I think you guys are being too harsh here.  The big lawn faces the jail, while there are bars/restaurants along Reading.  Having that street frontage tight along Reading has the potential to do a lot for Pendleton, if traffic can be slowed along Reading and a few crosswalks are put in.  While I hate the fact that Broadway will be closed, I hope the lawn replacing it will at least be utilized as an event lawn or something.  If nothing else, at least there is potential to put something there eventually if the casino area becomes popular. 

 

I’m a little disappointed in the triangle area between Broadway and Central Parkway, but I’m excited to see how things end up along Reading.

 

^I agree.  It's a casino that provides some street frontage along Reading, and a buffer zone between it and the jail.

 

I'm sick of Neilworms and others complaining about new developments being crap accross the board in Cincinnati.  There are some examples of bad urban design and poor infill development in Cincinnati, but to imply that we are more affected by these things than other cities is ridiculous.  Stetson Square, the new Mariemont developments, the infill built at the foot of the Roebling in Covington, Michigan Square in Hyde Park, etc are all examples of quality projects that have been built here.  I'm particularly baffled by the continued use of Chicago as a model for infill, as I was just there and was totally disgusted by much of the premier Lincoln Park infill architecture.  For quality infill and urban design inspiration, cities like Washington DC and Seattle might be better to look at.

I think people are getting their panties all in a bunch over this project.  Does Atlas even like Cincinnati? and secondly, the jail shouldn't have anything to do with the casino and yet, people keep bringing it up.  Who gives a crap that the casino is close to the jail? What difference does it make?  Do you honestly think that whores, prostitutes and whatever else people fear the casino might bring would commit that many crimes so close to a jail to begin with?  People in this city really don't know how to actually enjoy it.

I want to ask, is there a better casino design anywhere?  Casino's are notoriously HORRIBLY designed when it comes to anything outside of Vegas. I can't think of a "great" Casino design. I would love to see a photo if someone has a suggestion.

There is an irreconcilable conflict of interests here. The casino owners want their visitors to arrive and leave by car and stay entirely in the casino and everyone else wants them to enter and leave the casino on foot and visit other local businesses. These will have to be compromised in some way. The city and 3cdc can do a lot to draw people out of the casino as can the many street festivals, plays, concerts, etc. that happen in the area.

I want to ask, is there a better casino design anywhere?  Casino's are notoriously HORRIBLY designed when it comes to anything outside of Vegas. I can't think of a "great" Casino design. I would love to see a photo if someone has a suggestion.

 

To be fair, Greektown Casino in Detroit is a great urban design that would've worked well in Pendleton.  But alas, that's water under the buffet bridge.

And that's just the back!  Notice they even hid the drop-off and up to the sidewalk, much like any sort of urban hotel.

 

Casino on the right, hotel on the left.  A nice, urban street:

 

Le *sigh*

I think people are getting their panties all in a bunch over this project.  Does Atlas even like Cincinnati? and secondly, the jail shouldn't have anything to do with the casino and yet, people keep bringing it up.  Who gives a crap that the casino is close to the jail? What difference does it make?  Do you honestly think that whores, prostitutes and whatever else people fear the casino might bring would commit that many crimes so close to a jail to begin with?  People in this city really don't know how to actually enjoy it.

 

Just in case you were referring to my analogy, I wasn't talking about actual pimps and whores lol, but rather the "We'll probably approve anything you want to build" attitude that exists in certain parts of city government in a struggling city like Cincinnati.

 

The new office building in Columbia Tusculum that has zero facade articulation comes to mind. As does Center of Cincinnati in Oakley. And those were just your average johns! (Okay, Vandercar at this point might be a high-paying john, or a minor pimp.)

 

At any rate, it shouldn't be a surprise or huge disappointment to anyone at this point.

 

One question I have though, is why are we suddenly getting this deluge of beige brick in Cincinnati? I've always considered this a red brick kind of town. The Banks, the Casino, that horrible orange-y brick up at University Heights...

It's ok.  Can you tell I get worked up? ;) I come quick to Cincy defense but I know what you meant.

"One question I have though, is why are we suddenly getting this deluge of beige brick in Cincinnati? I've always considered this a red brick kind of town. The Banks, the Casino, that horrible orange-y brick up at University Heights..."

 

interestingly, if you think about it.... that color of brick, stone, precast is really common throughout downtown.... the carew tower, dixie terminal, the 4th and walnut center, the cincinnati bell antenna tower, the addition to shillito's, the phoenix, the hamilton county justice center and many more all are beige/tan/orangish brick... many many many more buildings downtown are limestone, or beige precast... think proctor and gamble, taft tower, atrium center, federal buildings etc... so while there are some nice red brick buildings downtown, i feel that beige/orange color (while i may not necessarily find it the most aesthetically pleasing in its current uses) is not without pervasive historical precedent in cincinnati...

"One question I have though, is why are we suddenly getting this deluge of beige brick in Cincinnati? I've always considered this a red brick kind of town. The Banks, the Casino, that horrible orange-y brick up at University Heights..."

 

interestingly, if you think about it.... that color of brick, stone, precast is really common throughout downtown.... the carew tower, dixie terminal, the 4th and walnut center, the cincinnati bell antenna tower, the addition to shillito's, the phoenix, the hamilton county justice center and many more all are beige/tan/orangish brick... many many many more buildings downtown are limestone, or beige precast... think proctor and gamble, taft tower, atrium center, federal buildings etc... so while there are some nice red brick buildings downtown, i feel that beige/orange color (while i may not necessarily find it the most aesthetically pleasing in its current uses) is not without pervasive historical precedent in cincinnati...

 

Well, Carew is beige brick, but I think it's a horrid detail on an otherwise nicely designed art deco tower. Otherwise, I can think of a lot of granite downtown (at least at street level) but not a lot of yellow and beige brick. Hopefully the Casino is granite or stone, but I still think it would have been much classier, and fit into OTR better, as a more classically designed red brick building.

Supposedly the Carew was supposed to be Indiana limestone ala Union Terminal or Rockefeller Center, but they cut back to brick to save money.  I've never seen that rumor confirmed, though.

 

Meanwhile, ColDay, that Greektown photo is deceptive.  That streetscape only exists for 2-3 blocks at most, from what I remember. 

I want to ask, is there a better casino design anywhere?  Casino's are notoriously HORRIBLY designed when it comes to anything outside of Vegas. I can't think of a "great" Casino design. I would love to see a photo if someone has a suggestion.

The Harrah's in New Orleans fits in well

Supposedly the Carew was supposed to be Indiana limestone ala Union Terminal or Rockefeller Center, but they cut back to brick to save money.  I've never seen that rumor confirmed, though.

 

Meanwhile, ColDay, that Greektown photo is deceptive.  That streetscape only exists for 2-3 blocks at most, from what I remember. 

 

True, but Greektown is only a couple of blocks to begin with.

I want to ask, is there a better casino design anywhere?  Casino's are notoriously HORRIBLY designed when it comes to anything outside of Vegas. I can't think of a "great" Casino design. I would love to see a photo if someone has a suggestion.

The Harrah's in New Orleans fits in well

No way. This plan is much, much better than the NOLA casino! Where are the street-fronting bars and restaurants?

Developers roll the dice on casino-area sites

Tom Demeropolis - Business Courier

 

Developers and investors are snapping up property near the Horseshoe Casino Cincinnati, even though the opening of the $400 million project is more than a year away.

 

Twenty properties within a short walk of the downtown casino site have been purchased in the past year for a total of more than $2.6 million, according to Hamilton County property records. The Model Group, a developer that has been working on condominium projects in Over-the-Rhine, has made the most acquisitions so far this year, buying up 11 pieces of property for a total of $1.4 million.

 

Others buying up parcels nearby include former Cincinnati City Councilman Jim Tarbell and developers WMC Group LLC and Danridge Properties LLC.

 

Betting on residential demand

 

The new owners have a variety of intentions for the properties, and in some cases they aren’t yet saying what those plans may entail. But the injection of investment and new ownership in this part of downtown could mean a wave of new economic development to a depressed area of the city.

 

Cont(premium content)

I just hope the properties actually get developed, rather than having speculators sitting on the property, waiting for the value to increase.

I assume that Model will be waiting for 3CDC to enter the neighborhood with their checkbook open before they actually do anything.

^ difficulty in that situation is that The school board has to offer the SCPA building to a charter school before a private developer- any charter school can take a claim not the building due to state law BEFORE they can consider a private developer.  Very crappy- That's why the School Board prefers demolition of older properties- they only other option they have is to offer the building to their competition.

^ difficulty in that situation is that The school board has to offer the SCPA building to a charter school before a private developer- any charter school can take a claim not the building due to state law BEFORE they can consider a private developer.  Very crappy- That's why the School Board prefers demolition of older properties- they only other option they have is to offer the building to their competition.

 

Shouldn't this factor into CPS' decisions on whether to renovate an existing school or build a new one (leaving the old one empty)?

^ ya, and it kind of does... but we passed such a massive bond issue to build many new schools that the incentive is to build a new one exactly how they want it--  Either way, they've renovated some, and others have been replaced.  Plus, with the case of SCPA, almost no one is saying that the new building was a bad idea- It's a great resource in a great location.  The old building would make WONDERFUL condos, hopefully one day that's an option.

I assume that Model will be waiting for 3CDC to enter the neighborhood with their checkbook open before they actually do anything.

 

First of all, 3CDC doesn't actually pay for anything. They are simply a non-profit that puts together various financing sources for developers and is stockpiling property in the basin.

 

Second, Model Group and most of the other OTR developers have been redeveloping urban properties around these parts for several decades. For the most part it's been a labor of love. If you need to point veiled cynicism anywhere, do it at the people building strip malls in Butler county.

 

Seriously, that kind of comment is just baffling.

The SCPA school was built for a variety of reasons, none of them particularly compelling in my view.  The big reason nobody mentions is that it consumed an entire block on Central Parkway that was a perennial danger to the downtown skyscraper cartel.  They have been fighting the private development of Central Parkway since it opened back in 1928 (actually earlier, when they successfully fought several bond issues to build it even after the subway had been finished). 

 

This charter school nonsense is pretty much the stupidest thing anyone's heard of because the law did not anticipate situations like this one.  The saving grace is that the building is so large than it's unlikely a charter school would take up residency. 

 

 

Can you imagine if Central Parkway was actually skyscraper row which is what was intended? Ha, poor Kroger building needs some tall friends.

It seems that race and 5th, 7th and sycamore, and along plum between 4th and 5th could accomodate major towers.

Which is all separate from the fact that cincinnati DOES need to focus on maximizing the value of property in cincinnati and the resultant tax income to make a more valuable city that can then do more for its residents. The growing number of poor have every right to live and do what they can afford and to work for their interests politically. I encourage them to do so. But, we don't have to accept personal threats or violence in an attempts to prevent the legal and beneficial redevelopment of otr.

its a nice enough building that i really wouldnt mind if a charter were too come in and use it and maintain it

A divisive "us vs them" attitude is most certainly NOT the way to go about making OTR the neighborhood that we all want it to become.  There is a criminal element in OTR that needs to be addressed, but simply shipping out the poor to another neighborhood is bad, short sighted policy.  I think some people seek to validate controversial statements made about OTR by saying how long they have lived in the neighborhood, but that is really not fair.  You don't have to be a long time OTR resident to care about the neighborhood, or care about social justice in Cincinnati.

I would start by increasing the transit options available to OTR residents, which seems to be underway.  Another possibility would be locating a large job center there, like a casino.  That too seems to be underway.  I'm not sure what "draconian measures" would entail, but whatever you have in mind, that's probably not a term you'd want to use in your advocacy efforts.

I'm removing these posts about welfare but you have the chance to reformulate your arguments without being inflammatory. Please also refrain from making personal attacks on other forumers. You can discuss and debate the merits of someones argument but name calling is not tolerated. Thanks!

"He who controls urbanohio forums, wants to be in control . He who wants to control the past, wants to control the future"

Matthew Hall

^ We are so oppressed here on UO. :roll:

 

327 is spot-on. What we need in OTR/Pendleton is continuation and expansion of what is already being done!

"He who controls urbanohio forums, wants to be in control . He who wants to control the past, wants to control the future"

Matthew Hall

 

feel free to start your own forum if you don't like it here :)

 

 

Any idea when the City will begin it's $20 million in infrastructure updates around the casino site (mainly streetscape and intersection improvements)?

^I'd guess the Court Street closure (between Reedy Street and Broadway) beginning today through January 14, 2012 would signify the start.

Such assurance and generosity! Well, we are in Cincinnati. . .

Such assurance and generosity! Well, we are in Cincinnati. . .

 

Dude, you're approaching troll status. You need to seriously think about the next thing that you post here, or it's going to be much worse than a moderator come flying out the barn at you.

The casino is going up FAST!  btw, who is this Matthew idiot?

^ no one answer that, please. No need to continue taking this thread off topic.

 

Does anyone have the PDF or any other doc, that lists the ~$20 million in renovations/upgrades?

Construction on the casino is progressing rapidly. Here are three photos I took from the top of Carew Tower over Thanksgiving weekend.

 

1.

 

2.

 

3.

 

I really, really love that Cincinnati's surface parking lots are getting taken over by midrise infill all over Downtown and Over-the-Rhine. Sure there are still some very notable lots left, but huge chunks of asphalt are going away and being built upon. Just wait until the Cincinnati Streetcar comes online in 2013!

I agree.  That parking lot was a huge eye sore.  Even more so than the mud pit before The Banks.  The casino spot has to be a huge percentage of vacant asphalt downtown right? I know there was a pie chart somewhere on these forums with percentage of parking lots.

On Tuesday, December 13th the Downtown Residents Council (DRC) with host Kevin Kline (General Manager of Caeser's Cincinnati Casino) as a speaker presenting on all things about the casino.  Members and non-members are welcome to attend, so come with an open mind, a friend, and your questions.

 

Time/Location:  Main Branch Library - Third Floor Tower Room @ 6:00pm

On Tuesday, December 13th the Downtown Residents Council (DRC) with host Kevin Kline (General Manager of Caeser's Cincinnati Casino) as a speaker presenting on all things about the casino.  Members and non-members are welcome to attend, so come with an open mind, a friend, and your questions.

 

Time/Location:  Main Branch Library - Third Floor Tower Room @ 6:00pm

 

If someone could ask him when they plan on buying the Terrace Plaza hotel. They just bought the Ritz-Carlton in Cleveland. I'd like to think they'll do something similar here.

Does that say CAESAR'S Cincinnati Casino?  Did I miss something?

 

EDIT: Horseshoe is a brand of Caesar's.  Got it.

Is there a final rendering of the casino? Hmm can't find it.

It's becoming more clear as construction progresses how this project is going to engage the street along Reading Road. With a blank, windowless wall.  I don't think any renderings ever really showed the North side, at least that I can recall.

I think that has to do with the new residences on the north side of Reading. Would you have wanted a loud casino operation and bright lights shining through even covered windows in your unit? I wouldn't. I have faith in Bridging Broadway that more than a blank wall will be established on the north wall of the casino.

The whole thing is basically Deerfield Towne Center plopped clumsily on the site wherever it will fit.  There's unresolved space left over on all sides, and it's not as if the site is so complicated that they couldn't build to the sidewalk on Reading, Broadway, and Court.  Instead, the thing's going to have a freaking front lawn.  I weep for the future.

 

^^I have no way to back this assumption up, but there may be that front lawn due to soil contamination factors. After all, the land was covered with rail infrastructure for decades, prior to the construction of I-71, and establishment of surface lots all over the east side of downtown.