Very disappointing.  I must say, I think CSU's supposedly new-found urban design awareness has been a bit over-hyped over the past few years.

 

They're not going all-in with it, that's for sure.  Tearing down two buildings for a "sustainability center" is hopelessly ironic.  For every appropriate structure CSU has built on Euclid, they've torn down another and replaced it with lawn.  And while I like the new student center on the inside, its street presence is no better than the old one, maybe worse.

 

Last year I got a chance to tour the University of Minnesota campus... seems like a decent model to emulate.

Very disappointing.  I must say, I think CSU's supposedly new-found urban design awareness has been a bit over-hyped over the past few years.

 

They're not going all-in with it, that's for sure.  Tearing down two buildings for a "sustainability center" is hopelessly ironic.  For every appropriate structure CSU has built on Euclid, they've torn down another and replaced it with lawn.  And while I like the new student center on the inside, its street presence is no better than the old one, maybe worse.

Last year I got a chance to tour the University of Minnesota campus... seems like a decent model to emulate.

 

Id have to disagree that demolishing Viking Hall is really a loss.

 

And although the new student center is not built right up to the street at all corners, it does have a lot of pedestrian traffic going in and out and does add to the street in my opinion.

CSU desperately needed more greenspace.  I like what they have done in terms of transforming their campus.  And it appears much more is to come.

This is an interesting example of saving an historic facade.  It's residential (low density as well) but it's such a STRIKING example that it makes saving a downtown tower's facade seem downright easy.

 

http://dornob.com/preservation-puzzle-historic-facade-hides-whole-new-home/

 

 

And here's an even more extreme example of how we can preserve our historic streets and buildings while changing uses:

 

http://dornob.com/house-of-worship-old-stone-church-hides-brand-new-home/

Id have to disagree that demolishing Viking Hall is really a loss.

 

I wouldn't say it's architecturally significant but that's a lot of housing units to lose, in a downtown that can't get high rises built despite long waiting lists and 4-digit rents.  Seems like it wouldn't be that hard to convert it to sorely needed 1BR units.  So we're giving up that, plus yet another historic commercial building, in exchange for yet another squat private bunker on main street.  There are plenty of vacant lots around CSU.  Build on one of those, if the idea is sustainability. 

 

CSU desperately needed more greenspace. 

 

I feel like CSU already had an abundance of open lawn for a downtown campus.  In our climate greenspace is snowspace for half the year, and bare grass breaks up the north wind about as well as Lake Erie does.  And if more greenspace really was needed, did it have to replace the street wall of Euclid Avenue?  Multiple times?  Again, it's not like CSU isn't surrounded with surface parking.  These teardowns seem really unnecessary.   

The greenspace could also be accomplished by capping 90

"Need" more greenspace?  For what?

 

From what I understand, the building is practically falling apart. The elevators alone were going to cost 7 figures to replace. It's a stock Holiday Inn hotel from the 60's. Built quick and cheap. It was never intended to be used as a dorm.  The sooner it comes down, the better!

It adds an element to any college campus, urban or not, which CSU was lacking.  JMO.  I am not talking about rolling meadows, but a halfway decent quad is not too much to ask.

Are there any vague plans of the "sustainability center"? Is it at least built up to the street?

It adds an element to any college campus, urban or not, which CSU was lacking.  JMO.  I am not talking about rolling meadows, but a halfway decent quad is not too much to ask.

 

I agree, to a point.  A large greenspace would give the campus the opportunity for events and outdoor meeting space (both formal and spontaneous).  The challenge is selling it to a student body that clamors for parking spaces.  As it stands right now the greenspaces are not heavily used.

The courtyard behind the student center is used alot. And the lots north of the school are already set for construction 327

As a CSU student I would say that we have plenty of greenspace. We do have a quad, with the Student center to the North, Main Classroom to the West, Rhodes Tower/Library to South, and main parking garage to the east. Its is a large, pleasant, and very much used greenspace. In the nice weather, that quad is always hopping with much activity, students studying, socializing, playing frisbee, smoking  :| , its a cool place with an interesting design. It has plenty of grass, plants, trees, benches, lights, a fountain, etc.

 

Alternatively there is a lovely garden in between the Law building and music/communications building with a nice curved path and some interesting plants, and in general most of the University side on Euclid from 21st to 18th.

 

I don't mean to pile on you Hts121, but do you know what "more greenspace" gets us? That building on Euclid torn down next to Moe's Southwest grill to make way for a nice winding path that leads to an alley way that I have never seen used. Plus we lost the street wall, why? So we can see the Wolstein center? Its still not easy to get there from that path.

As a CSU student I would say that we have plenty of greenspace. We do have a quad, with the Student center to the North, Main Classroom to the West, Rhodes Tower/Library to South, and main parking garage to the east. Its is a large, pleasant, and very much used greenspace. In the nice weather, that quad is always hopping with much activity, students studying, socializing, playing frisbee, smoking  :| , its a cool place with an interesting design. It has plenty of grass, plants, trees, benches, lights, a fountain, etc.

 

Alternatively there is a lovely garden in between the Law building and music/communications building with a nice curved path and some interesting plants, and in general most of the University side on Euclid from 21st to 18th.

 

I don't mean to pile on you Hts121, but do you know what "more greenspace" gets us? That building on Euclid torn down next to Moe's Southwest grill to make way for a nice winding path that leads to an alley way that I have never seen used. Plus we lost the street wall, why? So we can see the Wolstein center? Its still not easy to get there from that path.

 

To be fair they do plan on buying the lot behind the new path to continue it over to prospect. The new plaza/walkway was under construction and fenced off all of last school year and now it is open during the summer when most people aren't going to school. Give it a litte bit more time. And at least they demolished the least significant building on the street. Im not a fan of everything the school does but I think this particular project as well as the planned demolition of Viking Hall are not that bad of decisions. I still believe CSU has the ability to improve downtown faster than anything else. Keep adding more dorms/apartments and get more students to live downtown and you will begin to see more and more foot traffic as well as businesses popping up.

It adds an element to any college campus, urban or not, which CSU was lacking.  JMO.  I am not talking about rolling meadows, but a halfway decent quad is not too much to ask.

 

A halfway decent quad would be good (I don't consider the space behind the student center a quad, per se, though I like it) but I don't see any real quads in the plans.  And I'm not really sure if the way CSU is laid out allows for developing a quad without some serious realignment of street grids and buildings.

My favorite plan that I really hope the university does is to build a greenspace/pathway bridge over east 21st and continue the greenspace over the garage and to the law library.

As a CSU student I would say that we have plenty of greenspace. We do have a quad, with the Student center to the North, Main Classroom to the West, Rhodes Tower/Library to South, and main parking garage to the east. Its is a large, pleasant, and very much used greenspace. In the nice weather, that quad is always hopping with much activity, students studying, socializing, playing frisbee, smoking  :| , its a cool place with an interesting design. It has plenty of grass, plants, trees, benches, lights, a fountain, etc.

 

Alternatively there is a lovely garden in between the Law building and music/communications building with a nice curved path and some interesting plants, and in general most of the University side on Euclid from 21st to 18th.

 

I don't mean to pile on you Hts121, but do you know what "more greenspace" gets us? That building on Euclid torn down next to Moe's Southwest grill to make way for a nice winding path that leads to an alley way that I have never seen used. Plus we lost the street wall, why? So we can see the Wolstein center? Its still not easy to get there from that path.

 

To be fair they do plan on buying the lot behind the new path to continue it over to prospect. The new plaza/walkway was under construction and fenced off all of last school year and now it is open during the summer when most people aren't going to school. Give it a litte bit more time. And at least they demolished the least significant building on the street. Im not a fan of everything the school does but I think this particular project as well as the planned demolition of Viking Hall are not that bad of decisions. I still believe CSU has the ability to improve downtown faster than anything else. Keep adding more dorms/apartments and get more students to live downtown and you will begin to see more and more foot traffic as well as businesses popping up.

 

And also to be fair the master plan does call for a new structure on the west end of the walkway. It was the original location of where an inovation lab was supposed to go which end up at LCCC operated by CSU.

 

And I could care less about viking hall. That building is abhorent and needs to go. Though its extremely disapointing they feel the need to remove the historic building as well. With the slightest amount of creativity the building or its facade could be incorporated into the project. And as far as I know any proposed development there is built to the street.

The apartments planned for north of Chester.

 

 

 

 

 

And the ones planned to be completed by 2013

 

 

 

 

Damn..... Very nice!

I'm aware of those apartment plans, but they take up only a fraction of the open space between Chester and Payne.  I'm sure CSU could fit a quad-like lawn somewhere around there, and I thought their master plan already included such a thing.  Until recently they planned an entire ballpark in that area.  Don't get me wrong, Euclid Commons and the admin building (as well as the law school frontage and the ed building) were great additions to Euclid Avenue, but I think their effect is mitigated by several questionable teardowns.

Are you sure those are the right renderings?  They're on the wrong block of Chester.

Are you sure those are the right renderings?  They're on the wrong block of Chester.

 

The first 4 might be, but the last 4 are in the right area.

Those are not the correct renderings. I know because my friend was one of the developers who proposed this version and they were not selected by CSU.

Are you sure those are the right renderings?  They're on the wrong block of Chester.

 

The first 4 might be, but the last 4 are in the right area.

 

No, I'm pretty sure the last picture is actually looking at the area where the apartments are actually going to be. 

 

They're supposed to be between E. 21st and 24th, right?

Are you sure those are the right renderings?  They're on the wrong block of Chester.

 

The first 4 might be, but the last 4 are in the right area.

 

No, I'm pretty sure the last picture is actually looking at the area where the apartments are actually going to be. 

 

They're supposed to be between E. 21st and 24th, right?

 

They could be wrong. But I do believe that the first picture in the second set of four, the one that shows the exterior, is west of East 24th.

Are you sure those are the right renderings?  They're on the wrong block of Chester.

 

The first 4 might be, but the last 4 are in the right area.

 

No, I'm pretty sure the last picture is actually looking at the area where the apartments are actually going to be. 

 

They're supposed to be between E. 21st and 24th, right?

 

They could be wrong. But I do believe that the first picture in the second set of four, the one that shows the exterior, is west of East 24th.

 

It looks like that is true.  The picture appears to show an E. 24th St. frontage facing the entrance/exit ramps to 90.

Cleveland State University plans to raze vacant Viking Hall for new development

By Karen Farkas, The Plain Dealer

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Viking Hall, a former Holiday Inn that became Cleveland State University's first dormitory in 1986, is coming down.

The 13-story building, considered an eyesore by CSU, is on a key block that the university hopes to transform into a $50 million commercial, retail and residential development.

 

Read more at: More at: http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2011/07/cleveland_state_university_pla.html

^

"a key block that the university hopes to transform into a $50 million commercial, retail and residential development."

I like that!

We talked about this earlier, but I wondered if anyone has heard even remote considerations to keeping the facade of the building on the right.  It would certainly help with the street presence if the new buildings went right up to Euclid like this one.

 

"The other building that will be removed is an 84-year-old, three-story structure that has been vacant since 2000"

 

Though we haven't seen any plans yet, I sincerely hope the new structure will run up to Euclid's sidewalk and not contain some green frontage.  That "plaza" removed the density from the street.  If anything, put the green space fronting prospect...

 

 

civic commons moves to street-level storefront at trinity commons

Thursday, August 04, 2011

 

The Civic Commons, a nonprofit organization that helps foster civic engagement through creating community conversations, has relocated its offices to a street-level storefront at Trinity Commons.

 

"We wanted to be accessible to the community, and a place where people can just drop by," says Dan Moulthrop, Civic Commons Curator of Conversation, of the move. "We don't want to be hidden in an office building somewhere; we want people to feel like the Civic Commons is a place they recognize and own."

 

Trinity Commons, which is located at E. 22nd and Euclid, was developed by Trinity Episcopal Cathedral a decade ago to house its offices, provide community meeting space and create new storefronts. Moulthrop says he is looking forward to using Trinity Commons' meeting space to host face-to-face conversations about important civic issues, supplementing the group's online presence.

 

Moulthrop is also enjoying his central location in the Campus District near downtown Cleveland. "We're close to a lot of things, and very accessible because we're right on Euclid Avenue, a major artery into downtown," he says.

 

http://www.freshwatercleveland.com/devnews/civiccommonsstorefront080411.aspx

Could this be associated with CSU?

 

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2011/08052011/index.php

 

Ordinance No. 942-11 (Ward 3/Cimperman): Determing the method of making the public improvement of rehabilitating, renovating, or making capital repairs to the North Point transitional housing facility located at 1550 Superior Avenue; and authorizing the Director of Community Development to enter into one or more public improvement contracts for the making of the improvement.

Public meeting at CSU regarding Viking Hall and the former Kinko's building (or the Wolf music building as SLPA has been calling it)

 

Im going to go and see if something can't be done to save the Walker and Weeks designed building.

It should be VERY easy to work around and incorporate the Kinko's building into the plan. It would be such a shame to see that building come down.

If I can attend, I will give them hell if they think that its a benefit to tear that down. The building is one of the shrinking population of historical and pedestrian oriented buildings left on that stretch of euclid. I know I am preaching to the choir, but this HAS to be one that we really raise our voices on. If CSU really wants to add to their campus, its decisions like this that are critical.

 

UO meet-up/angry mob? ;)

The pictures a few posts above seem to be incorrect. That location was proposed several years ago and fell thru. The latest plans are much further east near Rhodes Tower and the Malaga Tennis Courts. FYI, the high-end apartments are E. 18th and Chester never took full fruition, as did the short lived plans for some sort of 3rd party housing at Chester and 29th, on a very thin stretch of land between the BP and I-90's eastbound lanes. Also --- I can not (at least not currently) picture high end apartments in that specific location. Who would pay a premium to live next door to the Greyhound station? Not exactly a perk imo.

csu to raze viking hall, its first dorm, to clear way for development

Thursday, August 18, 2011

 

The bunker-like concrete building at the corner of Euclid and E. 22nd was built in 1971 as a Holiday Inn. It became Cleveland State University's first dormitory in 1986. Over the years, Viking Hall has come to be seen as something of a relic -- and a barrier to the new, outward-focused identity of the university.

 

CSU aims to turn the site into a $50 million commercial, retail and residential development. Currently, the university is preparing a Request for Proposals (RFP) to obtain ideas from developers for potential uses of the property.

 

http://www.freshwatercleveland.com/devnews/vikinghalldemolition081811.aspx?utm_source=VerticalResponse&utm_medium=Email&utm_term=csu+to+raze+viking+hall%2c+its+first+dorm%2c+to+clear+way+for+development&utm_content={Email_Address}&utm_campaign=Home+in+the+216

it doesn't say anything about the old cooper school of art building (pictured) (I forget what we have been calling it officially.. the walker and weeks?)

 

So hey maybe that is good news. Seems like it depends on what developer they are going to choose.

 

IMO, freshwater is conveniently overlooking the Cooper/Kinko's Bldg demolition. It is very likely -- and they've got to know that.

CSU has said though that there's a small chance (very small) the facade could be worked in a final design. I see this going the way of  the Corlett.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Went to the Indians game last night. While we were down there we walked over to CSU and took a couple pictures of the dorm. Sorry for the poor picture quality. It was sunny and we were using my girlfriends camera phone(which actually usually takes pretty good pictures.)

 

 

 

What are those things moving around on the sidewalks? :-P

You mean the two people?

Look across the street, too.

Oh well.

 

After countless (and well deserved) negative comments I have posted in connection with these buildings, I will attempt something positive.  I guess, at least, they are better than what was there.  But as mentioned countless times on this board, we cannot settle just because somebody wants to build SOMETHING.

well it isn't hard to beat a surface parking lot and a one story CMU bookstore...

 

I guess the positive is that the form and function are perfect. the aesthetics are painful.

 

Yes, those are the ugliest things.

But I'll take 'em.

Alright here is the low down on the three story Walker and Week’s building adjacent Viking Hall. The meeting was today, and only myself, a student filming it for a class (not urban related, just a film class) and our dear friend Mr. Frangos were in attendance. The plan is to raze the two buildings, with grants for asbestos removal and other environmental factors, and a mixed use building of unknown size and shape will be its replacement. They are waiting for a developer to come along similar, I think, to how Polaris is handling North Chester. All I know is CSU does not have anything specific in mind.

 

The building will be commercial and institutional, apparently there is a 5 year freeze on residential development from CSU due to all the new residential currently being added. They said if everything goes according to plan, demolition and redevelopment can happen as early as late 2012, early 2013. Grants need to be granted, developers need to come forward, etc. I raised questions as to whether or not CSU had looked into redevelopment. I was informed that the University Architect had deemed it unhistorical. After attempts at refuting that, bringing up the famous Walker and Weeks firm, its age, its handsome façade, what else makes a building historical? The main concern was the economics of redeveloping the site, as it is in great disrepair.

 

They said two things must be done to create a case for preservation, one, make an argument that the building is indeed historical, and two, there needs to be more public support. They said that so far I am the only one to raise these questions (obviously they don't read UrbanOhio). I will be working with SLPA and the Cleveland Restoration society to see if anything can be done here. Maybe Urban Ohioans would like to get into this too? I'll keep you all updated as this develops.

 

These two emails were given to me, as they charged me with the responsibility of preparing a proposal for why the building is historical. (I will work on this with SLPA and hopefully Cathleen Crowther). If anyone wants to email them and start getting the message out there that some people care about this building, please do. Let them no its not just me who cares.

 

Joe Mosbrook, Director of Strategic Communications              [email protected]

 

Forward to Laura Clark, Senior Development Finance Analyst for Cuyahoga County          [email protected]

 

Laura Clark is the County, I dont know, overseer? Liaison? Helper? of this development. Something along those lines.

 

**mods, I am going to post a link to this thread in the Cleveland demolition thread to route discussion here, just to get the word out in case people dont read the CSU college town thread but want to read about impending demolitions. Or you can redirect discussion there, whatever is better.**

Alright here is the low down on the three story Walker and Week’s building adjacent Viking Hall. The meeting was today, and only myself, a student filming it for a class (not urban related, just a film class) and our dear friend Mr. Frangos were in attendance. The plan is to raze the two buildings, with grants for asbestos removal and other environmental factors, and a mixed use building of unknown size and shape will be its replacement. They are waiting for a developer to come along similar, I think, to how Polaris is handling North Chester. All I know is CSU does not have anything specific in mind.

 

The building will be commercial and institutional, apparently there is a 5 year freeze on residential development from CSU due to all the new residential currently being added. They said if everything goes according to plan, demolition and redevelopment can happen as early as late 2012, early 2013. Grants need to be granted, developers need to come forward, etc. I raised questions as to whether or not CSU had looked into redevelopment. I was informed that the University Architect had deemed it unhistorical. After attempts at refuting that, bringing up the famous Walker and Weeks firm, its age, its handsome façade, what else makes a building historical? The main concern was the economics of redeveloping the site, as it is in great disrepair.

 

They said two things must be done to create a case for preservation, one, make an argument that the building is indeed historical, and two, there needs to be more public support. They said that so far I am the only one to raise these questions (obviously they don't read UrbanOhio). I will be working with SLPA and the Cleveland Restoration society to see if anything can be done here. Maybe Urban Ohioans would like to get into this too? I'll keep you all updated as this develops.

 

These two emails were given to me, as they charged me with the responsibility of preparing a proposal for why the building is historical. (I will work on this with SLPA and hopefully Cathleen Crowther). If anyone wants to email them and start getting the message out there that some people care about this building, please do. Let them no its not just me who cares.

 

Joe Mosbrook, Director of Strategic Communications              [email protected]

 

Forward to Laura Clark, Senior Development Finance Analyst for Cuyahoga County          [email protected]

 

Laura Clark is the County, I dont know, overseer? Liaison? Helper? of this development. Something along those lines.

 

**mods, I am going to post a link to this thread in the Cleveland demolition thread to route discussion here, just to get the word out in case people dont read the CSU college town thread but want to read about impending demolitions. Or you can redirect discussion there, whatever is better.**

 

Thats a lie, I talked to the University Architect and we had a conversation over email. Basically in the end he believed that the building was not historical and did not justify working around it for such a large site. I disagreed.

I think the issue here was the University Architect was not present. The people heading the meeting may not have heard anything, and since the Architect did not agree with you he probably kept your conversation to himself. At the very least my comments will go into the public record and the grant application. That is why I provided the emails, this is the person who charged me with garnering support and an argument, he should be the one to note the public support from now on. ClevelandOhio, email him, hell, tell him about your discussion with the Architect. It can only help.

Alright here is the low down on the three story Walker and Week’s building adjacent Viking Hall....

 

Are you talking about the apt/condo building that was recently converted to residential about 5 years ago--http://www.walkerweeks.com/ ??

 

Alright here is the low down on the three story Walker and Week’s building adjacent Viking Hall. The meeting was today, and only myself, a student filming it for a class (not urban related, just a film class) and our dear friend Mr. Frangos were in attendance. The plan is to raze the two buildings, with grants for asbestos removal and other environmental factors, and a mixed use building of unknown size and shape will be its replacement. They are waiting for a developer to come along similar, I think, to how Polaris is handling North Chester. All I know is CSU does not have anything specific in mind.

 

The building will be commercial and institutional, apparently there is a 5 year freeze on residential development from CSU due to all the new residential currently being added. They said if everything goes according to plan, demolition and redevelopment can happen as early as late 2012, early 2013. Grants need to be granted, developers need to come forward, etc. I raised questions as to whether or not CSU had looked into redevelopment. I was informed that the University Architect had deemed it unhistorical. After attempts at refuting that, bringing up the famous Walker and Weeks firm, its age, its handsome façade, what else makes a building historical? The main concern was the economics of redeveloping the site, as it is in great disrepair.

 

They said two things must be done to create a case for preservation, one, make an argument that the building is indeed historical, and two, there needs to be more public support. They said that so far I am the only one to raise these questions (obviously they don't read UrbanOhio). I will be working with SLPA and the Cleveland Restoration society to see if anything can be done here. Maybe Urban Ohioans would like to get into this too? I'll keep you all updated as this develops.

 

These two emails were given to me, as they charged me with the responsibility of preparing a proposal for why the building is historical. (I will work on this with SLPA and hopefully Cathleen Crowther). If anyone wants to email them and start getting the message out there that some people care about this building, please do. Let them no its not just me who cares.

 

Joe Mosbrook, Director of Strategic Communications              [email protected]

 

Forward to Laura Clark, Senior Development Finance Analyst for Cuyahoga County          [email protected]

 

Laura Clark is the County, I dont know, overseer? Liaison? Helper? of this development. Something along those lines.

 

**mods, I am going to post a link to this thread in the Cleveland demolition thread to route discussion here, just to get the word out in case people dont read the CSU college town thread but want to read about impending demolitions. Or you can redirect discussion there, whatever is better.**

 

 

5 year freeze on residential ???