What he said:

 

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=41.509586,-81.604117&spn=0.002856,0.004823&t=h&z=18

 

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=41.509782,-81.604294&spn=0.002872,0.004823&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=41.510307,-81.603628&panoid=q-OWG4hTPD_wHVTnRpTIXw&cbp=12,268.22,,0,-5.11

 

 

Now that 668 is finished and a smashing success, I feel the Uptown project is the most transformative going on in Cleveland right now.  To lose that rather large surface lot by Hessler Ct. and lose that ugly Triangle complex on the other side and have them replaced with really a strong design that is meant to attract and keep the human element, both for living and playing, is going to do wonders for that whole neighborhood, and by extension, the city.

Im excited for this project. I wonder how long it will take for all the phases to be completed. I'm also exited for them to move the rapid station to mayfield rd

Now that 668 is finished and a smashing success, I feel the Uptown project is the most transformative going on in Cleveland right now. To lose that rather large surface lot by Hessler Ct. and lose that ugly Triangle complex on the other side and have them replaced with really a strong design that is meant to attract and keep the human element, both for living and playing, is going to do wonders for that whole neighborhood, and by extension, the city.

I couldn't agree more! This project could do wonders for the city. And after this one, the Schofield project will be very transformative too. I love that there is still a demand to live in the city

I haven't been by the site this week.  Is there construction activity going on?  From what I heard, they were planning on starting Monday.

I haven't been by the site this week. Is there construction activity going on? From what I heard, they were planning on starting Monday.

 

I can tell you after lunch on Friday.....

I drove by Monday night, and while there was some fencing up, there wasn't a lot of construction activity just yet. But, you know, they were a grand total of 8 hours into the project at that point.

I drove by Monday night, and while there was some fencing up, there wasn't a lot of construction activity just yet. But, you know, they were a grand total of 8 hours into the project at that point.

 

I drove by last night and it looked the same to me, but it was pretty dark.

Fencing is indeed up on the eastern end of the north side of Euclid.  Cars still parking on the western end and I imagine they will be for the foreseeable future until Phase 2 gets started.

Is that lot on the north side of Euclid slated for two phases?  I thought that was going to be all one long structure.  Searching back for the footprint, I noticed that the buildings will be only 3 stories.  I thought the plans called for them to be 4 stories each?  I guess it is just part of the scale down?

I may be wrong, but I was under the impression that currently the western portion of the north lot is not being built on in this phase.  In other words the corner of Mayfield and Ford.

 

I think the project was scaled back a bit when Zaremba pulled out and condos were put on hold.  This is just speculation on my part, but I think that perhaps they believe this corner might be the best spot for condos if the market comes back some day so it will be developed in Phase 2 down the road.  If not they just might go ahead and do more apartments. 

They just paved the western portion of the lot on the north side of euclid so that section is definitely not being developed in the next couple of years.  The fencing put up today shows what the footprint of the new building will be and I am glad to say that it looks pretty big.  I was kind of worried how much of the parking lot would be developed in this phase and I would guess its almost two-thirds.  The renderings in the last plain dealer article show 4 stories.  I think it went from 5 stories to 4 when zaremba pulled out.  They were cutting down a few trees backing up to Hessler today, I'm sure the Hessler folks will love that.  Also Case had this article on their website that says that the Barnes and Noble will be two floors.  It will be interesting to see how that will be integrated into the design.

 

http://blog.case.edu/case-news/2010/07/30/uptown

I'm surprised to hear Barnes & Noble is putting a store there, especially now that they're trying to find a buyer.  Expansion is probably not the most prudent thing to do, and I wouldn't be surprised if they bail.

I'm surprised to hear Barnes & Noble is putting a store there, especially now that they're trying to find a buyer. Expansion is probably not the most prudent thing to do, and I wouldn't be surprised if they bail.

 

Part of the Barnes and Noble thing has to do with the fact that they run most University bookstores now.  I'm pretty sure the Case bookstore plans to relocate from Thwing.

The renderings in the last plain dealer article show 4 stories. I think it went from 5 stories to 4 when zaremba pulled out.

 

That's what I thought, but check this out.  http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/bza/agenda/2010/pdf/crr7-6-10.pdf  Seems to call for 3 story buildings - first floor retail and two floors of residences above that.

well that is disappointing

 

 

This article published in April specifically says 4 stories down from 5 stories.  If anyone knows the real number of floors that would be great.  3 floors is too short for this part of town  4 stories is even too short compared to surrounding buildings.

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/architecture/2010/04/new_apartments_designed_by_arc.html

 

3 floors is too short for this part of town 4 stories is even too short compared to surrounding buildings.

 

But not too short when compared to a surface lot.

 

If 3 floors is what is submitted for approval to the appropriate government commissions, then that is what it is going to be you'd have to assume.  Sure, I would have liked taller buildings, but if you think about it, we should be focusing on vibrancy not how this project might contribute to UC's growing ableit modest skyline.  The whole strip on Coventry is not more than 3 floors and it exudes vibrancy.  Same with Little Italy.  For the most part, the best parts of downtown are found in holes in the skyline when viewing from a distance. 

 

The important parts of this project are that the buildings are designed appropriately in terms of the basic concepts we should advocate for with first floor retail, built up to street on a major avenue, at a critical intersection (perhaps the most critical outside of downtown), etc.  I wish they would have done something different with the parking, but at least it is in the rear and out of sight from the street.  Also, I do believe that other phases of this project, if it is successful, call for taller structures which will be built in unused lots to the southeast of the intersection.

 

Anyone know if that hotel is still going to be built across Mayfield, behind the strip on the SW corner of this intersection?

I think three floors is perfect.  A more human scale, less of a sunless cannyon in the winter.

Yeah, I don't see the problem with 3 floors in a dense residential/commercial neighborhood.  Many vibrant parts of Chicago are 2 or 3 story buildings.  Vibrant parts of Lakewood and Cleveland Heights are full of them.  (Actually, most of the buildings on Coventry and Lee Rd. are either one or two stories.)

Considering the lack of population growth in the region, building too dense might take away vibrancy from other nearby successful areas. It takes time (and maybe a mortgage modification) to convince people to move out from the outer-ring suburbs and back to civilization.

 

Let the area become popular, then the density will be in demand.

Count me as mildly disappointed by the shrinking building sizes because of the reduced unit count.  102 units is tiny.  Less than half the count for 668 Euclid.  I know it's only phase one, but I believe it's most of the footprint that the overall plans envision for residential, so even if it takes off, it's not like the plans can be retooled to fit tons more units in there.  Especially since a big chunk reserved for future phases is adjacent to Hessler, so certainly won't be built tall.  I'm not blaming the developer here- I'm sure they have excellent reasons to be cautious.

 

From an urban design perspective, I'm also not crazy about the uniform height for two long buildings on either side of the street, but that's the same whether 3, 4 or 5 stories.  This sounds like a pretty dull silhouette.  Maybe there are enough cutouts to break it up, we'll see.  I note that this is pretty wide right of way here, so, IMHO, 4 stories would not materially detract from the ped experience.

 

Most of all though I'm psyched for construction to start- I still love the project.

 

 

Considering the lack of population growth in the region, building too dense might take away vibrancy from other nearby successful areas. It takes time (and maybe a mortgage modification) to convince people to move out from the outer-ring suburbs and back to civilization.

 

That's a fair point, but I think the bigger danger is all this new retail/restaurant space coming on line without additional population to support it.  There are not a lot of brand new rental units in the city or inner ring burbs so this is broadening the product choice as much as cannibalizing it.

That's a fair point, but I think the bigger danger is all this new retail/restaurant space coming on line without additional population to support it. There are not a lot of brand new rental units in the city or inner ring burbs so this is broadening the product choice as much as cannibalizing it.

 

It's very true that new rentals are very rare, which makes me worry that this new development might cannibalize the heavy graduate student population living in Little Italy and Coventry because they "have to." Then again, I have faith that this project will generate great interest in commuters who work at UH/CC. Many of those people dislike Coventry/LI exactly because the housing stock is so old and lacking in amenities.

^As described by the developers, these units aren't targeted towards graduate students, but rather to young doctors (residents?), nurses and other professionals willing to pay more for proximity, amenities and new.  I don't know how many of these folks currently live in the old walk-ups of Coventry and Little Italy, but my guess is that it's not a ton.  Would be an interesting question, actually, that UH and the Clinic could answer.

Why are we worried about cannibalizing?  If people move, there will be more than enough people to move in LI/Coventry.  It may clue owners/management company's into upgrading their buildings to compete.

Well, hopefully you're right...and hopefully LI/Cov. won't be taken over by elements that destroy its current quality. "Elements" meaning people who don't know how to behave in a communal setting and trash properties. Hopefully property owners would never become that desperate to rent to such a crowd of yahoos.

Everyone needs to take another look at this - http://media.cleveland.com/pdgraphics_impact/photo/08uptownjpg-0225cdb31424b65a.jpg  The residential possibilities in this entire project are endless.  It's probably not such a bad idea that they are starting small because, if these units are snatched up like the rentals at 668 were, they will have an easy sell to lenders for they want for phase 2 and beyond.

Wow I didn't realize how much work was happening in Uptown in the next couple years. That could be a really cool place to live, and I think I should consider it more strongly in the future when I'm looking for an apartment.

Everyone needs to take another look at this - http://media.cleveland.com/pdgraphics_impact/photo/08uptownjpg-0225cdb31424b65a.jpg  The residential possibilities in this entire project are endless.  It's probably not such a bad idea that they are starting small because, if these units are snatched up like the rentals at 668 were, they will have an easy sell to lenders for they want for phase 2 and beyond.

 

From that diagram, only buildings 2, 3 and 8 are slated for non-student housing.  B/c of Hessler, building 2 is unlikely to be much taller than the first phase; building 8 has a small footprint and the site depends on the relocation of the supportive housing next door.  That leaves building 3, which has always been shown as office or residential.  It's early, I'm sure the master plan will change, and I'm excited about this project, but this first phase is eating up a lot of the easiest land area to develop.  That's mostly a good thing, but also makes me mildly disappointed it will be eaten up with relatively small buildings and low unit count.  Don't mean to exaggerate the disappointment though.

I'm not worried about cannibalizing. This is exactly the type of development this area needs. They can build the highrise apartment buildings on top of parking garages later.

 

Don't write off graduate student demand though. Many of them have more money (or loan proceeds) than they know what to do with.

 

I wonder what "student housing" means, too? Apartments at market rate that only rent to students, like what Case does with the old apartment buildings on E. 115th [not the Village]?

Between UH and the Clinic, I think the entire uptown project could be filled with 10% of the new hires coming into the area.  If anything, this project will spur a lot of other projects once developers see how quickly these apartements are filled

They've demolished the building in front of the CIA. The one that used to hold the McDonalds and Mr Hero.

^Nice!  Can't wait to see this thing rise.

^^ You mean that triangle apartment complex? The whole thing or just that retail area...or am I not in the ballpark?

The apartments are staying.  The retail section was always slated for demolition.... to make way for both the Uptown and MOCA projects.

The foundation is starting to go in for the building on the north side of Euclid. It will be exciting to see the final footprint is in the next few weeks.  So far it appears that it will take up a good portion of that stretch between E 115th and Mayfield

any updates

 

^^I drove by today and was indeed surprised by how far they have progressed with the foundation since I went by last week.  Also, while not related to this thread, the development across the street from the VA Hospital is proceeding nicely.  I have only seen it from a far and am going to take some time this weekend to get a closer peek.

^^^^Just a bit confused, there is VA project across the street?  I thought that project was on 105th street, correct.

See the "while not related to this thread" comment.  He means the Administration building which is being built accross the street from the actual hospital.  The Admin offices are being moved from Brecksville to UC when construction is finished.

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but Panera will be going into the Uptown Development.

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but Panera will be going into the Uptown Development.

 

Oh joy, now everyone will be able to get their sodium fix under the guise of "healthy food".

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but Panera will be going into the Uptown Development.

 

Whaaaaaaaaaaaat?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?  Just in time for me to leave campus?  GD-it.  (So, for those of you who don't know, Panera is actually from St. Louis - hence why in STL it's called St. Louis Bread Company, or Bread Co. for short.  There is practically one on every street corner there, and I am therefore, forever addicted.  Pathetic, I know.)

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but Panera will be going into the Uptown Development.

 

Do you know of any other storefronts by any chance?

 

Also, where did you get your info about Panera? (feeling nosey today)

Good! I love Panera

Stone Oven > Panera

 

Panera represents the worst of how chain restaurants and advertisement messes with people's minds.  Their food is uber-unhealthy (makes a Big Mac look like health food), yet everyone loves them because they think they're making the healthy choice by eating there.  And that's not to mention how processed and not fresh their food tastes.  Try their Balsamic Vinaigrette dressing and tell me there's even a drop of actual Balsamic Vinegar in that crap.

All I know is Panera.  It was in a press release from the broker who represented Panera in the deal (Panera will also be opening on Rockside Road for anyone interested).

I've only been in a Panera a couple times in my life, but I think they small pretty bad, inside and from the sidewalk.  If the UARD retail strip ends up being a few locally owned high end places and several boring national chain low and midpriced places, I'm going to be pretty unimpressed.  I'm going to wait for some official developer announcements before I get sad though.

I've only been in a Panera a couple times in my life, but I think they small pretty bad, inside and from the sidewalk. If the UARD retail strip ends up being a few locally owned high end places and several boring national chain low and midpriced places, I'm going to be pretty unimpressed. I'm going to wait for some official developer announcements before I get sad though.

In this particular development, I think that the chains will do best.  I would say college students cater moreso toward the chains like Chipoltle and Panera versus locally owned high end places. 

^Agreed... unfortunately.  However, look at it this way; allow the national chains to burn the start up money figuring our what does and does not work in this developement.  Some will hit, some will miss.  At least then the locals will have some market research to work with in determining whether they want to take a shot.