Commuters and Residents can coexist. That is how CSU can be unique. Adding residential is great for people out of the area and people who want it, and want to live downtown. But due to its urban location, it will always have a large base of commuters. Therefor CSU is in a greater position for growth than a Kent or BGSU, since the commuter population is in place, and now they are working on residential which seems to be popular and demand is growing. Rural schools have the residential base already established and only have so many commuters to pull from. So if CSU can attract a residential population of Kent, and keep their commuter population, the school would be well off, and their would be amazing benefits to the city.

 

A healthy mix of residents and commuters is probably the best case and most realistic scenario for CSU.  I understand what the University is trying to do, and I don't necessarily disagree with it, I just wish it were being handled better, that's all.  And I assure you that I'm not the only one who feels like they haven't been handling it in the best manner possible.  I just think the idea that the University can, should, or will be primarily residential (at any cost) in the near future is unrealistic.

 

In regards to actual development ideas, I think it's essential that the University work with the city to create more of a campus feel, and that includes closing off one or two of the main thoroughfares (Prospect or Chester) that cut the campus into pieces.  This has been discussed before, but I think it needs to take a more prominent role in the discussion.

 

The University also needs better outdoor recreational fields for all of the residential students it's hoping to attract.  The rec center itself is a gem, but I think they need more than Krenzler for the potential growth of outdoor intramurals (i.e. softball) that should happen with more students living on campus.

I heard today that the Viking Hall site will include not just the new medical building, but a parking garage.  I know, it's just a rumor for now, though my source is reasonably reliable.

I heard today that the Viking Hall site will include not just the new medical building, but a parking garage.  I know, it's just a rumor for now, though my source is reasonably reliable.

 

Just what downtown needs, more parking.

What are you talking about MTS???!!! There's NO parking downtown.  I have to walk across the street to park hahaha...I'm sure this will make a certain member who expresses CSU displeasure in this board ecstatic. 

What are you talking about MTS???!!! There's NO parking downtown.  I have to walk across the street to park hahaha...I'm sure this will make a certain member who expresses CSU displeasure in this board ecstatic. 

 

The distance of the walk isn't really the problem.  It's the safety along that walk that I think is being overlooked.

 

Hopefully the rumor of another parking garage at that location turns out to be true.

I heard today that the Viking Hall site will include not just the new medical building, but a parking garage.  I know, it's just a rumor for now, though my source is reasonably reliable.

Is it initially going to be a parking lot for the time being after the demo is complete?  Or is it demo, then straight into construction?

What are you talking about MTS???!!! There's NO parking downtown.  I have to walk across the street to park hahaha...I'm sure this will make a certain member who expresses CSU displeasure in this board ecstatic. 

 

I'm going to guess that was sarcasm

What are you talking about MTS???!!! There's NO parking downtown.  I have to walk across the street to park hahaha...I'm sure this will make a certain member who expresses CSU displeasure in this board ecstatic. 

 

I'm going to guess that was sarcasm

Haha...would you expect anything other than from me ;)

What are you talking about MTS???!!! There's NO parking downtown.  I have to walk across the street to park hahaha...I'm sure this will make a certain member who expresses CSU displeasure in this board ecstatic. 

 

The distance of the walk isn't really the problem.  It's the safety along that walk that I think is being overlooked.

 

Hopefully the rumor of another parking garage at that location turns out to be true.

Well, good to see your opinion on closeness has changed.

Wouldnt the new building change the perceived safety of the walk, making the south garage much "closer" to the action. You just cross one street and are able to walk into the building and through to euclid avenue

For the parking lots on the periphery of the campus, which are safer, those north of Euclid (by Chester) or those south of Euclid (by Prospect)? By safer, I mean for the walk between the lot and the building, as well as for the car itself. 

By safer I'm really referring to dodging car (or bus) traffic when walking from the garage to campus--especially if in a hurry.  That's part of the reason why I'd kind of like to see Prospect (and potentially Chester, as well) closed off roughly from 24th to 18th.  I also do think that the safety (crime) of the South Garage campus area will improve if/when CSU starts developing that area further for daily campus activities.  As of right now most of the campus action is between Euclid and Chester, so the areas between Carnegie and Euclid are a bit disjointed from the main part of campus. 

^So the safer parking--in terms of crime--is on the north side (vs south side) of campus?

 

Regarding closing off Prospect or Chester, I don't really like the idea of closing any city street. I still hate that Rockwell was cut in two pieces just so the Plain Dealer could use one block for its own parking access. More cross streets and/or signaled crosswalks would be preferable IMO for Prospect and/or Chester.

 

^So the safer parking--in terms of crime--is on the north side (vs south side) of campus?

 

Regarding closing off Prospect or Chester, I don't really like the idea of closing any city street. I still hate that Rockwell was cut in two pieces just so the Plain Dealer could use one block for its own parking access. More cross streets and/or signaled crosswalks would be preferable IMO for Prospect and/or Chester.

 

 

I don't know if the northern part of campus is safer, I don't pay that close attention to the crime statistics or bulletins.

 

In regards to closing streets off, if that's not an option, they should at least try to do some things to slow down the traffic along Prospect and even Chester.  I know that the speed limit on those streets in the campus area is 25 mph, but people usually drive much faster when they can.  With the new developments and retail, maybe including some street parking (like you see along Coventry or Mayfield in Littly Italy) would make it easier for pedestrians and force drivers to slow down a bit, while also giving the campus a more unified feel.

Will C.S.U. bridge Euclid to connect the new Medical project with the main part of the campus?

^I would be okay with "dipping" avenues and crossing them with a very wide pedestrian bridge (as wide as a street) that is not a 'catwalk', to make a more unified campus.  something like this: http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/12823840.jpg  .

^I would be okay with "dipping" avenues and crossing them with a very wide pedestrian bridge (as wide as a street) that is not a 'catwalk', to make a more unified campus.  something like this: http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/12823840.jpg  .

 

Have you been to Columbia to see this butt Ugly eye sore in person?  Have you walked under it?  How does it relate to the street?  If not I wonder why you posted it?  I would not recommend a bridge or Plaza over a street.  I think they are anti pedestrian.

^ i don't like it either, but would take that over closing the street altogether. as I initially said, I prefer more cross streets and/or signaled crosswalks.

I'm not a campus regular, but is it really a problem crossing Euclid (or Prospect or Chester) at the corner using the crosswalk?

I'm not a campus regular, but is it really a problem crossing Euclid (or Prospect or Chester) at the corner using the crosswalk?

 

The lights can be long sometimes.  I don't think it's a huge problem, particularly coming from the north side of campus, but I would still like to see something done to unify things a bit more.

Peabody's behind rascal house would also be a property needed to build on the entire block, and the rascal house is owned by the brother of USA Parking Frango. I don't know why its holding up progress, I think purposely leaving a building vacant for two decades because of on again, off again plans to demolish as holding back progress. Kinkos had a good business there, but CSU after buying the building offered them a year rent free to break the lease and have them out after that year. Back in the 90's, this was going to be the site of a new bookstore. CSU left it vacant then when those plans fell through, and allowed it to decay to the state it is in now.

 

Besides, the Health Professions building could easily fit on the footprint of Viking Hall with full buildout to the street. It could be a nice corner building that wraps down 22nd and onto Prospect. Instead the building they will build will sit on the middle of the property like the business building and have a nice useless grass strip in front and to the sides, and take out two healthy businesses. What a loss Peabody's would be to an area attempting to be a college town.

 

Is that the redevelopment plan for the Viking Hall site?

I'm not a campus regular, but is it really a problem crossing Euclid (or Prospect or Chester) at the corner using the crosswalk?

 

The lights can be long sometimes.  I don't think it's a huge problem, particularly coming from the north side of campus, but I would still like to see something done to unify things a bit more.

 

Isn't that what the "green spines" in the masterplan are for?  That's why they took a section out of the block on Euclid between 18th and 21st, no?

^^I don't think any serious site plans have been released, so Zimzolla was probably just speculating, and sadly, he be proved correct.

 

I'm not a campus regular, but is it really a problem crossing Euclid (or Prospect or Chester) at the corner using the crosswalk?

 

The lights can be long sometimes.  I don't think it's a huge problem, particularly coming from the north side of campus, but I would still like to see something done to unify things a bit more.

 

That makes sense.  Enhancing the pedestrian experience along E22 between Prospect and Euclid should certainly be a priority of the architect for this new project if it's a major route between the southern parts of campus (and parking) and the main academic buildings.  Perhaps an arcaded walkway to provide some shelter from the elements.  Much better, IMHO, than hamster tubes.

^I would be okay with "dipping" avenues and crossing them with a very wide pedestrian bridge (as wide as a street) that is not a 'catwalk', to make a more unified campus.  something like this: http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/12823840.jpg  .

 

Good gravy!  Talk about over-engineering a solution to a nonexistent problem (I assure you that CSU students can cross streets, especially one as traffic tamed as Euclid.)  We wonder why crap costs too much money!

 

edit- also, CSU already has this over E 21st and 22nd St in the middle of main campus.  They make for the most unpleasant spaces in Downtown Cleveland.

The current ones are okay because of their location, and because of their potential to create a great green space in the center of campus. It would be terrible on a major street though.

Peabody's behind rascal house would also be a property needed to build on the entire block, and the rascal house is owned by the brother of USA Parking Frango. I don't know why its holding up progress, I think purposely leaving a building vacant for two decades because of on again, off again plans to demolish as holding back progress. Kinkos had a good business there, but CSU after buying the building offered them a year rent free to break the lease and have them out after that year. Back in the 90's, this was going to be the site of a new bookstore. CSU left it vacant then when those plans fell through, and allowed it to decay to the state it is in now.

 

Besides, the Health Professions building could easily fit on the footprint of Viking Hall with full buildout to the street. It could be a nice corner building that wraps down 22nd and onto Prospect. Instead the building they will build will sit on the middle of the property like the business building and have a nice useless grass strip in front and to the sides, and take out two healthy businesses. What a loss Peabody's would be to an area attempting to be a college town.

 

Is that the redevelopment plan for the Viking Hall site?

 

That is CSU's best case scenario, but that hinges on their ability to obtain that property.

With the relatively non-existent traffic on Prospect, the Pedestrian-friendly crossings all along Euclid, and the relatively short lights on Chester.... there is absolutely 0 problem with crossing the streets at CSU as they are now.  I don't think I've had to wait to cross a street in months.

^So the safer parking--in terms of crime--is on the north side (vs south side) of campus?

 

Regarding closing off Prospect or Chester, I don't really like the idea of closing any city street. I still hate that Rockwell was cut in two pieces just so the Plain Dealer could use one block for its own parking access. More cross streets and/or signaled crosswalks would be preferable IMO for Prospect and/or Chester.

 

 

I don't know if the northern part of campus is safer, I don't pay that close attention to the crime statistics or bulletins.

 

In regards to closing streets off, if that's not an option, they should at least try to do some things to slow down the traffic along Prospect and even Chester.  I know that the speed limit on those streets in the campus area is 25 mph, but people usually drive much faster when they can.  With the new developments and retail, maybe including some street parking (like you see along Coventry or Mayfield in Littly Italy) would make it easier for pedestrians and force drivers to slow down a bit, while also giving the campus a more unified feel.

 

the key isn't closing streets but in reducing the crossing distances from curb to curb, prospect is ~50 feet wide by using road design techniques it would be possible to shave 16 feet off of the crossing distances, and slow/calm traffic as well.    you do this by moving from 4 12 foot lane to 2 travel lanes one turning lanes, with 2 8 foot parking lanes on each side. of the street, by adding bumpouts at the crosswalks,  this effectively shrinks the road and makes the driver behave like he or she is on a narrower road even though the lanes are approximately the same width.

 

the transit cenet is an obstacle for pedestrians walking from the garage to campus, because there isn't an formal sidewalk, you feel like you are walking in the street.  and 22nd Street is pretty busy.  My solution would be to either raise the walking path way 6 inches above the road way, kinda like place the pedestrians on a pedestal, and or create more of buffer from the roadway by moving the path further from the road.  the obstacle of course if RTA, and those buses need to have greater turning radii and limits on the approach and departure angles.

 

the real obsitcle to using the soouth garage is ther eisn't anything around it.  the new building will help in that regard

With the relatively non-existent traffic on Prospect, the Pedestrian-friendly crossings all along Euclid, and the relatively short lights on Chester.... there is absolutely 0 problem with crossing the streets at CSU as they are now.  I don't think I've had to wait to cross a street in months.

 

the crossing distances on chester are too great.

 

CSU in coordination with the Langston development is reducing Chester from 6 to 4 lanes by using bumpouts and on street parking this should reduce crossing distances by 33%.  reducing crossing distances means the cycling of light for pedestrians can be reduced allowing traffic to move better even with the lane reduction.

 

the elephant in the room at CSU are the freeways know as east 21st and east 22nd, they are far too wide for the traffic volume.  both should be reduce to 2 lanes with 2 turning lanes and one thru lane on 22nd and Chester, with 21st being 2 lanes only from Chester to euclid and 2 thru lanes and one left turning lane on 21st at Euclid.

 

with the nominal lane width being reduced from 12-13 feet to 11feet for traffic calming purposes.

 

IMO.

 

Nice posts biker16.  I said it earlier in the thread and I still think that the locations of the RTA station and the parking garage probably should have been switched.

^So the safer parking--in terms of crime--is on the north side (vs south side) of campus?

 

Regarding closing off Prospect or Chester, I don't really like the idea of closing any city street. I still hate that Rockwell was cut in two pieces just so the Plain Dealer could use one block for its own parking access. More cross streets and/or signaled crosswalks would be preferable IMO for Prospect and/or Chester.

 

 

I don't know if the northern part of campus is safer, I don't pay that close attention to the crime statistics or bulletins.

 

In regards to closing streets off, if that's not an option, they should at least try to do some things to slow down the traffic along Prospect and even Chester.  I know that the speed limit on those streets in the campus area is 25 mph, but people usually drive much faster when they can.  With the new developments and retail, maybe including some street parking (like you see along Coventry or Mayfield in Littly Italy) would make it easier for pedestrians and force drivers to slow down a bit, while also giving the campus a more unified feel.

 

It would at least be an effective means of slimming the roadway, but the problem with relying on street parking to do that is that you have so many feet of clearance at intersections that widens the crossing width at intersections, exactly where the crossing widths should instead be narrowest...

^So the safer parking--in terms of crime--is on the north side (vs south side) of campus?

 

Regarding closing off Prospect or Chester, I don't really like the idea of closing any city street. I still hate that Rockwell was cut in two pieces just so the Plain Dealer could use one block for its own parking access. More cross streets and/or signaled crosswalks would be preferable IMO for Prospect and/or Chester.

 

 

I don't know if the northern part of campus is safer, I don't pay that close attention to the crime statistics or bulletins.

 

In regards to closing streets off, if that's not an option, they should at least try to do some things to slow down the traffic along Prospect and even Chester.  I know that the speed limit on those streets in the campus area is 25 mph, but people usually drive much faster when they can.  With the new developments and retail, maybe including some street parking (like you see along Coventry or Mayfield in Littly Italy) would make it easier for pedestrians and force drivers to slow down a bit, while also giving the campus a more unified feel.

 

It would at least be an effective means of slimming the roadway, but the problem with relying on street parking to do that is that you have so many feet of clearance at intersections that widens the crossing width at intersections, exactly where the crossing widths should instead be narrowest...

 

The parking lane could end (curb cuts back in) right before the intersection to narrow the street up to the through lane width.  I believe Indianapolis does this on some streets.

50 ft

 

| 8' parking | 11' travel lane | 11' travel lane | 8' parking | 5' bike | 5' bike |

It sounds like the suggestion is to "choke" the traffic on Chester from 3 lanes each way (during rush hour) to one or two between East 24th and East 17th.  That certainly seems like it would calm the traffic and make the area more pedestrian friendly.  I wonder what the city would think of that?

It sounds like the suggestion is to "choke" the traffic on Chester from 3 lanes each way (during rush hour) to one or two between East 24th and East 17th.  That certainly seems like it would calm the traffic and make the area more pedestrian friendly.  I wonder what the city would think of that?

\

 

I'm sure there will be howls from commuters that use Chester from the Heights or parts east exit at the innerbelt and head west there.

50 ft

 

| 8' parking | 11' travel lane | 11' travel lane | 8' parking | 5' bike | 5' bike |

 

Well with an 11 ft travel lane you're not really accomplishing much slimming except for getting rid of excess lane capacity...unless there is regulation dictating lane widths somewhere? Some cities have that problem, but for example, 9 ft lanes are standard for major avenues in Midtown Tulsa (large area between 11th-51st) and it really gets the Hummers and Land Rovers to slow away down..

50 ft

 

| 8' parking | 11' travel lane | 11' travel lane | 8' parking | 5' bike | 5' bike |

 

Well with an 11 ft travel lane you're not really accomplishing much slimming except for getting rid of excess lane capacity...unless there is regulation dictating lane widths somewhere? Some cities have that problem, but for example, 9 ft lanes are standard for major avenues in Midtown Tulsa (large area between 11th-51st) and it really gets the Hummers and Land Rovers to slow away down..

 

The average bus or semi truck is 8'4" wide I am all for narrow lanes but not that much.  The magic of traffic, calming is more about creating a feeling of claustphobia for driver, not that does not require supper narrow lanes to do that.

 

ODOT will not let a state route like Chester or prospect have lanes narrower than 11 feet.

 

The most benfifcial road way feature for pedestrians is on street parking  that provides a buffer between traffic and the sidewalk, plus provides a running effect for drivers to reduce speed.

 

In the end I think we are on the same page, and the university has been talking city traffic engineers on how balance the new developments on campus with the editing traffic patterns, and what effect the changes on campus are having to the traffic patterns. Then find the funds to move the curbs will be easier.

Chester is actually a US route (322) just like Euclid, but Prospect is neither a US route nor a state route (same as Carnegie).

 

 

Taken late today downtown, between rain storms...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Awesome, thanks!

 

Excited to see the center block rise to 5 stories.

 

Taken late today downtown, between rain storms...

 

I generally prefer new construction over repurposing older buildings... but those vinyl sided buildings look out of place. The architecture and strange setback from the street look horrible. Maybe it's just this side of the new buildings. Most of the others don't look this bad.

See, now there's a decent view.8-)

 

What amazes me most about the construction are the "balconies" that extend all of 3 inches away from the the doors leading to them.  What exactly do you do with that besides smoke a cigarette and toss the butt to the sidewalk below?

^^I can agree that the siding looks out of place.  But that setback on the sidestreet is five feet at most..... whether it is there or not, the street presence and interaction is the same

Is this designed to make kids from Medina feel comfortable?

 

Always good to see a need for new construction in an exciting district, but this looks and is pretty cheap. The urban principles are sound, though, which is the plus side of this project.

 

The "balconies" are french style windows. That allows you to lean out and smoke, yes, but also have a cup of coffee or sit next to it and read. Its a valid design feature from hundreds of years ago.. which appears to be the "look" the "designers" were going after ;) ok but seriously now its a good thing to have some ability to interact with the street from your apartment.

I did see two people on sitting on them the other day. Or what appeared to be sitting.

Were these designed to have the same feel as the new dorms on euclid?  make it seem like its a part of the university.

Also known as a "balconet" or "Juliet balcony."

 

Were these designed to have the same feel as the new dorms on euclid?  make it seem like its a part of the university.

 

I also think these hhave trhe same feel as Euclid Commmons.

The difference is that the Commons are ugly, and these are not, imo. At least they're both built up to the street. Thank goodness.

A little update on the Langston and CSU in general. I'm now a junior here, and I have never seen campus this busy after school hours. It's a great sight to see. From An occupancy perspective, and my sources are credible due to the fact that I'm currently shopping around for an apartment, the Langston is completely full already. This includes the buildings still under construction which have a waiting list. Fenn tower, Euclid commons, and Heritage Hall are all 100% full. Walker, 1900, university lofts, university studios all have waiting lists as well. Reserve and Chesterfield have a couple rooms open, but that's it. I know a few people who are starting to move into the western part of Asiatown. Just a hunch, but from what I'm seeing, look at Asiatown as the direction in which CSU's residential population will begin to expand instead of North towards the lake. I predict that area will stay artists and professionals. Either way, let's get to building!

Also known as a "balconet" or "Juliet balcony."

 

Note to others:  Don't google image search 'balconet' at work!

 

I understand the concept better now.  I can understand why they went with these since true balconies on a college campus can sometimes be....hazardous to what's below.  And I think it's pretty clear now that most of the residents will be undergrads, despite the intial marketing blurbs.