Good. I've really been thinking Chester could use some expansive lawns to compliment the new Euclid Ave.

Here's a preliminary rendering of the new engineering building. Yay for no unnecessary set backs and useless lawn space!

 

Whoa, color me shocked. Maybe someone from the College of Urban Affairs finally confronted Berkman about how terrible the CIMP is, and they're changing their tune!

Whoa, color me shocked. Maybe someone from the College of Urban Affairs finally confronted Berkman about how terrible the CIMP is, and they're changing their tune!

 

Maybe the CSU admins finally saw Uptown.

Built to the street on Chester; not so on Euclid... I honestly don't know what sense that makes, but I guess they're following the "Green Ribbon" plan that was put in place a few years ago. 

 

At the very least, the building looks decent- better than some of their recent construction.

Here's a preliminary rendering of the new engineering building. Yay for no unnecessary set backs and useless lawn space!

 

It's only preliminary. I'm sure we'll see a lawn fit in there somehow by time the final plans are out...

Here's a preliminary rendering of the new engineering building. Yay for no unnecessary set backs and useless lawn space!

 

It's only preliminary. I'm sure we'll see a lawn fit in there somehow by time the final plans are out...

 

It looks like it was more a response to the site constraints. The CIMP was a full city block to work with.

^ True, the CIMP did have much more space, but if you look at the site area below, the buildings circled in red will be torn down, so there will be a decent amount of space behind the new building. I'm just glad that they're turning it into a courtyard instead of adding the green space on the front side. It will be a significant upgrade over the status quo in that area.

 

Litt has a review of the Center for Innovation in Medical Professions, the Pelli building with the atrocious site plan we love to hate. He likes the front lawn, because of the views it opens up to the cathedral. Weak stuff, IMHO.

 

CSU's new Center for Innovation in Medical Professions features strong design, lots of daylight (photos)

http://www.cleveland.com/architecture/index.ssf/2015/09/csus_new_center_for_innovation.html#incart_river

I expect to be tarred and feathered for this but.....I was walking eastbound down Euclid Ave the other day and passed this site was pleasantly taken aback by the new view of the Cathedral.  The site does expose the church architecture where it was very well concealed before.

 

All that said, the CIMP building is indeed ugly.

I expect to be tarred and feathered for this but.....I was walking eastbound down Euclid Ave the other day and passed this site was pleasantly taken aback by the new view of the Cathedral.  The site does expose the church architecture where it was very well concealed before.

 

All that said, the NEOMD building is indeed ugly.

 

CIMP*, please.

^^ That could have been accomplished with a creative building layout. An inset/cutout at the corner of E.22nd would have given much of the same view without the wide frontage so far from the street.

 

Litt loves himself some views and pointless green space. The CIMP building could have fit comfortably on half of the block.

^ Yeah, the space behind the building on the Prospect side is even greater.

 

I'm in the minority, but I think the new CIMP Building looks beautiful at night from Euclid Avenue. The brightness and the modern look just make it look and feel like a nice college campus. The ceiling in that building is really cool. I hate a setback just as much as the next urban lover, but moving on from beating a dead horse, the building looks impressive at night. Especially if you consider what was there before.

The saving grace is that it is a college.  people are constantly going in and out of the buildings, hanging out, and living nearby.  At least it won't create a complete dead zone like the Applied Industrial Technologies building

I would like to hear what Mr. Litt sees are the benefits for the setback exposing the ugly brick wall on the west side of the structure.  Sure doesn't help that vista.  If one is to comment on how well the building's setback helped than it should talk about all 4 sides.  Epic fail in my opinion.

The horse can't possibly be flogged enough. Picture the block at E.4th bound by Corner alley and Vincenzas at opposite corners demolished for the CIMP building. That's about the same size. What kind of street life are you going to get from a block that large that empty.

^ Yeah, the space behind the building on the Prospect side is even greater.

 

 

Unfortunately, Prospect is getting the proverbial ass-end of a lot of development right now. See also the plans for what's going onto the old Jewish Fed site. That north side stretch of Prospect from 17th through to I-90 is going to be a whole bunch of surface lots, fire escapes, dumpsters and pointless green space. Granted, it's a little better than what's there right now, but sad to see that nothing is serving to fill it out.

 

Hello BTW - first post. Long time lurker...

The horse can't possibly be flogged enough. Picture the block at E.4th bound by Corner alley and Vincenzas at opposite corners demolished for the CIMP building. That's about the same size. What kind of street life are you going to get from a block that large that empty.

 

Okay.. But Euclid/East 4th has a much different vibe and dynamic than Euclid and East 22nd Street  :roll:

The block did not have much street life to begin with. As an alum that lived in Viking Hall, I remember getting weekly emails about how students were being robbed while walking from the South Garage- across Prospect and behind Viking Hall. I think they were aiming for a more inviting and open concept to improve sightlines and the sense of safety. I can see that, for sure. Do I feel the setbacks are a little excessive? Sure. But are they really hurting the area? Not at all. I think the building looks nice now that it's done, but everyone will have their own opinion. Overall, Cleveland State has done an amazing job at transforming that neighborhood. Not everyone will like their building design choices, but their strategies are working and the campus looks great. (Unlike Akron U's/Ohio Poly Something Something Academy)

Welcome, roman totale XVII[/member]! I agree about Prospect. It's almost as if it's a back alley or something, just with a lot of traffic (but soon with a much nicer surface, thankfully).

My contempt for this building is tempered somewhat by the view of the church, but only somewhat.  Significant contempt remains.  I mean, the church was already there, so it really shouldn't count as a feature.

 

I almost choked when Litt heaped praise upon a "facade" of grooved concrete.  No, Litt, a good facade would be the Wolfe building that was destroyed for this.  Or the one across Euclid, which CSU replaced with a poorly-kept vacant lot right in the middle of campus. 

 

There have been some successes... the education building is nice, as is the mixed-use fronting Chester.  But this building looks like it's ashamed to be on Euclid Avenue, ashamed to be downtown. 

Okay.. But Euclid/East 4th has a much different vibe and dynamic than Euclid and East 22nd Street  :roll:

The block did not have much street life to begin with.

Now why do you suppose that is? You can thank decades of poor development patterns for that. My comparison was mostly for a visual to show how large and empty this block now is.

I hate the CIMP and will forever hate the CIMP, and I'm actually kinda shocked how many people here seem to be okay with it. However, I think it's salvageable. The front yard is terrible, but the concept of green space in front of a building is not terrible in and of itself. If they could re-do the front yard as an urban plaza (reminiscent of Perk Plaza), then that space could work just fine. In it's current state, though, it's pretty bad.

In trying to find some silver lining with the building, I will say that the front facade does look better now that the signage has been put up

Okay.. But Euclid/East 4th has a much different vibe and dynamic than Euclid and East 22nd Street  :roll:

The block did not have much street life to begin with.

Now why do you suppose that is? You can thank decades of poor development patterns for that. My comparison was mostly for a visual to show how large and empty this block now is.

I would disagree, but I understand and accept that you have your opinion and I have mine. The building looks great and will create foot traffic whether or not there's a setback. Moving on.

You know what else created foot traffic? The pizza place and concert club that the university bought out and replaced mostly with empty lawn. A site plan with no set back that kept those would have more foot traffic, not the same amount.

^True, but I'm not so down on this.  Putting aside aesthetics, I would bet this building will create more foot traffic on that side of Euclid than what was there (yes, I realize that 5 +1 is more than just 5).  As much as CSU is bashed on here, the increase in foot traffic over the past several years on the CSU stretch of Euclid is amazing to me and I applaud the university for its contribution to the downtown scene. 

I think we're all thrilled to see CSU add so much life to this part of downtown, and it does deserve tons of credit for that. But that doesn't make this particular building any less annoying, given that it could have added even more foot traffic had it not wiped out some operating businesses along the way. So more activity than before the project (yay!); less activity than could easily have been accommodated on such an enormous site (boo!).

 

[EDITED to be more agreeable]

I also agree with the comment upthread that opening up the view of the church from the west has a nice effect

So this building's greatest attribute is getting out of the way.  Nice work Pelli (sarcasm).

My bad for pissing on the negativity festival. Carry on

My bad for pissing on the negativity festival. Carry on

 

RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

Cleveland State University's historic Mather Mansion has reopened for events

 

"Cleveland State University has completed about $2.7 million in renovations to the 43-room Tudor mansion.

 

It will house several university departments, including alumni relations, a program to teach English as a second language and conference services.

 

Rooms on the first and second floors are available for rent for meetings and conferences beginning Oct. 1. The third floor ballroom is not renovated."

 

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2015/09/cleveland_state_universitys_hi.html#incart_river

Cleveland State University's historic Mather Mansion has reopened for events

 

"Cleveland State University has completed about $2.7 million in renovations to the 43-room Tudor mansion.

 

It will house several university departments, including alumni relations, a program to teach English as a second language and conference services.

 

Rooms on the first and second floors are available for rent for meetings and conferences beginning Oct. 1. The third floor ballroom is not renovated."

 

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2015/09/cleveland_state_universitys_hi.html#incart_river

 

Is this the mansion they have opened up to proposals to developers a couple years back?

Don't think we have seen this rendering of the engineering building. The Chester building is scheduled for demo late summer '16 with new building competed late 2017. https://www.csuohio.edu/architect/neb-new-engineering-building

 

 

 

 

Design for Campus International School wins city planning commission approval (photos)

By Steven Litt, The Plain Dealer

on February 08, 2016 at 8:42 AM, updated February 08, 2016 at 12:50 PM

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio – A handsome if spare design for the new Campus International School in downtown Cleveland won final approval from the city's Planning Commission Friday after tweaks intended to warm up a visually cool exterior and to clarify traffic flow.

 

"I think you accomplished everything we asked you to accomplish," David Bowen, the commission's vice chair, said just before the unanimous approval of the design, speaking to Jeff Henderson of the Cleveland Educational Design Alliance, which submitted the project for review on Friday.

 

The four-story, $24.2 million school building, which will house a popular and successful collaboration between the Cleveland Metropolitan School District and Cleveland State University, was originally scheduled for completion in 2016, but was then pushed back to 2017.

 

MORE:

http://www.cleveland.com/architecture/index.ssf/2016/02/design_for_campus_internationa.html

Here's a preliminary rendering of the new engineering building. Yay for no unnecessary set backs and useless lawn space!

 

 

Looks like you spoke too soon!  CSU just can't resist.

At least they won't have to mow all that concrete.

Just a nice pic of the much maligned NEOMED building.  I know the lawn, the lawn. But I do like the way it opened up that whole side of the Trinity Cathedral.

(Photo-Cleveland Aerial Media).

You should show a picture of the Prospect intersection too.

You should show a picture of the Prospect intersection too.

 

Could your comment be any more Cleveland.com worthy?

:shoot:

I'd say my post has a little more insight than a Cleveland.com post.

It's a lovely photo of a terrible building set in the middle of what should be an active, dense urban block facing E22nd, Euclid & Prospect, that continues the building wall of the city eastward. Instead, it's none of those.

It's a pedestrian activity killer and thus makes the area feel less safe and vibrant. I wish the architects of these buildings would sit for a couple of hours and watch an urban university setting with lots of pedestrian activity to see why there's so much activity. I think they will find that their buildings are placed and designed, especially on the ground floor, quite differently.

^That was a CSU directive to have all that green space, not the architect imposing that site layout on CSU.

^That was a CSU directive to have all that green space, not the architect imposing that site layout on CSU.

 

Then CSU sucks.

 

EDIT: CSU reminds me of a neighbor of ours in Geauga County who bought a wooded lot and then cut down all the trees to make an open, grassy lot. I asked him why he didn't just buy one of the grassy lots, and all he could respond with was "because I liked this lot." Whatever....

^agree

It's a pedestrian activity killer and thus makes the area feel less safe and vibrant. I wish the architects of these buildings would sit for a couple of hours and watch an urban university setting with lots of pedestrian activity to see why there's so much activity. I think they will find that their buildings are placed and designed, especially on the ground floor, quite differently.

 

Less safe?? Okay, I understand that not everyone has to like the building, but less safe? Because of a small grassy lawn between the road and the building (that actually looks really nice)?  Can we compare how 'unsafe' people felt five years ago and how they feel now in that area?  :wtf:

Fewer pedestrians makes an area feel less safe. Read (or just scan the pictures):

http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/topics/land-use/how-bad-urban-design-makes-san-diego-feel-unsafe/

Fewer pedestrians makes an area feel less safe. Read (or just scan the pictures):

http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/topics/land-use/how-bad-urban-design-makes-san-diego-feel-unsafe/

 

The setback is not altering the number of pedestrians, though. Students use the building for class, whether there is a setback or not. The student center (across the street) also has a setback from the street and there is a constant presence of people in front of it all day.

 

The concept in the article is hopefully understood by everyone on this board, but I don't think the negative scenarios it describes apply to this situation. Most of the scenarios that presented an "unsafe" environment included an electrical box in the middle of the sidewalk, chain link fences, and parking lots with no clear sidewalk. In CSU's case, they've installed a modern green space with lighting, benches, landscaping, and a pleasant view all around. Honestly, it's quite enjoyable to walk through there. I don't think there's a basis for thinking this building and its setback creates an unsafe environment. I guess we will agree to disagree.

 

The setback is not altering the number of pedestrians, though. Students use the building for class, whether there is a setback or not. The student center (across the street) also has a setback from the street and there is a constant presence of people in front of it all day.

 

What about the night? Rascal House generated a lot of foot traffic all day long, not just during school hours. I'm not suggesting they kept the pizza shop but a better site plan would have incorporated mixed use on that block. Rather than green grass on one side and parking lot on the other.