's young and unique entrepreneurs. 

I understand your point, but instead of Chipoltle and Panera, you may be seeing the Cheesecake Factory and PF Chang. 

 

Chipotle and Panera take up significantly less space than Cheesecake and PF Chang. And this project wouldn't be happening at all if it was forest city. I think Chipotle and Panera are actually a nice fit for the neighborhood. The college kids will be all over those places for a quick snack.

Agreed.  Cleveland needs more upscale chain presence, but not right here.

^Actually, I think Chipolte and Panera are more in line with the demographic (students and professionals looking for a quick lunch) than Cheesecake Factory and PF Chang, and would have been solicited first by Maron.  For the more expensive demo (the dinner crowd made up of UC professionals, Heights residents or downtown office workers going home), I think they would be more interested in a Sawyer restaurant than Cheesecake or Chang.

Rant of the day.

 

I am so happy to see this project progress....but what really irks me is that a company like Forest City, with the ability to finance much easier than all these small developers working in the area, doesn't come in and committ to a project.  I know they have shareholders to answer to but it seems as though it is becoming very clear that these many projects of varying size are going to be a success (and in a rotten economy).  They seem to be willing to do mega projects across the nation (although they seem to be the kings of doing projects with public subsidies)...couldn't they do something for their hometown and say, buy that used car lot on Euclid around E 116th. and build a 20-25 high end apartment building (something I think would be very popular as there are not many of that type of apartment options in the neighborhood.

 

Rant over.

I also wish someone would build a mid/high rise residential project, unfortunately the rents in Cleveland wouldn't come close to making it a profitable venture.  If apartment rents were around $3PSF, then you would definitely be seeing someone building vertical, but they're much closer to half of that downtown.  :-(

Rant of the day.

 

I am so happy to see this project progress....but what really irks me is that a company like Forest City, with the ability to finance much easier than all these small developers working in the area, doesn't come in and committ to a project.  I know they have shareholders to answer to but it seems as though it is becoming very clear that these many projects of varying size are going to be a success (and in a rotten economy).  They seem to be willing to do mega projects across the nation (although they seem to be the kings of doing projects with public subsidies)...couldn't they do something for their hometown and say, buy that used car lot on Euclid around E 116th. and build a 20-25 high end apartment building (something I think would be very popular as there are not many of that type of apartment options in the neighborhood.

 

Rant over.

I also wish someone would build a mid/high rise residential project, unfortunately the rents in Cleveland wouldn't come close to making it a profitable venture.  If apartment rents were around $3PSF, then you would definitely be seeing someone building vertical, but they're much closer to half of that downtown.  :-(

 

Please explain your methodology?  What is the basis of your statement?

So the Barnes & Noble is just a college bookstore? I have to admit, I'm not exactly surprised but definitely a little disappointed.

So the Barnes & Noble is just a college bookstore? I have to admit, I'm not exactly surprised but definitely a little disappointed.

 

Yes it will include the campus book store but I think it will also have a decent sized area that is like a normal Barnes and Noble.  If they are naming it a Barnes and Noble I don't think they will only specialize in textbooks.

Rant of the day.

 

I am so happy to see this project progress....but what really irks me is that a company like Forest City, with the ability to finance much easier than all these small developers working in the area, doesn't come in and committ to a project.  I know they have shareholders to answer to but it seems as though it is becoming very clear that these many projects of varying size are going to be a success (and in a rotten economy).  They seem to be willing to do mega projects across the nation (although they seem to be the kings of doing projects with public subsidies)...couldn't they do something for their hometown and say, buy that used car lot on Euclid around E 116th. and build a 20-25 high end apartment building (something I think would be very popular as there are not many of that type of apartment options in the neighborhood.

 

Rant over.

I also wish someone would build a mid/high rise residential project, unfortunately the rents in Cleveland wouldn't come close to making it a profitable venture.  If apartment rents were around $3PSF, then you would definitely be seeing someone building vertical, but they're much closer to half of that downtown.  :-(

 

Please explain your methodology?  What is the basis of your statement?

The economics of building mid/high rise apartments.  If it costs you $260PSF to build, not including a parking garage or land cost, people can't be paying $1400 a month for a 1,000SF apartment.  Even if you believed that there are enough people that would be willing to pay the premium for a new building, you won't be able to get adequate financing because you are so far off of the market comps.  Not only would someone have to be confident in a market for high-rent apartments, they also would need to have private financing that is as confident.  When everyone in the market is paying $1.10-1.90PSF, its hard to build a model for rents that are double that.

So the Barnes & Noble is just a college bookstore? I have to admit, I'm not exactly surprised but definitely a little disappointed.

 

From what I've read it will be similar to The Ohio State University Book store. The first floor is a typical Barnes and Noble, upstairs it has books for Ohio State Courses as well as college gear. I would recommend anyone review that book store to get a better idea of what Uptown will be getting.

Rant of the day.

 

I am so happy to see this project progress....but what really irks me is that a company like Forest City, with the ability to finance much easier than all these small developers working in the area, doesn't come in and committ to a project.  I know they have shareholders to answer to but it seems as though it is becoming very clear that these many projects of varying size are going to be a success (and in a rotten economy).  They seem to be willing to do mega projects across the nation (although they seem to be the kings of doing projects with public subsidies)...couldn't they do something for their hometown and say, buy that used car lot on Euclid around E 116th. and build a 20-25 high end apartment building (something I think would be very popular as there are not many of that type of apartment options in the neighborhood.

 

Rant over.

I also wish someone would build a mid/high rise residential project, unfortunately the rents in Cleveland wouldn't come close to making it a profitable venture.  If apartment rents were around $3PSF, then you would definitely be seeing someone building vertical, but they're much closer to half of that downtown.  :-(

 

Please explain your methodology?  What is the basis of your statement?

The economics of building mid/high rise apartments.  If it costs you $260PSF to build, not including a parking garage or land cost, people can't be paying $1400 a month for a 1,000SF apartment.  Even if you believed that there are enough people that would be willing to pay the premium for a new building, you won't be able to get adequate financing because you are so far off of the market comps.  Not only would someone have to be confident in a market for high-rent apartments, they also would need to have private financing that is as confident.  When everyone in the market is paying $1.10-1.90PSF, its hard to build a model for rents that are double that.

 

This seems like it could be flawed, since you dont take into consideration mixed us buildings.  Also, apartments are very hot here and the market would set the rent.  New build can bring up the market rates.

 

Now had you said a Condo, I would agree as the financing for them is strict.

actually I think tkm is pretty spot on. Unless a developer can find a lot of subsidy, apartment rates would have to be approximately double what they are in the current market to justify the costs of new construction. Now if a developer can find financing entities to buy into the fact that there is a market to pay those rents its possible to get it done. That's just hard right now when most "market rate" buildings are getting as he notes approx $1.10-1.90 psf.

 

Though there is some credence to the mixed use aspect. I do know that uptown is being underwritten by the retail as there is a pretty big dearth of it in UC, which is defraying some of the costs of the residential aspect. In the end each project is viewed individually on its scale, make up, and potential risk to lenders. I am as interested as everyone to see what the rental rates are for these units. If we want to see more development like this, rents are going to have to appreciate substantially (in both residential and commercial retail and office aspects). Perhaps this can help set a market and upward trend. For some reason clevelander's appetites for housing budget is substantially lower than many other major metropolitan areas in the country.

I'm curious where you came up with $260 PSF.  There are municipal estimates available and this is very high.  NYC costs are around $282/PSF for an 8-24 story apartment.  By comparison, Seattle is $222, Baltimore is $196, Dallas is $181.  My numbers are from Reed Construction Data.

 

Depending on the financing, taxes, property costs, and various incentives (state and local) these prices fluctuate.  And while you are right that there is more of a speculative angle to the profitability of developments in Cleveland, it is not abnormal for developers to arrange for riskier projects that can only succeed if variables out of their control work out.  For example, developing Pesht would have been a significant risk, but the multi-use urban neighborhood that it would have created is a model that works in many other cities.  Market values won't rise without an impetus, and there is only so much that the public sector and non profit (CC, UH) can do before developers need to push to the tipping point.

 

true true true. but in the end, that risk is one of the many reasons pesht fell apart. As I said, each project ends up evaluated on its own merits.

 

And fwiw I believe typical newcon costs here are roughly around $175 psf. and true rental rates would have to push $3psf for it to really make financial sense for developers/lenders. Which is roughly a little more than double what average rates are getting right now. Most market rate units are going in the $1.35-1.40 range, though some... see 668 / euclid block are starting to push that $1.90 range. and the floor for market rate is generally the $90-$1.10 range. so its not that these things are impossible but I hope this explains why it is so hard to get these things done. Again, I'm really intersted to see where uptown comes in at and see if it can start pushing things higher. Don't forget these people are running charities for the good of the city, they need to make profits, which is also intriniscally more difficult on rentals as compared to for sale unless you have a huge book of rentals in your portfolio.

We should probably have a thread on this topic.  Interesting stuff.  I would like to learn more.

^Agree...I am curious if anybody can explain Atlanta given the above.  I would imagine rents are pretty low there (this is an assumption on my part given how affordable owner-occupied housing is there) but they still seem to have built an extensive array of high rise housing over the years both in the city and more out lying areas.  Possible factors I could think...more of demand given a young demo who might want such housing or just general cost of construction is lower.

I believe it is because financing is different now.  Projects aren't being built on spec anymore with only private dollars.  Atlanta was built up during the housing bubble.  Same with Charlotte.... but that new residential tower in Uptown Charlotte with 5 lights on at night doesn't speak too well to the prospects of high-rise residential projects in this economic climate.

I'm curious where you came up with $260 PSF.  There are municipal estimates available and this is very high.  NYC costs are around $282/PSF for an 8-24 story apartment.  By comparison, Seattle is $222, Baltimore is $196, Dallas is $181.  My numbers are from Reed Construction Data.

 

Depending on the financing, taxes, property costs, and various incentives (state and local) these prices fluctuate.  And while you are right that there is more of a speculative angle to the profitability of developments in Cleveland, it is not abnormal for developers to arrange for riskier projects that can only succeed if variables out of their control work out.  For example, developing Pesht would have been a significant risk, but the multi-use urban neighborhood that it would have created is a model that works in many other cities.  Market values won't rise without an impetus, and there is only so much that the public sector and non profit (CC, UH) can do before developers need to push to the tipping point.

That was a rough number I got from a friend in Boston, it may be a little high due to their slightly increased costs, but I have seen numbers in the $210-260 range for local construction estimates.  Again, that does somewhat depend on the methods used, but a high end building would need to encorporate some of the "bells & whistles".  I agree its up to the developers to push the projects and get something new out there to show that the market can hold it, its just another story when you've got to shoulder an eight figure loan because banks won't underwrite the project alone (due to the deviation of rents from all the market comps).

 

This seems like it could be flawed, since you dont take into consideration mixed us buildings.  Also, apartments are very hot here and the market would set the rent.  New build can bring up the market rates.

 

Now had you said a Condo, I would agree as the financing for them is strict.

Yes the new building will bring up the rents, but banks won't underwrite a project based on rents that are more than a few percentage points out of the current market rent.  They're conservative and thats just how they operate. And mixed used won't help that much. Retail rents are pretty soft right now as well.

Two things:

 

1) Some "skin" is going up today on the north side of Euclid on at least two different locations...only a few panels--but still this is UO ;)

 

2) I spoke to a Case alumnus last night and she told me she has actually been priced out of University Circle, specifically the Triangle Towers.  She said they have raised her rent every year, and Downtown living is now cheaper for her.  She moved from a two bedroom in the Triangle to a 2-3 Bedroom in Reserve Square for almost $400-500 less.  The demand for apartments in UC is so pent up, the Triangle could keep raising their prices and remain at almost 100% occupancy....perfect timing for Uptown and Hazel Dr.

^ Triangle is stupidly expensive because CWRU owns it and is milking it for cash. You'd think it would be the other way around, but they deliberately want to limit it to students, including a lot of foreign students who are willing to pay for the convenience, and like you said, no other good options, so you get decent apartments renting for 1000-1100 there, which is 200-300 more than they 'should' be. Most people who live there are CWRU grad students, and predominantly but not all foreign.

 

I spoke to a Case alumnus last night and she told me she has actually been priced out of University Circle, specifically the Triangle Towers.  She said they have raised her rent every year, and Downtown living is now cheaper for her.  She moved from a two bedroom in the Triangle to a 2-3 Bedroom in Reserve Square for almost $400-500 less.  The demand for apartments in UC is so pent up, the Triangle could keep raising their prices and remain at almost 100% occupancy....perfect timing for Uptown and Hazel Dr.

 

Adding to this and the discussion on the previous page, I don't think $1,400 is high rent for 1,000 sq ft. I'm paying $800 per month for a 850 sq ft in Lakewood (and I own, so I have no profit margin). Sometimes I think downtown Cleveland's housing rent is held down more by what our experience has been in the past, rather than lifted up by what our expectations are for the future.

KJP, poetic stuff there - and in many ways true.

 

We've all heard various numbers but the downtown occupancy rates for rental apartments are very high, much higher than most developers need to inspire further building.  Based on what MurrayHill said about the pricing, one could foresee downtown getting even more demand from the growing population/prices in Uptown.  Conversion costs of buildings on E. 9th would be lower than full building expenses (though each building has its own challenges) and should be the direction City policy directs developers to move. 

 

Sadly it is true that the economics don't work out for a WHD infill project without higher overall rates, or superior/new demand coming from people with more money.  In Kyle Ezell's book "Retire Downtown: The Lifestyle Destination for Active Retirees and Empty Nesters" he discusses the benefits of bringing baby boomers back into the city.  This group has a lot more money to spend, and bring with them higher expectations for comfort.  One could easily sell higher cost apartment (larger floor plans and high cost psf) to this group.  Once housing prices normalize many baby boomers (hitting 65+) will be interested in selling their houses and downsizing anyhow.

 

 

This truly gets at the root of development, financing, and demand -- and I agree with Hts - we should have a dedicated thread to discussing housing costs, development fundamentals, and areas that are most likely to see development in the near term.

 

 

I spoke to a Case alumnus last night and she told me she has actually been priced out of University Circle, specifically the Triangle Towers.  She said they have raised her rent every year, and Downtown living is now cheaper for her.  She moved from a two bedroom in the Triangle to a 2-3 Bedroom in Reserve Square for almost $400-500 less.  The demand for apartments in UC is so pent up, the Triangle could keep raising their prices and remain at almost 100% occupancy....perfect timing for Uptown and Hazel Dr.

 

Adding to this and the discussion on the previous page, I don't think $1,400 is high rent for 1,000 sq ft. I'm paying $800 per month for a 850 sq ft in Lakewood (and I own, so I have no profit margin). Sometimes I think downtown Cleveland's housing rent is held down more by what our experience has been in the past, rather than lifted up by what our expectations are for the future.

 

Agree, but would like to add, it's not just rents in the city that are uber cheap its the entire region.  I suspect with all the building things will jump in the next few years.

 

I spoke to a Case alumnus last night and she told me she has actually been priced out of University Circle, specifically the Triangle Towers.  She said they have raised her rent every year, and Downtown living is now cheaper for her.  She moved from a two bedroom in the Triangle to a 2-3 Bedroom in Reserve Square for almost $400-500 less.  The demand for apartments in UC is so pent up, the Triangle could keep raising their prices and remain at almost 100% occupancy....perfect timing for Uptown and Hazel Dr.

 

Adding to this and the discussion on the previous page, I don't think $1,400 is high rent for 1,000 sq ft. I'm paying $800 per month for a 850 sq ft in Lakewood (and I own, so I have no profit margin). Sometimes I think downtown Cleveland's housing rent is held down more by what our experience has been in the past, rather than lifted up by what our expectations are for the future.

 

Are we talking rents or mortgages or both?