2 hours ago, GISguy said:

 

He went on to say that the building is not going to fall down, but students can’t live there. Costs could clock in at a “range of many millions” depending on if the university would want to minimally repair it or do a major overhaul. The university currently owes about $17 million against the property. 

 

 

Edit: Shoot, meant to next this under my signal comment, but this is from the article.

Might as well follow the trend and sell it to a developer that can potentially turn it into student apartments on one half and luxury apartments on the top half. 

9 hours ago, Htsguy said:

Fenn has been a dorm for years.  At one time I believe it was the only building housing students on campus.

I taught there in the early 1980’s- it was dorms then

10 hours ago, Htsguy said:

Fenn has been a dorm for years.  At one time I believe it was the only building housing students on campus.

Yes i lived there for 2 years while in the college there from 1976-1978

I moved into Fenn Tower in the 2009/2010 year.  It was fairly new (dorm interiors) with some pretty nice updates, including some of the ground floor space/amenities.  I am really surprised this seems to be the current case.

Edited August 1, 2024Aug 1 by MissinOhio

3 hours ago, MissinOhio said:

I moved into Fenn Tower in the 2009/2010 year.  It was fairly new (dorm interiors) with some pretty nice updates, including some of the ground floor space/amenities.  I am really surprised this seems to be the current case.

I toured it when I was looking at college's to attend back in 2011 and at that time I thought it was very well maintained so I too am shocked.

Cannot read the article since I don't subscribe, but a Crain's headline is reflecting that CSU's plans to replace the Wolstein Center are off.  No great surprise given the current financial situation but bummed as the development would have been a great shot in the arm to the area around Payne and the Interbelt and would have continued the momentum of development on Superior.

Edited August 15, 2024Aug 15 by Htsguy

I did not realize what a mess CSU is in. The fact that they are even suggesting demolition for Fenn Tower is insanity:

 

"The university is exploring a range of options with Fenn, Tompkins said, from completely demolishing the building to spending tens of millions on structural enhancement to trying to find a third-party developer that might be interested in renovating the structure."

 

"But even if CSU solved all its facility issues — a huge hypothetical, considering it has about $350 million in deferred maintenance on its buildings, according to Signal Cleveland — the arena project would still be in limbo because CSU’s athletic future is still in limbo."

2 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

Cannot read the article since I don't subscribe, but a Crain's headline is reflecting that CSU's plans to replace the Wolstein Center are off.  No great surprise given the current financial situation but bummed as the development would have been a great shot in the arm to the area around Payne and the Interbelt and would have continued the momentum of development on Superior.

I just read it. Essentially that $40 million gap is making them rethink what they are going to do moving forward. With Rhodes & Fenn Tower needing attention and $350 million in deferred maintenance (that number shocked me), they said that takes priority over Woilsten

The deferred maintenance number can be deceptive.  You need to know how much of it is on buildings they planned to repurpose or demolish. The article is not enlightening on that subject.

I imagine when they are doing the math they also have to take into account that the great student enrolled decline is going to hit in 2-3 years arising out of large decrease in births due to the 2008 recession.

Edited August 15, 2024Aug 15 by Htsguy

This a not an unexpected let-down. I have this little fantasy where CSU becomes our version of the University of Pittsburgh. We grow a respected university with, say, 35,000 students and the usual classrooms/dorms and campus life.

 

This happens every time we get these CSU plans that look to expand its footprint only to see them fall flat because doing so in a time of limited resources (including a shrinking tradional 18-22 year old cohort) makes it impossible. It's especially frustrating because every American city worth its salt has a viable and large public university. If you don't have one it's like a gap toothed smile. You may not notice it so much when it's there but you sure notice it when it's not.

AS announced earlier today new arena shelved. Another Master plan cancelled or on hold.  https://www.crainscleveland.com/sports-recreation/cleveland-state-wont-pursue-wolstein-center-replacement

I'm surprised they don't try to sell the land and find other accommodations for basketball. the men's and women's teams practice and play there, but i dont ~think other programs use the wolstein.

 

As a season ticket holder who goes to the games, I get the impression most of their fans buy tickets to be a booster to the program. I don't think they'd lose anyone if they played in the woodling or even the civic auditorium like the charge. 

4 hours ago, Htsguy said:

I imagine when they are doing the math they also have to take into account that the great student enrolled decline is going to hit in 2-3 years arising out of large decrease in births due to the 2008 recession.

 

Maybe they need to start drawing from China and India like CWRU is doing.

9 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

Maybe they need to start drawing from China and India like CWRU is doing.

 

Case was doing that when I was there more years ago than I like to admit, it's nothing new for them.  

They should find a way and sell the Wolstein Center to Bedrock. I am sure that Bedrock could find alternate

ways to keep the Wolstein center viable. Then use the proceeds from the sale ( hopefully there is enough proceeds ) 

and build your 5-7k seat arena.

I think Bedrock has enough on its plate

26 minutes ago, KJP said:

Maybe they need to start drawing from China and India like CWRU is doing.

They are.

3 hours ago, cadmen said:

This a not an unexpected let-down. I have this little fantasy where CSU becomes our version of the University of Pittsburgh. We grow a respected university with, say, 35,000 students and the usual classrooms/dorms and campus life.

 

Not that long ago CSU had that fantasy too, and planned to grow to 20,000 students.  But CSU should probably be designed for 12,000 students.  The budget shortfall is huge (as is CSU's competition with UAkron and KSU for limited funding from the state)

 

 

13 minutes ago, Foraker said:

They are.

 

I think there is a very large percent of Indian students. 

lol I see kids playing cricket on the green every day

1 hour ago, Htsguy said:

I think Bedrock has enough on its plate

 

Bedrock was one of the applicants to build and operate the new arena.

Cross-posted with news of a funding award 

 

 

1 hour ago, KJP said:

Cross-posted with news of a funding award 

 

 

That is good news to start the Rhodes tower transformation.  Hopefully the State will find the funds to complete the conversion of the campus iconic structure into housing.  Would be even nicer if would look as imagined in the older KJP story:

Gonna respectfully disagree on that one, I know there's weatherproofing and sealing that would come with a cladding but it's a unique brutalist building, if/when the justice center comes down this'll be *one of* our only massive example left.

Edited December 5, 2024Dec 5 by GISguy
Updated to reflect the 9

5 minutes ago, GISguy said:

Gonna respectfully disagree on that one, I know there's weatherproofing and sealing that would come with a cladding but it's a unique brutalist building, if/when the justice center comes down this'll be our only massive example left.

The 9 is our most prominent brutalist building in the city. 

16 minutes ago, GISguy said:

Gonna respectfully disagree on that one, I know there's weatherproofing and sealing that would come with a cladding but it's a unique brutalist building, if/when the justice center comes down this'll be our only massive example left.

 

13 minutes ago, MyPhoneDead said:

The 9 is our most prominent brutalist building in the city. 

 

I'm not a fan of brutalism (though my mom taking me downtown to watch the Kellys build the 9 makes it an exception) but I'm less of a fan of jenga towers.    Rhodes is fine as it is.

2 minutes ago, MyPhoneDead said:

The 9 is our most prominent brutalist building in the city. 

 

lol totally forgot about the 9 and it's literally right next to my building. Either way, I feel like they're two distinct styles of brutalism - Rhodes/JC having the brutalist platform, the 9 just kind of fitting into existing fabric. In my opinion, Rhodes looks cool in its current form, I don't want it to be another generic glass cladded structure. I doubt critics in the future will be as outraged w/this cladding vs the Schofield, but it seems worth preserving. 

13 hours ago, Willo said:

That is good news to start the Rhodes tower transformation.  Hopefully the State will find the funds to complete the conversion of the campus iconic structure into housing.  Would be even nicer if would look as imagined in the older KJP story:

I'll give my hot take.

 

Not huge on this particular rendering tbh. But count me in for recladding Rhodes. I'd rather see a more intentional rejection of brutalism in how it is reclad though. Add detail and aesthetic elements designed to draw the eye. Some art deco elements would be a really cool addition for instance. Carve, add framing elements, I have no idea what's possible, but I'd love to see creative reinterpretations.

 

While on principal I like the idea of preserving architecture as close to its original design as possible. I think the main purpose of historic preservation is to preserve beauty. I would describe Brutalism as basically a rejection of the idea that buildings should be beautiful (at least in the traditional sense) and this isn't even a particularly good example of the style. Let's keep the nine as our downtown brutalist building. It's architecturally interesting and fits with the surrounding architecture well enough. Rhodes can be restyled. 

2 minutes ago, Ethan said:

I'll give my hot take.

 

Not huge on this particular rendering tbh. But count me in for recladding Rhodes. I'd rather see a more intentional rejection of brutalism in how it is reclad though. Add detail and aesthetic elements designed to draw the eye. Some art deco elements would be a really cool addition for instance. Carve, add framing elements, I have no idea what's possible, but I'd love to see creative reinterpretations.

 

While on principal I like the idea of preserving architecture as close to its original design as possible. I think the main purpose of historic preservation is to preserve beauty. I would describe Brutalism as basically a rejection of the idea that buildings should be beautiful (at least in the traditional sense) and this isn't even a particularly good example of the style. Let's keep the nine as our downtown brutalist building. It's architecturally interesting and fits with the surrounding architecture well enough. Rhodes can be restyled. 

Agree. While the outside of the building would be fine for a coffee table art book on Brutalism, the inside was never pleasant and actually eerily similar to the inside of the county jail. Merits of brutalism aside, we are under the impression that the exterior precast concrete needs replaced anyway and the building has experienced severe water damage. I believe past reports such as by KJP boiled it down to demolishing it or recladding it with a new material or covering the existing building in glass (as the Federal Celebrezze building did). For those who love the Brutalist architecture (though is not the best example) preserving it by enclosing it in glass would allow them to enjoy it for eternity- just like the Vladimir Lenin Mausoleum.

It's as though Original NuCLEus and The Beacon married and produced offspring.  I kinda like it.

Academic architecture should strive for timeless grandeur rather than what the latest trend is. This design will have the same effect as the original, brutalist style.

Rhodes Tower got historic tax credits 

 

 

I hope CSU can win some for Fenn Tower in the near future as well.   It's a gem definitely worth saving!  

5m Tax credit https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/housing-at-rhodes-tower-and-a-hotel-at-the-rose-building-projects-win-state-tax-credits

Did I miss something here?   Isn't Rhodes Tower owned by Cleveland State, a public university?  How does such an entity, which I guess pays no taxes, get a tax credit?

52 minutes ago, Quilliam said:

Did I miss something here?   Isn't Rhodes Tower owned by Cleveland State, a public university?  How does such an entity, which I guess pays no taxes, get a tax credit?

 

That's an excellent question, unless its CSU plans to transfer the deed on the property to its development arm, Euclid Avenue Development Corp.

Crain"s Story. https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/cleveland-akron-awarded-millions-historic-tax-credits

26 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

That's an excellent question, unless its CSU plans to transfer the deed on the property to its development arm, Euclid Avenue Development Corp.

Bullseye - who knew...they did in May:

https://clevelandstater.com/news/news/csu-transfers-ownership-rhodes-tower-signal-reports#:~:text=CSU transfers ownership of Rhodes,amenities and collaborative study spaces.

 

Thanks for the info, but I still don't get it.  The Cleveland Stater story says that EADC is a non-profit.  Who is getting the tax credit?

58 minutes ago, Quilliam said:

Thanks for the info, but I still don't get it.  The Cleveland Stater story says that EADC is a non-profit.  Who is getting the tax credit?

CSU to qualify via its new the landlord (EADC)? 

"...the money for Rhodes Tower would not come from the university’s operating budget. He said officials recently made moves to allow it to chase tax incentives and grants to help pay for it.  Cleveland State recently transferred ownership of Rhodes Tower to Euclid Avenue Development Corporation. That’s the university’s real estate arm. The corporation, commonly referred to by its acronym, EADC, is now technically the university’s landlord. This, in part, allows the university to be eligible for historic tax credits and other funding...EADC would finance the renovations and use revenue generated by the building to pay off the debt. "

 

https://signalcleveland.org/cleveland-state-eyes-major-overhaul-of-iconic-rhodes-tower/

 

So they figured out a mechanism for a state university to get more state money. Okay. Whatever works. I’m happy the tower will be renovated. 

CSU to remain a Division 1 program. https://www.crainscleveland.com/sports-recreation/cleveland-state-athletic-director-affirms-vikings-division-i-status

15 minutes ago, simplythis said:

CSU to remain a Division 1 program. https://www.crainscleveland.com/sports-recreation/cleveland-state-athletic-director-affirms-vikings-division-i-status

This is from an earlier in the year post. https://www.crainscleveland.com/sports-recreation/cleveland-state-wont-pursue-wolstein-center-replacement

On 12/11/2024 at 6:27 PM, Quilliam said:

Thanks for the info, but I still don't get it.  The Cleveland Stater story says that EADC is a non-profit.  Who is getting the tax credit?

 

The non-profit does not utilize the tax credits. They sell them off for cash.

20 hours ago, simplythis said:

This is from an earlier in the year post. https://www.crainscleveland.com/sports-recreation/cleveland-state-wont-pursue-wolstein-center-replacement

I was talking with my buddy about this, I think now that it's renovated they will end up using Public Hall. It's a win win for everyone if you think about it. It's the perfect size for CSU games. 

6 minutes ago, KFM44107 said:

I was talking with my buddy about this, I think now that it's renovated they will end up using Public Hall. It's a win win for everyone if you think about it. It's the perfect size for CSU games. 

 

Hell, back when CSU made the sweet 16 (1986?) they played in a gym smaller than my high school's.

^ Did they play some of their games at Public Hall that season?

 

Edited December 17, 2024Dec 17 by LibertyBlvd

21 minutes ago, LibertyBlvd said:

^ Did they play some of their games at Public Hall that season?

 

 

Seems that way.  They played there occasionally from 1981 to 1989.

 

The vast majority were played in Woodling which only seated 3,000.

 Apparently they were able to squeeze in a few more than 3,000.

 

From Wikipedia:

 

57 minutes ago, NorthShore647 said:

CSU Board of Trustees Approves Recommendations to Reduce Athletics Budget

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio (Jan. 23, 2025) — Cleveland State University (CSU) has announced it will discontinue its three NCAA sport programs in wrestling, women’s golf and softball, following the approval of the CSU Board of Trustees at their meeting on January 23, 2025. CSU made the difficult decision to discontinue these sport programs at the conclusion of their respective seasons this academic year as part of a strategic effort, which began in 2023, to address budgetary shortfalls across the University. In addition to the discontinued programs, the CSU Board of Trustees approved relocating the University’s Esports program from CSU Athletics to CSU’s Washkewicz College of Engineering. ... Cleveland State has no plans to discontinue any of its remaining 15 athletic programs. CSU is an active, engaged member of the Horizon League athletic conference and is committed to participating in Division I Athletics.

 

With the loss of the wrestling program, Woodling gymnasium is now down to only Volleyball and Fencing as primary tenants. This would slightly open up the facilities schedule for a theoretical move of some additional basketball games from Wolstein (the men's team have played 4, and women's team 1 game this season at Woodling). I do think the wrestling team had their own room at Woodling though, so I don't know how often they used the main gymnasium for practice. 

 

In terms of facilities alone, softball always seemed like the next most likely program to be cut. It was the only team with their own single use facility left on campus. Aside form practice, the facility would only see ~12 games a season in early spring. Softball has been played on this site next to Krenzler since the 1980s (predating the original tennis courts in right field).

 

A softball field isn't that large, however it is still roughly ~1.5 acres of land on campus now opened up. In the short term there isn't much you could do with the parcels location in between Krenzler and the tennis facility. With a partial demolition/some minor modifications you could convert the facility into a multipurpose field for intramural sports. I believe most intramural field sports on campus just use Krenzler. Long term it does open the option for a potential reworking of Krenzler field for its use as a potential site for Cleveland's new soccer stadium (if the current attempt at gateway falls short).