November 22, 20222 yr 25 minutes ago, originaljbw said: Yes, Public Auditorium can seat 10k. Music Hall can seat 3k. Any concert/event too small for RoMoFiHo should go there in place of Wolstein Center. Apples to oranges. Most modern shows can't play Public Hall because it won't allow for the complex rigging needed. Public hall is more of huge theatre than a small arena.
November 22, 20222 yr 19 minutes ago, LibertyBlvd said: By the way, does Woodling Gym still exist? yes. it is adjacent to the recreation center.
November 23, 20222 yr 12 hours ago, Cleburger said: Apples to oranges. Most modern shows can't play Public Hall because it won't allow for the complex rigging needed. Public hall is more of huge theatre than a small arena. Great. Here is a chance to modernize it then.
November 23, 20222 yr 8 hours ago, originaljbw said: Great. Here is a chance to modernize it then. They did some upgrades to modernize it a few years ago. Not sure how much more they can do. It is a 100 year old facility.
November 23, 20222 yr 8 hours ago, originaljbw said: Great. Here is a chance to modernize it then. I'm not sure her old bones would support a 100,000lb + show. They would likely have to construct a sub-grid inside the building, which won't happen in a historic structure (nor should it)
November 23, 20222 yr 1 hour ago, Cleburger said: I'm not sure her old bones would support a 100,000lb + show. They would likely have to construct a sub-grid inside the building, which won't happen in a historic structure (nor should it) As to "nor should it" -- I agree, as long as the facility is still in regular use. If not, we might be seeing a trend leading toward further decay and eventual destruction. In which case I think modernizing while keeping as many historic features as possible should be done ASAP. See Playhouse Square.
November 23, 20222 yr 47 minutes ago, Foraker said: As to "nor should it" -- I agree, as long as the facility is still in regular use. If not, we might be seeing a trend leading toward further decay and eventual destruction. In which case I think modernizing while keeping as many historic features as possible should be done ASAP. See Playhouse Square. I don't disagree, however once again apples to oranges. The theatres of Playhouse Square were designed as such. Public Hall wasn't designed as an arena in the modern sense, and it may be physically impossible to make it so. There are things to be done that could make the entire complex (Public Hall, Music Hall and Little Theatre) more competitive. The first thing I would do is get rid of the City of Cleveland as managers. No matter how many modern amenities are added, the complex will never be fully utilized when it is booked by a city employee sitting at their desk 7 hours a week waiting for the phone to ring. Back to CSU and my opinion that we should keep the Wolstein, and actively market it as a sound stage/rehearsal facility going forward.
November 25, 20222 yr The next CSU: a few insights By Ken Prendergast / November 25, 2022 When Cleveland State University (CSU) formally released its downtown campus master plan to the public last week, a few things were left out. Their exclusion wasn’t because of some devious intent to deceive the public. Rather, it was because CSU officials and those at the Boston-based planning firm Sasaki Associates CSU hired to develop the master plan hadn’t yet made decisions on the omitted elements. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2022/11/25/the-next-csu-a-few-insights/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 25, 20222 yr On 11/18/2022 at 12:31 PM, Luke_S said: The article was pretty clear that the Wolstein Center is currently running a $1M annual deficit and is too big to house events that are better suited for Playhouse Square and too small for events that are a better fit for RoMoFiHo. Seems pretty obvious CSU should right-size the facility so they can improve its utilization and not operate in a deficit. Building a new arena costing well over $100M plus another $10M+ to demolish Wolstein Center doesn't seem like the right solution to eliminating a $1M annual deficit.
November 25, 20222 yr 2 minutes ago, LibertyBlvd said: Building a new arena costing well over $100M plus another $10M+ to demolish Wolstein Center doesn't seem like the right solution to eliminating a $1M annual deficit. It is when most of the construction money isn't coming from your budget. Even if it isn't, $1 million per year used to retire construction bonds rather than fund an operating deficit forever is a more productive use, IMHO. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 25, 20222 yr 2 hours ago, KJP said: The next CSU: a few insights By Ken Prendergast / November 25, 2022 When Cleveland State University (CSU) formally released its downtown campus master plan to the public last week, a few things were left out it. Their exclusion wasn’t because of some devious intent to deceive the public. Rather, it was because CSU officials and those at the Boston-based planning firm Sasaki Associates CSU hired to develop the master plan hadn’t yet made decisions on the omitted elements. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2022/11/25/the-next-csu-a-few-insights/ One thing that's been nagging at me about this new plan is the expanded housing given how Akron U over extended themselves with their new housing development. Was Akron's situation more a problem of timing with the crash of the housing market + broader mismanagement by leadership or is this something to be concerned about?
November 26, 20222 yr 7 hours ago, KJP said: The next CSU: a few insights By Ken Prendergast / November 25, 2022 When Cleveland State University (CSU) formally released its downtown campus master plan to the public last week, a few things were left out it. Their exclusion wasn’t because of some devious intent to deceive the public. Rather, it was because CSU officials and those at the Boston-based planning firm Sasaki Associates CSU hired to develop the master plan hadn’t yet made decisions on the omitted elements. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2022/11/25/the-next-csu-a-few-insights/ That Rhodes Tower image is giving off major NuCleUs vibes.
November 26, 20222 yr Seeing such a visible Tower reclad into a modern 21st century structure would look really amazing on the skyline - especially with The Lumen now extending the verticality of downtown towards the Campus district. If such a plan is feasible - (and I’m sure at great expense) -would there be any possibility of adding a few floors to the tower and providing even more residential space in this new residential center? I would think that’s a pipe dream - but who would’ve ever expected any kind of redo of the Rhodes Tower on the kind of scale @KJPsuggests? The other (probably fantastical) thought I had was - if CSU knows how to do this - maybe they could lend some expertise for the Justice Center. Imagine that baby with this kind of redo. A lot of questions for the future of a very strategic and large district bordering the downtown core. Let’s hope for some exciting developments to come. Edited November 26, 20222 yr by CleveFan
November 28, 20222 yr I like Rhodes how it is, love it or hate it, it's a good example of brutalism and I think it should stick around as is.
November 28, 20222 yr 2 hours ago, GISguy said: I like Rhodes how it is, love it or hate it, it's a good example of brutalism and I think it should stick around as is. Problem is, that pre-cast concrete exterior is falling apart and leaks cold air and moisture. I've been told by people who have been in that tower on a cold windy day that it is very drafty in there to the point of discomfort. If it's going to be a dorm, it's going to have to be re-clad in some form. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 28, 20222 yr 5 minutes ago, GISguy said: I like Rhodes how it is, love it or hate it, it's a good example of brutalism and I think it should stick around as is. IIRC from my time at CSU, RT is packed with asbestos. I wonder if re-cladding it would make it easier to remediate this?
November 28, 20222 yr 2 minutes ago, Cleburger said: IIRC from my time at CSU, RT is packed with asbestos. I wonder if re-cladding it would make it easier to remediate this? It was a major issue a few years back when they were discussing mothballing the top floors. That's a good question though - I'd imagine that concrete is somehow full of it lol
November 30, 20222 yr Good for Cleveland State and the city of Cleveland. As a Central Ohioan, i must say i have never actually been to CSU, but from everything i have seen and read over the last few pages, this seems to be a great plan. I am not one of these posters on here who roots for a certain region of the state...i am pro Ohio...always!! I am a diehard Cleveland sports fan and i root for the city at every chance. A plan like this only helps the city of Cleveland and the university improve. Cleveland is at a major point in its history IMO. With a plan like this for Cleveland State, plus a possible new location for a retractable roof stadium for the Browns, plus a true lakefront plan that could follow that combining where the current stadium is and a possible future Burke Lakefront redevelopment plan...it seems like a perfectly timed proposal of massive implications that could transform the city for the future. I truly hope they all get done! Edited November 30, 20222 yr by OhioFinest
November 30, 20222 yr dear lord yes please remake that hideous rhodes tower — but don’t make it another eyesore for the future. despite the welcome news, that busy blade runneresque render is riding a thin line. 😂
November 30, 20222 yr 3 hours ago, mrnyc said: dear lord yes please remake that hideous Rhodes tower — but don’t make it another eyesore for the future. despite the welcome news, that busy blade runneresque render is riding a thin line. 😂 Agreed. If they can bump out one corner, then bump them all out. Increase the entire usable footprint of this already too-small tower.
November 30, 20222 yr The Cavs G league team, The Charge, moved from Canton to Cleveland last year and playing their home games at Wolstein Center. Does anyone happen to know what size crowds they are drawing? I wonder if these additional events might result in reducing or eliminating Woltein's annual deficit?
December 1, 20222 yr I also wonder if partnering with bedrock my be a good way to finance a new arena.
December 1, 20222 yr 16 hours ago, LibertyBlvd said: The Cavs G league team, The Charge, moved from Canton to Cleveland last year and playing their home games at Wolstein Center. Does anyone happen to know what size crowds they are drawing? I wonder if these additional events might result in reducing or eliminating Woltein's annual deficit? From some googling - snippet from a Crains Article: The Charge finished in the top 10 in G League attendance, averaging 2,066 fans over 17 home dates.
December 1, 20222 yr 17 hours ago, LibertyBlvd said: The Cavs G league team, The Charge, moved from Canton to Cleveland last year and playing their home games at Wolstein Center. Does anyone happen to know what size crowds they are drawing? I wonder if these additional events might result in reducing or eliminating Woltein's annual deficit? The Charge moved last year so it would have been accounted for in their 2021 analysis. Presumably they would have done a future cashflow analysis anyway and things like league play would be fairly easy to forecast with a predictable schedule and ticket prices.
December 1, 20222 yr 35 minutes ago, GISguy said: From some googling - snippet from a Crains Article: The Charge finished in the top 10 in G League attendance, averaging 2,066 fans over 17 home dates. I had the same thought when I first heard about the CSU plan, so I checked into the attendance figures. Its still early in the season, so its hard to extrapolate. On a tuesday in early November, the attendance was @1,800. On a Friday in mid November, the total attendance was @4,000.
December 2, 20222 yr terry stealing my angle https://www.ideastream.org/news/why-demolishing-the-wolstein-center-is-a-good-move-for-csu-and-cleveland
December 6, 20222 yr On 11/28/2022 at 11:25 AM, GISguy said: I like Rhodes how it is, love it or hate it, it's a good example of brutalism and I think it should stick around as is. I get your point, but I think if you’re attempting to attract Gen Z students who desire getting their education in a bustling urban environment, a sleek modernized tower is a more appealing place to live than a tower that screams Eastern Europe in 1980.
December 6, 20222 yr 1 hour ago, Sapper Daddy said: I get your point, but I think if you’re attempting to attract Gen Z students who desire getting their education in a bustling urban environment, a sleek modernized tower is a more appealing place to live than a tower that screams Eastern Europe in 1980. I hear ya. Not saying they're the most gorgeous buildings (brutalism) but there'll come a time when people will regret tearing them all down. They're also terribly energy inefficient and mostly falling apart but between this and the JC, it seems like this one would have a better chance of standing. FWIW, an image of the Schofield with it's cladding came out a while back and a bunch of Gen Z commenters preferred the 70's clad over the restored version. Kind of took me aback.
December 7, 20222 yr I’m more than partial to Brutalism, witness my avatar (London’s South Bank if you didn’t know). Like any other style, there’s good examples and bad examples. Justice Center kinda straddles the line, I think it’s a fine looking building up close, but starts to look worse and worse the more you cross the street and move away from it. the Rhodes Tower looks great up close and even better from a distance. My hovercraft is full of eels
December 17, 20222 yr Brownfield grants reveal progress on many projects By Ken Prendergast / December 17, 2022 Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine announced $88 million in state support for 123 brownfield remediation projects that will help clean up hazardous and underutilized sites throughout the state. The Ohio Department of Development is funding the awards through the Ohio Brownfield Remediation Program, which is designed to clean up and prepare hazardous brownfield sites for redevelopment. The projects announced today will impact communities in 35 counties across the state. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2022/12/17/brownfield-grants-reveal-progress-on-many-projects/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 29, 20222 yr On 12/1/2022 at 10:17 AM, 3231 said: I had the same thought when I first heard about the CSU plan, so I checked into the attendance figures. Its still early in the season, so its hard to extrapolate. On a tuesday in early November, the attendance was @1,800. On a Friday in mid November, the total attendance was @4,000. Record crowd of 4,600 at Wolstein Center for Charge game last night.
December 29, 20222 yr On 11/28/2022 at 11:31 AM, KJP said: Problem is, that pre-cast concrete exterior is falling apart and leaks cold air and moisture. I've been told by people who have been in that tower on a cold windy day that it is very drafty in there to the point of discomfort. If it's going to be a dorm, it's going to have to be re-clad in some form. Maybe a solution like what was done for the Anthony J Celebrezze Federal Building would work here. They addressed many of the problems with the leak-riddled metal "skin" of the building and replaced the windows. Then they built a frame on the outside of the original structure. The building was encased with glass. Drafts and leaks were corrected and the building's appearance was greatly improved. The Federal Building had a lot of asbestos as well and it is being dealt with.
December 29, 20222 yr Yeah but the only problem was they left two of the four sides unfinished. It looks like a half finished job.
December 30, 20222 yr 21 hours ago, LifeLongClevelander said: Maybe a solution like what was done for the Anthony J Celebrezze Federal Building would work here. They addressed many of the problems with the leak-riddled metal "skin" of the building and replaced the windows. Then they built a frame on the outside of the original structure. The building was encased with glass. Drafts and leaks were corrected and the building's appearance was greatly improved. The Federal Building had a lot of asbestos as well and it is being dealt with. I agree with most of this and it was certainly a necessary project, but it does NOT look “greatly improved”. The updated building looks fine and it is ok, but the original design was aesthetically much superior. When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?
December 30, 20222 yr ^Agreed. It looked better before. It looks kind of clunky now. So are there two layers of windows/glass now - original + new frame? Edited December 30, 20222 yr by LibertyBlvd
December 30, 20222 yr 2 hours ago, LibertyBlvd said: ^Agreed. It looked better before. It looks kind of clunky now. So are there two layers of windows/glass now - original + new frame? Yes. It was really an interesting project. They mounted brackets on the exterior and used that to support an entire second facade of glass. This dramatically improves efficiency. Plus, they could do the entire project without moving staff out of the building, so they saved substantial amounts of rent and avoided the disruption of multiple temporary moves. If you’re curious, it’s worth looking up the articles about the project. It’s just too bad that it doesn’t look quite as nice. When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?
December 30, 20222 yr I agree that it is more clunky looking now than before, even if it was a smart retrofitting or solution to solving the problem.
December 30, 20222 yr On 12/29/2022 at 6:04 PM, cadmen said: Yeah but the only problem was they left two of the four sides unfinished. It looks like a half finished job. Actually, they did do all 4 sides, but 2 were one style and 2 were another. For example, there is enough space for workers to stand between the inner and outer windows. On the east and north sides, the "cavity" is only major post to major post. On the west and south sides, the cavity has the same depth, but workers can travel from one corner to another. Have no idea why two distinct styles were used. In that way the inconsistency is baffling. It is a matter of preference, but I do like it better than the old sheathing. The air gap provides far more insulation than the old exterior.
December 31, 20222 yr The unfinished part is the section that covers the silver band along the top of the building. The southern and western side have a second skin while the northern and eastern side were not covered leaving it looking unfinished. After some speculation on this forum somebody posted it was planned that way. Something about weatherization if l remember. Still looks unfinished to me.
January 4, 20232 yr Don't get me started on that project... I know this is the CSU thread but PLEASE do not ask for a second Federal Building 🤣 That is the worst recladding I have ever seen and of course its such a prominent building in our skyline depending on where you are... I still can't believe that its actually finished... and that this was how the original project was designed!! Now we have a building that looks permanently "half-done". I truly hate how it looks and we are stuck with it. However, I have seen other re-skinning / recladding projects that came out great. Let's hope Rhodes Tower is one of those if this goes forward.
January 31, 20232 yr I don’t have too high of hopes for a significant Rhodes remodel, especially anytime soon, when CSU just included the current iteration in its new logo? https://www.clevescene.com/news/cleveland-state-university-unveils-new-fine-logo-penn-state-esque-branding-41249539
January 31, 20232 yr 2 hours ago, HGRHS said: I don’t have too high of hopes for a significant Rhodes remodel, especially anytime soon, when CSU just included the current iteration in its new logo? https://www.clevescene.com/news/cleveland-state-university-unveils-new-fine-logo-penn-state-esque-branding-41249539 I know it's been discussed on here before... but has there ever been discussion on changing the university's name as part of the ongoing changes? I don't have much place to speak since I'm not an alum, but I think something like the University of Cleveland would be nice.
June 19, 20231 yr Some soil sampling at the old Cadillac building site. I forgot what was planned for here.
June 19, 20231 yr So is this a part of CSU. I thought the Cadillac site was on the other side of the innerbelt.
June 19, 20231 yr 13 minutes ago, simplythis said: So is this a part of CSU. I thought the Cadillac site was on the other side of the innerbelt. I may have got the name wrong. Wolfe Music building maybe?
June 19, 20231 yr 6 minutes ago, marty15 said: I may have got the name wrong. Wolfe Music building maybe? May have been the site of both.
June 19, 20231 yr The old Corlett/Cleveland Cadillac Building, not to be confused with Central Cadillac on Carnegie. http://clevelandhistorical.org/index.php/files/show/10019
June 19, 20231 yr 31 minutes ago, marty15 said: I may have got the name wrong. Wolfe Music building maybe? Wolfe Building was on the other side of euclid where the health science building is now.
June 19, 20231 yr CSU is moving forward on multiple projects simultaneously. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
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