3 hours ago, marty15 said:

Some soil sampling at the old Cadillac building site. I forgot what was planned for here.

 

Based on the 2022 master plan, it's hopefully the "Future Academic" buildings.

Is there any current development going on as we speak at the CSU Campus right now.

The geotech drilling is for the academic building proposed below-right of the word "Euclid" in this rendering...

 

42 minutes ago, KJP said:

The geotech drilling is for the academic building proposed below-right of the word "Euclid" in this rendering...

 

So this is just west of the Keith Building somewhere abouts the Marshall Law School or whatever it is called today.

correction: just east

13 minutes ago, simplythis said:

So this is just west of the Keith Building somewhere abouts the Marshall Law School or whatever it is called today.

Here’s the location. We’ll be able to check off another void on Euclid.

Any idea what program/college etc is going to be in this building?

Seemingly the College of Arts and Sciences, per slide 17:
https://firebasestorage.googleapis.com/v0/b/cleveland-state-henshu.appspot.com/o/2022-11-17_Board Presentation_v2.pdf?alt=media&token=196cc0e7-eea0-4403-a197-b5bcf2e3e6c4

14 hours ago, KJP said:

The geotech drilling is for the academic building proposed below-right of the word "Euclid" in this rendering...

 

 

looks amazingly similar to the building they tore down for a lawn and a parking lot hah

 

And I get it, CSU is in a very different place vs 10-15 years ago (and having an abandoned building in the middle of campus isn't a good look), but still...

First time looking at this completely since it was published. Overall, not a bad update to the old Master Plan. I understand the desire (and preference for some people) to close some of the Euclid Avenue gaps, but I hope they don't go back to the old closed-campus way of maintaining greenspace. 

Interesting that they outline the Campus International High School on Chester but except for the dotted outline, nothing else is said.

 

 

And (unrelated for the most part), wtf is the old juvi being labeled as "Fort Cleveland" ?!? 

 

 

 

What strikes me about the masterplan is that it feels like a typical American city at a small scale.  There's the central business district that in this case is the "academic core", with residential at the periphery.  Building height and density also increases at the center.  I realize CSU is working with a campus that was planned and built 50-60 years ago, so it is what it is.  It also strikes me that they also seem to be trying to counteract that a bit by turning Rhodes into residential, and that mixed use building shown just west of Rhodes.  That also seems to reflect American cities today in that they are striving for more integrated cities/land use.  I could also be overthinking all of this!

 

Seeds & Sprouts XXIX – CSU to start arena plans, Downtown garage demo, Olde Cedar’s replacement

By Ken Prendergast / June 21, 2023

 

Cleveland State University is about to start work on plans for a new arena, a downtown parking garage will be demolished -- for a parking lot, and one of the oldest public housing projects in the USA along with the old juvenile justice center will be demolished for a mixed-income housing complex.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2023/06/21/seeds-sprouts-xxix-csu-to-start-arena-plans-downtown-garage-demo-olde-cedars-replacement/

The Verizon building did for views from the Brooklyn Bridge in NYC what Rhodes Tower does for that bit of Cleveland town. About 10 years ago they turned a lot of it into glass. Still not the most remarkable bit of architecture but a huge visual improvement. Anyway, it'd be neat-o for them to do something like this. Apologies to the 50 other people on this forum who have made this observation and posted about this exact thing already

"Olde Cedar, also called Cedar Estates..."   and apparently also called Fort Cleveland.

Fun fact, there are rehearsal rooms under those pyramids. I played in pep band in '17, we practiced under the pyramids and the acoustics were amazing.

On 6/21/2023 at 4:14 PM, Nickel Plate RR said:

Anyway, it'd be neat-o for them to do something like this.

That's what they said about the Schofield Building in the 1960's.  I'm not knocking renovations like this- I often love them- but Rhodes is a very well preserved example of Brutalist architecture.  It's not my favorite style, but it is iconic, and it is kind of a "classic" at this point.  I would vote for not altering the facade.

14 minutes ago, Dino said:

That's what they said about the Schofield Building in the 1960's.  I'm not knocking renovations like this- I often love them- but Rhodes is a very well preserved example of Brutalist architecture.  It's not my favorite style, but it is iconic, and it is kind of a "classic" at this point.  I would vote for not altering the facade.

 

 

The engineering reports show that the precast concrete panels on Rhodes Tower are letting in moisture and wind and causing the building to age faster than normal. They have to be replaced and it doesn't make sense to replace them with the same type of material that caused the problem in the first place. Unless there's a better way of sealing the seams between the concrete panels, a new exterior is needed.

4 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

The engineering reports show that the precast concrete panels on Rhodes Tower are letting in moisture and wind and causing the building to age faster than normal. They have to be replaced and it doesn't make sense to replace them with the same type of material that caused the problem in the first place. Unless there's a better way of sealing the seams between the concrete panels, a new exterior is needed.

I'm not in construction, but I would bet those are pretty easy to duplicate with more modern and energy efficient materials, without altering the look. 

 

the building does look nicer up close than afar

On 6/21/2023 at 4:14 PM, Nickel Plate RR said:

The Verizon building did for views from the Brooklyn Bridge in NYC what Rhodes Tower does for that bit of Cleveland town.

 

Even better comparison with Terminal Tower’s twin making a cameo in the background

9 hours ago, Whipjacka said:

the building does look nicer up close than afar

That’s true of a lot of brutalist architecture. I’ve often said the same about the Justice Center

CSU buys Middough Bldg  https://www.bizjournals.com/cleveland/news/2023/07/10/csu-buys-play-house-square-building.html

The Middough Building?  Is that what used to be the Navy's Bureau of Supplies and Accounts?  

Thanks for the heads-up @Whipjacka!

 

 

New CSU arena in play by year’s end
By Ken Prendergast / July 25, 2023

 

By the end of this year, Cleveland State University (CSU) officials and their project consultants said they hope to select a development team, financing plan and a proposal for a new multi-purpose, indoor arena on Payne Avenue just east of downtown Cleveland. The arena would serve the athletic and academic needs of CSU as well as the entertainment needs of Greater Cleveland. And depending on the responses from prospective teams, the winning proposal could also include details about developing a neighboring mixed-use district.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2023/07/25/new-csu-arena-in-play-by-years-end/

Wow, they are moving fast on this.

Is this level of interest from parties near and far unusual for a development of this type in Clebveland? I'm used to having to practically bribe out of town developers let alone local firms to bid on a project like this. Either I'm misundestanding what is going on or things are really looking good not just for local real estate development but the local economy in general. 

 

Are we the next Nashville or Austin lol

 

CSU narrows finalists to develop Arena
By Ken Prendergast / November 17, 2023

 

Four finalists were invited by Cleveland State University (CSU) and its development arm Euclid Avenue Development Corp. (EADC) to submit proposals to build, at minimum, a new multi-purpose arena for the university. In addition, their proposals could also include a parking garage and mixed-use district of housing and shops that were proposed as part of its $650 million campus master plan unveiled last year. The arena, parking deck and mixed-use district were all proposed to rise along Payne Avenue, just west of Interstate 90 in downtown Cleveland.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2023/11/17/csu-narrows-finalists-to-develop-arena/

I think Dan Gilbert’s company probably makes the most sense as they probably use it more with the 50 game/season g league team 

On 11/17/2023 at 6:24 PM, BoomerangCleRes said:

I think Dan Gilbert’s company probably makes the most sense as they probably use it more with the 50 game/season g league team 

 

Yea, I think they plan to have the Charge play their home games there if/when this is built and I think it makes sense.

I think the arena should be a little larger, maybe around 7,000. That way, it would be capable of attracting events requiring something larger than one of the Playhouse Square theaters but not as large as RMFH.

 

Hopefully the Vikings can regain the prominence they achieved during the Mackey era and start attracting some big name competition, and larger crowds.

 

Not sure if the Crunch (indoor soccer team) has any interest in returning downtown. They used to play at Wolstein Center many years ago and I believe they were attracting some decent crowds.

 

By the way, where is the money coming from to fund the master plan?

 

Edited November 19, 20231 yr by LibertyBlvd

I was also surprised at the 5000 number.  Why bother?

If done right, they would build in amenities that would make it suitable as a sound stage for film production, tour rehearsals etc.   Things like extra power drops around the venue, a full rigging grid throughout the house, and extra sound proofing.   These kinds of "non-events" have a great economic impact for a city as well. 

let's keep in mind that this is primarily an auditorium and basketball court for a school.  it should first be sized to fit the school's needs and other uses are secondary to that mission.

Edited November 19, 20231 yr by Whipjacka

But it would be wise to size it for events outside of the basketball season. And hopefully a resurgence of the men's basketball program.  If they are content with the Vikings playing in front of 1,500 fans, they might as well go back to Woodling Gym.

1 hour ago, Whipjacka said:

let's keep in mind that this is primarily an auditorium and basketball court for a school.  it should first be sized to fit the school's needs and other uses are secondary to that mission.

I disagree.  If public funds are involved, then it should benefit the entire public, not just the school or university.   This is a chance for the University to recoup some of the investment and help the arena subsidize itself.  

it depends on the detail of these proposals and who runs the risk of a money-losing venue. we don't want a cash-poor school that is currently cutting budgets to overbuild and be on the hook for huge operating costs. that is one of the problems with the wolstei. center.

 

also, kent state is the dream scenario for CSU and they don't have a huge building. 

Edited November 19, 20231 yr by Whipjacka

40 minutes ago, Cleburger said:

I disagree.  If public funds are involved, then it should benefit the entire public, not just the school or university.   This is a chance for the University to recoup some of the investment and help the arena subsidize itself.  

Public universities are the benefit

let's keep in mind that this is primarily an auditorium and basketball court for a school.  it should first be sized to fit the school's needs and other uses are secondary to that mission.

With this mentality this will turn into the indoor version of Browns stadium. Used minimally and wasting public dollars. The Current wolstein center, while flawed serves as an adequate/good alternative for events that may not be popular enough for RMFH or don't want to pay the tab. I've been to a number of comedy shows and concerts this past year that have hit that sweet spot of 7-10,000 people, so big enough for Wolstein but wouldn't make financial sense for RMFH.

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Here's some food for thought: Gonzaga University's arena (built in 2004) seats 6,000 for basketball. That program is one of the top basketball programs in the country. Just think of the home court advantage CSU could have for themselves if they can get their program to the point to where they can sell out, or nearly sell out, every game in a 5,000 seat arena. 

Edited November 20, 20231 yr by landofcleve

6 hours ago, landofcleve said:

Here's some food for thought: Gonzaga University's arena (built in 2004) seats 6,000 for basketball. That program is one of the top basketball programs in the country. Just think of the home court advantage CSU could have for themselves if they can get their program to the point to where they can sell out, or nearly sell out, every game in a 5,000 seat arena. 

Duke’s arena is only 9000. And that’s the pinnacle team of college basketball. 5-6000k would be just right imo.

Here is a list of the largest attendance for Vikings basketball at Wolstein Center (from Wikipedia):

 

And in the 1980s, prior to Wolstein Center, the Vikings played some games vs prominent opponents at Public Auditorium and drew over 7,000 on a few occasions.

 

The Cleveland Crunch indoor soccer team played at Wolstein Center from 1990-2005 and I believe their games were well attended.

 

There are other non-sporting events held at Wolstein throughout the year, but I am not aware of any stats on attendance for those events.

 

 

Edited November 22, 20231 yr by LibertyBlvd

5 hours ago, LibertyBlvd said:

Here is a list of the largest attendance for Vikings basketball at Wolstein Center (from Wikipedia):

 

And in the 80s, prior to Wolstein Center, the Vikings played some games at Public Auditorium and drew over 7,000 on a few occasions.

 

So even for their biggest games in history, they couldn’t sell out the Wolstein Center?  I don’t think you want to size your arena for your absolute max expected crowd.  I’d ideally want to have a few sellouts a year if the team is good.  Those games would produce an incredible atmosphere and make the program better.

 

Teams in the Horizon League generally average 2,000-3,000 fans for basketball, and the Cleveland Charge are also around 3,000 I think.  A 5,000 seat arena sounds pretty well-sized for those expectations, and between the Charge, MBB, and WBB, that’s about 55 dates/year.

 

If CSU is exceptionally good, they can always play some games at RMFH (maybe with the upper deck curtained off).  Several teams have on-campus arenas, and bigger off-campus arenas for big games (St. John’s, UConn, etc).

Edited November 21, 20231 yr by acd

But keep in mind there are other events held at Wolstein besides basketball - concerts, Cirque du Solei, etc.   

I believe those teams that played under Kevin Macky would have put butts is seats at the Wolstein Center.  It was unfortunate that they built that arena because the team was a draw back then and Mackey's personal issues deraied the momentum.  Mike Boyd could never recruit the type of players that Macky would get.  Walters had a nice run with Damon Stringer.  Macky's teams were a cut above all the other teams.  

23 minutes ago, LibertyBlvd said:

But keep in mind there are other events held at Wolstein besides basketball - concerts, Cirque du Solei, etc.   

 

 

I mentioned the number of basketball games because I think that’ll be the vast majority of events held at the arena, so I think it should be designed with that in mind.  I think the majority of other events it might host would also fit well in a 5,000-seat building.

some food-for-thought regarding arena size

Edited January 10, 20241 yr by Whipjacka

some food-for-thought regarding arena size

I'm fine with a 7,500 seat venue it meets in the middle. I don't want to go too small and scare away uses like concerts, wrestling shows, etc. that may need a large(ish) arena but Rocket Mortgage Fieldhouse is too expensive.

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10 hours ago, MyPhoneDead said:

I'm fine with a 7,500 seat venue it meets in the middle. I don't want to go too small and scare away uses like concerts, wrestling shows, etc. that may need a large(ish) arena but Rocket Mortgage Fieldhouse is too expensive.

That would be ideal.  It would put them in a good spot size-wise - larger than the Playhouse Square theaters but smaller than RMFH.  Also need to keep in mind RMFH is a busy place with Cavs, Monsters, ice shows, concerts, etc., so it may not be available for events that require a date in a specific timeframe.  And if the Vikings can regain the prominence they achieved during the Mackey era, they could start drawing much larger crowds.

6500-7500 would be perfect for a school the size of CSU. While they’re at, include a few hundred student bed dorm into it, like the Convo at Ohio University. Constant revenue. Oh wait, hey @Browns……