I agree with you w28th, including your assessment of Gwathmey.

"Open this city up to design competitions and you will see a marked rise in the level of architecture."

 

Now that, I definitely agree with.

I agree as well.

There is one problem, however, with a competition for CSU. The city has no say in the design of any of the buildings. It is handled through the state. (Same with the public school system and their lack of LEED design standards) The only reason CSU ever presents new construction to the City Hall is out of respect - for lack of a better word. At least all new construction on campus will be at least LEED Gold.

 

I have been selected to represent the students (with one other person) on the design board. I will do my best to forward any concepts to UO for comment. I have come to appreciate most of the forumer's opinions. (I'll leave that be)

Agree with May Day.  How can we criticize a proposed design that does not even exist.

 

It appears that the challenge with the project will be coming up with a proposal that will be outstanding despite a limited budget (keeping costs under control is not such a bad idea.  We are always so open to spending other people's money on this board...in this case student fees which can be used for a wide variety of things).  This will clearly test their metal.  Let's see what they come up with.

It's not neccessarily critisism, it's just stating the simple fact is that Gwathmey has done nothing progressive since his "New York Five Days" (late 60's early 70's group of NYC young architects, Richard Meyer, Gwathmey, Michael Graves, and I can't think of the other two).  Generally, firms don't suddenly become something they aren't overnight, especially with a tight budget.  Which by the way doesn't mean a cutting edge, progressive design solution isn't possible.

Why was Gwathmey chosen? I generally believe that Schwartz makes good choices, maybe this was the best decision given the circumstances. I tend to believe that he could have gotten someone better for the job, but what do I know? Musky, any word on the selection process?

Agree with May Day.  How can we criticize a proposed design that does not even exist.

 

It appears that the challenge with the project will be coming up with a proposal that will be outstanding despite a limited budget (keeping costs under control is not such a bad idea.  We are always so open to spending other people's money on this board...in this case student fees which can be used for a wide variety of things).  This will clearly test their metal.  Let's see what they come up with.

 

w28th's criticism is of the selection of designer, not of a proposed design, so I don't think its premature or unfair in any way.  Gwathmey is uneven at best.  See, e.g., the hideous vertical suburban office park (which is actually residential) that now blights my former 'hood at http://www.archpaper.com/images/Gwathmey.jpg.

Wow, what a piece of garbage.  No connection to the urban fabric around it.  I'd say typical modernist, but that monstrosity is a juxtaposition of about eight different "styles" (style:  not something to be proud of in architecture).  Postmodernism meets International style meets modernism meets whatever that piece of shit is at the base, (is that E.I.F.S. on there?)  What an embarrassment.  Hopefully he doesn't get that flamboyant for the student center.  I'm a bit scared now.

Agree with May Day.  How can we criticize a proposed design that does not even exist.

 

It appears that the challenge with the project will be coming up with a proposal that will be outstanding despite a limited budget (keeping costs under control is not such a bad idea.  We are always so open to spending other people's money on this board...in this case student fees which can be used for a wide variety of things).  This will clearly test their metal.  Let's see what they come up with.

 

w28th's criticism is of the selection of designer, not of a proposed design, so I don't think its premature or unfair in any way.  Gwathmey is uneven at best.  See, e.g., the hideous vertical suburban office park (which is actually residential) that now blights my former 'hood at http://www.archpaper.com/images/Gwathmey.jpg.

 

Where is that? In New York?

Agree with May Day.  How can we criticize a proposed design that does not even exist.

 

It appears that the challenge with the project will be coming up with a proposal that will be outstanding despite a limited budget (keeping costs under control is not such a bad idea.  We are always so open to spending other people's money on this board...in this case student fees which can be used for a wide variety of things).  This will clearly test their metal.  Let's see what they come up with.

 

w28th's criticism is of the selection of designer, not of a proposed design, so I don't think its premature or unfair in any way.  Gwathmey is uneven at best.  See, e.g., the hideous vertical suburban office park (which is actually residential) that now blights my former 'hood at http://www.archpaper.com/images/Gwathmey.jpg.

 

Where is that? In New York?

 

Yeah its the Astor Place Condo.  www.astorplacenyc.com

 

Yup- in the East Village at a pivotal location.  The site had sat empty for years as a parking lot (sort of the East Village equivalent of our public square site).  It is right across from the very cool and very old and very massive Cooper Union.  Rather comforting is the fact that the units sold much more slowly than expected even in the incredibly hot NYC market.

 

Quite pefectly a Chase bank moved into the base to complete the bland office park effect.

 

All to say, fingers crossed that Gwathmey and company (and their client) come up with something a little better this time- Musky, we're counting on you!

Yup- in the East Village at a pivotal location.  The site had sat empty for years as a parking lot (sort of the East Village equivalent of our public square site).  It is right across from the very cool and very old and very massive Cooper Union.  Rather comforting is the fact that the units sold much more slowly than expected even in the incredibly hot NYC market.

 

Quite pefectly a Chase bank moved into the base to complete the bland office park effect.

 

All to say, fingers crossed that Gwathmey and company (and their client) come up with something a little better this time- Musky, we're counting on you!

 

I agree, the building is in the wrong place and sticks out like a sore thumb, although not quite as bad as the TOTALLY out of place Central Park North Condos www.111centralparknorth.com near me!  :whip:  :whip:  :shoot:.  This piece of shit doesn't fit in anywhere with the pre-war building in harlem.

 

 

BOO! I lived on 10th and Broadway during the summer of 2004 and that building was getting built then if I remember correctly? That's over by St. Mark's Place, right?

 

Ugly.

BOO! I lived on 10th and Broadway during the summer of 2004 and that building was getting built then if I remember correctly? That's over by St. Mark's Place, right?

 

Ugly.

Yeah.  Every damn new "glassanista" building in NYC looks IDENTICAL on the inside. 

 

I went to Astor Place with a good friend who is looking for a new apartment, the view is beautiful...but not worth the price. Those buildings have no character or soul.

BOO! I lived on 10th and Broadway during the summer of 2004 and that building was getting built then if I remember correctly? That's over by St. Mark's Place, right?

 

Ugly.

 

Ha- you probably didn't recognize it because like me when you saw them break ground there you assumed it would be something cool.  Alas.  Yeah, right by St. Marks.  And KMart.  And about 6 Starbucks.

 

I wish my new apartment budget had been as big as MTS's friend. :(

BOO! I lived on 10th and Broadway during the summer of 2004 and that building was getting built then if I remember correctly? That's over by St. Mark's Place, right?

 

Ugly.

I wish my new apartment budget had been as big as MTS's friend. :(

 

So do I!  LOL  the brat ended up buying a place downtown in Tribeca. 

I would like to see what Gwathmey-Siegel produces. While I can't deny that some of the firm's initial popularity resulted from the associated reputation of the "New York Five," they also continue to produce a product that clients and users are excited about (do you think that most clients today actually care about who the New York Five are?) - doesn't that justify a successful result more than "progressive" designs that attempt to reinvent the way the public thinks about student centers?

 

G-S is not a small firm. It reflects the talents of many designers instead of branding a building with their identity. I have a lot of confidence that their talents are able to come to a great solution - their reputations among "architecture circles" is not one-sided, and their portfolio displays the great as well as the not-so-great (I agree that Summit Co. Library is enjoyable, while I believe that Oberlin's dining hall is unsuccessful). I would consider CSU's decision to hire G-S as a good one (not that there aren't other great choices) - largely based upon the greater chances that our tax dollars have in creating a beautiful and enduring building. Of course I will be sure to offer my opinion when their design concept hits these pages.

 

I'm glad that those making this decision weren't hynotized by the "stardust" left behind by Gehry at Case or Mayne at Cincinnati - their reputations as stewards of "progress" to these universities will quickly become recognized as either irresponsible financial decisions or join the ranks of CSU's existing Student Center and Breur's tower in the debate of what "ugly" is.

BOO! I lived on 10th and Broadway during the summer of 2004 and that building was getting built then if I remember correctly? That's over by St. Mark's Place, right?

 

Ugly.

 

Ha- you probably didn't recognize it because like me when you saw them break ground there you assumed it would be something cool.  Alas.  Yeah, right by St. Marks.  And KMart.  And about 6 Starbucks.

 

I wish my new apartment budget had been as big as MTS's friend. :(

 

I think I saw a rendering on a poster or something and thought it would be awesome. Is that the place where Esquire recently had their "ultimate bachelor pad" or something like that?

 

LOL. I saw where MY apartment budget was going to put me in NYC, which is why I moved back to Cleveland. I've got expensive taste. Give me the Upper West Side or give me Lakewood,  ;)

 

edit: btw, that K-Mart is wack. I bought a Mets hat there for $12, and it was definitely not Target quality! I just bought it to get people to leave me alone about my Indians crap. No way I was wearing Yankees garbage.

BOO! I lived on 10th and Broadway during the summer of 2004 and that building was getting built then if I remember correctly? That's over by St. Mark's Place, right?

 

Ugly.

 

 

Ha- you probably didn't recognize it because like me when you saw them break ground there you assumed it would be something cool.  Alas.  Yeah, right by St. Marks.   And KMart.  And about 6 Starbucks.

 

I wish my new apartment budget had been as big as MTS's friend. :(

 

I think I saw a rendering on a poster or something and thought it would be awesome. Is that the place where Esquire recently had their "ultimate bachelor pad" or something like that?

 

LOL. I saw where MY apartment budget was going to put me in NYC, which is why I moved back to Cleveland. I've got expensive taste. Give me the Upper West Side or give me Lakewood,  ;)

 

edit: btw, that K-Mart is wack. I bought a Mets hat there for $12, and it was definitely not Target quality! I just bought it to get people to leave me alone about my Indians crap. No way I was wearing Yankees garbage.

 

UWS?  Hell you can't even buy a box in Central Harlem for less than $744k these days.  Which by the way each of these "units" is equal in price, to some of the the brownstones on my block.  The penthouses are worth more than my borwnstone  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:    Makes no sense at all! 

 

My friend, probably paid $1.5m for his loft which I think is insane for a single person.  But hell its New York...if he didn't shell out for it...someone else would have.

 

The guy who rents the garden studio from my neighbors is an die hard Yankee fan, and some of the neighbors have seats together.  A few years ago, they asked me to go, to an indians game, when one of my neighbors couldn't go, since they knew I was from Cleveland.  For some reason he thought I was a yankees fan, and when I came out with all my Indians gear and derek jeter/bernie williams hate poster..he was like, "You're an indians fan?  Oh, then you can't go with us."  then added, "I knew there was a reason why I didn't like you!"

I would like to see what Gwathmey-Siegel produces. While I can't deny that some of the firm's initial popularity resulted from the associated reputation of the "New York Five," they also continue to produce a product that clients and users are excited about (do you think that most clients today actually care about who the New York Five are?) - doesn't that justify a successful result more than "progressive" designs that attempt to reinvent the way the public thinks about student centers?

 

G-S is not a small firm. It reflects the talents of many designers instead of branding a building with their identity. I have a lot of confidence that their talents are able to come to a great solution - their reputations among "architecture circles" is not one-sided, and their portfolio displays the great as well as the not-so-great (I agree that Summit Co. Library is enjoyable, while I believe that Oberlin's dining hall is unsuccessful). I would consider CSU's decision to hire G-S as a good one (not that there aren't other great choices) - largely based upon the greater chances that our tax dollars have in creating a beautiful and enduring building. Of course I will be sure to offer my opinion when their design concept hits these pages.

 

I'm glad that those making this decision weren't hynotized by the "stardust" left behind by Gehry at Case or Mayne at Cincinnati - their reputations as stewards of "progress" to these universities will quickly become recognized as either irresponsible financial decisions or join the ranks of CSU's existing Student Center and Breur's tower in the debate of what "ugly" is.

 

Nobody ever said that Gwathmey still gets jobs because of his New York Five connection. 

All the selection of Gwathmey ensures us, is the fact that at best we will get an uninspiring project sitting at a prominent location on Euclid Avenue, and at worse we will get a heaping piece of dog shit like you see in The East Village.

Also, why shouldn't architects think of ways to reinvent public spaces?  Going into projects with a preconceived idea of what should be there based on other projects in other cities, is a dangerous move.

And, just because you’re afraid to go out on a limb and be critical of what is going on in our city, doesn’t mean the rest of us are.  But we’ll just wait until next year for you to have an opinion about this project.  We're all holding our breaths...

 

Ok, enough about New York...what about the student center?  What do we want to see there?  What are the essentials...content & design?  We need to communicate this so that Musky can take it to his meetings!

 

First idea: put a climbing wall in one of the central spaces.  Since we didn't get one in the rec center, why not put one in here?  A little mixing of rec with dining & student services & organization offices would be cool!

Why was Gwathmey chosen?  I generally believe that Schwartz makes good choices, maybe this was the best decision given the circumstances. I tend to believe that he could have gotten someone better for the job, but what do I know?  Musky, any word on the selection process?

 

Its all about the money.

 

I just went through the GS website to look at their past projects. They have an extensive list of educational facility design, but they do not have many that take the urban core into context (except for the project in Buffalo). I am not impressed with what they have.  Not inspiring at all.

Me neither... that's why the students have to drive the design this time.  F- the old fogies with their "theories" and "experience."  They're not building it for themselves!

I will do what I can in my lowly position.

 

 

In other news, you may recall the Law Building received a chunk of change from the Wolsteins for some redecorating. Well, the first conceptuals have come in that shows what the Euclid side of the building might look like in the next year or so.

First, what it looks like now.

Next, two possibilities.

 

 

but the status quo is sooo beautiful!!

 

Seriously though, I wish that they could wrap the new facade around E.18 a bit more. I like the new facade with the roof extension, but it'd be nice if the side of the building could be improved.

 

 

I kinda like it without the roof extension.

I like it with the roof extention.  Will that be lit?

I like with!

 

Man that existing facade needs a little freshening.

I am glad they are moving the main entrance of the law school to Euclid.

 

In response to the question "what do we want to see" for the student center?  I would like to see about a five story building jutting out all the way to Euclid made primarily of glass (maybe even just a "box" done well).  Very transparent.  It would be cool to drive or walk down Euclid at night (especially in the winter) and peer into a well lit multi-floor building jammed with people participating in a variety of activities or just lounging around.  It would give the campus so well needed life and bring it out onto Euclid.

^ ditto. i would consider something like that very successful.

Cleveland State's newly reopened Fenn Tower will be featured on the TV program "Applause" on WVIZ-Ideastream on Thursday, October 12 at 7:30 p.m.

 

The program will repeat on Saturday, Oct. 14 at 6:30 p.m. and Sunday, Oct. 15 at 1 p.m.

 

The following were interviewed for the program:

 

Michael Schwartz, President

 

Tim Cosgrove, President, CSU Board of Trustees

 

William Becker, University Archivist

 

Walter Leedy, Professor of Art

 

Randy Painter, Turner Construction

 

I started a new thread about CSU that does not relate to construction.

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=10753.new#new

Ok, I do not really know why this article was written. The story is over two years old.

What do you expect from a student run paper I guess. :x

 

From the CSU Cauldren:

 

 

Varsity Village Proposal

Plans for a diving well and athletic fieldhouse

By: Mieskoski, Tom

Issue date: 10/9/06 Section: Sports

 

Cleveland State's original proposal for the Varsity Village planned for a new baseball stadium on campus, renovation of Krenzler Field, relocation of the softball field tennis courts, and residential developments surrounding the athletic facilities.

 

However, since then there have been some changes. The baseball field is scheduled to be built on campus, however the softball field and tennis courts will not be relocated and will remain in their current locations.

 

In addition the university has added two new proposals; a diving well and a university fieldhouse.

 

"The [Varsity Village] will bring state of the art athletic facilities [to CSU]. It will bring a sense of community and neighborhood to our campus. Because you will have residence halls, or apartments on campus it will create a neighborhood effect for our university and downtown Cleveland," said CSU Director of Athletics Lee Reed. "We are trying to do something similar to the University of Cincinnati and Louisville. It will give us more of a residential feel."

 

The baseball stadium is scheduled to be built on the corner of East 22nd and Payne Avenue. The baseball stadium is scheduled to be built in three to five years.

 

"We did a feasibility study last spring. What we found out was the land designated on the master plan for a baseball field can actually happen there. We have a better estimate of what the cost associated with building a baseball field on campus will be," said Reed. "We need to come up with the money so we will have a ballpark (on campus) as soon as possible."

 

The diving well will be connected to the Busbey Natatorium and allow CSU to host the NCAA's Swimming and Diving Championships. CSU, which has hosted four NCAA Swimming and Diving Championships in the past, have not hosted the NCAA's Championships since the mid 1980's because the NCAA requires the host school to have a diving well.

 

"We did a feasibility study a year ago on the diving well. We are in the fund raising stage. We need money to pay for it," said Reed. "It's approximately five to six million dollar project that will enhance the current Natatorium and allow us to host championships and International events."

 

The athletic fieldhouse is expected to be built on the parking lot where lot z stands. The University is also planning for a parking garage under the fieldhouse and a RTA Transit Center connected to the fieldhouse. The fieldhouse will provide additional office space and practice space for university athletic teams.

 

"The university is in the process of negotiating a partnership with RTA to put a bus hub (on campus). Then they will build a parking lot on Lot Z. Above the garage their tentative plans to have a fieldhouse," said Reed. "Probably between five to ten years, depending on resources, timing of the university project and when they get the garage built."

 

The Varsity Village also plans for renovations on Viking Field and a second phase of renovations on Krenzler Field.

 

"[For] Viking Field we like to add a new scoreboard, enhance the seating area and work on the playing surface," said Reed. "Phase Two of Krenzler Field we would like to build out of the existing team buildings, add another locker room, a permanent concession stand, new restrooms, a press box, and create a new main entrance."

 

[email protected]

 

Cool news about the stadium... CSU's portion of Payne Avenue is currently a wasteland in desperate need of some new buildings.

Wouldn't it be really cool if there was a press release stating that a certain local businessman and philanthropist and overall rich (and possibly too libertarian) gave CSU money?

 

Wouldn't it be really cool if that money was somewhere in the amount of $25,000?

 

You know what would be reeeaaallly cool? What if that money was to be used for a planning study for a performing/fine arts center - maybe on the land immediately south of the Communications College?

 

Wait, it would be really super-duper cool if the firm doing the planning study was an internationally recognized, award winning local architectural firm who has already done work at CSU.

 

Hmmmmm, that would be great news. :clap:

 

We received the planning study for the Visual Arts Center last week.

Here are a few shots of the conceptual proposal. These are basically massing and programing studies. It is not funded and will likely not look like this. However, the university leadership loves it. No cost has been associated with it yet. It is expected in about a month. If the donor who paid for the study would like to contribute significantly to the construction of said building, it would be the second one in the city with his name on it (on two different colleges).

 

 

 

 

 

As you can see, if anything slightly resembling this concept were built, it would significantly alter the Euclid Corridor landscape in the best of ways. It would likely cause the GS architects/staff to up their game when designing the Student Center.

 

And, yes, this would mean the end of the Corlett Building.

 

Here's hoping it gets built.

^in that last image, it sure looks like they moved Fenn Tower and plopped it down on top of Levin College.

 

I look forward to hearing more about this. (I could deal with losing Corlett.)

WOW!  WRL needs to get more commissions in this town.  That's groundbreaking stuff!  I love it!

 

damn, that is so innovative!!  i wish that would get built, cleveland needs more of that kind of stuff (outside of university circle) and have it downtown as well

What happened was I zoomed in at max from Public Square, and it did that funky perspective thing. I'm trying to remember who contacted me from WRL for this...

 

 

As far as the building goes - love, love, love it (even in conceptual form).

yeah, i must admit that I really like the conceptual drawings. I would say that it seems a bit large--stretching from the law building all the way to the next interesection with Euclid.  I think that would be too big.

^That very issue has come up within the ranks.

The consensus is that Cleveland, let alone CSU, does not need two more theaters of the size proposed (which is not shown - I will post later this week).

I wonder if this were built as proposed, what this would say as to the number of theater seats in a particular theater district across the country. (I realize Cleveland is already number two.)

Would this be a theater and nothing else? Where is CSU's current theater? Would this project fill a current university need? Would this hurt or help Playhouse Square?

That would be the most interesting project a Cleveland firm has done in quite some time if it is built. 

The lengthened horizontality works well when considered in relation to the movement of the Euclid Corridor vehicles.

So Lewis was serious when he threatened to take his money to CSU. That's nice.

The vertical box is aproximately next to where the Corlett building is. The floating box is where that small surface lot next to the Corlett building is. So most of this is where the C.orlett building is located. This could pose a problem, as a I recall the Corlett building is considered a historic building. But this particular structure is withing the master plan otherwise.

 

From the master plan guidelines

 

Historic buildings at Cleveland State add architectural diversity to the campus and provide a tangible link to the City’s past. The reuse of buildings also reduces environmental impacts of demolition and new construction. Wherever feasible, the University will preserve historic buildings, either for University uses or private sector redevelopment.

 

The CORLETT BUILDING at 1935 Euclid Avenue has two reasonably intact historic facades--the front (south) facade and the east facade. The building was acquired by Cleveland State in 1973 and is currently leased to the Cleveland Board of Education as classroom swing space for high school students during the renovation of the City’s school buildings.

 

 

 

Relocating the ART GALLERY and THEATRE BUILDING (currently at Chester Avenue and East 23rd Street) to Euclid Avenue would increase its visibility and provide a better link to the cultural attractions at Playhouse Square. Extensive recent improvements to the gallery, however, may preclude the relocation of this facility for the foreseeable future. If the gallery/theatre complex remains in its current location, a 5,000 square foot entry addition to the eastern side of the building will increase the physical presence of this facility and make it more welcoming to students, faculty, staff, and the general public. A sculpture court adjacent to the gallery will also enhance its outward appeal and strengthen its value as an amenity for the proposed residential neighborhood north of Chester Avenue.

 

 

WOW!!!

Very innovative. Anything that adds energy and entices people to want to be on the streets as a scene of positive activity is OK with me!

I was looking at it in more detail, and I understand these are just massings but....

 

There is an open pit fronting Euclid Ave, and that is a terrible idea. A vast concrete plaza with an open pit is what is allready inside the rhodes tower/main classroom/UC area, and that was a bad mistake. Its wedged inbetween the tall tower and semi-floating part.

^agreed. The second last massing had me wondering.  I also didn't like the huge steps that rise up from the  sidewalk.  I thought we wanted to get away from that style?

...This could pose a problem, as a I recall the Corlett building is considered a historic building...

 

From the master plan guidelines...

 

...Wherever feasible, the University will preserve historic buildings, either for University uses or private sector redevelopment.

 

The CORLETT BUILDING at 1935 Euclid Avenue has two reasonably intact historic facades--the front (south) facade and the east facade. The building was acquired by Cleveland State in 1973 and is currently leased to the Cleveland Board of Education as classroom swing space for high school students during the renovation of the City’s school buildings.

 

 

The Corlett is on the National Register, but not a Cleveland Historic Landmark. Which means there really is no protection.

 

Feasible is the key word.

If somebody provides significant funding for this proposal, then it would likely not be feasible to keep Corlet, unles the funder wanted to keep it, or part of it with the proposed new structure

 

The current Master Plan is getting ready to be updated, most likely by UDC, again.

 

CPSD is no longer using the building. There are no current plans to use it in the near term... or at least not until Euclid Corridor is finished.