I don't know who said this but there's a lot of truth in it: "Some of the most powerful people in your community are those who attend public meetings."

 

I'll say it from the opposite direction: If you don't attend, you don't matter.

Well thank you for taking the initiative Zimzolla.  I find it hard to believe that nobody else has come forward questioning this (especially when you consider all the squaking on here).

*and especially considering there is a rather highly reputable historic preservation program right on the campus..?

 

I find it hard to believe that they couldnt at least look at saving the facade....  and that it would be

beyond saving or too expensive to attempt. 

 

Zimzolla, make sure that on top of informing the Restoration Society that you also inform the Columbia building Facebook group (I believe you were also active on that site).  I'll see if I can get a letter together from the National Trust. 

 

I think the "if you don't attend, you don't matter" approach is more than a bit harsh... Not everyone knows when public meetings are and some people work two jobs or simply have prior obligations. It's great if folks can make it to public meetings, but I wouldn't 100% disregard their opinion if they simply couldn't make it.

I don't want to put words in KJP's mouth...ok, sure I do or I wouldn't be writing this post, BUT

 

I don't think he was necessarily criticizing those who can't make to to the meetings, but more pointing to the fact that if you (in the collective sense) are not in front of those makeing the decisions, your opinion isn't taken into consideration...which is true.

If the much toned down version you heard is true, I still don't think the idea is 100% true. Sure, it helps to be there and have your opinion heard, but folks can also write and visit politicians to let their opinion known outside of public meetings. We can also vote them out! So while it's great to attend such meetings, someone's voice can still be heard if they don't attend.

I'm saying that those who attend meetings can wield more influence than those who don't. Public entities aren't sympathetic to those who cannot attend public meetings. They hold them so you can speak up and shape their agenda. They sometimes have other avenues for public input (internet, letter, phone, TTY, etc). But when you're at a public meeting, they see you as a living, breathing human being, and someone who took the time to attend. After going to public meetings for 27 years, either as an advocate or as a journalist, I can tell you that public input counts for A LOT. At best, show up. At worst, write or call.

 

I feel so strongly about this, that I think it's at least as important as voting.

Sounds like you have far more experience in this than me, but my limited experience has been that sometimes, politicians simply have their minds made up. Not to get TOO far off base, but I know someone who went to a Downtown Cleveland Resident's "party" that Councilman Cimperman and Mayor Jackson attended. He tried to have his voice heard in opposition to taking down the Columbia Building and they were allegedly uninterested in discussing the matter or budging.

 

But I agree that it's probably on par with voting to let your opinion known, face-to-face. Do we have an UrbanOhio thread posting public meetings for different issues?

Thanks so much ZimZolla for your digging.  I just sent an email to Joe Mosbrooke expressing my hope that the building be preserved or, at the very least, that it not be casually torn down without much thought.  Even if the building is carved out, the rest of the block would still make a large, attractive development site.

Zimzolla, can you expand on the 5 year residential freeze? I was certainly unaware of this.

"They said that so far I am the only one to raise these questions (obviously they don't read UrbanOhio)."

 

Typical catch all answer. If Frangos is involved in this in any way shape or from, the outcome cannot be positive regarding any hope to preserve history--And, Cimperman is his pocket. Nothing more need be said...The End.

 

Funny how seemingly higher education produces those who allow for this to happen.  Gee... how no one seems to have thought about the potential appeal and character that can be added to this campus by integrating the past old, with the present new. Sadly the life expectancy of the new buildings will never compare. And of course they didn't find anything historically significant about the building in question...  Not when the agenda is demolition for the new.  How they think they can humor intelligent people with these catch all excuses is laughable.

 

 

Alright, after calling around CSU (who is being very cooperative) I have amassed a master list of contacts, all emails regarding the protection of the building should be directed to all these people.

 

Ronald Berkman: President of CSU 

[email protected]

 

Ed Schmittgen: CSU Architect 

[email protected]

 

Joe Mosbrook: CSU Director of Strategic Communications 

[email protected]

 

Stephanie McHenry: CSU VP of Business and Finance 

[email protected]

 

Nathan Engstrom: CSU Campus Sustainability Coordinator 

[email protected]

 

Laura Clark: Cuyahoga County Senior Development Finance Analyst

[email protected]

 

@Pugu, go to http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=oa.246246748741522&type=1 for photos of the building, what you are refering to was the building on prospect that housed their offices. That is renovated and occupied.

 

@willyboy, the national trust huh? do you have connections? Any bit of support helps, the more organizations that weigh in, the increased likely hood of success.

 

All who started emailing, send to the new people on the list too.

I believe the building to be architecturally unique in the city. I cant think of one other building that looks similar to this one. I think thats what makes the building architecturally significant.

In addition to separate letters....Why not circulate a petition with one letter in support of preservation...and then submit it t all the addresses. This can be done very effectively on www.change.org I'll bet they would never expect this. The case for preservation can be stated in the letter on the petition. Who here, can draft a concise and compelling letter reminding of the benefits and reasons the building should be preserved and integrated? Surely not I....  It would be an essay. Anyway, this can be a very effective attention getter, especially when this case is posted publicly online--which is the purpose of the site.  Advocates for a cleaner shoreline, locally, are doing this this with a litter issue and the signatures in support with extra comments has been very pleasing. All those email addresses and names can be included in the part where the petition is addressed.  See: www.change.org

Surely we will organize a petition, but I wouldn't mind pestering a few people to get started. This is really in the very early stages and is just getting off the ground now. Hopefully we will see this take off soon. Give me some time, and in the meantime, let these people now someone cares.

^Exactly, so let's not another Columbia Building happen... Thy cannot "un-know" the fact that there is a lot of support for preservation.  I also sent my letter to all the parties. By the way, the email address: [email protected] is not working.

I changed my original post. its Engstrom not Angstrom, my apologies.

Effective september 29 csu will lose 436 parking spots from lots s3 s2 and j for construction of campus village to begin.

 

I'll also use this opportunity to plug my effort. Save the wolfe music building, send in those letters. I have a lot of work ahead, but we are making progress. Maybe I'll have time to update everyone next well if you are interested.

Where is the Wolfe music building?

Where is the Wolfe music building?

 

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=41.501434,-81.675048&ll=41.501471,-81.674643&spn=0.002085,0.004694&sll=41.499495,-81.695409&sspn=0.267697,0.512238&num=1&t=h&vpsrc=6&z=18

Effective september 29 csu will lose 436 parking spots from lots s3 s2 and j for construction of campus village to begin.

 

:clap: :clap: :clap:

 

I'll also use this opportunity to plug my effort. Save the wolfe music building, send in those letters. I have a lot of work ahead, but we are making progress. Maybe I'll have time to update everyone next well if you are interested.

 

Zimzolla,

 

Obviously, we're requesting the entire building be saved, but has there been any University discussion with at least saving the facade??

Effective september 29 csu will lose 436 parking spots from lots s3 s2 and j for construction of campus village to begin.

 

:clap: :clap: :clap:

 

 

 

Obviously, we're requesting the entire building be saved, but has there been any University discussion with at least saving the facade??

 

I doubt it but they did tell me this...

 

"As we progress with the building we will continue to explore options including salvaging the building and/or facade."

 

Idk, seems like a bullsh!t response if you read the whole email.

Are there any renderrings posted in this thread anywhere.  I saw the one a couple pages back, but it sounds lke that is not current. 

http://media.cleveland.com/metro/photo/02cgvillagejpg-d14e94f44d1080f6.jpg

 

Cant get find the design of the buildings yet

And only 3 of the buildings will be ready for 2012, according to this article:

 

http://www.csuohio.edu/class/com/clevelandstater/Copy/121512.html

 

The Campus Village will have nine buildings all together. The first three buildings will be completed in fall of 2012. The following year the other six buildings will come on line, stated by Joe Mosbrook, Director, Strategic Communications at Cleveland State University.

Based on the plans, are the front 3 buildings getting built first? That would require immediate demolitions

Here's the devolopers website we can keep an eye on.  Nothing really here yet. 

 

The four story building on the page may look similar to what is being built...?

 

http://polaris-realestate.com/project-under-development/cleveland-state-university/

You guys switched subjects awfully fast. One moment we're talking about the development on the south side of Euclid and the next we're talking about the development on the north side of Chester?

 

http://media.cleveland.com/metro/photo/02cgvillagejpg-d14e94f44d1080f6.jpg

 

And, damn, why can't Polaris build something like the Chelsea, the 16-story mixed-use building for Pittsburgh's Oakland neighborhood?!?! That would be a stunner for anywhere here -- University Circle, Midtown, CSU or downtown (preferably on the Warehouse District parking lots!):

http://polaris-realestate.com/project-under-development/the-chelsea/

CSU's plans for the building is basically, "Whatever the developers want to do with the site".

 

Here is a rough draft of a write up I did on the building for the committee overseeing this project per their request, I focused on history, another of my compatriots is focusing on architecture. Hopefully this will convince anyone who is on the fence to at the least write a letter and let those in power know someone cares. Its really rough, and more hopefully will be added. Any comments and/or information about the tenants or other history would be much appreciated.

 

Also the Cleveland Restoration Society has officially recognized this project and has sent a letter to Cleveland State, we are still waiting for the National Trust for Historic Preservation, but I am confidant we will have their full support soon.

 

 

Wolfe Music Building Letter draft

The Wolfe music building at 2112 Euclid Avenue was first built in 1927, and was designed by the illustrious architecture firm Walker and Weeks. The firm Walker and Weeks have designed such Cleveland landmarks as Severance Hall, the Cleveland Public Library, and the Federal Reserve Bank, and are arguably the most important and famous architecture firm in Cleveland’s history. The structure was built for the Wolfe Music company, a business that would be moving from 641 Prospect Avenue to its new location on the up and coming showcase for arts, culture, and commerce on Euclid Ave, Cleveland’s very own answer to Fifth Avenue. Euclid Avenue in the 20’s was thus in a transitionary period; the single family homes and mansions that formerly made up millionaire’s row were being cleared away for these new commercial structures. The buildings that would come to occupy this new showcase, according to Dr. Klein, were built to be landmark structures that would stand the test of time. The Wolfe Music building would thus reside with the beautiful New Amsterdam Hotel and the grand Trinity Cathedral designed by Charles Scheweinfurth.

The Wolfe Music Co. would occupy the structure until 1930, when structure became vacant until 1943. In 1943 the Wolfe Music building came to be the home of the national Register company, which occupied the building until 1958. In 1966 The Cooper School of Art would come to call the building home, and would remain there until 1972. The most recent tenant was Kinko’s, which operated there until CSU purchased the property in 1996/97. The building has recently been nominated for entry into the National Register of Historic Places by Robert Keiser, but it has been stalled due to lack of photographs of the interior.

 

Thanks to Robert Keiser for the history he has already written on the building in his nomination for the structure.

Thanks to Dr. Klein for his knowledge on the history of Euclid Ave. in the 20’s.

 

Effective september 29 csu will lose 436 parking spots from lots s3 s2 and j for construction of campus village to begin.

 

:clap: :clap: :clap:

 

Why are you clapping?  This is terrible--it's going to be a complete mess for those of us that need to be on campus or in that area on a daily basis.

 

I'm all for saving history, but come on now, Cleveland State is not a museum.  It's an actual functioning college campus with a vast majority of enrollment being commuters.  Parking is already an issue on campus during peak hours, and this is going to cause big problems if they don't have a legitimate alternative.

 

Maybe Cleveland State should simply move out to Beachwood or Independence.  That way school officials can have their brand new campus with plenty of parking and everyone trying to save every little bit of history at all costs over progress can have their empty historic buildings in the most recently abandoned section of Cleveland.  :laugh:

Regarding the North Campus :  Does anyone have any information on what was discussed or shown?

 

On Sept 16 The Cleveland Planning Commission had this on their agenda.

DOWNTOWN/FLATS DESIGN REVIEW

 

DF2011-037: CSU North Campus Neighborhood mixed-use development

Project Address: Chester Avenue between East 21st and East 24th Streets

Project Representative: Rob Martinson, Buckingham Companies

 

 

And, damn, why can't Polaris build something like the Chelsea, the 16-story mixed-use building for Pittsburgh's Oakland neighborhood?!?! That would be a stunner for anywhere here -- University Circle, Midtown, CSU or downtown (preferably on the Warehouse District parking lots!):

http://polaris-realestate.com/project-under-development/the-chelsea/

 

Word.  And check out this bad boy. 

 

http://www.startribune.com/local/minneapolis/130268373.html

 

"A Minnetonka-based developer unveiled plans Wednesday to build a 33-story luxury apartment complex in the heart of downtown Minneapolis that would be the first high-rise rental building in the city in nearly 30 years.

 

The Opus Development Corp. project, expected to cost more than $100 million, is the latest in a series of new apartment buildings designed to accommodate a growing number of residents who either can't afford or aren't interested in home ownership...

 

...Last month, a Chicago-based developer announced plans to build a 36-story luxury apartment building near Loring Park. A $70 million apartment/grocery complex also is in the works for 222 Hennepin Av. S., site of a former Jaguar dealership."

Wow the university architect told me it was built in 1910.

Effective september 29 csu will lose 436 parking spots from lots s3 s2 and j for construction of campus village to begin.

 

:clap: :clap: :clap:

 

Why are you clapping?  This is terrible--it's going to be a complete mess for those of us that need to be on campus or in that area on a daily basis.

 

I'm all for saving history, but come on now, Cleveland State is not a museum.  It's an actual functioning college campus with a vast majority of enrollment being commuters.  Parking is already an issue on campus during peak hours, and this is going to cause big problems if they don't have a legitimate alternative.

 

Maybe Cleveland State should simply move out to Beachwood or Independence.  That way school officials can have their brand new campus with plenty of parking and everyone trying to save every little bit of history at all costs over progress can have their empty historic buildings in the most recently abandoned section of Cleveland.  :laugh:

 

I think you need to take another crack at reading this thread as you are horribly confused. The North Campus development is occurring on CHESTER AVE, while the Wolfe Music building is on EUCLID AVE. The North Campus district is replacing parking with a mixed use apartments, the Viking Hall/Wolfe Music development is nowhere near beginning construction, and will not affect your ability to park 5 feet from your classes. Maybe you should be less worried about the Urban planning of Cleveland State and a little more focused on your reading comprehension.

Move back to the city and let's learn how to use two legs again!

You can always use that bus/rapid pass you already paid for... that's what I do.  That and a pair of legs seems to work incredibly well at all times of day!

Perhaps a way to keep this whole thing clearer is to define what area or ownership is considered "College Town" versus a Cleveland State University Project?  When I look back in this thread it seemed the discussion was focused on the private development on property not owned by CSU.  Now there is discussion about projects on CSU property which I would think should be part of the Cleveland State University Developments.  Is this a legitimate question for the group?

 

For me, the "College Town" area is roughly bordered by E.18th, Euclid Ave., E.21st and Prospect.  This at one time was all privately held property.  CSU has acquired some of the land which has been turned into an open space.

 

I would think that the issue with the Wolfe Music Building should be part of the Cleveland State University Developments thread along with the North Campus Project since they are on CSU owned property.  Of course this is just me trying to keep things straight in my already over taxed brain.

 

Whatever works for the group is fine with me.  I just wanted to give my two cents.

CSU wants to create an urban residential campus, not a drive-through. It has suburban satellites for those want to treat their cars like their sofas.

CSU wants to create an urban residential campus, not a drive-through. It has suburban satellites for those want to treat their cars like their sofas.

 

so how would you classify the thousands of people who are part time graduate students in the business program, urban program, law program, etc that work/live off campus??? 

so how would you classify the thousands of people who are part time graduate students in the business program, urban program, law program, etc that work/live off campus??? 

 

I suspect CSU views them as a potential market. As for my views and classifications? Who cares? Oh, that's right -- you do. Thanks, gottaplan. My #1 stalker fan!

whatever.  In your post above you begrudge people for driving to campus, but when a legitimate question is raised about grad students who live off campus (some very far off campus, like Mentor, Akron, for whom public transit isn't an option) and commute in, you turn it into some sort of joke/personal attack at me.  Very mature.  Back on topic

CSU wants to create an urban residential campus, not a drive-through. It has suburban satellites for those want to treat their cars like their sofas.

 

Sorry, the Solon satellite "campus" is not convenient for me, either.  Not only that, it has either already closed or will be closing in the near future.  Not only that, but it never offered almost any of the courses I need to complete my program.

 

You can always use that bus/rapid pass you already paid for... that's what I do.  That and a pair of legs seems to work incredibly well at all times of day!

 

I can't afford to add an extra 30-45 minutes (probably more even) of commute time to my day.  And although that's another issue, students who commute and park on campus should not have to subsidize RTA passes for those who ride the train/bus, which is essentially what's happening right now.

 

Move back to the city and let's learn how to use two legs again!

 

I never lived in the city, so how can I move "back"?  :wtf:

 

I think you need to take another crack at reading this thread as you are horribly confused. The North Campus development is occurring on CHESTER AVE, while the Wolfe Music building is on EUCLID AVE. The North Campus district is replacing parking with a mixed use apartments, the Viking Hall/Wolfe Music development is nowhere near beginning construction, and will not affect your ability to park 5 feet from your classes. Maybe you should be less worried about the Urban planning of Cleveland State and a little more focused on your reading comprehension.

 

I can read just fine, thank you, and I am very definitely aware of the geography of the area.  I know exactly where the Wolfe Music building is, I'm in that area all of the time as I'm walking from the parking lot to classes.  FYI I think that's more than a five foot walk, but I'll count it out for you next time I'm there and report back.

 

The post I made had two points which were not necessarily related to each other (though at times they can be).  The first point has to do with me wondering why the poster I quoted was clapping at the loss of parking spaces on an already squeezed campus.  The second point had to do with the idea of saving history as the expense of progress.  I'm not really sure how that building, as it is, might fit into the school's plans.

Perhaps a way to keep this whole thing clearer is to define what area or ownership is considered "College Town" versus a Cleveland State University Project?  When I look back in this thread it seemed the discussion was focused on the private development on property not owned by CSU.  Now there is discussion about projects on CSU property which I would think should be part of the Cleveland State University Developments.  Is this a legitimate question for the group?

 

It might make sense just to have a single CSU Area Developments thread at this point.

im not really sure how something like the old wolfe building can be used by csu either....so tear it down!!!

whatever.  In your post above you begrudge people for driving to campus, but when a legitimate question is raised about grad students who live off campus (some very far off campus, like Mentor, Akron, for whom public transit isn't an option) and commute in, you turn it into some sort of joke/personal attack at me.  Very mature.  Back on topic

 

Sorry you took it as a personal attack. But YOU took it that way. If you don't like what I say, ignore me. I have an informed opinion on this matter and I am going to share it.

 

Back to CSU. When it started some 40 years ago, it changed land use to make it easier for people to drive to its downtown campus. Now it is changing land use to make it easier for people to live there. I'm sure there will still be many people who can't/won't live at CSU. But for those of us who believe strongly in vibrant urban cores, I welcome these changes in policy by CSU.

I just can't imagine a situation where diminishing our over abundance of surface lots would not be cheered by people who desire a more urban environment.

I think we're setting up a false battle here.  Is there really going to be a shortage of spaces or will drivers simply need to shift to a different lot or garage?

if more people live on and around campus wont that lead to even more parking spaces??

I think we're setting up a false battle here.  Is there really going to be a shortage of spaces or will drivers simply need to shift to a different lot or garage?

 

All I know is that in the three years I commuted to CSU, I could probably count on one hand the amount of times I was forced to park somewhere other than the garage right next to my classroom building.

^^You mean demand for spaces?  The north campus project will include many new parking spaces, even a garage, I believe, so it's not clear if it's going to lead to a net change in the demand/supply dynamics.  Though people who park on those lots now may have to find an alternative garage/lot. 

 

I very much believe CSU is incapable of having an open mind about the Wolfe Music Bldg.  I find it very difficult to believe, however, that CSU doesn't have some handle on the parking needs of its employees and students.