February 11, 201114 yr I'd rather pay less to have firms come in to design and build the casino than to pay much higher for someone who is local. I know what you are saying, Sherman, but this same line of reasoning is the ultimate justification for, say, shopping at Wal-Mart.
February 11, 201114 yr I really hope they nail the architecture. Paul Wilham (preservationconsultant on UO) had a blog entry pointing out how the city really can and should be picky about this project. While I think he is wrong about some things he says, he has some valid points (as he usually does). http://victorianantiquitiesanddesign.blogspot.com/2011/02/downtown-cincinnati-needs-to-raise-its.html I wonder what his picture of an ideal new-construction casino might be, though. He seems to think "new = crap", across the board. I do dislike most contemporary architecture, but I do not think the answer is to only go to past styles! I've been wanting to do a similar post to this blog entry for UO for a long time. Chicago really has got it nailed in terms of designing infill that's simultaneously new and full of character. One can only hope that developers (like the casino and uptown properties) are reading this (except for the whole thing about lowering population densities of OTR)
February 11, 201114 yr (except for the whole thing about lowering population densities of OTR) I know, right? LOL. Oh, and I want to correct myself that Paul is restorationconsultant, not preservationconsultant...I knew something was wrong when I typed it, but I mixed it up anyway. You would think if you were true to "restoration", you'd be all about dense apartments (hell, tenements) in OTR. Imagine how few of the storefronts would be usable if all the buildings were converted into single families.
February 11, 201114 yr ya- I'm not a fan of purists, who say all infill must basically replicate the surrounding architecture. I think 14/v is a great blend of new and old... Trinity Flats, not so much- City Home is alright. But I would hate for 3CDC or anyone else to be building replicas that look as though they are from the 1880's... that's just silly. About the Casino- I don't think they should build something that looks old- The only surrounding architecture is the jail and a few properties along Reading. They should do something that doesn't look like a giant Costco building (most casino's outside of Vegas have HORRIBLE exteriors). I actually do hope they do something modernish- metals, glass, etc. Since the typical stucko casino exterior is just disgusting and i doubt they'll use brick. The New Orleans Harrah's is surprisingly ok, while the Council Bluffs Horseshoe is just so ugly... http://wheresrooster.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/IA-Horseshoe-2.jpg
February 11, 201114 yr I think they should look to Newport's gambling history for architectural and design cues.
February 11, 201114 yr While I'm all for maintaining the historic fabric of OTR...Broadway Commons is NOT OTR. I hope this building turns out to be a visually engaging terminus to Central parkway. The best precedent I've seen is the Talca Casino in Talca, Chile. It's something ultra contemporary and is built to the street. Casino's necessarily have a LOT of large walls with no windows. It's VERY easy for developers to throw cheap fake windows up and create something horrid. Below is a casino in Newport, RI (a beautiful, historic, and wealthy community) that completely destroys its surroundings. Another option (if you don't like the contemporary route) is to take a theme and throw a bunch of themed stuff up on the wall. The Potawatomi Casino in Milwaukee does a pretty good job at this: Any way you slice it, the design will be a gamble (har har) and I think the developers are trying hard to avoid tackiness.
February 12, 201114 yr ProkNo5 has it right design wise... whereas the contrast of style often compliments if not brings attention to the historic in ways that a faux structure can not. I hope to see the glass front of the Horseshoe Cincy expanded upon (mainly for color and pattern contributions) but i have a feeling that the design has gone more in the design direction of Milwaukee. The Reading Road space planning is nice and fitting for the neighborhood and I commend the developers for at least getting that part right... but it would be ideal for it to not be wrapped generically.
March 29, 201114 yr Developers hosting Horseshoe Casino bid meeting Companies interested in bidding on upcoming Horseshoe Casino construction bid packages are invited to attend a meeting from 4:30 p.m. to 6:30 p.m. March 23 at the Community Action Agency on Langdon Farm Road. The meeting is aimed at prime contractors, minority- and women-owned subcontractors and suppliers who are interested in bid packages related to: foundations, concrete pumping and placing, excavation, waterproofing, underground utilities, fireproofing, vertical transportation, metal fabrication, rebar, signage, asphalt paving, concrete curbs, striping, parking control equipment such as gates, HVAC, plumbing, electrical and sprinkler systems. “All truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.” -Friedrich Nietzsche
April 28, 201114 yr Just another thing the governor is probably killing: Casino opening pushed back to 2013 Written by Alexander Coolidge DOWNTOWN - Gamblers won't be making bets at Horseshoe Casino Cincinnati next year after all. The opening of the incoming casino at Broadway Commons has been delayed until sometime in 2013 - and ultimately could be scaled back, developers said Wednesday. Officials with Rock Gaming said they had to delay a key steel order because of an ongoing impasse with Gov. John Kasich over casino taxes and fees. Until they know how much in taxes and fees they might be required to pay, they said they are slowing down the $400 million project. Kasich says he needs time to study the taxes and fees to make sure taxpayers are getting the best deal possible. A spokesman said late Wednesday that the governor would not be rushed in deciding his tax policy. “All truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.” -Friedrich Nietzsche
April 28, 201114 yr I admit to being perplexed. The tax rate is in the Ohio constitution. Not sure what the Governor thinks he gets to negotiate. I understand that he thinks it was a bad deal and should not have been voted for, but it was, and Ohio is stuck with it. Sort of like what people may be thinking about the vote that put him in office.
April 28, 201114 yr So what delays are there to the other casinos, if any? Is this disproportionately affecting the Cincinnati one?
May 10, 201114 yr What a disaster this guy is turning into for Cincinnati. Radical conservatives don't believe in law. Just collective security, which isn't "law" in the sense that most people here think about government.
May 10, 201114 yr just in case you all didn't know, the developer (rock gaming) has asked the contractors to remove all workers from the site, effective yesterday. i'm assuming this has happened. so work has now officially ceased on site. the hope is that this will generate some local push back against the governor in an effort to come to a solution as soon as possible, as he is now, in this case, officially costing jobs and money to the local economy.
May 10, 201114 yr i'm assuming this has happened. From my vantage point, there is indeed no one on site. "It's just fate, as usual, keeping its bargain and screwing us in the fine print..." - John Crichton
May 16, 201114 yr Casino developers, builders sign NAACP agreement Business Courier - by Lucy May, Courier Senior Staff Reporter Date: Monday, May 16, 2011, 12:17pm EDT - Last Modified: Monday, May 16, 2011, 1:21pm EDT The developers and builders of Horseshoe Casino Cincinnati signed the Cincinnati NAACP Construction Partnership Agreement today, pledging to abide by an economic inclusion pact developed last year by the NAACP and a dozen local construction companies. As the Business Courier reported in its Friday edition, this marked the first time project owners have signed the agreement. Rock Ohio Caesars had three top officials on hand to sign. The agreement also was signed by Cincinnati NAACP President Christopher Smitherman and representatives of Messer Construction Co. and Pendleton Construction Group, a joint venture of three local minority-owned firms. “All truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.” -Friedrich Nietzsche
June 28, 201113 yr Casino jobs build-up begins 6:40 PM, Jun. 27, 2011 DOWNTOWN - Workers are back on site constructing Horseshoe Casino Cincinnati, the first of an estimated 2,000 workers it will take to complete the sprawling gambling hall. But all 2,000 will never be working at once, and few will be employed for the duration of the 20-month project. Construction officials say on-site employment will peak next year when the site will be teeming with as many as 350 workers completing exterior and interior work. Some jobs will last months, they say, but some specialized work will be completed in only weeks. http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20110628/BIZ01/106280322/Casino-jobs-build-up-begins?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|Business
June 28, 201113 yr What a disaster this guy is turning into for Cincinnati. Radical conservatives don't believe in law. Just collective security, which isn't "law" in the sense that most people here think about government. At least Kasich isn't anti Casino What a disaster this guy is turning into for Cincinnati. Radical conservatives don't believe in law. Just collective security, which isn't "law" in the sense that most people here think about government. Compared to Strickland, who was not in favor of any Casinos, he isn't that bad.
June 28, 201113 yr ^Where are you getting your information from? While Kasich is not an anti-casino zealot he sure was not a supporter of the constitutional amendment or casinos in general.
June 28, 201113 yr Enquirer now has a video. The parking garage is bigger than the casino. At least there's lots of green space, err surface parking.
June 28, 201113 yr ^Where are you getting your information from? While Kasich is not an anti-casino zealot he sure was not a supporter of the constitutional amendment or casinos in general. Newspapers quoting Strickland. Strickland didn't want to allow Casinos is Ohio and was 100% against the ballot amendment. Not sure if Kasich was allowed to do what he did, renegotiate the business terms?
June 28, 201113 yr What a disaster this guy is turning into for Cincinnati. Radical conservatives don't believe in law. Just collective security, which isn't "law" in the sense that most people here think about government. At least Kasich isn't anti Casino What a disaster this guy is turning into for Cincinnati. Radical conservatives don't believe in law. Just collective security, which isn't "law" in the sense that most people here think about government. Compared to Strickland, who was not in favor of any Casinos, he isn't that bad. ^ This statement is a logical fallacy. Strickland was against the amendment, but once it was in place, he was obeying it 100%. Kasich, while we don't know if he was against it to begin with or not, began to DISobey the will of the voters. To say Kasich is better because he may or may not have disagreed with the language in 2009 does not apply to him being "better" than the constitution following Strickland. ----- Back to reality- I like that they did that video, I'm amazed at the number of people who have yet to understand the Casino site.
June 29, 201113 yr Here is a link to the video...... http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?Category=BIZ
June 30, 201113 yr Interesting to see (in the video) that despite the efforts of the Pendelton neighborhood any and all retail finds its way away from Reading Road and burried adjacent to the parking structure. I just don't see the logic in that. I would think you would want the retail as a buffer for light into the casino in classic casino time-warp fashion. This thinking would have also fit with the neighborhood's desires but right now they have high stakes along the perimeter- so I guess we can expect opaque glass "windows" all along Reading Rd?
June 30, 201113 yr Am I the only one who thinks that the casino will have very little impact on the surrounding neiborhoods? Pendleton is mostly residential, and I don't see proximity to the casino as a big selling point for condos/apts. Any spillover effect on the downtown side is pretty much killed due to the jail and courthouse, and the northeast quadrant of downtown is mostly office, and it's really empty at night, so I dont see much potential there anyways. I think the casino will be good for downtown just because of all the visitors that will choose to come to the city for it who otherwise wouldn't. But as far as expecting the casino to do wonders for OTR or the NE side of Downtown, I just don't see it.
June 30, 201113 yr Am I the only one who thinks that the casino will have very little impact on the surrounding neiborhoods? Pendleton is mostly residential, and I don't see proximity to the casino as a big selling point for condos/apts. Any spillover effect on the downtown side is pretty much killed due to the jail and courthouse, and the northeast quadrant of downtown is mostly office, and it's really empty at night, so I dont see much potential there anyways. I think the casino will be good for downtown just because of all the visitors that will choose to come to the city for it who otherwise wouldn't. But as far as expecting the casino to do wonders for OTR or the NE side of Downtown, I just don't see it. I'm sure I broached this subject 15 pages ago and it is an important point you make but the positive side of that maybe the bookend effect of having this at BC and other services at FS and The Banks.
June 30, 201113 yr 95% of the people who go to this Casino will park in the garage, go in the back door, use the restaurants that are tied to a player's card, and go back to the parking garage to leave. It enhances that side of downtown because it is no longer a surface parking lot, that's about it. I really do not expect people to venture out and the operators will discourage it despite what they say publicly. The design is very suburban and leaves tons of dead space all around. I would expect more loan/pawn places to join Barr's on Reading as well. The extra money the city will get as a result of it will be where this thing is where the positive impact is.
July 1, 201113 yr 95% of the people who go to this Casino will park in the garage, go in the back door, use the restaurants that are tied to a player's card, and go back to the parking garage to leave. It enhances that side of downtown because it is no longer a surface parking lot, that's about it. I really do not expect people to venture out and the operators will discourage it despite what they say publicly. The design is very suburban and leaves tons of dead space all around. I would expect more loan/pawn places to join Barr's on Reading as well. The extra money the city will get as a result of it will be where this thing is where the positive impact is. Source for your statistic? Gaming is not so ubiquitous that conventioneers and business travelers won't be drawn to it from their 5th Street accommodations. I think you are on to something there as far as a reality of casinos but I can also see it spurring development and traffic up Broadway and down Sycamore. Thoughts?
July 1, 201113 yr I just don't see it any development being spurred from this casino. With the massive Jobs and Family Services complex, the courthouse, and jail, the western border has pretty limited development potential. The Main St. business district is a little far from the casino to have a big impact, and I think the buildings in Pendleton make that area hard to redevelop, as it's mostly large residential buildings.
July 1, 201113 yr I think the Casino will have negligible "bricks and mortar" spin off development (perhaps some residential impact and a few bars and restaurants), but it will help draw people from other parts of downtown already doing other things (i.e. workers, conventioneers, sports fans, partiers, etc.). I do agree though that the vast majority of people coming strictly to gamble will just drive into the garage, gamble and leave downtown. Although there may be some that venture out for dinner and drinks.
July 3, 201113 yr I think the development will be along Reading (although probably not too much) I agree the Jail and government buildings cut off some potential development in and around the area. I hope the new hotel on 7th can have an impact as it will create some walk up traffic to the casino from downtown. Also maybe some development South along Eggleston.
July 4, 201113 yr When at the Hollywood Casino, one can tell when there is a large convention in town or when a ballgame has ended. Many of these people will gravitate to Pendelton if access is safe and easy. Late at night (or early the next morning!) the crowd changes with a lot of money being laundered! I'm assuming that, but it is the only reason I could imagine someone coming to a craps table with $8,000 in $20 bills!
August 26, 201113 yr Horseshoe Casino Cincinnati site cleared of contaminated soil Business Courier - by Dan Monk , Senior Staff Reporter Date: Friday, August 26, 2011, 6:00am EDT Before it could embrace its glitzy future, Cincinnati’s Broadway Commons site had to confront its industrial past. Developers of the Horseshoe Casino Cincinnati removed 7,700 tons of lead-contaminated soil from the gaming facility’s Broadway Commons construction site in February and March of this year. The dirt was treated on site, then hauled to the Rumpke landfill in Colerain Township to make sure contamination from a former lead pigment plant will not come in contact with casino patrons. “We followed all the standards and guidelines that they have to make sure our workers are safe and the public is safe,” said Jennifer Kulczycki, spokeswoman for Rock Ohio Caesars LLC. Cont (premium content) "It's just fate, as usual, keeping its bargain and screwing us in the fine print..." - John Crichton
September 7, 201113 yr Casino site may get upgrade 2:37 PM, Sep. 6, 2011 | Written by Alexander Coolidge DOWNTOWN – City officials are mulling $27 million worth of street and other public improvements near the site of the future Horseshoe Casino Cincinnati. City officials are working to upgrade the area around the two-story, 350,000-square-foot casino complex at Broadway Commons in time for its spring 2013 opening. http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20110906/BIZ01/309060083/Casino-site-may-get-upgrade?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|Business
September 7, 201113 yr they should not close off broadway. mistake. ideally, MORE streets would be implemented in the area and a casino footprint would be worked around the grid. this is anything but ideal urban design. shock.
September 7, 201113 yr $27 million just in street improvements? That would go a long way to closing the gaps in the streetcar project's budget.
September 7, 201113 yr they should not close off broadway. mistake. ideally, MORE streets would be implemented in the area and a casino footprint would be worked around the grid. this is anything but ideal urban design. shock. I could be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure what will happen is that broadway will be closed, but Eggleston between Broadway & Central Parkway will become two way. It will add a minor 1 minute inconvenience to drivers. I'm not saying I'm for it, I was originally strongly against it- now I'm a bit more moderate. Also- Can anyone explain what these two parks are? 12th and Broadway doesn't seem to have a park on Google Maps and I'm not sure what the East 12th Pocket Park is either...
September 7, 201113 yr WXIX's coverage from last night: Improvements planned for neighborhoods surrounding casino site I recommend stopping the video when they get to the viewer's Facebook comments or you might punch your monitor... "It's just fate, as usual, keeping its bargain and screwing us in the fine print..." - John Crichton
September 15, 201113 yr http://www.uc.edu/cdc/index_casino.html potential 'casino district'... it will be curious to see if development is actually spurred by the placement of the casino or not.
September 15, 201113 yr 95% of the people who go to this Casino will park in the garage, go in the back door, use the restaurants that are tied to a player's card, and go back to the parking garage to leave. It enhances that side of downtown because it is no longer a surface parking lot, that's about it. I really do not expect people to venture out and the operators will discourage it despite what they say publicly. The design is very suburban and leaves tons of dead space all around. I would expect more loan/pawn places to join Barr's on Reading as well. The extra money the city will get as a result of it will be where this thing is where the positive impact is. even if its only 5% of visitors, I'll take 300,000 additional visitors to downtown
September 21, 201113 yr ^Indeed. More visitors anywhere downtown means more investment in property. Let's hope that means higher land values on parking lots.
October 25, 201113 yr Developers exceed goals 5:16 PM, Oct. 24, 2011 DOWNTOWN – Casino developers behind the Horseshoe Casino Cincinnati reported Monday they have awarded $82.3 million worth of construction contracts, with 35 percent going to minority- or women-owned businesses. Steve Rosenthal, a principal with Rock Gaming, said the company is working hard to ensure diversity among the construction companies that win business from the $400 million project. http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20111024/BIZ01/310240091/Developers-exceed-goals?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|Business
October 25, 201113 yr has there been any improvement to the site plan? Is the rendering in the article above still what is going to be built? That rendering shows an anti-urban monstrosity. It's laughable to think that it is 2011 and we still can't achieve quality urban designs on large scales. Lowly expectations = lowly city. its too bad.
October 25, 201113 yr has there been any improvement to the site plan? Is the rendering in the article above still what is going to be built? That rendering shows an anti-urban monstrosity. It's laughable to think that it is 2011 and we still can't achieve quality urban designs on large scales. Lowly expectations = lowly city. its too bad. Seriously. I see developments all over the place in my part of Chicago that are street facing small scale urban commercial spaces filling in the last empty/surface lots in the neighborhood, they look fantastic and fit perfectly into the fabric of the neighborhood. There are amazing adaptive reuse projects, like the old MB bank building that they turned into a CVS and a nightclub in the bank vault. There are even additions of bicycle parking in some of the more "suburban" style developments that were built 10 years ago. The adage that Cincinnati is 10 years in the past is so clear here its not even funny and its sad, because Cincy deserves better than this.
October 25, 201113 yr has there been any improvement to the site plan? Is the rendering in the article above still what is going to be built? That rendering shows an anti-urban monstrosity. It's laughable to think that it is 2011 and we still can't achieve quality urban designs on large scales. Lowly expectations = lowly city. its too bad. A *casino operator* builds in a *shrinking rust belt city with a budget deficit.* Pimp, meet whore. Your flustering is duly noted, but as a planner you are entering a lifetime of frustration, I assure you.
Create an account or sign in to comment