if more people live on and around campus wont that lead to even more parking spaces??

 

Ceteris paribus, absolutely.  But not if parking lots are being eliminated and/or enrollment is increasing (which is happening).

 

Look, I'm all for CSU increasing residential enrollment.  That can only be a good thing on a number of different levels.  But I strongly believe that because of what CSU is to the community, it's also always going to have a significant commuter enrollment.  The school must find a way to fairly balance the two.  Or if it really is trying to transition to an almost completely residential campus in the future (which I don't think is realistic, at least not in the short term), it needs to consider the needs of the current students.

 

The elimination of 400+ parking spaces is not insignificant.  As far as I can tell, from dealing with this everyday, it's not just about shifting to a different lot or garage.  During peak hours, we could be talking about a big problem.  It's disingenuous for them to sell so many parking passes and then turn around and change things up so drastically in the middle of the semester.  As far as I know, they first started informing students and faculty of this change just yesterday.  So they're already handling this like amateurs.  Not to mention the fuzzy math they're using by proposing that folks start using the South Garage (which is their brilliant parking solution for everything) and parking at Chester and 30th, which is a laughable suggestion.  Not only is SG a hike from campus and a pain in the ass to get into because students have to swipe in and out, it only has 400 spots and is already a quarter to half full on a daily basis.  There's no way that garage can handle all of the overflow from the north campus lots.  That's not even taking into consideration when big events are held at Wolstein or on campus (like when Obama visited twice last year) and other lots are closed.

All I know is that in the three years I commuted to CSU, I could probably count on one hand the amount of times I was forced to park somewhere other than the garage right next to my classroom building.

 

When was this?  Things have changed.

Back in the good ole days I suppose.  What would you consider an unreasonable walk from your parking space to class?

Back in the good ole days I suppose.  What would you consider an unreasonable walk from your parking space to class?

 

When the weather's like this, heck, I don't mind walking up to a dozen blocks.  But when we're talking several inches of snow on the ground and I'm coming straight from a place where I need to be wearing dress clothes/shoes, long distances are a problem.

I periodically have business on campus and I've always just parked in one of the prospect lots and walked.  Am I just really lucky to always get a spot there during the day?  I'm not questioning the validity of the parking concern since I've heard staff complain about parking regularly.

Clevelander17, I totally agree that auto commuters will be a major part of CSU's user base for the foreseeable future and need to be accommodated.  I guess I just disagree that parkers who need to swipe in and out of a new garage only 1/6th of a mile from the student center are really being neglected.  It's definitely an adjustment and it's human nature to complain about adjustments, and yes, it's stinks to have to walk through snow, but is this really that ridiculous?

 

That said, it would be really swell if CSU built into its RFP for the Viking Hall site some kind of requirement that developers build an arcaded walkway along East 22nd or a public passageway through the ground floor of their building to help shorten the exposed portion of the walk between the south garage and the heart of campus.

 

It might make sense just to have a single CSU Area Developments thread at this point.

 

Done. Good idea!

The south garage is huge and always seems to haven open spaces, people just dont want to walk. And most garages are easy to get in around 9:00 AM. If you go around noon they get filled up but still, the south garage is an option.

^It has been said, and not by me, that CSU doesn't have a parking problem.  It has a walking problem.

As a CSU student I'm excited to see that Chester area finally get some development. I've always thought that empty space gave suburban commuters the wrong impression of Cleveland.

 

I don't understand the parking criticism..unless we want these surface lots to remain surface lots they had to be closed for construction eventually..and the project includes a new parking structure. My classes are filled with suburban commuters and I hear complaints everyday about how awful Cleveland's traffic is and how there's nowhere to park. I think the city and CSU should be sensitive to these concerns, but also realize that they're coming from the type of people who are accustomed to driving their car to their next-door neighbor's house. These types of people will never be satisfied and every city I've spent time in shares this issue to an extent.

 

As for the Wolfe building, I'd love to see it saved but I have trouble imagining CSU incorporating it into a design in a tasteful way. Hopefully the facade can at least be preserved and used elsewhere if the whole structure can't be saved.

Clevelander17, I totally agree that auto commuters will be a major part of CSU's user base for the foreseeable future and need to be accommodated.  I guess I just disagree that parkers who need to swipe in and out of a new garage only 1/6th of a mile from the student center are really being neglected.  It's definitely an adjustment and it's human nature to complain about adjustments, and yes, it's stinks to have to walk through snow, but is this really that ridiculous?

 

First off, I've parked in the South Garage just about every day I've been down on campus this semester, and I did it for most of last year, too.  It's no adjustment for me.  That said, it will be a problem if that garage starts filling up to the point where during peak hours you have students driving around in circles for 15+ minutes in the garage looking for a spot/waiting for someone else to leave.  Believe it or not, this happens in other garages closer to campus on a regular basis.  Further, the swipe issue is an inconvenience everyday, and some days (it's happened to me at least three times in less than a year), the swipe reader can't read my card and then it becomes full-blown a headache, especially when there are cars lining up behind you.  The school needs to just go ahead and place booths there or do something to easily let prepaid students in.  Also, yes, while it's 1/6 of a mile if you're walking directly to the student center or main classroom building, that distance starts growing exponentially when we're talking about trying to get to the newer buildings nearer to 17th in one direction or 24th in the other.

 

I had a second point, but I think I forgot what it was...

I believe I read that they will be taking some of their lots at turning them into prepaid parking only. So people who dont have passes will just have to find somewhere a little bit farther away to park. Also a few weeks ago I went down there to show one of my friends the campus. The West, Central, and East garages(not sure if those are the correct names) were all full. Again this was around noon so this was the busiest time. I decided to go to the south garage and the garage was less than half full. The entire upper deck of the garage was completely empty. And as others have stated, its really not that far of a walk. Go to other campuses, non-urban, and students have to walk a much further distance to get to their classes everyday, in the same weather conditions. Hell if you really dont feel like walking you can wait for the E line trolley at the garage and take it over to the student center. I find it impossible to find a negative in turning a parking lot on Chester, into apartments with retail, and getting one step closer to a more walkable Chester.

As a CSU student I'm excited to see that Chester area finally get some development. I've always thought that empty space gave suburban commuters the wrong impression of Cleveland.

 

I don't understand the parking criticism..unless we want these surface lots to remain surface lots they had to be closed for construction eventually..and the project includes a new parking structure. My classes are filled with suburban commuters and I hear complaints everyday about how awful Cleveland's traffic is and how there's nowhere to park. I think the city and CSU should be sensitive to these concerns, but also realize that they're coming from the type of people who are accustomed to driving their car to their next-door neighbor's house. These types of people will never be satisfied and every city I've spent time in shares this issue to an extent.

 

As for the Wolfe building, I'd love to see it saved but I have trouble imagining CSU incorporating it into a design in a tasteful way. Hopefully the facade can at least be preserved and used elsewhere if the whole structure can't be saved.

 

See, as a commuting and returning student, I don't really care about any of that development, especially if it's going to make my life more difficult on a daily basis.

 

But as a resident of the region, I'm happy to see the development and the transition of the school to a more residential campus (I'm also anxiously awaiting for the school to change its name to the "University of Cleveland." ;) )

 

Also, yes, while it's 1/6 of a mile if you're walking directly to the student center or main classroom building, that distance starts growing exponentially when we're talking about trying to get to the newer buildings nearer to 17th in one direction or 24th in the other.

 

 

For people complaining about the weather issue, there is no relevance in that argument. All you need to do is get to the student center and once your there, you never have to go outside, with the help of the interlinks.

 

 

EDIT: And I agree with you that for the time being, they should build a booth in the South Garage and have it manned for prepaid parkers

I find it impossible to find a negative in turning a parking lot on Chester, into apartments with retail, and getting one step closer to a more walkable Chester.

 

And a lot of the people being inconvenienced right now either don't care about this or won't be around to experience any benefit from it.  Just something else to think about.

I understand the concern with regard to the dissappearance of parking areas due to future development, and the need for it to be replaced.  CSU is growing in student admission, and hopefully will be for the next several years.  With that will come increased staff and administration personnel.  Therefore, parking will need to be replaced, but hopefully, not in the same form that currently surrounds CSU with asphalt surface lots that offer very limited urban ammenities.  Hopefully, CSU, and the developers that have been working hard in developing an urban campus can come up with mixed use plans to maintain parking ammenities that make both the staff and students happy, and the urban pioneers.  Let's face it, people will always drive, and complain about walking.  A non-campus/CSU parking garage with retail nearby to the campus would be a start. 

 

Also, yes, while it's 1/6 of a mile if you're walking directly to the student center or main classroom building, that distance starts growing exponentially when we're talking about trying to get to the newer buildings nearer to 17th in one direction or 24th in the other.

 

 

For people complaining about the weather issue, there is no relevance in that argument. All you need to do is get to the student center and once your there, you never have to go outside, with the help of the interlinks.

 

You're right, except for the fact that that adds even more distance to the walk and innerlink does not connect with every single building, specifically those on the eastern part of the campus.  Yeah, I'm nit-picking here, but just want to get every bit of information out there. :)

Question: Is that new parking garage on Chester, that is going along with the new development, going to be open to prepaid students?  Or is it just going to be for the residents/patrons of the new mixed-use development?

 

Also, yes, while it's 1/6 of a mile if you're walking directly to the student center or main classroom building, that distance starts growing exponentially when we're talking about trying to get to the newer buildings nearer to 17th in one direction or 24th in the other.

 

 

For people complaining about the weather issue, there is no relevance in that argument. All you need to do is get to the student center and once your there, you never have to go outside, with the help of the interlinks.

 

You're right, except for the fact that that adds even more distance to the walk and innerlink does not connect with every single building, specifically those on the eastern part of the campus.  Yeah, I'm nit-picking here, but just want to get every bit of information out there. :)

 

What buildings? The new Education building is the only one I would assume doesnt connect

 

Also, yes, while it's 1/6 of a mile if you're walking directly to the student center or main classroom building, that distance starts growing exponentially when we're talking about trying to get to the newer buildings nearer to 17th in one direction or 24th in the other.

 

 

For people complaining about the weather issue, there is no relevance in that argument. All you need to do is get to the student center and once your there, you never have to go outside, with the help of the interlinks.

 

You're right, except for the fact that that adds even more distance to the walk and innerlink does not connect with every single building, specifically those on the eastern part of the campus.  Yeah, I'm nit-picking here, but just want to get every bit of information out there. :)

 

What buildings? The new Education building is the only one I would assume doesnt connect

 

That's right.  I don't think it connects to the PE building or the new rec center, but I don't spend a lot of time in either.

^Sounds like you might need a new parking card and that CSU might need to tighten up parking operations, whether or not they develop their surface lots. 

 

Anyone know if the West EAST 17th street and east garages fill up every day?  [thanks ClevelandOhio for the correction]

 

Also, I wonder if the parking fees are enough to pay off the constructions costs for the garages.  At less than $6 per day I wonder (http://www.csuohio.edu/services/parking/commmuterstudents/).  I know it would never work politically, but if the fees aren't high enough, it would be better to hike those and reduce tuition to make it revenue neutral.  That way, at least, the transit riding students wouldn't be subsidizing the garages they don't use.

^Sounds like you might need a new parking card and that CSU might need to tighten up parking operations, whether or not they develop their surface lots. 

 

Anyone know if the West 17th street and east garages fill up every day?

 

Also, I wonder if the parking fees are enough to pay off the constructions costs for the garages.  At less than $6 per day I wonder (http://www.csuohio.edu/services/parking/commmuterstudents/).  I know it would never work politically, but if the fees aren't high enough, it would be better to hike those and reduce tuition to make it revenue neutral.  That way, at least, the transit riding students wouldn't be subsidizing the garages they don't use.

 

Wouldnt want to park in that garage!!! Now thats a far walk HAHA

 

Anyways, the EAST 17th street garage is easy to find a parking spot probably up until 10:30 or 11. Maybe a little later. Couldnt tell you about the others though.

 

That's right.  I don't think it connects to the PE building or the new rec center, but I don't spend a lot of time in either.

 

The new rec center does connect.

I find it impossible to find a negative in turning a parking lot on Chester, into apartments with retail, and getting one step closer to a more walkable Chester.

 

And a lot of the people being inconvenienced right now either don't care about this or won't be around to experience any benefit from it.  Just something else to think about.

 

I'm confused.  Are you advocating not building on the surface lots because certain people, who aren't planning on staying in the area anyway, may be inconvenienced during the construction phase?

Anyways, the EAST 17th street garage is easy to find a parking spot probably up until 10:30 or 11. Maybe a little later. Couldnt tell you about the others though.

 

Last year I had a class at Ahuja at 10AM and I'd usually (not always though)  be able to find a spot in that garage, most often on the rooftop level.  Not sure if much has changed since then, but I think your time parameters are a safe bet.

I find it impossible to find a negative in turning a parking lot on Chester, into apartments with retail, and getting one step closer to a more walkable Chester.

 

And a lot of the people being inconvenienced right now either don't care about this or won't be around to experience any benefit from it.  Just something else to think about.

 

I'm confused.  Are you advocating not building on the surface lots because certain people, who aren't planning on staying in the area anyway, may be inconvenienced during the construction phase?

 

My point is that I don't generally believe CSU should be listening much to people who have no affiliation with the school when they're advocating doing things that are going to go against the best interests of currently-enrolled students who are actually paying to be there.  Especially not if they don't have realistic alternatives and/or haven't planned well-enough in advance to let everyone know what they're doing with more than a week's notice.

Maybe the changes they're considering might help increase their enrollment. How do you grow if you are listening only to your existing students? What are prospective students telling CSU? What do growing schools offer in terms of education, community amenities, etc. that CSU does not to the extent that they should?

From their website...

 

"Lot S3 will shrink by 265 parking spaces as Campus Village construction begins. We encourage those affected to park in South Garage (400 spaces), built to accommodate the loss of parking for Campus Village."

 

http://www.csuohio.edu/services/parking/

^Prepaid parking tags just went up around 28%.  I don't think a daily rate higher than $6 would fly.

Maybe the changes they're considering might help increase their enrollment. How do you grow if you are listening only to your existing students? What are prospective students telling CSU? What do growing schools offer in terms of education, community amenities, etc. that CSU does not to the extent that they should?

 

Maybe Cleveland State doesn't need to try to be identical to those schools?  Maybe Cleveland State serves a niche in this community in the form of an accessible commuter-friendly campus?  Maybe it really shouldn't be trying to change all that much?

 

I really don't know whether any of that is what's best for the school or not, but it's something I do think is relevant to the discussion.  I don't have a terribly strong opinion on the matter (despite what I may say).

This is a great read.

 

CSU Community Ignorant about South Garage

 

Recently, I had the privilege of listening to a member of the faculty senate lament for 10 minutes about her troubles finding a parking spot on campus. She informed meeting attendees—including President Ronald Berkman—that finding a location had been a 40-minute excursion, making her late for her own classes.

 

The same woman requested an all-faculty parking facility and a shuttle to and from that facility. She argued that all campus lots were full whenever she tried to park. Problem is, she hardly knew the south garage (and probably anything north of Chester Avenue) existed.

 

Here are some numbers, courtesy of Charles Wiersma, director of parking services. The south garage has 623 parking spaces. Approximately 300 of those spaces sit unfilled every day. Parking services has tried repeatedly to increase utilization of the south garage, but despite their efforts, parkers treat it like a condemned structure.

Wiersma also says there are 5,248 total spaces on campus and only 5,852 pre-paid hang tags have been sold for fall 2010 as of Sept. 23. Yes, the second number is slightly higher than the first, but there is no time during the week when all 5,852 hang tag holders are on campus in unison. Simple logic tells you there have to be spots somewhere.

 

http://www.csucauldron.com/csu-community-ignorant-about-south-garage-1.1649490

I really don't know whether any of that is what's best for the school or not, but it's something I do think is relevant to the discussion.  I don't have a terribly strong opinion on the matter (despite what I may say).

 

I agree strongly that its best for CSU to remain easily accessible for people who need/want to drive there...but these developments don't seem to be a real threat to that.

 

^Prepaid parking tags just went up around 28%.  I don't think a daily rate higher than $6 would fly.

 

Yeah, I figured.  CSU students have to buy free RTA use through some kind of fee though, right?  So it's probably close to a wash.

 

From their website...

 

"Lot S3 will shrink by 265 parking spaces as Campus Village construction begins. We encourage those affected to park in South Garage (400 spaces), built to accommodate the loss of parking for Campus Village."

 

http://www.csuohio.edu/services/parking/

 

So let me get this straight.  The school is trying/planning to increase enrollment.  Parking was considered a problem even with the addition of the South Garage while all of the north campus lots were fully open.  And yet they're still pushing the idea that the South Garage is going to be the answer moving forward?  And they're only informing students a week before this is supposed to happen in the middle of the semester?  They should have mentioned this as a possibility before selling those parking passes.  Sure, they're offering a prorated refund for anyone that wants to switch to a private parking lot pass, but I think it's possible that they did this knowing that few would go through the hassle.

 

You know what, I almost forgot about that worthless bus station right next to the South Garage that also makes it an inconvenient/dangerous option.  If you're walking up 22nd to/from the garage and a bus is sitting there in the middle of the sidewalk trying to get out to the road during busy times of day (or sometimes any time of day), you're going to be standing there like an idiot for a few minutes because there's no safe way to walk around the bus.

Yeah, I figured.  CSU students have to buy free RTA use through some kind of fee though, right?  So it's probably close to a wash.

 

Every student pays a $25 fee for RTA use each semester.  Both CSU and RTA know that a lot of students will barely use it and thus end up subsidizing it for those that wear their cards out.

This is a great read.

 

CSU Community Ignorant about South Garage

 

Recently, I had the privilege of listening to a member of the faculty senate lament for 10 minutes about her troubles finding a parking spot on campus. She informed meeting attendees—including President Ronald Berkman—that finding a location had been a 40-minute excursion, making her late for her own classes.

 

The same woman requested an all-faculty parking facility and a shuttle to and from that facility. She argued that all campus lots were full whenever she tried to park. Problem is, she hardly knew the south garage (and probably anything north of Chester Avenue) existed.

 

Here are some numbers, courtesy of Charles Wiersma, director of parking services. The south garage has 623 parking spaces. Approximately 300 of those spaces sit unfilled every day. Parking services has tried repeatedly to increase utilization of the south garage, but despite their efforts, parkers treat it like a condemned structure.

Wiersma also says there are 5,248 total spaces on campus and only 5,852 pre-paid hang tags have been sold for fall 2010 as of Sept. 23. Yes, the second number is slightly higher than the first, but there is no time during the week when all 5,852 hang tag holders are on campus in unison. Simple logic tells you there have to be spots somewhere.

 

http://www.csucauldron.com/csu-community-ignorant-about-south-garage-1.1649490

 

That's awesome, thanks for posting.  There's just something about parking that really seems to get people going.  Hardly unique to CSU.  Perceived but imaginary shortages seem to come up in many of the other threads too (e.g., Gordon Square, Ohio City, Shaker Square...)

C17 - I think you are missing the point that CSU is trying to grow by morphing into more of a residential campus and trying to become LESS reliant on commuters.  I don't know for sure, but I always took that to be the vision.  That's not to say that it is trying to axe out commuters altogther, I just think it wants to lose its 'identity' as a commuter school.  The new dorms, campus village, making the campus more walkable, efforts to improve retail and dining in the area, etc. are all signs which point in that direction.  IMHO, making such a transition is what is best for the University and is well worth any, what I would consider, minor inconvenience to current commuting students.  Someone is always inconvienced with every development.  Someone is always disappointed with some aspect (lord knows we know that around here with the ongoing obsession with the Columbia debacle).  And there are of course those who would complain if hundred dollar bills were pouring down from the sky due to fear of a paper cut. 

Yeah, I figured.  CSU students have to buy free RTA use through some kind of fee though, right?  So it's probably close to a wash.

 

Every student pays a $25 fee for RTA use each semester.  Both CSU and RTA know that a lot of students will barely use it and thus end up subsidizing it for those that wear their cards out.

 

Right.  And parking revenues may not be enough to pay for the garages, which would mean you're getting subsidized too when you park in the under-used south garage every time.

I don't think the parking issue is a problem at all.  If Cleveland wants to attract more young residents and become more attractive to people from other cities it needs to change its attitude about driving everywhere.  Do people in New York, San Francisco, Chicago, Portland etc. complain about parking?  Not nearly as much as Clevelanders.  Students (and professors) should learn to use the RTA especially with the ridiculously good deal that students get with the $25 per semester RTA pass.  If using RTA is not convenient to you then move.  Demanding that the city remain a giant parking lot for commuters so that they can live in farm country is not the right strategy for the city.  I could literally care 0% about parking.  Not having parking is a sign of progress. 

I don't think the parking issue is a problem at all.  If Cleveland wants to attract more young residents and become more attractive to people from other cities it needs to change its attitude about driving everywhere.  Do people in New York, San Francisco, Chicago, Portland etc. complain about parking?  Not nearly as much as Clevelanders.  Students (and professors) should learn to use the RTA especially with the ridiculously good deal that students get with the $25 per semester RTA pass.  If using RTA is not convenient to you then move.  Demanding that the city remain a giant parking lot for commuters so that they can live in farm country is not the right strategy for the city.  I could literally care 0% about parking.  Not having parking is a sign of progress. 

 

Exactly.  I've had suburban friends tell me they'd refuse to work downtown if the WHD surface lots were ever built on.  You know what?  Fine.  Addition by subtraction, because we'll never draw a critical mass of urbanites with a city that caters to people who hate it.  Those who prefer living far away should not be a city's target market.  Or that of its public university.

My God, is there really three pages of rambling about parking, and how far somebody is willing or not willing to walk at CSU or downtown in general, and not a peep about the actual housing development which started all of this.

Yeah so do we ahve renderings of the project? Or any info? Stop arguing over a pointless topic.

No renderings and the only news (which is excellent news) was the imminent closing of the surface lots for construction of the north campus residential.  Ergo, all this parking discussion.

Wow very good. Rapid development.

Geez, guys.  You know where new arrivals to Case in the engineering departments have to park?  In the NRV parking garage.  That's right, about a mile from the quad.  Tons of downtown workers park way more than 1/6 of a mile from thir offices.  I understand capacity concerns if they are merited, but the distance concerns boggle my mind.  It sounds as if CSU handled this situation wrong, but all of us here at UO knew this development was coming - I'm sure others did too!  I can't wait for there to be more people in that part of downtown, which is essentially currently one giant surface lot.

Geez, guys.  You know where new arrivals to Case in the engineering departments have to park?  In the NRV parking garage.  That's right, about a mile from the quad.  Tons of downtown workers park way more than 1/6 of a mile from thir offices.  I understand capacity concerns if they are merited, but the distance concerns boggle my mind.  It sounds as if CSU handled this situation wrong, but all of us here at UO knew this development was coming - I'm sure others did too!  I can't wait for there to be more people in that part of downtown, which is essentially currently one giant surface lot.

A long time ago a colleague of mine said that students will always have the right to complain about three things; the price of textbooks, the quality and price of food on-campus, and parking.  Before the Internet we could blame Burger King for the "have it my way (and right away)" attitude.  Now the Internet can be the whipping post.  Even at shopping malls you can watch people circle the lot waiting for that up close spot and getting frustrated.  They want it quick and convenient and think that everyone should bend to accommodate their needs.  Students of today do not know a world without the Internet where everything is virtually a click away.

 

All that being said, in just a few short years the new students will not know about how the campus consolidated its parking resources.  That 1/6 of a mile walk will be no big deal.  Others will have learned to compensate by leaving for school earlier of finding a different place to park.  I think CSU is doing the right thing in trying to build a critical mass of people who work, learn and live in the area.  So it shifts where you park, is that such a big deal???

 

Could CSU have handled this differently, maybe, but I bet that as with any privately financed project the start date was a moving target.  Once CSU knew that shovels would hit dirt they made the announcement.  Say something too soon and people forget.  There are still plenty of places to park if you know where to look.

C17 - I think you are missing the point that CSU is trying to grow by morphing into more of a residential campus and trying to become LESS reliant on commuters.  I don't know for sure, but I always took that to be the vision.  That's not to say that it is trying to axe out commuters altogther, I just think it wants to lose its 'identity' as a commuter school.  The new dorms, campus village, making the campus more walkable, efforts to improve retail and dining in the area, etc. are all signs which point in that direction.  IMHO, making such a transition is what is best for the University and is well worth any, what I would consider, minor inconvenience to current commuting students.  Someone is always inconvienced with every development.  Someone is always disappointed with some aspect (lord knows we know that around here with the ongoing obsession with the Columbia debacle).  And there are of course those who would complain if hundred dollar bills were pouring down from the sky due to fear of a paper cut.

 

I do have an understanding of CSU's long-term vision and for the most part (as a resident of the region) I'm a big fan.  However I do also think that CSU, as it currently exists, serves a very important niche to the community.  So I'm torn on supporting their plans if they're trying to move too far away from what they've been offering for the past five decades.  I think that the school needs to be cognizant of how it balances these two oftentimes competing interests.

 

Regardless, as a current student, I think that they could have planned this transition a little bit better for those who might be adversely affected.  Generally-speaking, my experiences in more than a year at the school have been excellent and I really do like the place and will likely be working to make it better long after I've completed my studies there.  And this might be the first time I've had a major issue with the way the administration has handled a situation.

 

Right.  And parking revenues may not be enough to pay for the garages, which would mean you're getting subsidized too when you park in the under-used south garage every time.

 

I find it very hard to believe that in the decades of use that CSU gets out of its parking lots and garages that the revenues from those that pay to use these facilities isn't more than enough to cover the costs of building/maintaining these structures.  But then again, I could be wrong.

 

I don't think the parking issue is a problem at all.

 

Are you in a situation where you're on campus multiple times a week?

 

If Cleveland wants to attract more young residents and become more attractive to people from other cities it needs to change its attitude about driving everywhere.  Do people in New York, San Francisco, Chicago, Portland etc. complain about parking?  Not nearly as much as Clevelanders.

 

With all due respect, Cleveland is not any of those cities.  The first three have a greater population density than Cleveland and the Portland myth (as myself and others might call it) is its own animal.  This region, as it is constituted, does not now need, nor should it have, the extensive public transportation options offered in those cities.  That ship has sailed.

 

Students (and professors) should learn to use the RTA especially with the ridiculously good deal that students get with the $25 per semester RTA pass.  If using RTA is not convenient to you then move.  Demanding that the city remain a giant parking lot for commuters so that they can live in farm country is not the right strategy for the city.  I could literally care 0% about parking.  Not having parking is a sign of progress.

 

What a condescending response!  I don't live in farm country, but even if I did, if you want people like myself and people who live further out in "farm country" to ever spend time in the city (or anywhere for that matter), you need to make it accessible for them to do in the common manner that is used across the state and country.  Trying to force people to live in a certain place or use a certain type of transportation will never work, I promise you this.  Cleveland State does well in its current role.  A lot of the students that the university currently serves will, for a variety of different reasons, never be residential students.  If Cleveland State stops being accessible and convenient to commuter students, they will take their dollars elsewhere (and best believe that other universities in the region will step in to fill the demand).

 

Exactly.  I've had suburban friends tell me they'd refuse to work downtown if the WHD surface lots were ever built on.  You know what?  Fine.  Addition by subtraction, because we'll never draw a critical mass of urbanites with a city that caters to people who hate it.  Those who prefer living far away should not be a city's target market.  Or that of its public university.

 

And watch how quickly the city's assets and institutions either follow their constituents to the suburbs, leave the region completely, or die off.  The above type of thinking is very short-sighted and will hasten the demise of the city. 

Cleveland State has the greatest ability to change downtown in my opinion. Personally I think there is enough parking  for the schools demand. As they add more dorms and apartments, some of the students that do commute will no longer need parking space. Many will remain commuters for many reasons, and they will have plenty of parking available. More students will be living on campus, creating a more 24/7 campus/downtown. More students equals more business which ends up attracting more people. If CSU could have 10,000 students living on campus, you would see tons of benefits to downtown. Those 10,000 who now are currently going to Kent, Bowling Green, OU, OSU, would have much more a positive effect if they were living in Downtown Cleveland, from a Cleveland perspective. Also they would then be more exposed to living in an urban environment, and walking and taking public transportation, which would hopefully make them want to stay in the city, and not move out to Westlake or Mentor.

^^ I thought I was the only one becoming uneasy with the hatred being thrown at suburbanites around here.

^^ I thought I was the only one becoming uneasy with the hatred being thrown at suburbanites around here.

 

I dont agree with alot of the negative comments toward people who live in the suburbs, and its not like every college kid can just move away from home that easy. But you cant design downtown based on people who choose to live far away, many who wont frequent the city often. Look what it got us. A bunch of demolished buildings and tons of ugly parking lots. That really hurt the city, and continues to today. Its not like CSU has no parking spaces, its just that people dont want to walk from the south garage. And imagine a CSU with 15,000 residents and 15,000 commuters! Wont happen anytime soon but I think due to its location, CSU has the ability to always attract a large number of commuters, but also have a large residential base as well. The city would benefit greatly from it.

Are you in a situation where you're on campus multiple times a week?

 

Yes I actually attend CSU for grad school three days a week so I know exactly what the situation is like.  I usually take public transportation but will occasionally drive when it is raining or I am lazy.  When I drive and have trouble finding a spot it does not bother me in the least.  CSU is great because of its proximity to downtown and along with that comes limited parking and I am ok with that. 

Take a breather, folks. Unless there's a big news items in Sunday's PD about CSU, I'll unlock this thread on Monday. Bye.