March 20, 20214 yr The Wolstein is still too big. I do think they should tear it down but also replace it with a more properly sized arena. The wolstein center should always exist. Just not in its current form, in my opinion. I’ve already laid out before the issues with booking the wolstein, and CSU does not invest nearly enough on a regular and consistent basis in its basketball team to keep the interest generated year after year. Now if they’re gonna do that, and can actually put 13,000 butts in seats year in and year out, that would be a game changer
March 20, 20214 yr I didn't believe that because it sounds way to stupid to be true. But looking on Google Streetview on the west side of the building, it appears that there is indeed only one loading bay, and that it is at grade, not a truck dock. That means that every single thing that would be loaded out of a semi trailer would have to be brought down by a forklift or a liftgate, which would be excruciatingly slow for a large tour or event. And that's only for one truck at a time.
March 20, 20214 yr Just now, Boomerang_Brian said: Someone who apparently works at the RoMoFiHo in concert events posted this as a response to Ken’s article: “Wolstein Center was built with no docks for trucks, what show, concert or event wants to rent a venue where loading and unloading is close to impossible.” “[Decisions made] 30+ years ago but still amazingly short-sighted. Working at Rocket Mortgage Feildhouse we hear of 'events' that decided to go elsewhere all the time. “ This seems so odd. Is anyone familiar with those details? What would it take to modify the Wolstein to work better for concerts and events? I agree that it would be silly to tear it down and replace it. I like the idea of ringing it with student residential. Also, VERY glad to hear Sasaki is doing the master plan. I like what I’ve seen from them. Hopefully transit becomes part of the plan. Considering the tremendous cost that went into upgrading Rocket Mortgage Field House during the last two years, how much would it cost to add docks to improve the situation for Wolstein? Much, much less than building a new and smaller facility. Removing Wolstein from the picture would however remove competition for RMFH.
March 20, 20214 yr 26 minutes ago, LifeLongClevelander said: Considering the tremendous cost that went into upgrading Rocket Mortgage Field House during the last two years, how much would it cost to add docks to improve the situation for Wolstein? Much, much less than building a new and smaller facility. Removing Wolstein from the picture would however remove competition for RMFH. Wolstein Center is NOT competition for RoMoFiHo. First off, once we get back to normal, the latter will be used well over 200 times per year. It wouldn’t have THAT many more dates it could be used anyway and it is a much larger facility. It will continue to attract the larger events, regardless of what happens at CSU. Wolstein is the only venue size wise between Public Auditorium and RoMoFiHo. It could host many more events, and now I have a better understanding of why it hasn’t. When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?
March 20, 20214 yr 49 minutes ago, Boomerang_Brian said: Wolstein Center is NOT competition for RoMoFiHo. First off, once we get back to normal, the latter will be used well over 200 times per year. It wouldn’t have THAT many more dates it could be used anyway and it is a much larger facility. It will continue to attract the larger events, regardless of what happens at CSU. Wolstein is the only venue size wise between Public Auditorium and RoMoFiHo. It could host many more events, and now I have a better understanding of why it hasn’t. Most certainly Wolstein Center needs improvements, but the whole initial design of Wolstein was influenced so that it could limit its "attractiveness" for other events. The lack of ice making capability was part of part of that reasoning. If Wolstein did have improved loading facilities and the ability to be used as an ice arena, it would be a significant competitor to RoMoFiHo. The forces behind the original Gateway development knew it. There are quite a few possible events that don't need 20,000 seats and 13,000 would be more than enough. Level the "playing field" with those sorts of improvements and it would make a difference. That is what I meant by my statement.
March 20, 20214 yr 2 hours ago, LifeLongClevelander said: Most certainly Wolstein Center needs improvements, but the whole initial design of Wolstein was influenced so that it could limit its "attractiveness" for other events. The lack of ice making capability was part of part of that reasoning. If Wolstein did have improved loading facilities and the ability to be used as an ice arena, it would be a significant competitor to RoMoFiHo. The forces behind the original Gateway development knew it. There are quite a few possible events that don't need 20,000 seats and 13,000 would be more than enough. Level the "playing field" with those sorts of improvements and it would make a difference. That is what I meant by my statement. Thank you for that perspective. I think we are mostly agreeing - although now I'm seeing how that traditional Cleveland provincial thinking could have lead to purposeful limiting of the Wolstein Center. It seems so strange to consider it competition. It feels like one of those situations where one local entity considers another local entity competition, when the reality is that other regions are the real competition. The issues of the Wolstein cause not only that arena to lose events, but for Cleveland to completely miss them. Ice-making facilities seem like a stretch to me. Is the layout even large enough for a full rink on the floor? (Although I suppose even that could be changed with enough money.) I mean, it's worth evaluating, it just seems unlikely to be worth it. But the loading dock situation for sure needs a significant upgrade. And once we get our downtown Rapid rail loop, it will be really easy to get to Wolstein and CSU without a car. (Wink emoji.) Thus, making it even more attractive for events that aren't big enough to fill the RoMoFiHo or can't fit in the bigger arena's schedule. When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?
March 21, 20214 yr 11 hours ago, Boomerang_Brian said: Someone who apparently works at the RoMoFiHo in concert events posted this as a response to Ken’s article: “Wolstein Center was built with no docks for trucks, what show, concert or event wants to rent a venue where loading and unloading is close to impossible.” “[Decisions made] 30+ years ago but still amazingly short-sighted. Working at Rocket Mortgage Feildhouse we hear of 'events' that decided to go elsewhere all the time. “ This seems so odd. Is anyone familiar with those details? What would it take to modify the Wolstein to work better for concerts and events? I agree that it would be silly to tear it down and replace it. I like the idea of ringing it with student residential. Also, VERY glad to hear Sasaki is doing the master plan. I like what I’ve seen from them. Hopefully transit becomes part of the plan. The poster is right--there are no loading docks at the Wolstein Center. Close to impossible? This guy must be an idiot. There are arenas and venues all over the world without loading docks. Nothing a ramp or forklift can't overcome. It just takes slightly longer.
March 21, 20214 yr 7 hours ago, LifeLongClevelander said: Most certainly Wolstein Center needs improvements, but the whole initial design of Wolstein was influenced so that it could limit its "attractiveness" for other events. The lack of ice making capability was part of part of that reasoning. If Wolstein did have improved loading facilities and the ability to be used as an ice arena, it would be a significant competitor to RoMoFiHo. The forces behind the original Gateway development knew it. There are quite a few possible events that don't need 20,000 seats and 13,000 would be more than enough. Level the "playing field" with those sorts of improvements and it would make a difference. That is what I meant by my statement. Wolstein is not and would not be a competitor to RMFH in any way, shape or form. Most big shows want the prestige of being at the big arena in town, which is RMFH. Wolstein at 13,000 is the worst of both worlds. It’s too small for shows that go to RMFH (who typically wouldn’t want to go to Wolstein anyway) and it’s too big for shows that end up going to either Playhouse Square, HOB, Agora, etc. Also, they don’t offer any ticket guarantees for the promoter, which is another reason why promoters don’t like booking there. Not to mention the general outdatedness of the building. RMFH ain’t worried. Even if Wolstein was upgraded and retrofitted to what it needs to be, it would likely be getting events that wouldn’t be at RMFH regardless. And that’s NOT A BAD THING. We do miss events by not having a viable arena smaller than the big dog. So a viable Wolstein would help the city tremendously. But let’s keep it 100, it’s not competition for RMFH. It’s just not
March 21, 20214 yr 18 minutes ago, Cleburger said: The poster is right--there are no loading docks at the Wolstein Center. Close to impossible? This guy must be an idiot. There are arenas and venues all over the world without loading docks. Nothing a ramp or forklift can't overcome. It just takes slightly longer. It matters. Probably not as much as the poster says it does, but it is relevant
March 21, 20214 yr 1 minute ago, inlovewithCLE said: Wolstein is not and would not be a competitor to RMFH in any way, shape or form. Most big shows want the prestige of being at the big arena in town, which is RMFH. Wolstein at 13,000 is the worst of both worlds. It’s too small for shows that go to RMFH (who typically wouldn’t want to go to Wolstein anyway) and it’s too big for shows that end up going to either Playhouse Square, HOB, Agora, etc. Also, they don’t offer any ticket guarantees for the promoter, which is another reason why promoters don’t like booking there. Not to mention the general outdatedness of the building. RMFH ain’t worried. Even if Wolstein was upgraded and retrofitted to what it needs to be, it would likely be getting events that wouldn’t be at RMFH regardless. And that’s NOT A BAD THING. We do miss events by not having a viable arena smaller than the big dog. So a viable Wolstein would help the city tremendously. But let’s keep it 100, it’s not competition for RMFH. It’s just not Wolstein can be and is a competitor to RMFH in it's lower-bowl only configuration with the upper deck curtained off. It is an option for promoters, agents and managers to leverage in the market. Not sure what you mean by "ticket guarantees?" Also in regards to promoters, I would say RMFH has a leg up in that they are privately managed so can wheel-and-deal more. The Wolstein was much more competitive when it was actively managed by SMG, rather than the University itself. Government entities are hamstrung by contracts and can't accept loss-leader deals or similar to get other business like RMFH can.
March 21, 20214 yr 1 hour ago, Cleburger said: Wolstein can be and is a competitor to RMFH in it's lower-bowl only configuration with the upper deck curtained off. It is an option for promoters, agents and managers to leverage in the market. Not sure what you mean by "ticket guarantees?" Also in regards to promoters, I would say RMFH has a leg up in that they are privately managed so can wheel-and-deal more. The Wolstein was much more competitive when it was actively managed by SMG, rather than the University itself. Government entities are hamstrung by contracts and can't accept loss-leader deals or similar to get other business like RMFH can. The RMFH typically guarantees payment in advance of the show, which CSU won’t/can’t do
March 21, 20214 yr 9 hours ago, inlovewithCLE said: The RMFH typically guarantees payment in advance of the show, which CSU won’t/can’t do This 100% not true. At any show, the owner of the ticketing system holds the revenue until after the show plays, The next day the funds are distributed to the venue and promoter. There are no "guarantees" in payments except to artists, which has nothing to do with the venue (in 99.9% of the cases).
March 21, 20214 yr 16 hours ago, Boomerang_Brian said: Thank you for that perspective. I think we are mostly agreeing - although now I'm seeing how that traditional Cleveland provincial thinking could have lead to purposeful limiting of the Wolstein Center. It seems so strange to consider it competition. It feels like one of those situations where one local entity considers another local entity competition, when the reality is that other regions are the real competition. The issues of the Wolstein cause not only that arena to lose events, but for Cleveland to completely miss them. Ice-making facilities seem like a stretch to me. Is the layout even large enough for a full rink on the floor? (Although I suppose even that could be changed with enough money.) I mean, it's worth evaluating, it just seems unlikely to be worth it. But the loading dock situation for sure needs a significant upgrade. And once we get our downtown Rapid rail loop, it will be really easy to get to Wolstein and CSU without a car. (Wink emoji.) Thus, making it even more attractive for events that aren't big enough to fill the RoMoFiHo or can't fit in the bigger arena's schedule. I do believe the floor area of the Wolstein Center is the standard size for a regulation hockey rink. The indoor soccer leagues based their field size and layout on the area used for hockey arenas. I attended indoor soccer games at the old Richfield Coliseum and Wolstein Center. The playing area at Richfield was regulation as was the area at Wolstein. There were other indoor soccer venues like where the Baltimore team played that were non-standard (for example, in Baltimore to balance things out, the teams would switch benches for the second half). As for seating capacity, there have been ice shows held at RoMoFiHo where there was ample excess capacity that would have been translated to less than a full house if they were held at Wolstein. Agree with you wholeheartedly that better rail access to Wolstein would greatly appeal to those who want to attend events at that facility. The current way of reaching Wolstein via mass transit is inconvenient and slow as it would involve transfers to most and have to deal with surface traffic.
March 21, 20214 yr 10 hours ago, Cleburger said: This 100% not true. At any show, the owner of the ticketing system holds the revenue until after the show plays, The next day the funds are distributed to the venue and promoter. There are no "guarantees" in payments except to artists, which has nothing to do with the venue (in 99.9% of the cases). A. I’ve worked in promotions and with promoters for shows/concerts. B. What I’ve said was also written nearly verbatim in Cleveland.com
March 21, 20214 yr 1 minute ago, inlovewithCLE said: A. I’ve worked in promotions and with promoters for shows/concerts. B. What I’ve said was also written nearly verbatim in Cleveland.com I've been touring for 25 years. I've settled shows around the world, in stadiums, arenas and festivals with some of the biggest rock bands in the world. Trust me--I know more than Cleveland.com when it comes to the finances of live entertainment.
March 21, 20214 yr Just now, Cleburger said: I've been touring for 25 years. I've settled shows around the world, in stadiums, arenas and festivals with some of the biggest rock bands in the world. Trust me--I know more than Cleveland.com when it comes to the finances of live entertainment. Since we’re listing resumes, I got about 15 years in the entertainment industry so you got me by about 10. But regardless of whether you give credence to Cleveland.com or not, this has this been told to me directly and has been a part of events I’ve either directly participated in or helped promote when I was doing that on a more regular basis. But here’s the specific quote. Whether they are still doing it or not, I don’t know. Haven’t participated in a while and this article was in 2013. But to say it’s absolutely not true is...well...not true lol ”Quicken Loans Arena, which has 20,000 seats and is located within walking distance of downtown hotels and restaurants, is willing to close off parts of the building for acts and also guarantees payment in advance of the show, which CSU doesn’t want to do because it could lead to financial losses, she said.” https://www.cleveland.com/metro/2013/09/cleveland_state_universitys_wo.html
March 22, 20214 yr 3 minutes ago, inlovewithCLE said: Since we’re listing resumes, I got about 15 years in the entertainment industry so you got me by about 10. But regardless of whether you give credence to Cleveland.com or not, this has this been told to me directly and has been a part of events I’ve either directly participated in or helped promote when I was doing that on a more regular basis. But here’s the specific quote. Whether they are still doing it or not, I don’t know. Haven’t participated in a while and this article was in 2013. But to say it’s absolutely not true is...well...not true lol ”Quicken Loans Arena, which has 20,000 seats and is located within walking distance of downtown hotels and restaurants, is willing to close off parts of the building for acts and also guarantees payment in advance of the show, which CSU doesn’t want to do because it could lead to financial losses, she said.” https://www.cleveland.com/metro/2013/09/cleveland_state_universitys_wo.html It's not true. I have dealt with journalists before who conflate promoters, agents and artists and where they fit into the the scheme of things. They are probably talking about promoter guarantees to artists, or maybe rent reductions for losing shows, which is an entirely different topic. We can agree to disagree, and I'd love to meet up someday after COVID and compare notes over some beers! Always nice to know people in my home market.
March 22, 20214 yr Just now, Cleburger said: It's not true. I have dealt with journalists before who conflate promoters, agents and artists and where they fit into the the scheme of things. They are probably talking about promoter guarantees to artists, or maybe rent reductions for losing shows, which is an entirely different topic. We can agree to disagree, and I'd love to meet up someday after COVID and compare notes over some beers! Always nice to know people in my home market. Well I know what I’ve been told as well and it dovetails with what they reported. and yes, would love to compare notes one day. My work is predominantly in a different musical genre than yours so that would be interesting to compare notes
March 22, 20214 yr 1 minute ago, inlovewithCLE said: Well I know what I’ve been told as well and it dovetails with what they reported. and yes, would love to compare notes one day. My work is predominantly in a different musical genre than yours so that would be interesting to compare notes Since we continuing this debate on the merits of Cleveland.com, what does this mean, included in the same sentence? ”Quicken Loans Arena, which has 20,000 seats and is located within walking distance of downtown hotels and restaurants, is willing to close off parts of the building for acts and also guarantees payment in advance of the show, which CSU doesn’t want to do because it could lead to financial losses, she said.”
March 22, 20214 yr Just now, Cleburger said: Since we continuing this debate on the merits of Cleveland.com, what does this mean, included in the same sentence? ”Quicken Loans Arena, which has 20,000 seats and is located within walking distance of downtown hotels and restaurants, is willing to close off parts of the building for acts and also guarantees payment in advance of the show, which CSU doesn’t want to do because it could lead to financial losses, she said.” So what I’ve seen as far as the Q goes (or, RMFH, u get my point) and this kinda goes to my other point earlier about people just wanting the prestige of being there, I read that as the capacity. Because I do know that there are artists who go to RMFH who have no way and no intent whatsoever of selling out the place but still want to perform there because of the prestige of being at the big arena and want it to look sold out so RMFH will typically reconfigure the arena to their specifications. I have not seen that at Wolstein. I’ve seen them curtain certain parts of the arena, right, so that you don’t see those seats, but they ain’t moving them lol. So when I read that, that’s how I interpreted it, and I do know that they do that. If they were referring to anything else on that, then idk lol. When I read it, that’s how I interpreted it
March 22, 20214 yr From what I’ve seen, what you see is pretty much what you get with Wolstein, whereas RMFH will configure to the act’s specifications
March 22, 20214 yr 2 minutes ago, inlovewithCLE said: So what I’ve seen as far as the Q goes (or, RMFH, u get my point) and this kinda goes to my other point earlier about people just wanting the prestige of being there, I read that as the capacity. Because I do know that there are artists who go to RMFH who have no way and no intent whatsoever of selling out the place but still want to perform there because of the prestige of being at the big arena and want it to look sold out so RMFH will typically reconfigure the arena to their specifications. I have not seen that at Wolstein. I’ve seen them curtain certain parts of the arena, right, so that you don’t see those seats, but they ain’t moving them lol. So when I read that, that’s how I interpreted it, and I do know that they do that. If they were referring to anything else on that, then idk lol. When I read it, that’s how I interpreted it Well I can tell you Wolstein would have no problem curtaining parts of the arena if an artist demanded it and someone was willing to pay for it. With this being said, and keeping on topic, RMFH is much better equipped to do so with an in-house upper bowl arena curtaining system. My point of all this is that Wolstein Center, by its very existence in the market, is a legitimate competitor to RMFH. A promoter or manager can pit the two against each other for the best rent deal. As it stands, RMFH is much better at it, and also offers the "premier" play in the Cleveland market.
March 22, 20214 yr Just now, Cleburger said: Well I can tell you Wolstein would have no problem curtaining parts of the arena if an artist demanded it and someone was willing to pay for it. With this being said, and keeping on topic, RMFH is much better equipped to do so with an in-house upper bowl arena curtaining system. My point of all this is that Wolstein Center, by its very existence in the market, is a legitimate competitor to RMFH. A promoter or manager can pit the two against each other for the best rent deal. As it stands, RMFH is much better at it, and also offers the "premier" play in the Cleveland market. And I guess that’s where the disagreement lies in the first place. I don’t see them as a competitor. Partially because they’re not really positioned to compete with anything right now, and also because I see them as a different target market. RMFH is like our MSG, that’s how it’s viewed in comparison to Wolstein. To me, I think Wolstein should be smaller and they will be in a much better position to bring in acts who wouldn’t be here otherwise. The acts that are too big for House of Blues and Agora but not big enough for RMFH and don’t care about not being there. There’s a TON of acts like that, especially in the urban market. Some of those concerts we end up not getting at all. So some of those aren’t an option for RMFH. A relevant Wolstein could grab those, and that’s an addition to the market, not a competition with RMFH. There are also things they could (and should) do to grow the basketball program and have people coming there on a regular as well. I’ll leave it at that because I’m not giving free advice (lol) but if they were right fitted, I believe they would be getting acts and groups that wouldn’t be in the market at all otherwise (which is a GOOD thing), not necessarily competing with RMFH
March 22, 20214 yr 5 minutes ago, inlovewithCLE said: And I guess that’s where the disagreement lies in the first place. I don’t see them as a competitor. Partially because they’re not really positioned to compete with anything right now, and also because I see them as a different target market. RMFH is like our MSG, that’s how it’s viewed in comparison to Wolstein. To me, I think Wolstein should be smaller and they will be in a much better position to bring in acts who wouldn’t be here otherwise. The acts that are too big for House of Blues and Agora but not big enough for RMFH and don’t care about not being there. There’s a TON of acts like that, especially in the urban market. Some of those concerts we end up not getting at all. So some of those aren’t an option for RMFH. A relevant Wolstein could grab those, and that’s an addition to the market, not a competition with RMFH. There are also things they could (and should) do to grow the basketball program and have people coming there on a regular as well. I’ll leave it at that because I’m not giving free advice (lol) but if they were right fitted, I believe they would be getting acts and groups that wouldn’t be in the market at all otherwise (which is a GOOD thing), not necessarily competing with RMFH Like many other things in Cleveland's infrastructure, we have WAY more venues than a similar sized city. Don't forget that Public Hall is also a competitor with Wolstein and RMFH. The City of Cleveland is just an awful venue operator, so they don't land many shows.
March 22, 20214 yr Just now, Cleburger said: Like many other things in Cleveland's infrastructure, we have WAY more venues than a similar sized city. Don't forget that Public Hall is also a competitor with Wolstein and RMFH. The City of Cleveland is just an awful venue operator, so they don't land many shows. Man I don’t even count Public Hall! Lol. I get what you’re saying though
March 22, 20214 yr 2 minutes ago, Cleburger said: Like many other things in Cleveland's infrastructure, we have WAY more venues than a similar sized city. Don't forget that Public Hall is also a competitor with Wolstein and RMFH. The City of Cleveland is just an awful venue operator, so they don't land many shows. Why doesnt Cleveland hire a professional operator for the venue and try to make money off it? Maybe the concert venue discussion should be moved somewhere else. Edited March 22, 20214 yr by freefourur
March 22, 20214 yr Just now, freefourur said: Why doesnt Cleveland hire a professional operator for the venue and try to make money off it? Because, like my grandmother (RIP) used to say, “that sounds too much like right”. Lol
March 22, 20214 yr 1 minute ago, freefourur said: Why doesnt Cleveland hire a professional operator for the venue and try to make money off it? See Westside Market--similar problem and the city likes to spend money on "consultants" and keep their own people on payroll running it. 1 minute ago, freefourur said: Maybe the concert venue discussion should be moved somewhere else. Agreed. We have enough of them to support a thread!
March 22, 20214 yr 9 minutes ago, Cleburger said: Like many other things in Cleveland's infrastructure, we have WAY more venues than a similar sized city. Don't forget that Public Hall is also a competitor with Wolstein and RMFH. The City of Cleveland is just an awful venue operator, so they don't land many shows. We have quite a few venues, I agree with you there, but I think very few of them are diverse enough to differentiate themselves. This is still a place, for example, that’s around 50 percent black and nowhere near the amount of urban shows that we should have in this market. And I’m not even just talking about hip-hop, but legacy R&B acts have a hard time getting the right venue too. I was working directly with a legacy R&B act who is also FROM CLEVELAND who still struggled to getting the right venue for his needs and his audience and even a desire to do it. It was a freakin nightmare. I’ve seen legacy R&B acts go down to Akron and other places instead of performing in market. I was working with another R&B artist who BELONGED in an arena and ended up having to go to one of the theaters (before COVID shut everything down). So yes we do have a lot of venues, but most of them typically are targeting the same genre or variations of that same genre. We need more hip hop shows, more R&B shows, more legacy R&B shows, more Latin and reggaeton shows (the lack of booking in a city with a large Hispanic population is embarrassing). But that’s a conversation for a different day. Getting on topic, it’s one of the reasons why I want Wolstein to get it right because they could be in position to get those acts Edited March 22, 20214 yr by inlovewithCLE
March 22, 20214 yr On 3/20/2021 at 10:30 AM, Boomerang_Brian said: Someone who apparently works at the RoMoFiHo in concert events posted this as a response to Ken’s article: “Wolstein Center was built with no docks for trucks, what show, concert or event wants to rent a venue where loading and unloading is close to impossible.” “[Decisions made] 30+ years ago but still amazingly short-sighted. Working at Rocket Mortgage Feildhouse we hear of 'events' that decided to go elsewhere all the time. “ This seems so odd. Is anyone familiar with those details? What would it take to modify the Wolstein to work better for concerts and events? I agree that it would be silly to tear it down and replace it. I like the idea of ringing it with student residential. Also, VERY glad to hear Sasaki is doing the master plan. I like what I’ve seen from them. Hopefully transit becomes part of the plan. Wiz Khalifa performed at Wolstein a few years ago, that assertion makes no sense
March 22, 20214 yr I have a legitimate question, but first I need to loosely disclose my age by saying I haven't attended a concert in a large arena for perhaps 40 years. Is there a difference in the acoustic quality in these various large venues such as Wolstein Center or RMFH or does all the sound get amplified so much with huge speaker stacks that it is a moot point? Sorry for the interruption. Please carry on your conversation about loading docks or the lack thereof. 😉 D.O.
March 22, 20214 yr 12 hours ago, DO_Summers said: I have a legitimate question, but first I need to loosely disclose my age by saying I haven't attended a concert in a large arena for perhaps 40 years. Is there a difference in the acoustic quality in these various large venues such as Wolstein Center or RMFH or does all the sound get amplified so much with huge speaker stacks that it is a moot point? Sorry for the interruption. Please carry on your conversation about loading docks or the lack thereof. 😉 D.O. Back when you went to arena shows there were some that were much better than others. Now most of them built since the 1980's have acoustic treatments in the ceilings and walls that deaden the sound and minimize reflections. This combined with modern sound reinforcement technology means that concert goers are treated to a fairly consistent sound no matter what arena they are in. Back to the Wolstein....
March 26, 20214 yr Reimagining or even replacing Rhodes Tower was mentioned as a possibility in my 1st CSU masterplan article last Summer. In the concept at left, it looks like they added five floors to the tower. In the concept at right, it looks like the floorplates were widened and a 2- to 3-story cosmetic extension was added. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 26, 20214 yr As an alum of CSU, this would single handedly change the perception of our campus. Rhodes tower was always the butt of jokes. It is funny because most of my friends when I was at school had no idea what brutalist architecture was, but they all had the same comments when having to go into Rhodes "Man, that place is just depressing"
March 26, 20214 yr I know Rhodes has some problems, but I'll say it's a good example of brutalist architecture and would want to keep it around. It just sticks out like a sore thumb because nothing's around it. Give it some density and maybe it wouldn't look so off to outsiders. #BrutalistGang lol
March 26, 20214 yr However this plan shakes out, I just hope there's an effort to be put a real there there among the meh "green ribbon" of outdoor space. I dislike that Gwathmey Siegel student center for a few reasons, but I still can't believe how utterly uninterested the university was in creating high quality outdoor space adjacent to a supposed hub of student life.
March 26, 20214 yr Anything would make Rhodes a better building! It's a wonderful Brutalist work when viewing from afar, (In fact I think it has a very pleasing and successful appearance.) but I'm willing to let go of the look in favor of improved functionality like effective building systems; space efficiency; HVAC; Telecom; Plumbing... You name it! LOL - #ThatBuildingIsGrim Edited March 26, 20214 yr by ExPatClevGuy
March 26, 20214 yr Can we talk about how they want to add 4,500 additional students and doubling the amount of students in on campus housing in like four years? That has to be a typo. Maybe not, though? That would completely change that part of downtown. Edited March 26, 20214 yr by KFM44107 Fixed a statistical error
March 26, 20214 yr ^That amount of enrollment would push the student pop to over 20,000 for the first time in years. And having 4.500 more young people living downtown? Thats very promising :-)
March 26, 20214 yr They've also said in a recent press release, regarding President Sands contract extension, that admissions were "up significantly" and that "CSU ranks fourth among public universities in Ohio for enrollment trending in Fall 2020". Could only assume that the new partnerships and initiatives should serve to further increase enrollment.
March 26, 20214 yr Adding that many students in an era when a lot of colleges and universities are struggling, and students continue to question the value of college debt, this seems like wishful thinking. But it would be great if they can make it happen.
March 26, 20214 yr If local students realize they can rein in college debt by attending a local university vs attending an out-of-town university, it is possible.
March 26, 20214 yr What's the "completed building" to "new master plan" ratio at CSU these days? Seems like they always have a new plan underway.
March 26, 20214 yr Hearing from someone I know that works at the college that are in on some of these meetings, I guess they would be cutting some jobs in order for this kind of stuff to happen.
March 26, 20214 yr From CSU.... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 26, 20214 yr The old joke from my own CSU days goes... 😉 Edited March 26, 20214 yr by ExPatClevGuy
March 26, 20214 yr During the holidays, they used to leave lights on at night in the pattern of a Christmas tree.
March 26, 20214 yr I know Rhodes Tower isn't exactly easy on the eyes, but the views from it, especially the top floor* (before it was closed) are outstanding. I mean - c'mon, it was good enough for Hollywood (well, after a little touchup, but hey, it's Hollywood)! 😉 clevelandskyscrapers.com Cleveland Skyscrapers on Instagram
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