Im sure this thread will be locked soon, and all these posts deleted, but I just want to say one thing to Clevlander17 before that happens.

 

Yes, folks. This is actually a development projects thread. I've not locked the thread and left these posts up because they sort-of discuss campus design and planning issues, and the impacts of those are related to the construction projects underway and planned. As long as the discussion stays on the impacts of campus design and construction projects, then all is right in UO-land.

 

And ClevelandOhio has shared with us the first of what will hopefully be many construction update pictures of the North Campus Neighborhood. The more photographers the merrier! I wonder if they'll add a construction webcam at: http://www.csuohio.edu/offices/architect/projects/northcampus/

I'm trying to think of the last time we saw construction of this magnitude on a former surface lot in the downtown area without any significant demolition of existing buildings.  I suppose, as we can see from the responses from those who use the lots, that there will always be protesters.  I'm sure if the lots in the WHD ever get developed, we will hear gripes as well.

 

FWIW, as a CSU alumni, I am glad too see my school trying to shed its purely commuter image.  I was very impressed with the 'activity' I saw on Euclid Ave a few months back one night.  It actually resembled a college campus with students moving about.  It certainly didn't look anything like that when I was there.

 

Both sides have good points here and I think both interests can be accommodated.  Many schools are transitioning from commuter to residential these days.  Shouldn't be too hard to strike a proper balance going forward.

 

Someone with 'anti-density tendencies' has hi-jacked 327's account.

^Well, the overall project does include some demo, including the Doan Electric Building, which would have been nice to save.  The old art and theater building is also coming down, and while it was less distinguished, it was also a piece of Cleveland's industrial architectural heritage.  So, not without some architectural losses.

^ Looks like the first phase wont touch those buildings quite yet. The art building in my opinion is no loss.

I went to CSU my first year, then Ohio State to graduate.  Im pretty sure you can fit the majority of CSUs campus on Ohio State's oval.

 

My point: quit crying.  Walking is part of the college experience.

 

Exactly!

 

As a student who lived on campus and also commuted before that, I do not see what all the crying is about with parking.  Walk. It is not that big of a deal.  It's plain and simple.  CSU is not saying forget the commuters, let's focus on the urban dwellers now.  There is still plenty of parking, and it's not hard to find ALL that parking that is on and around campus.  I had no problem parking in the south garage and walking to the urban affairs building over by Playhouse Square.  No one is missing the point here.  It's just kind of sad that some students are going to go to this length about the parking.  Guess these are the ones that don't get out much.  These problems are not limited to CSU.  I also went to school in Gainesville, Florida and that was worse. 

I went to CSU my first year, then Ohio State to graduate.  Im pretty sure you can fit the majority of CSUs campus on Ohio State's oval.

 

My point: quit crying.  Walking is part of the college experience.

 

Exactly!

 

As a student who lived on campus and also commuted before that, I do not see what all the crying is about with parking.  Walk. It is not that big of a deal.  It's plain and simple.  CSU is not saying forget the commuters, let's focus on the urban dwellers now.  There is still plenty of parking, and it's not hard to find ALL that parking that is on and around campus.  I had no problem parking in the south garage and walking to the urban affairs building over by Playhouse Square.  No one is missing the point here.  It's just kind of sad that some students are going to go to this length about the parking.  Guess these are the ones that don't get out much.  These problems are not limited to CSU.  I also went to school in Gainesville, Florida and that was worse.

 

Sorry, delete this if I went off topic.  Glad to see the new development is coming along well.

@KJP, for an update...

 

Took this over a week ago. Never got around to posting it.

 

 

Is that view from Main Classroom?

^ Yeah, that looks like it must be from Main Classroom looking northward.

 

 

FWIW, as a CSU alumni, I am glad too see my school trying to shed its purely commuter image.  I was very impressed with the 'activity' I saw on Euclid Ave a few months back one night.  It actually resembled a college campus with students moving about.  It certainly didn't look anything like that when I was there.

 

 

CSU alum here as well and very supportive of their attempt to leave commuter-school status behind! 

 

Along this same line I've long been a proponent of Division I football for CSU.  10 more games for Cleveland Browns stadium could help the subject of an another off-topic discussion on the Lakefront Development thread.  ;) And 20,000 suburbanite kids living downtown and spending mom and dad's money would change the face of Cleveland forever! 

^ To your last part, not only that, but they will also be exposed to urban living for four years which would most likely greatly increase the chance that they would choose to live downtown or in the city over the suburbs.

I just don't think the comparisons of Cleveland State to Ohio State or the University of Dayton or the University of Florida are at all relevant.  Those schools are residential in character and every student that enrolls in those schools knows what they're getting into and readily signs up for that.  Cleveland State is a commuter school (this is NOT a bad thing) and has been sold to pretty much all of the current students as such.  I would likely not be at Cleveland State furthering my higher education (yes, I did complete four years of underground at a very residential school and walked EVERYWHERE while there) if CSU were a more "traditional" college campus. 

 

The thing that has made CSU great--and important to the community--is its accessibility.  Accessibility to commuters, accessibility in admissions, etc., etc.  Like it or not, that is the role it plays here in Cuyahoga County.  I have absolutely no problem with the argument that Cleveland needs a significant public, residential university.  I wholeheartedly support such a vision.  I just question that vision for Cleveland State, especially if there is not a plan to have other institutions step in to fill the void.  For instance, if the state supported a transition of, perhaps, Tri-C into a school that could offer a full range of bachelor's and select master's degrees, then it would be perfectly fine for CSU to try to fundamentally change its identity.

 

Im sure this thread will be locked soon, and all these posts deleted, but I just want to say one thing to Clevlander17 before that happens.

 

You have a bad attitude, that defeatist attitude that is keeping CSU down. Amongst some of the most impressive campus developments in CSU's history, and amongst record breaking GPA enrollments for this college, it is students like you who give CSU a bad name. It seems like you have no faith in your own university, and when you graduate from this "drive through degree factory" as you call it, your potential employers will see that you have no confidence in the school that awarded you your degree, and pass you by for a student with some respect for his university.

 

Maybe you wont send in a $5 check to the alumni association because of this parking issue, but my guess is you abandoned CSU before you stepped into your first class.

 

I would take offense to this, but you don't know the first thing about me or my experience at CSU (which has, for the most part, been very positive).  As for CSU, it is what it is, and as I mentioned above, that's not necessarily a bad thing.

Sounds like CSU's transition from a commuter school to a residential school isn't going to be completely painless. But not only should it happen, it already is happening and will continue to happen. Sorry.

^ :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:  I can't wait to go to Viking football games! And yes, as a student I will GLADLY pay more money for a football team... and continue to buy tickets as an alum!!!!!

They are relevant in the sense of parking.  It took me forever to find a parking space in Gainesville (which seems to be the problem according to the article), and parking was extremely limited there. People complained when they were adding new additions to buildings that took out some of the overflow parking spaces. What most people are getting at here is why the constant complaining from students about the parking when there is plenty of it on and around campus.  It's really a mute point because walking is not that big of an issue, and if you have problems with walking, there a plenty of other options to help you along to get to where you need to on campus.  If you have to leave a little earlier to find parking, do so.  The south garage is plenty big enough and close enough to campus (especially the student center) which leads you right to the connector right to everything on campus.  Like I said earlier, I think everyone here is agreeing that this new development is great for CSU and we all want to see it continue to boom like it is.  But the overall mentality of CSU drivers needs to go.  God forbid you walk a couple hundred more feet to get to where you need to go.  Drive around for another 15 minutes just to find a spot that's closer to where YOU want to be at and then complain you were late for class.  Meanwhile, I guarantee you can find a spot somewhere else on campus without the hassle of fighting someone for a spot, and you can easily get to class on time.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that CSU abandon the commuters. In fact, I think the main argument worth hearing from more CSU students on is whether the South Garage is really as much of a PITA as Clevelander is suggesting. A relative commuted to CSU, but by bus, so I don't really have any perspective except as someone who commutes to my own school and doesn't mind swiping my card and would happily walk a few more minutes if it meant my parking would be as cheap as CSU's. Given the distribution of population in NEO, there is good reason to welcome commuters to CSU. I just don't see how that has been horribly compromised by what is honestly a pretty small shift towards residential.

Yes, a very small shift, so far.

As a CSU student in my senior year, I had to come on here and give my two cents. My freshman year was spent at Youngstown State University. If you want to see a REAL commuter school, check out YSU... Being at CSU now for 3 years and living on campus and right next to campus, I have to say CSU is MORE RESIDENTIAL than what is perceived. People are viewing the on-campus population as the residential number. Reserve square is 75% CSU students. The Chesterfield is 75% CSU students. Statler Arms has a good presence of CSU students. Tower Press is CSU students. Walker & Weeks (across from campus) is POURING with CSU students. Even though these students are not "on-campus" and counted in the statistics, they ARE one block away from campus and treat campus as if they lived "on-campus." Cleveland State and Cleveland need to continue to build and attract services- restaurants and more- around campus because all of these students do use them. CSU is more residentail than you think, especially once this new campus village is built.

 

CSU commuters do need to lose their attitude about parking. They feel that they MUST get the spot they get everyday or else THERE'S NO PARKING ON CAMPUS. The South Garage truly is half empty everyday, no joke.

 

I love CSU and what it has become, and what it is becoming. It is gaining more respect and going a long way in becoming a prominent University. I chose coming to CSU over Bowling Green and Ohio State, so save the "they don't compare" speeches.

 

Cleveland needs to jump on CSU's back and support it more. One area in particular is athletics, CSU has one of the best teams in THE NATION. Yet they only draw 3/4k into the awesome Wolstein Center. Cleveland needs to stop obsessing over the horrible pro teams and how bad they are and start showing support for something positive in the city. More and more students are coming to games and it is obvious that the residential shift has something to do with it.

 

Go CSU, keep the developments rolling!

Not the best quality pictures(first one is better) so you have to really look to see whats going on.

 

Taken Monday

 

Taken earlier today(wednesday)

 

 

Thanks!

 

In the picture shot Monday, it looks like they've already got drainage and/or utilities in the ground in preparation for a slab-type foundation on the right-hand side of the photo. Any idea what they're doing there?

Apartments if I understand your question. There will be three buildings on this lot. One larger on Chester, and two smaller ones on the side streets.

 

I understand there will be apartments. I posted some of the renderings/graphics myself.

 

What I'm saying is it looks like they've already done the site prep and utility work and are ready to do foundation pours. And that amazes me they've done so much already.

 

Thanks for your outlines. I can see just how much site work they've done, for what and where.

I jokingly posted this over at the Cleveland Demolitions Watch thread, but it really needs to be posted here. Why'd I post it at Demolitions? Because it seems that when something is declared a landmark, it gets demolished. At best, landmark designations have proven to be meaningless in Cleveland...

 

City Planning Commission

Agenda for February 3, 2012

 

Ordinance No. 72-12(Ward 8/Councilman J. Johnson): Designating Fenn Tower (also known as the National Town and Country Club) as a Cleveland Landmark.

 

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2012/02032012/index.php

You mean you think you'll see something like this in a couple weeks?  It may alleviate the parking crisis of 2012.

 

As a CSU student in my senior year, I had to come on here and give my two cents. My freshman year was spent at Youngstown State University. If you want to see a REAL commuter school, check out YSU... Being at CSU now for 3 years and living on campus and right next to campus, I have to say CSU is MORE RESIDENTIAL than what is perceived. People are viewing the on-campus population as the residential number. Reserve square is 75% CSU students. The Chesterfield is 75% CSU students. Statler Arms has a good presence of CSU students. Tower Press is CSU students. Walker & Weeks (across from campus) is POURING with CSU students. Even though these students are not "on-campus" and counted in the statistics, they ARE one block away from campus and treat campus as if they lived "on-campus." Cleveland State and Cleveland need to continue to build and attract services- restaurants and more- around campus because all of these students do use them. CSU is more residentail than you think, especially once this new campus village is built.

 

CSU commuters do need to lose their attitude about parking. They feel that they MUST get the spot they get everyday or else THERE'S NO PARKING ON CAMPUS. The South Garage truly is half empty everyday, no joke.

 

I love CSU and what it has become, and what it is becoming. It is gaining more respect and going a long way in becoming a prominent University. I chose coming to CSU over Bowling Green and Ohio State, so save the "they don't compare" speeches.

 

Cleveland needs to jump on CSU's back and support it more. One area in particular is athletics, CSU has one of the best teams in THE NATION. Yet they only draw 3/4k into the awesome Wolstein Center. Cleveland needs to stop obsessing over the horrible pro teams and how bad they are and start showing support for something positive in the city. More and more students are coming to games and it is obvious that the residential shift has something to do with it.

 

Go CSU, keep the developments rolling!

 

Nice post.

I understand there will be apartments. I posted some of the renderings/graphics myself.

 

What I'm saying is it looks like they've already done the site prep and utility work and are ready to do foundation pours. And that amazes me they've done so much already.

 

Thanks for your outlines. I can see just how much site work they've done, for what and where.

 

Looks like they already have some foundations in.  You can see the first course of block along Chester.  Nice to see how close to the sidewalk it is.

You mean you think you'll see something like this in a couple weeks?  It may alleviate the parking crisis of 2012.

 

 

Haha, two of the three worst sentences in Cleveland history: "Proposed building to be demolished." and "Proposed surface lot." The third being "The river is on fire."

While I'm excited about this project, I'm wondering: are they still planning on using the cheap vinyl siding from earlier renders?

If I had to guess, because I don't remember any specifications for vinyl, what was depicted in the renderings is actually a composite.  But I get the point..... I hope it is out too.  On the other hand, I wouldn't scrap the whole project because cost demands limit the facade materials.  Siding can always be replaced/upgraded.

How is CSU so much more poor than U of Akron?  Has anyone seen what they've been building there?  Ain't no siding involved, vinyl or otherwise.  Somebody needs to inform Akron about the brick shortage pronto!  They're gonna go bankrupt putting up so many elegant and tasteful structures in an economy like this.  Lord only knows what they're thinking.

I think you might be giving Akron a little bit too much credit and CSU not enough. The new dorms and education building is not that bad

How is CSU so much more poor than U of Akron?  Has anyone seen what they've been building there?  Ain't no siding involved, vinyl or otherwise.  Somebody needs to inform Akron about the brick shortage pronto!  They're gonna go bankrupt putting up so many elegant and tasteful structures in an economy like this.  Lord only knows what they're thinking.

 

Only Lord knows what you're thinking when you post something. 

“Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain.” – Henry Ford

I've seen several campuses in the past year and encountered nothing that even remotely resembled siding.  Brick, stone, that sort of thing.  And I'm talking about new construction during the same challenging economy CSU faces.  As a proud graduate, I'd prefer less excuses and more improvement regarding CSU's design standards.  I'd also prefer that they reconsider the $100,000 they're spending on ONE LIGHT POLE, if decent building materials have become unattainable to such a unique extent. 

I've seen several campuses in the past year and encountered nothing that even remotely resembled siding.  Brick, stone, that sort of thing.  And I'm talking about new construction during the same challenging economy CSU faces.  As a proud graduate, I'd prefer less excuses and more improvement regarding CSU's design standards.  I'd also prefer that they reconsider the $100,000 they're spending on ONE LIGHT POLE, if decent building materials have become unattainable to such a unique extent.

 

It is interesting to note that CSU does not own the dorms on Euclid, they are owned by a LLC formed by CSU and the dorms were built by bonds issued to the LLC,  those bonds are being paid for by the dorm fees of the residents.

 

In essence the dorms are run like a independent business they are designed to make a profit, not to simply live up to the aesthetic expectations of people like me and you.

 

the reality of the future project at Ohio universities is that they are unlikely to be funded by direct state funding, the universities have had to become creative in financing project, either through public private partnerships, Bonds, or out of their general fund.  the last State funded building at CSU was the education building, everything else from the student center or Rec center was funded by either additional fees on students or collaboration with other non profits of for profit companies.

 

When You Collaborate you lose some control over the project.  this is what is happening.

A ton of pics from the New Arts Campus (The Middough Building) under construction. Basically a lot of pics of white walls, it's gets better toward the end.

http://www.csuohio.edu/news/inthenews/2012/01/010512.html

Cleveland State University's innovative engineering program among recommendations for $350 million in capital funds

 

Published: Wednesday, February 15, 2012, 9:00 PM

By Karen Farkas, The Plain Dealer

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Cleveland State University expects to receive $12.7 million from the state to renovate a building for a new engineering program.

Cleveland-based Parker Hannifin Corp. will collaborate with CSU on the new engineering program, which will be housed in Stillwell Hall, an 85-year-old building near Fenn Tower that will be updated to house new laboratories, said CSU President Ronald Berkman.

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2012/02/cleveland_state_universitys_in.html

Demo of the Doan building started today, I was quite surprised to see when I went to class this morning. I am amazed at the speed this project is moving along. Just two months ago I was parking there and now the slab for building one (the first one facing Chester between E21 and E22) is all poured and what looks like stairwells are going up.

Welcome mcgheeda! Thanks for your post. Please contribute more.

 

Which one is the Doan building?

 

And I'm surprised more people (OK -- anyone!) haven't commented on the Parker Hannifin/CSU engineering program going in Stillwell.

Thanks for the welcome!

 

The Doan building on E.22 and Chester was purchased by the university around 2001. As far as I can tell originally the plans were for a parking structure there. Later on when the first master plan came out, the plans called for redevelopment of the building, but clearly that idea was not feasible. Sometime before I started at CSU (in 2009) the university did remove the loading dock area by the parking lot on the corner of 22nd and Chester, but thats really all I know about the Doan.

 

I am excited to see what comes of the Stillwell renovations, as well as whatever the future holds for the new Science building. Our existing science facilities are QUITE outdated to say the least.

Thanks. I couldn't picture the Doan Building. I see it's a little north of Chester, which is probably why I never noticed it. For a second, I thought it was the building that had the Mardi Gras Lounge in it, but the Mardi Gras is on East 21st north of Superior. Ten years ago, THAT was a mafia hangout!

I'm watching them do some demo now and it's amazing to see how much of a fight the old Building is putting up.

 

Very interesting about the mafia hangout too!

Pardon the reflections from the window, but I stitched a few shots from today of the progress/demo.  I actually thought I got the whole site until I got back and realized I couldn't capture the block between E. 23rd and E. 24th, where the buildings are on the right (the CSU Art Building).  I'm guessing they'll be next on the chopping block.  It's going to be a pretty big development site when it's all done.

 

Also of note, beyond the remaining grass area along Chester to the right of the image, they're moving some dirt around into an elongated mound running alongside E. 23rd.  Not sure what that's going to end up being.

 

I grabbed a few quick shots of the demo on my walk to class. The second shows that dirt mound that urbanomics was talking about.

I can almost bet that that dirt will be used to fill in the hole thats going to be left when they remove the slab of the building.

 

 

All of the above pics are beautiful. Just like that we will wipe out a huge chunk of ugliness downtown. And at this point I really don't even care if I am somewhat lukewarm as to the design of the project. I mean who cares, goodbye blight, goodbye decay. And I feel so bad for those who will have to walk another 500 feet. Goodbye surface parking lots. Now we just need something of this scale in the warehouse district. Good things are happening, its just a matter of time.

Thanks for the photos and your contributions to UO!

More on the parking issue (which isn't going away, despite attempts to sweep it under the rug):

 

http://www.csuohio.edu/class/com/clevelandstater/Copy/130901.html

http://www.csucauldron.com/news/this-lot-full-1.2779820#.T0fnA3ns5cF

http://www.csucauldron.com/news/sga-and-city-council-talk-parking-1.2756841#.T0fnBHns5cF

 

And an SGA poll on the topic, with comments below (some hilarious):

 

http://csusga.com/parking-lot-survey/

 

What's clear here is that despite the tiny minority of students that attend CSU and also happen to be urban enthusiasts supporting this massive shift in University policy, a much larger chunk of the student body and faculty is really peeved over this issue.  More and more folks are seeing the University as slapping their current customer base in the face in hopes of making the school attractive to some hypothetical future customer.

Or, as with most cases where people are upset, the participants in that poll are the ones who are hot under the collar.

 

Exhibit 1 from the comments section - Bebe:

This entire system is a joke…no parking, extremely poor internet service ANYWHERE in the law school, bums hanging out all over the law building & using our restrooms. Hmmm…I wonder where our tuition money is going???

 

I wouldn't say that the concerns are being swept under the rug.  They are more or less moot at this point as construction has already begun.  It's spilled milk and probably not an issue we need to discuss in this thread.  There is a more general CSU news and info thread which would be the better place to discuss how to deal with parking going forward.

More on the parking issue (which isn't going away, despite attempts to sweep it under the rug):

 

http://www.csuohio.edu/class/com/clevelandstater/Copy/130901.html

http://www.csucauldron.com/news/this-lot-full-1.2779820#.T0fnA3ns5cF

http://www.csucauldron.com/news/sga-and-city-council-talk-parking-1.2756841#.T0fnBHns5cF

 

And an SGA poll on the topic, with comments below (some hilarious):

 

http://csusga.com/parking-lot-survey/

 

What's clear here is that despite the tiny minority of students that attend CSU and also happen to be urban enthusiasts supporting this massive shift in University policy, a much larger chunk of the student body and faculty is really peeved over this issue.  More and more folks are seeing the University as slapping their current customer base in the face in hopes of making the school attractive to some hypothetical future customer.

 

Holding a forum on this very subject with the President of the University is sweeping the issue under the rug?

 

I attended Kent State before transferring to CSU and I can tell you that all freshman and many sophomores had to park in a lot by the football stadium that was so far away it was only accessible by a bus.

 

CSU's is transforming itself from a commuter campus into a residential campus and that's good for the University and the City.

 

Now go park in the South Garage

 

 

Again, KSU is a bad example because it's a residential university (and in a rural town, no less).  Not much came out of the forum except a lowering of cost to park at the South Garage (which doesn't help much because it's so unattractive to commuters) and a shuttle which I've yet to see anywhere on campus.

 

As I've said numerous times, I already park in the South Garage. 

 

I fully understand that nothing will change with current projects as construction of Berkman's Folly North is already underway.  However the goal is to make CSU administrators think twice in the future before pushing forward with more of these misguided, character-redefining projects. 

 

Also, where is the CSU general news and info thread?

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,10753.0.html

 

And I sincerely hope the Administrators were not swayed toward any notion that we're dealing with a "misguided" character redefining project.  Now knowing that was the theme, I might have to write a letter (and would encourage other alumni to do so as well) to clarify that we love what is going on at CSU and our donations will reflect our appreciation.  Keep up the good work, Mr. Prez!