January 13, 201015 yr Oh Lord! "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
January 13, 201015 yr Quiet Kim Jong-il! "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
January 26, 201015 yr Great feature story from Casey Coston in this week's Soapbox Cincinnati about this area of town that was formerly known as Bucktown. http://soapboxmedia.com/features/0126bucktown.aspx
January 26, 201015 yr Bucktown sounded like my kind of place! :drunk: You got that right boyo! Bucktown will effing rock again soon....just without that horrible slaughterhouse stench. Can't wait for the Bucktown/Casino streetcar line.
February 1, 201015 yr <b>Casino Charrette Save the Date</b> The Cincinnati Chapter of the American Institute of Architects, The Architectural Foundation of Cincinnati, the Cincinnati Chapter of the United States Green Building Council, and the Cincinnati Preservation Association are sponsoring a one-day charrette to help guide the design of the Cincinnati Casino. The date of this charrette is Saturday, February 20, 2010. The location will be the Cincinnati Art Academy. As you know, the casino will be built on the Broadway Commons site and will dramatically effect the urban environment surrounding it. The goal of the charrette is to maximize the potential for a successful casino development that is well woven into the urban fabric of Cincinnati. We will gather the input of various stakeholders and synthesize the information into a set of urban design principles that can inform development of the casino. Additional details will be coming soon.
February 1, 201015 yr Interesting. It's good that people are recognizing the importance of good design for this project, as that will be crucial to its success. The worst thing that could happen would be to build a huge windowless casino surrounded by a moat of parking, which seems typical for most other casino projects I've seen.
February 1, 201015 yr ^Will the Casino builders be involved in this Charette? The charrette planners have been talking with a representative of the casino owner. I don't know what the final participation will be.
February 3, 201015 yr More details on the charrette: CINCINNATI CASINO CHARRETTE An event for public input, comment and ideas that will help shape the new Cincinnati Casino district. Saturday, February 20, 2010 Art Academy of Cincinnati 1212 Jackson Street Over-the-Rhine The Cincinnati Casino will be built on the Broadway Commons site and will dramatically affect the urban environment surrounding it. The goal of the charrette is to maximize the potential for a successful casino development that is well woven into the urban fabric of Cincinnati. We will gather the input of various stakeholders and synthesize the information into a set of urban design principles that can inform development of the casino and other economic investments in the surrounding district. Schedule 8:30 am – 9:00 am Registration 9:00 am – 10:00 am Public session: Welcome and introduction 10:00 am – 11:30 am Public session: Input and exploration of the issues (Session 1) 11:30 am – 1:00 pm Public session: Input and exploration of the issues (Session 2) 1:30 pm – 4:30 pm Designer’s synthesis and illustration of public input 4:30 pm – 6:00 pm Public session: Presentation and report Reservation Information Admission to all sessions is free. But since space is limited, reservations are requested. Lunch is available by reservation only for $10. For reservations and to order lunch go to: www.aiacincinnati.org. For more information contact AIA Cincinnati at: [email protected] or 513-421-4661. Hosted By AIA Cincinnati, a Chapter of the American Institute of Architects Architectural Foundation of Cincinnati (AFC) American Society of Heating, Refrigerating and Air-Conditioning Engineers (ASHRAE) - Cincinnati Chapter Cincinnati Preservation Association (CPA) United States Green Building Council (USGBC) - Cincinnati Chapter UC Niehoff Urban Studio REGISTER and PAY ON-LINE at: http://www.aiacincinnati.org/events/regList.cfm
February 3, 201015 yr Interesting. It's good that people are recognizing the importance of good design for this project, as that will be crucial to its success. The worst thing that could happen would be to build a huge windowless casino surrounded by a moat of parking, which seems typical for most other casino projects I've seen. There will be no windows, as windows will give an indication as to the time of day, as do clocks. They wouldn't want anyone knowing that it is getting late in the day, or that it is morning already.
February 3, 201015 yr The least they could do would be to include false windows that are seen from the outside. These could include display type things or whatever, just to break up the solid wall.
February 4, 201015 yr From earlier in the thread: Even the Detroit casinos, which are considerably larger than what will go in Broadway Commons... Do we know how big/small the Broadway Commons casino will be? 300,000 Square Feet at 2 or 3 stories. Here is the GoogleMaps street view of a new 300,000 SF casino in Tulsa: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=river+spirit+casino+tulsa&sll=36.544949,-87.429199&sspn=13.031023,28.54248&ie=UTF8&hq=river+spirit+casino&hnear=Tulsa,+OK&ll=36.040884,-95.959954&spn=0,359.986063&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=36.041283,-95.961049&panoid=x3WcltBHaRlvy4bV0eE0DA&cbp=12,282.58,,0,5.9
February 6, 201015 yr Author From earlier in the thread: Even the Detroit casinos, which are considerably larger than what will go in Broadway Commons... Do we know how big/small the Broadway Commons casino will be? 300,000 Square Feet at 2 or 3 stories. Here is the GoogleMaps street view of a new 300,000 SF casino in Tulsa: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=river+spirit+casino+tulsa&sll=36.544949,-87.429199&sspn=13.031023,28.54248&ie=UTF8&hq=river+spirit+casino&hnear=Tulsa,+OK&ll=36.040884,-95.959954&spn=0,359.986063&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=36.041283,-95.961049&panoid=x3WcltBHaRlvy4bV0eE0DA&cbp=12,282.58,,0,5.9 WTF! I have never heard of this beast before. http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=river+spirit+casino+tulsa&sll=36.544949,-87.429199&sspn=13.031023,28.54248&ie=UTF8&hq=river+spirit+casino&hnear=Tulsa,+OK&t=h&layer=c&cbll=36.04473,-95.95347&panoid=4zunvHcJ5HJ0nLCj9R6PAQ&cbp=12,180.99,,0,-12.33&ll=36.043096,-95.953163&spn=0,359.985849&z=17
February 8, 201015 yr FYI, word is that the Chavez folks (owners of Broadway Commons parking lot) have offered the Casino developers $1 or 2 million to go towards retaining a signature-type architect to head up casino design.
February 8, 201015 yr ^That would be nice. There's a casino in PA, (near Pittsburgh?) that had a pretty cool industrial vibe. Exposed mechanicals, high ceilings, etc.
February 8, 201015 yr FYI, word is that the Chavez folks (owners of Broadway Commons parking lot) have offered the Casino developers $1 or 2 million to go towards retaining a signature-type architect to head up casino design. This makes no sense to me. But I could be missing something.
February 8, 201015 yr FYI, word is that the Chavez folks (owners of Broadway Commons parking lot) have offered the Casino developers $1 or 2 million to go towards retaining a signature-type architect to head up casino design. This makes no sense to me. But I could be missing something. My guess is the casino owners requested this as part of their land lease. IF true, this could bode very well for the future of that area.
February 8, 201015 yr Chavez are now partners in the Casino. And it's their penance for maintaining a surface lot for so long.
February 19, 201015 yr I just found out this morning that I may be attending the public portion of the "CINCINNATI CASINO CHARRETTE" tomorrow representing the DRC (Downtown Residents Council). I have some of my own thoughts on design aspects formulated from various sources (including this message board and talking with some downtown residents), but if there is anything you can think of that is a critical factor for making the casino a good neighbor to urban residents those ideas would be greatly appreciated. Sorry about the last minute post, but I was just recently asked if I could to attend and have just now started marshaling my thoughts. "Someone is sitting in the shade today because someone planted a tree a long time ago." - Warren Buffett
February 19, 201015 yr Good luck... Wish I could be there, but I won't be in town for a few more days. The most critical thing are storefronts and windows facing the street; with most casinos, the prevailing wisdom is to turn the building into a hermetically-sealed box so that people can gamble away their unemployment checks without being aware of the passage of time. Even if the casino floor itself doesn't have windows, there are still opportunities to open it up to the surrounding streets while avoiding the temptation to plop a windowless big box on the site.
February 19, 201015 yr And it should be oriented towards Broadway, not Gilbert. The parking garage and other service facilities, if not underneath the building, can be along the east side facing Gilbert and I-71. To put any of that sort of stuff along Reading, Broadway, or even Court Street would be a big failing.
February 19, 201015 yr Orientation - Entrances clearly identified by the buildings form and oriented towards the street or corner; keep the "back" things in the back like loading, maintenance, mechanicals; overall massing should match or at least compliment the surrounding buildings Articulation - Interesting variation and patterns in the building facades along the street, ideally no more than 40' of facade without a structural break of some kind; windows and openings should be vertical instead of horizontal; overall, the neighorhood is regular patterns of vertical elements - vertical windows, doorways, facades, massing, so a new building should respect that Transparency - Buildings should activate the street, so transparency at street level as much as possible, be that actual windows or using articulation, access and lighting to keep the street-level facade interesting, inviting and safe feeling
February 19, 201015 yr Do you think there would be noise and/or light issues with a project like this, or are these pretty moot points? "Someone is sitting in the shade today because someone planted a tree a long time ago." - Warren Buffett
February 19, 201015 yr I don't know. I think the Justice Center would be a great model. Everyone would feel at home then. :evil:
February 22, 201015 yr Anyone with any feedback on the Casino Charrette? I personally found the event interesting, but essentially a waste of time when it came to actual constructive work and finished product. I think that if the whole thing was a little better organized and lasted a couple of days longer then we might have seen a much better result. "Someone is sitting in the shade today because someone planted a tree a long time ago." - Warren Buffett
February 22, 201015 yr The length and productive capacity of the event might be proportional to how seriously the developer actually takes the idea.
February 22, 201015 yr e.g. He's looking for lip service, but isn't actively seeking new ideas because there is a basic formula that will be applied?
February 22, 201015 yr The length and productive capacity of the event might be proportional to how seriously the developer actually takes the idea. I just spoke to one of my partners who was a volunteer at the event. He felt that many were getting off onto tangents that was not design focussed, ie. putting hiring requirments on the casino and still debating the casinos affect on crime. I would not lay this at the feet of the developer as to whether the charrette was constructive or not. In some ways it sounds reminiscent of how 3CDC was talked about in certain circles when they first started in OTR.
February 22, 201015 yr Anyone with any feedback on the Casino Charrette? I personally found the event interesting, but essentially a waste of time when it came to actual constructive work and finished product. I think that if the whole thing was a little better organized and lasted a couple of days longer then we might have seen a much better result. I agree Ben. I think if we had at least two whole days we could have really started to get some actual design drawings going. There was a lot of talent in the room, but not enough drawing time! Some points: Ann Sessler and Chip Gerhart with Government Strategies Inc. were at the charrette representing Dan Gilbert and Matt Cullen and Rock Ventures. They made sure to point out <a href="http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2010/02/dan_gilbert_talks_about_clevel.html">this quote from Dan Gilbert:</a> ... the casinos in Cleveland and Cincinnati "will be fully integrated into urban centers, pushing people out as well as bringing people in." He rejects the practice that some casinos have of keeping patrons in a "bunker" to encourage them to stay and gamble. "That will be the ultimate measure of our success, not just how well the casino does, but how it impacts downtown," ... They also pointed out that Gilbert is moving his suburban employees to the center of Detroit and is a major supporter of the rail initiative up there. I was sitting next to Ms Sessler when the subject of the streetcar was brought up as a possible way to connect the casino to the rest of town, and she replied "yes, definitely!"
February 22, 201015 yr I was being a little harsh when I stated that the charrette was "essentially a waste of time". There were definitely some positive aspects of the event. While the whole event was UNOFFICIAL, Rock Ventures was receptive to the ideas and concerns of the local community as well as the city as a whole. I'm sure they will ultimately develop based on a return on their investment as well as generally accepted casino design guidelines. However, I think at least some of what was generated from this event will be considered. My point is that two 90 minute sessions followed by a similarly hurried assemblage (no feedback loop) meant that a lot of ideas were either not fully developed, or they weren't integrated into the final presentation. Ideas such as a whether or not a casino district would exist and what it would look like could not get beyond the basic "wouldn't it be nice" discussion. Plus the task was made more difficult since there were no decisions made yet on things like: 1) whether or not the Greyhound station would be part of the development, 2) whether or not a building on Reading Road would be included, 3) whether or not the triangular piece of land on the west owned by the City of Cincinnati would be included, 4) whether the sewer line along Gilbert would be moved, etc.... This made any real specific design choices nearly impossible. "Someone is sitting in the shade today because someone planted a tree a long time ago." - Warren Buffett
February 22, 201015 yr The length and productive capacity of the event might be proportional to how seriously the developer actually takes the idea. I just spoke to one of my partners who was a volunteer at the event. He felt that many were getting off onto tangents that was not design focussed, ie. putting hiring requirments on the casino and still debating the casinos affect on crime. I would not lay this at the feet of the developer as to whether the charrette was constructive or not. In some ways it sounds reminiscent of how 3CDC was talked about in certain circles when they first started in OTR. As someone who has helped facilitate a similar type of event (a SWOT), I can tell you that it is easier to keep a classroom of 3rd graders on task, then a room full of adults. Oh hell yes. I've done both. First graders on field trip...MUCH easier than room full of property owners. Dear God...
February 22, 201015 yr My point is that two 90 minute sessions followed by a similarly hurried assemblage (no feedback loop) meant that a lot of ideas were either not fully developed, or they weren't integrated into the final presentation. Ideas such as a whether or not a casino district would exist and what it would look like could not get beyond the basic "wouldn't it be nice" discussion. Plus the task was made more difficult since there were no decisions made yet on things like: 1) whether or not the Greyhound station would be part of the development, 2) whether or not a building on Reading Road would be included, 3) whether or not the triangular piece of land on the west owned by the City of Cincinnati would be included, 4) whether the sewer line along Gilbert would be moved, etc.... This made any real specific design choices nearly impossible. Wow, and they want to be operational WHEN?
February 23, 201015 yr Yeah, if they want to be ready by 2012 (ha) then they need to hire a designer pronto. The law does allow them to expedite a few things, I think. I second that keeping a room full of property owners/community members on track is difficult, in fact it may actually be an impossibility.
February 23, 201015 yr they need to hire a designer pronto. Do you think it will be GBBN or FRCH? I hate it when YOU people use quotes without names/time/etc. ;)
February 23, 201015 yr they need to hire a designer pronto. Do you think it will be GBBN or FRCH? Not sure if the question is genuine, but I would put my money on FRCH.
February 23, 201015 yr The length and productive capacity of the event might be proportional to how seriously the developer actually takes the idea. I just spoke to one of my partners who was a volunteer at the event. He felt that many were getting off onto tangents that was not design focussed, ie. putting hiring requirments on the casino and still debating the casinos affect on crime. I would not lay this at the feet of the developer as to whether the charrette was constructive or not. In some ways it sounds reminiscent of how 3CDC was talked about in certain circles when they first started in OTR. I lay everything at the feet of the developer. It's their project. All charrettes are hard to keep on task, but when they are conceived and paid for by a particular interest who expects some level of guidance and a set of deliverables, they can be more productive. In this case the "particular interest" would be the developer. As an alternative example, the city of Charlotte has a Developer Response system where they call in a consultant-managed charrette process to represent the city's input on a major private project or infrastructure decision. But to Cincy's defense, usually the first pow wow is all over the place, with people airing their grievances and going on tangents. That's why they are often set up as a series over several days.
February 24, 201015 yr Area Near Casino Site Springing Back To Life Local entrepreneurs are already placing their bets on the new casino planned for Over-The-Rhine. http://www.wlwt.com/video/22650944/index.html In this case the "particular interest" would be the developer. I disagree. The "particular interest" in the charrette was the community. This was the community input to the developer, who can take that input or not. The quality of the input is in question from this charrette due to those giving due in large part to their own unresolved issues, not those receiving it.
February 24, 201015 yr Area Near Casino Site Springing Back To Life Local entrepreneurs are already placing their bets on the new casino planned for Over-The-Rhine. http://www.wlwt.com/video/22650944/index.html In this case the "particular interest" would be the developer. I disagree. The "particular interest" in the charrette was the community. This was the community input to the developer, who can take that input or not. The quality of the input is in question from this charrette due to those giving due in large part to their own unresolved issues, not those receiving it. No shout out for you in the video?
February 24, 201015 yr I am a humble man willing to let everyone else take the credit. (but we know the truth :wink2:)
February 24, 201015 yr Area Near Casino Site Springing Back To Life Local entrepreneurs are already placing their bets on the new casino planned for Over-The-Rhine. http://www.wlwt.com/video/22650944/index.html In this case the "particular interest" would be the developer. I disagree. The "particular interest" in the charrette was the community. This was the community input to the developer, who can take that input or not. The quality of the input is in question from this charrette due to those giving due in large part to their own unresolved issues, not those receiving it. Sorry you'll have to rephrase that, I don't understand the last sentence.
February 24, 201015 yr This development is very exciting for the local economy for sure. It could really help out the surrounding neighborhoods, BUT what worries me the most is since the developers/designers are given so much space to work with, it will look like every suburban casino. There will be no unique urban design, no thought of the cities history, and most likely avoiding the street grids. I hope this isn't the case but damn, the lot is huge and I'd rather see them take half of it and the rest go for mixed-use.
February 24, 201015 yr Not sure if the question is genuine, but I would put my money on FRCH. That was a genuine question and a much discussed topic with us as one of our partners was formally with FRCH. The quality of the input is in question from this charrette due to those giving due in large part to their own unresolved issues, not those receiving it. Sorry you'll have to rephrase that, I don't understand the last sentence. What came out of the charrette or didn't come out of the charrette was largely due to some still having a hang up on their personal feelings against the casino. It was described to me, by several people now, that it was tough to keep the focus on what the charrette was meant to be focused on at times due to those wondering off onto subjects that the charrette was never meant to tackle. That is not the fault of the the developer, but those who could not get beyond their own distrust and ultimate disdain for the casino itself. Tune in today at 1:00 to 700 WLW as Dan MacDonald discusses with Bill Cunningham about the casino and OTR.
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