Cleveland State will replace Viking Hall with a $25M Health Sciences building...and not with the previously contemplated retail/commercial development.

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2011/11/cleveland_state_to_build_25_mi.html

 

Cleveland State to build $25 million health sciences building

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio - Cleveland State University will demolish Viking Hall, a vacant dormitory on Euclid Avenue, and replace it with a $25 million health sciences and life sciences building that will allow collaboration among researchers and expand the university's relationship with the Northeast Ohio Medical University.

 

The Clean Ohio Fund last weekawarded a $2 million grant to CSU to help pay for asbestos removal and demolition of the 13-story building and another building on the site. CSU has allocated $1.8 million toward the project, which will get underway next year, said spokesman Rob Spademan.

 

The dormitory, which housed up to 395 students, was built in 1971 as a Holiday Inn and closed in 2010. CSU owns the 1.7 acres bounded by Euclid and Prospect avenues and East 21st and East 22nd streets. It had planned to transform the property into a $50 million commercial, retail and residential development, according to details outlined in Cuyahoga County's application to the Ohio Department of Development for the grant.

 

But plans changed as the university realized it would be advantageous to focus on its growing role in health sciences, officials said.

Wow! Wonder if they're going to move forward with the $50 million mixed-use development someplace else?

Wow, I thought we would have a little more time.

 

Myself and some members of SLPA are still working with the Cleveland Restoration society on this, and are close to some sort of breakthrough, though I don't want to get into the details yet. Just want you UO'ers to know we are still advocating for the Wolfe music if anyone cares anymore.

 

Now ignoring the preservation aspect, I am not so crazy about this plan. I don't quite understand what they mean by the BGES, Chemisty, and mathematics departments moving to this building. What about the huge, though admittedly run down Science and research center? Will all the professors research labs move here? What about their offices, the teaching laboratories, the lecture halls? Are they leaving the physics department behind?

 

I cant believe that CSU would separate any of these components apart, it just wouldn't make sense, so I must assume its all moving down and across the street. The building will need to be massive, though the current plan is to demolish the whole block (yes rascal house and peabodies too). So what, now the science building will be empty?

 

This get a meh from me. I am excited at the prospects of a new science building, and that classrooms may cross Euclid, but what of the hulking Science building? And I don't see any way the wolfe can fit into this plan at all.

Health Sciences is supposed to be one of Cleveland States areas of excellence. They currently have one of the worst buildings on campus. This is definitely needed.

Another historic Euclid building comes down? Sigh when will we learn

Health Sciences is supposed to be one of Cleveland States areas of excellence. They currently have one of the worst buildings on campus. This is definitely needed.

Agreed

Out with the old and in with the new. Progress!!!!

One of the most beautiful buildings to ever grace our city once stood where Viking Hall is now at. As a matter of fact, there were 2 other buildings, a one-story and another long building down E. 21st that were all torn down for a Holiday Inn. Sad part is, the New Amsterdam Hotel that was there was among the ultimate beauties of architecture we ever had. To tear down Viking Hall is an absolute plus, because it is a way to move forward and away from the 60's where we demo'd all we could. CSU was a bad bad boy when they first built up the campus and have taken some steps to change that, maybe not to change what bad stuff they did, but at least to improve the look of the campus. As for the building by W&W that is planned to come down - what a damn shame. We just had a W&W mansion, one of their first, torn down in Cleveland Heights this year!

 

Zimzolla, if I can help in anyway, let me know. I want to save this building from the wrecking balls. Once it's gone, it's gone. Me and my brother have tears in our eyes over the loss of New Amsterdam, let's hope this doesn't happen again.

Out with the old and in with the new. Progress!!!!

 

I'll bet your grandparents get real nervous when you show up.

Wow, I thought we would have a little more time.

 

Myself and some members of SLPA are still working with the Cleveland Restoration society on this, and are close to some sort of breakthrough, though I don't want to get into the details yet. Just want you UO'ers to know we are still advocating for the Wolfe music if anyone cares anymore.

 

Now ignoring the preservation aspect, I am not so crazy about this plan. I don't quite understand what they mean by the BGES, Chemisty, and mathematics departments moving to this building. What about the huge, though admittedly run down Science and research center? Will all the professors research labs move here? What about their offices, the teaching laboratories, the lecture halls? Are they leaving the physics department behind?

 

I cant believe that CSU would separate any of these components apart, it just wouldn't make sense, so I must assume its all moving down and across the street. The building will need to be massive, though the current plan is to demolish the whole block (yes rascal house and peabodies too). So what, now the science building will be empty?

 

This get a meh from me. I am excited at the prospects of a new science building, and that classrooms may cross Euclid, but what of the hulking Science building? And I don't see any way the wolfe can fit into this plan at all.

 

For some reason I believe CSU will Tear Down the Science and Research Center and build up something brand new in its place because it's their land which allows the cost to build to be cheaper. I don't see a problem in moving them to a new state of the art building which would allow them to do the best research possible. I also don't mind tearing down a college hall for something new maybe because I wasn't born when it went up so I have no attachment to it. Now tearing down other downtown historic buildings is a different story.....(Side note I wish the owners of Double Tree hotel would have torn down and rebuilt their downtown hotel because that thing is UGLY reminds me of Viking Hall)  :|

^That is because both buildings were built and designed (about the same time) as Holiday Inn's and that was the nationwide prototype at the time of construction.

Passed the "construction site" today. Looks like a parking lot full of cars... I thought they were closing those lots

There is a sign that says something like "Parking Lots To Close Anytime Now". Yet, yes, they are still open. I think the groundbreaking was them hitting a car with a shovel.

 

BTW, is it official that the Art Bldg. is coming down? I kinda like it... and yeah, they say "too expensive to fix up", but isn't that the cost of saving old gems?

The art building has a poor layout and doesn't interact with the street well(just a brick wall). The entrance is not desirable either. In my opinion this building is nothing special and not worth saving. I absolutely hate tearing down historic buildings. I find this building architecturally insignificant, and holding back progress. I love it compared to the parking lots that were there though! My feeling for this building are the same as for the Chester Building, Viking Hall, and the Science Buildings. Tear them down!

Jeff Johnson stands up for the Wolfe building!

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2011/11/councilman_wants_to_save_build.html

Let CSU demo the Wolfe Building!  CSU knows how to balance historic significance, economics, and good taste.  Johnson is just trying to get attention for himself at the expense of CSU's progress.

 

CSU knows how to balance historic significance, economics, and good taste.

 

Not so far....

 

Johnson is just trying to get attention for himself at the expense of CSU's progress.

 

Now you got one right.

Let CSU demo the Wolfe Building!  CSU knows how to balance historic significance, economics, and good taste.  Johnson is just trying to get attention for himself at the expense of CSU's progress.

 

 

No CSU doesn't. The building below was basically raped and torn apart a few years back and as far as I know, nothing was saved. What a shame: beautiful ornaments on this one! I have heard some were saved but at that rate, when will we see them again? It had some facial sculptures too. It was torn down so that a field of gravel could take its place - and the hope one day for some high tech building to be built there. ONE DAY. Always ONE DAY in Cleveland. CSU destroyed a very dense residential neighborhood for a parking garage and has torn down so much stuff that an 18 year old college student today would never in a million years be able to envision the density of rather nice looking stuff that once graced the land. When I went started at CSU in '99 they were tearing down a very large warehouse-style building that was the size of Norton Furniture. That land is currently a field of grass. Not saying nothing should ever be torn down, but CSU was and still is a major contributor to ripping stuff down. Then again, most of Cleveland was and still is like that.

 

 

KJP, I don't think you are giving Johnson enough credit. All I know is that Johnson already has a track record for historic preservation, and he in all my interactions with him over the past few months appears to have a genuine respect and appreciation for historic buildings, and I am happy and thankful that he has taken on this project.

 

Here is how I see it. Johnson saw a group who within his ward asked him to save the Wolfe music building. Since the only way to get a building nominated for landmarking is for the councilman of the ward to nominate it, he is simply fulfilling the wishes of those he represents.

 

Will he get publicity? is it a perk? sure. But I do not believe that it was his motivation. Johnson is a preservationist, rare in this region from what I have seen. This isn't a protest against new constructions, this is a protest for the few remaining relics of Euclid avenue's past.

 

Besides, is progress putting CSU into debt on a new science building when the old one can be rehabbed? CSU has avoided debt thus far even with all the new building going on, this 25 million bond will set us on the wrong path.

^Wow...a Jeff Johnson fan...I thought his mother was the single member of that club. :-D

 

Is this actually in Johnson's ward like you said?  I thought his ward was more around University Circle (recall the stink he made regarding the Hazel Road apartments).

^That is because both buildings were built and designed (about the same time) as Holiday Inn's and that was the nationwide prototype at the time of construction.

 

Wow a nationwide prototype?!  :-o 60's and 70's architecture may be the ugliest era of architecture I've seen (Ex. The old Ameritrust Tower on 9th)  :|

^Wow...a Jeff Johnson fan...I thought his mother was the single member of that club. :-D

 

Is this actually in Johnson's ward like you said?  I thought his ward was more around University Circle (recall the stink he made regarding the Hazel Road apartments).

 

Jeff Johnson's Ward 8 is very gerrymandered.  It touches University Circle, goes north to include all of Glenville, then hugs the lake until East 55th where it swoops down to Chester, runs through AsiaTown and goes to around East 18th.  Here's a map from the PD that shows the crazy shape of Ward 8:

 

http://www.cleveland.com/cityhall/index.ssf/2009/03/cleveland_city_council_adopts.html

From the Wolfe Bldg. article:

 

"This is a discussion of what kind of value does this building have to the past and future of Cleveland," he said.

 

The Cleveland Landmarks Commission is scheduled to hold a hearing on Dec. 8, he said. If it and Cleveland Council designate the building a city landmark CSU cannot demolish it unless it gets approval from the Landmark Commission.

 

****

 

Well, if we want to save this place, you know who to contact.

KJP, I don't think you are giving Johnson enough credit.

 

For what, being a convicted felon?

 

http://clevelandmagazinepolitics.blogspot.com/2009/04/rise-and-fall-of-jeff-johnson.html

 

Back to CSU......

^I can't say I'd ever vote for him, but it is possible for him to be both a scumbag and a good councilman on some issues...

 

Anyway, I'm now a little confused about what exactly comprises the Viking Hall development site; it excludes the Rascal House, the parking lot immediately to Rascal House's east and the Peabody's building, correct?

Doesn't the Art Building have some sort of connection with Cleveland's early film history in general and more specifically, the Warner Brothers. Or was that only the management of the Allen Theater?

I did a quick search to verify, but couldn't find anything.

 

 

Anyway, I'm now a little confused about what exactly comprises the Viking Hall development site; it excludes the Rascal House, the parking lot immediately to Rascal House's east and the Peabody's building, correct?

 

Correct.... for now

I always thought it was the whole site being demolished.

^^Thanks.  The articles only mention the demo of Viking Hall and Wolfe, so I assumed as much, but they are pretty vague as to the actual boundaries of the site. 

 

So assuming CSU doesn't also acquire Rascal House and the neighboring parking lot, the Wolfe Building really is just a corner of that large development site.  I really don't understand how carving it out would harm the project.  It's still a large site for what isn't that huge a complex (given the price tag), and the site could still have large floor plates because of the site width along Prospect.  It would have slightly less Euclid frontage, but so what?  Just doesn't seem like much of a hardship for CSU carve out Wolfe and sell it to a developer, integrate it into the new facility, or repurpose it for some other university function. 

 

Doesn't the Art Building have some sort of connection with Cleveland's early film history in general and more specifically, the Warner Brothers. Or was that only the management of the Allen Theater?

I did a quick search to verify, but couldn't find anything.

 

Might you be thinking of the large "Film Building" on Payne at East 21st?

 

 

That might be the one? Thanks.

I was wondering, if CSU proceeds with this Health Science building at E22 and Euclid, would they wish to bridge Euclid and then bridge Prospect to connect with the garage by the STJ Transit Center.  They do seem to like bridge connections.  As for the Wolfe Building, I would sacrifice it in a heartbeat for this.  Is it true that a building can be designated a landmark against the owner's wishes?  I could understand more readily, if the building had been designated a landmark BEFORE CSU bought it.  Is what the councilman is trying to do considered "due process?"

CSU = poop for preserving historic bldgs.

As for the Wolfe Building, I would sacrifice it in a heartbeat for this.

 

Argh.  Why are you assuming it's a choice between the two?  I think most people here would prefer to see CSU preserve the Wolfe Bulding AND build the health sciences facility, and the site certainly seems large enough to accommodate both.

Yes, most of us would prefer to see it preserved and a new building, but if given the choice of no new building vs. preserving the Wolfe building, I'll take a new building. The Wolfe is an attractive building and it'd be great to keep it, but it's not like we're talking about replacing it with a surface lot.

If it and Cleveland Council designate the building a city landmark CSU cannot demolish it unless it gets approval from the Landmark Commission.

 

Which shouldn't be hard.

 

http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/local_news/cleveland_metro/cleveland-landmarks-commission-votes-to-tear-building-for-casino-welcome-center

 

If anyone wants to support the Wolfe Music Building please come to the landmarks meeting on December 8th at 9:00 am. We want CSU to explore all their options, not just the easiest, and get them to look again at keeping the Wolfe in their plans for the new structure. Landmarking is one such way. If you can't make it, send an email to Jennifer Coleman and the other members of the commission.

Look I'm all for preserving buildings but the Wolfe building has been empty for 14 years with no plan to redevelop it so now it sits looking decrepit taking away from the vibrant look going on sometimes its good to keep historic buildings (May Co., Arcade Etc.) but this one has to go it looks too beat up and seems like if saved it will continue to sit empty and take away from future development....so bye bye Wolfe Building :shoot:

It has only been empty for 15 years because CSU wanted it that way. This building held a, from what I heard, quite successful Kinko's until CSU bought the building in 1996, gave Kiinkos a year free rent to break the lease so that CSU could tear it down then to make way for a new bookstore. Its been fifteen years and CSU never got around to it, and they let the building fall into disrepair, and they never wanted to develop plans because they have always assumed it was coming down. This is demolition by neglect.

Cleveland State University to close portions of Rhodes Tower

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Cleveland State University officials plan to mothball portions of Rhodes Tower, the iconic symbol of the downtown campus, because it would cost too much to renovate the 40-year-old building.

 

The structure is a 17-story tower that sits atop the four-story Michael Schwartz Library. The tower would eventually be vacated except for a few floors housing information technology and computer services, officials said.

 

"It's an important building, but a very big building," CSU President Ronald Berkman said during a discussion of capital improvements at a recent trustee committee meeting.

 

But the design flaws in such a large structure "come back to haunt you," he said.

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2011/12/cleveland_state_university_wil_1.html

^Asbestos strikes again....I wonder if anybody had done a study how much this product has cost the US economy the past 30 years (judicial remedies, bankrupt companies, abatement in buildings to renovate or simply before they could be torn down, health costs just to name a few examples)....resources that could have been better spent I am sure (just think if all that $$$ had been applied to the US infrastructure)...not to get off topic.

I recall several meetings (mostly informal) where we discussed what would be possible for the tower. Its a hard building to work with. Re-facing was the option that was most desired, but most costly, too.

 

The only good alternative now would be to to keep it as it is and use the skinny windows as turrets to take out any future zombie in the apocalypse.

 

 

It's amazing to me that skinny windows like that used to be in style.  There's a medical building that I got to near St. Vincent that's in the process of taking out all their skinny windows and making them large ones.  I sit in the waiting room and peer out those skinny windows and think "Who thought this was a good idea?"  Was it an energy saving measure?

Yes, as were the incredibly low drop ceiling popular in buildings of the era.

Wolfe Music discussion tabled until January 12th. Other three buildings, Fenn, Howe, and Stager-Beckwith all are now landmarks.

 

 

Which one is the Stager-Bechwith?

Which one is the Stager-Bechwith?

 

 

I dont know what this has to do with Cleveland State though.

Yes nice job Zimzolla.  At least CSU agreed not to do anything in the meantime.  I never heard anything from CRS, so stayed out of it. 

 

W at the Trust

Jeff Johnson earned a few points in my book today. He did an excellent job.

Does anyone know what the proposed footprint is going to look like for the new health sciences building that will be going up on the Viking Hall/Wolfe Music block? I can't imagine that they'd take up the entire block with just one building. What's the plan for the entire block now?

Does anyone know what the proposed footprint is going to look like for the new health sciences building that will be going up on the Viking Hall/Wolfe Music block? I can't imagine that they'd take up the entire block with just one building. What's the plan for the entire block now?

 

It depends on how much they move into the new building. the old science buildings could easily fill up that space, so if they move almost all of the programs into the new building, they will easily be able to fill that lot up.

 

I hope that if the Wolfe Music building has to go, they atleast tear down Rascal house and peabody's. That way they can do it right and build something nice. But if those buildings are staying, then the Wolfe Music Building MUST stay!