good lord i know college bldgs are generally pretty bad, but this is just really lazy, anti-architecture. ah well its only renders, we'll see. maybe a brick will fall on somebody in charge's head and snap them out of this.

 

Everyone, write to the President of CSU and the appropriate councilperson. Maybe something can be done to change this awful and ugly plan.

Agreed -  this design & site layout is appalling. 

How could CSU allow this to happen? 

 

I hope city hall doesn't just roll over and do nothing. (again)

 

This looks like something they pulled from their generic portfolio; made a few tweaks here and there, and passed it off as a carefully thought out design.   

Agreed -  this design & site layout is appalling. 

How could CSU allow this to happen? 

 

I hope city hall doesn't just roll over and do nothing. (again)

 

 

City Planning (or City Hall in general) has no say regarding the design, or site plan for any project on state owned land. CSU is only presenting to CPC to be nice. That's how it was when I worked at CSU, and likely still is. Sure, the CSU Architects office might take some input from the Commission, but they are not required to act on it.

If they were going to use so little of the block for the new building, why the eff did they spend state money buying out Peabodys and Rascal House?  This site plan shown in the last image posted by KJP is far preferable to the uninspired crap on the table now, IMHO.

 

By the way, I love how this project's generous front yard will highlight the beautiful side facade of the building at the SW corner of Euclid and East 21st: https://www.google.com/maps?q=Cleveland,+OH&hl=en&ll=41.501547,-81.675469&spn=0.001848,0.004393&sll=42.378329,-71.145744&sspn=0.058332,0.205994&oq=CLev&hnear=Cleveland,+Cuyahoga,+Ohio&t=m&z=18&layer=c&cbll=41.501668,-81.675548&panoid=qUO3O00m4tbBauSsJjDYKw&cbp=12,206.73,,0,-13.19

 

That's some beautiful green space making there, CSU.

 

 

I know I've read comments regarding this in the past page or two, but let me re-remind everyone: these set-backs CSU has with some of the new buildings are all part of the master plan. It has always been the intention to create this "green ribbon" along Euclid Avenue. Many of the other new buildings have been built right up to the edge. I see this as a continuation of the ribbon.

If they were going to use so little of the block for the new building, why the eff did they spend state money buying out Peabodys and Rascal House?  This site plan shown in the last image posted by KJP is far preferable to the uninspired crap on the table now, IMHO.

 

By the way, I love how this project's generous front yard will highlight the beautiful side facade of the building at the SW corner of Euclid and East 21st: https://www.google.com/maps?q=Cleveland,+OH&hl=en&ll=41.501547,-81.675469&spn=0.001848,0.004393&sll=42.378329,-71.145744&sspn=0.058332,0.205994&oq=CLev&hnear=Cleveland,+Cuyahoga,+Ohio&t=m&z=18&layer=c&cbll=41.501668,-81.675548&panoid=qUO3O00m4tbBauSsJjDYKw&cbp=12,206.73,,0,-13.19

 

That's some beautiful green space making there, CSU.

 

 

Totally ignoring the existing and historic streetscape. CSU is terrible. They learn nothing.

 

This is EUCLID AVE. It requires a higher standard.

^^It's certainly in keeping with the horrible "green ribbon" idea, but the more recent stuff you posted suggested that CSU might be heading in a different direction for this site.  Obviously the building use changed over the past couple years, but that decision seems independent from the planning philosophy.

 

[crap - i lost all of my original post - gonna try to remember what i had earlier]

 

CSU has over $190 million of planned development through 2014. This first image shows the extent of this plan -an update to the previous master plan. Most of it we already know about; the basketball pavilion was new to me.

 

 

 

The second image shows a rendering of what the health science building, or Global Sustainability Center, could look like. Notice how the footprint maintains the Euclid "ribbon" (undulating pockets of pedestrian friendly green space) that has always been part of the mater plan.

 

 

 

I just did a parcel search on the group of parcels bordered by Euclid Ave to the north, East 22nd to the east, Prospect Ave to south and East 21st to the west. They are all owned by CSU directly or the State of Ohio. That is, except for the parking lot adjacent to Rascal House (owned by Rascal House Inc) and the Rascal House complex itself (owned by Frangos). I bring this up because previously I stated it was not in the immediate plans of CSU to obtain these parcels - I stand corrected as I now know this to not be the case.

^Now that I like...especially like how it respects the church with the lower height and massing on Euclid even though it hits the sidewalk.

The building design is really not that bad considering it's Pelli. I recall most people on this board thinking it was the best proposal during the short list. Take a look at Pelli's portfolio and it fits in with the rest of their work.

 

...and if you think this is bad, wait until a design is released for the Convention Center Hotel.

Does Akron U have a green ribbon?  How about Cincy?  Not to put them in the same league, but does OSU have a green ribbon?  These are all colleges in urban areas.  Why does CSU insist on this as something which will draw in students?  How does a green ribbon add to campus life? How much programming is done on the added green space (when I was at Urban Affairs, there wasn't much done at all on the lawn fronting E. 17th).  How does this help CSU compete with other colleges around the state for students?  Because as a planning element, I'm sorry- but this seems to go against what the College of Urban Affairs teaches within it's own walls. 

The building design is really not that bad considering it's Pelli. I recall most people on this board thinking it was the best proposal during the short list. Take a look at Pelli's portfolio and it fits in with the rest of their work.

 

...and if you think this is bad, wait until a design is released for the Convention Center Hotel.

 

This building design (or at least this site plan) wasn't part of Pelli's initial proposal.

Does Akron U have a green ribbon?  How about Cincy?  Not to put them in the same league, but does OSU have a green ribbon?  These are all colleges in urban areas.  Why does CSU insist on this as something which will draw in students?  How does a green ribbon add to campus life? How much programming is done on the added green space (when I was at Urban Affairs, there wasn't much done at all on the lawn fronting E. 17th).  How does this help CSU compete with other colleges around the state for students?  Because as a planning element, I'm sorry- but this seems to go against what the College of Urban Affairs teaches within it's own walls. 

 

It increases their landscape maintenance costs to be more in line with Kent State's.  :-)

This building design (or at least this site plan) wasn't part of Pelli's initial proposal.

Actually it was:

http://blog.cleveland.com/architecture/2012/10/did_csu_and_neomed_play_it_too.html

 

For some reason people have a notion in their head that an initial design concept is a final product. 

 

Does Akron U have a green ribbon?  How about Cincy?  Not to put them in the same league, but does OSU have a green ribbon?  These are all colleges in urban areas.  Why does CSU insist on this as something which will draw in students?  How does a green ribbon add to campus life? How much programming is done on the added green space (when I was at Urban Affairs, there wasn't much done at all on the lawn fronting E. 17th).  How does this help CSU compete with other colleges around the state for students?  Because as a planning element, I'm sorry- but this seems to go against what the College of Urban Affairs teaches within it's own walls. 

 

The University of Akron just completed a revised Master Plan which in fact does include greening through the center of campus. They also do not have a major thoroughfare going through the middle of their campus. In fact, they eliminated streets going through parts of their campus some years back.

Either way, it's a bad comparison.

I understand that designs change, but jeez, this seems like a complete betrayal of their initial design, and really of anyone's hopes for something architecturally significant.  I wonder what Litt's take will be now?

The "green ribbon" was only supposed to go along the northern side of Euclid, and was more a recognition of the setbacks that already existed.  And how are they planning to build a green ribbon along the south side of Euclid, when no other building along that stretch has a setback?

Is it possible that people are confusing the green ribbon planned for the Clinic (on the south side of Euclid and mostly behind the street facing buildings) with CSU's plans for a green ribbon?

Is it possible that people are confusing the green ribbon planned for the Clinic (on the south side of Euclid and mostly behind the street facing buildings) with CSU's plans for a green ribbon?

 

It's actually called the "Green Space Network" and has different areas; Euclid, Main Plaza, North / South Spine

Refer to the 2010 Master Plan located at: http://www.csuohio.edu/offices/architect/

The "green ribbon" was only supposed to go along the northern side of Euclid, and was more a recognition of the setbacks that already existed.  And how are they planning to build a green ribbon along the south side of Euclid, when no other building along that stretch has a setback?

 

Good point - It really was envisioned for only the north side of Euclid.

Here is a direct link to the Master plan from 2009/10

http://www.csuohio.edu/offices/architect/MP_MASTER.pptx

Green Ribbons are terrible. Greenspace at Cleveland state should be contained in the center of the block in courtyards. Courtyards are active, green ribbons(large lawns) are not.

Not pictured is the deck with propane grill in the back yard.

^ Hahah... if I don't laugh, I'll cry...

 

This really is very disappointing. I thought Cleveland State was finally beginning to understand the importance of density (Euclid Commons, Julka Hall, Langston Apartments, etc.). I'm still hoping we can make a change here. According to the CSU website, President Berkman's contact is

 

Ms. Shane Connor

Phone: 216.687.3544

[email protected]

 

You know what to do, guys. And don't be afraid to let Pelli Clarke Pelli know what you think of their design :)

This building design (or at least this site plan) wasn't part of Pelli's initial proposal.

Actually it was:

http://blog.cleveland.com/architecture/2012/10/did_csu_and_neomed_play_it_too.html

 

For some reason people have a notion in their head that an initial design concept is a final product. 

 

Sorry, I meant that the site plan shown in the initial Pelli proposal bears no resemblance to the current scheme.  Obviously the initial proposal means little, which is why it's probably not relevant that many folks here preferred that entry among all the finalists.

This building design (or at least this site plan) wasn't part of Pelli's initial proposal.

Actually it was:

http://blog.cleveland.com/architecture/2012/10/did_csu_and_neomed_play_it_too.html

 

For some reason people have a notion in their head that an initial design concept is a final product. 

 

Sorry, I meant that the site plan shown in the initial Pelli proposal bears no resemblance to the current scheme.  Obviously the initial proposal means little, which is why it's probably not relevant that many folks here preferred that entry among all the finalists.

 

I'm thinking they must have scaled the program back once they saw the return on investment. As part of the proposal process the team had to also present a business plan for the building and associated activities.

Not pictured is the deck with propane grill in the back yard.

 

This is great, one question though, is everyone allowed to use the bball hoop or just students? Its a nice community  touch if everyone can use it.

This is insanely disappointing. Setting aside the demo that was required for this project, and setting aside the obsession with green space on a campus that already has a pretty significant amount of greenspace, and setting aside the addition of a small surface parking area (definitely not in the Master Plan) across the street from a large surface parking lot ... Why wouldn't you at least design a building with a more linear design so that you could combine those green spaces into something meaningful??? If you dropped the L-shape in favor of something rectilinear that fronted both Euclid and Prospect on the western part of the parcel, you could have a really lovely park running across the street from the Trinity Campus and providing a programmable space and pedestrian corridor between the Student Center and the transit center? Or reverse that configuration and put the building on the east and have a park running from Wolstein to the Student Center, advancing the Master Plan goal of creating a north-south spine from Wolstein AND increasing the likelihood that something gets built on that huge parking lot or that it becomes an extension of that park as well.

 

That helps maintain a sense of street frontage and addresses one of the big problems with CSU's existing greenspace ... That it generally is not large enough for programming, and that it's generally not laid out with activation in mind. A big lawn and benches do not a campus greenspace make ... In my time at CSU, I can't recall ever seeing anyone, for instance, use the relatively large lawn adjacent to the Levin College.

 

Instead ... Frowny face :(

China Sea is going into a portion of the 1900 Building on Euclid Ave. across from CSU.

 

I heard a Menchies.

 

Not a Menchies, but a Lemonberry.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/dining/index.ssf/2013/09/the_langston_at_cleveland_stat.html

 

"Cleveland State University students and staff, and other workers in the area of Chester Avenue at East 22nd Street will find a couple more places to grab a meal or snack by year's end. Wrapz Pita Bar and Lemonberry Frozen Yogurt will open in The Langston, a mixed-use residential complex near the university campus."

lemonberry is better, anyways

lemonberry is better, anyways

 

Wayyyyy better...easily the best around NEO IMO.  This is great news.

I've been focusing my displeasure on the site plan of awful new health building, but I sort of forgot to complain about this project displacing Peabody's. So to summarize, CSU is going to build a vibrant college neighborhood by replacing an active concert venue with grass.  Genius.

 

I'm happy this is working out for the Agora, though.

http://www.cleveland.com/popmusic/index.ssf/2013/09/peabodys_moving_its_shows_to_a.html

Speculation on the future of the Wolstein Center was moved here

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,28691.msg676290.html#msg676290

Speculation on the future of the Wolstein Center was moved here

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,28691.msg676290.html#msg676290

 

Shouldn't at least the initial article stay here though? Since it was clear from the trustees that they are GOING to do something about the Wolstein Center, just don't know what yet.

No.  If they decide to demolish/renovate/repurpose the Wolstein Center, then it becomes a development topic.

 

An awfully large piece of land, and a sprawled-out short building coming to downtown's university...lost opportunity, imo.

 

 

^kinda hard to see but UGH....and this is after a competition.

What, no skywalk?  :cry:  :wink:

What a joke. The land acquisition budget for this project was a total wast of tax dollars. And all for that bla box.  Awesome.

do not recommend stretch the photos out to see the render. lazy outer loop garbage. does csu even architecture?

 

Request for Qualifications (Architect / Engineer)

F110-02v0813 Publish Date: October 23,

Project Name: Cleveland State Master Plan

 

Cleveland State University is seeking proposals from qualified Professional Campus Planner/Designer Services for the development of a comprehensive Master Plan, includi ng Landscape and Signage Plans, for its urban campus. The planning process is to be integrated with the University 's mission, values, and expectations statements. The planning process is to be inclusive, incorporating the input of a variet y of internal and external constituencies. The planning process is to be data-driven, relying on a thorough analysis of the University's existing l and and facilities, followed by the specific targeting of space needs and other opportunities for development throughout the main campus.

 

The project will have three phases.

Phase 1 is gathering of data, interviews and facility conditions assessments including environmental.

Phase 2 will be setting goals and objectives, visioning and priority setting.

Phase 3 will be developing the final plan including site utilization, and phasing.

 

The selected Consultant Team should be qualified to develop physical master planning scenarios; development guidelines, assess space needs; develop campus signage/way-finding; develop landscape master plan scenarios; conduct circulation analyses; evaluate infrastructure needs; assess bicycle, pedestrian and vehicular circulation; develop broad phasing scenarios; and build consensus among the campus community. The Master Plan should also include efforts toward sustainable energy, conservation, “green” building design, and updated ADA requirements. Additionally,the Master Plan will address issues and decisions facing the University related to STUDENT SUCCESS, STEM, and RESEARCH in the (0-5 years) the short term, (5-10 years) mid-term, and (10-15 years) time frames.

 

The University will look to the successful team to develop an engaging and highly inclusive process. The team will be asked to provide a schedule and all expertise needed to develop a comprehensive Campus Master Plan.

 

http://ofcc.ohio.gov/Portals/0/Documents/OhioReg/10232013%20RFQ%20CLS-131352.pdf

Discussion of new student housing project moved here:

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,14163.msg686188/topicseen.html#new

NEOMED groundbreaking today.

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2013/12/cleveland_state_university_set.html#incart_river_default

That lawn is terrible!!!

 

If anything move the building up to the street and you'd still have a smaller square lawn on the eastern edge. It almost looks like they could have built this building with the same exact footprint without even touching the buildings they demolished (not saying that would be a good idea or would ever happen)

Too bad they couldn't have held off on this project till the next master plan team could come on board and kick some sense into CSU.

 

Design considerations aside, I just don't understand why, in this time of supposed budget scarcity, CSU spends so extravagantly on land it doesn't intend to use.

I can't believe CSU actually think that's acceptable. Who is going to want go to Maxine Goodman Levin when CSU is approval horrible anti-urban stuff like this?

^I highly doubt this project is going to have any affect on the enrollment numbers

I actually do not mind the grass and the setback. The student center is technically set back and so is the rest of the CSU buildings all the way down to the business center. Remember this is a University Campus. I am all for density and buildings right next to the street to create a bustling area but this area is bustling and has many walkers anyways. If you walk past there or drive by there during classes it is like a mini new York city feel. If the building is setback I do not feel that this will have any affect on anything. Students will still need to walk to the building.

I actually do not mind the grass and the setback. The student center is technically set back and so is the rest of the CSU buildings all the way down to the business center. Remember this is a University Campus. I am all for density and buildings right next to the street to create a bustling area but this area is bustling and has many walkers anyways. If you walk past there or drive by there during classes it is like a mini new York city feel. If the building is setback I do not feel that this will have any affect on anything. Students will still need to walk to the building.

 

I agree if on the other side, but this is on the side that still (generally) has the buildings up to the street, so its very stupid and short sighted to ruin (and frankly not take advantage of) the continuity of the existing street wall.   

CSU misses the boat with green space. Nobody uses there little lawns, but their courtyards are packed in comparison. Move the building up and create a courtyard.