1 hour ago, simplythis said:

Is it big Enough? Can it Compete with other cities? https://www.cleveland19.com/video/2024/07/26/huntington-convention-center-cleveland-gets-49m-makeover-can-it-compete-with-big-leagues/

 

They got ASAE in a couple weeks, which is the trade show for trade show people. That is a huge get. Last 2 years they were in Nashville, Atlanta and New Orleans. I went when it was in Atlanta years ago and the energy was terrible because the facility was too big for the event size. I bet the energy will be great here because it will feel busy without being obnoxious. 
 

I have worked in trade shows and I think our biggest challenge for getting national events is breaking the stereotype that Cleveland is not a fun travel destination and we have fewer direct flights compared to bigger cities. 

 

Actually, alot of events liked Cleveland but the old CC was not deemed adequate to accomodate those events. 

The "too few direct flights" thing is, in fact, a problem.

As for the "not fun" part, you have, right downtown:  Playhouse Square's multiple entertainment type offerings, the Casino, casual to fine dining, Hilarities comedy club, Major League sports venues, the R&RHOF, the science center, Flats bars and restaurants, and seasonal boat rides on the river and Lake Erie.  Beyond that your have UC's museums/culture, Ohio City and the WSM, the Metroparks with golf courses up the wazoo etc.  New Orleans may have a Creole vibe and historic charm, but do they offer as much as we do, as listed above?  Their winter and spring climate probably helps them in those seasons.  To Cleveland's detractors, exactly what are we missing?  Is it a vibe, a coolness factor, a lack of super luxe offerings, a place to hang out where beautiful people go?  LOL, got me!

Yes, Cleveland has a lot to offer. Unfortunately, I think it is still perceived by many who have not been here recently as an old rust belt city with crappy weather. There was an issue with a lack of hotel rooms at one time, but I'm not sure that is still the case.

2 hours ago, urb-a-saurus said:

The "too few direct flights" thing is, in fact, a problem.

It’s only as much as a problem as it is for Columbus and Indianapolis, both of which are assessed to ahead of CLE on the convention front.  If anything, Cleveland is batting slightly ahead both of those cities on the direct flight front, so let’s not pretend that only an airport issue is holding Cleveland back. 
 

 

Quote

 

Cleveland has more to offer than most of their so called peer cities.  I view Cleveland competing with cities a step up given the history, culture and amenities that cities such as Columbus and Indy do not have.  The new leadership we have in the county and city are now laying the foundation to take advantage of our assets. I have never been more confident where Cleveland is headed.  

23 minutes ago, brtshrcegr said:

It’s only as much as a problem as it is for Columbus and Indianapolis, both of which are assessed to ahead of CLE on the convention front.  If anything, Cleveland is batting slightly ahead both of those cities on the direct flight front, so let’s not pretend that only an airport issue is holding Cleveland back. 
 

Count the nonstop destinations at CLE vs. CMH vs. CVG 

I don't think the lack of nonstop flights is an issue. Just because there is no nonstop flight from a particular cities doesn't mean they can't get here.  And if it is a regional convention, most attendees are probably driving rather than flying. 

 

Edited July 28, 2024Jul 28 by LibertyBlvd

2 hours ago, brtshrcegr said:

It’s only as much as a problem as it is for Columbus and Indianapolis, both of which are assessed to ahead of CLE on the convention front.  If anything, Cleveland is batting slightly ahead both of those cities on the direct flight front, so let’s not pretend that only an airport issue is holding Cleveland back. 
 

Capital cities will always have a step ahead in the convention business for state-wide conventions, which for obvious reasons gravitate towards the center of government (and also in Ohio and Indiana, are also geographically central).  

5 hours ago, LibertyBlvd said:

Yes, Cleveland has a lot to offer. Unfortunately, I think it is still perceived by many who have not been here recently as an old rust belt city with crappy weather. There was an issue with a lack of hotel rooms at one time, but I'm not sure that is still the case.

 

Exactly. People who host events—especially national events—want the city they pick to help them sell their event. The city itself is part of the product. It’s not like if they pick a city everyone shows up (unless it’s something very exclusive like a political convention). If you host a run of the mill event, you run the risk of having low attendance if people don’t find the location compelling and it’s hard to get there for people who don’t live nearby. 
 

 

11 hours ago, urb-a-saurus said:

Count the nonstop destinations at CLE vs. CMH vs. CVG 

I’m sorry, but no. If you have a point to make, then make it, but I’m not gonna do your work for you.
 

if you disagree with my comment, that’s fine, but I’m not gonna do your homework for you. 

52 minutes ago, brtshrcegr said:

I’m sorry, but no. If you have a point to make, then make it, but I’m not gonna do your work for you.
 

if you disagree with my comment, that’s fine, but I’m not gonna do your homework for you. 

LOL!

15 hours ago, urb-a-saurus said:

As for the "not fun" part, you have, right downtown:  Playhouse Square's multiple entertainment type offerings, the Casino, casual to fine dining, Hilarities comedy club, Major League sports venues, the R&RHOF, the science center, Flats bars and restaurants, and seasonal boat rides on the river and Lake Erie.  Beyond that your have UC's museums/culture, Ohio City and the WSM, the Metroparks with golf courses up the wazoo etc.  New Orleans may have a Creole vibe and historic charm, but do they offer as much as we do, as listed above?  Their winter and spring climate probably helps them in those seasons.  To Cleveland's detractors, exactly what are we missing?  Is it a vibe, a coolness factor, a lack of super luxe offerings, a place to hang out where beautiful people go?  LOL, got me!

Don't forget strip clubs right nearby that are easily accessible and somewhat "normalized" and not hidden or ultra seedy. Love it or hate it...its a perk for certain convention goers. I never minded that kind of stuff being in the mix in the flats even though I have no interest. Big world class cities have that in the mix.

I feel like Cleveland might be onto something, a smaller nimble well designed space that offers lots of natural light and outdoor space as opposed to a giant mega center of windowless rooms. Like dying mega malls that have gone the way of the Dodo, maybe..just maybe, the future is what Cleveland is providing, and Las Vegas and Columbus, Indy and the others from the 90's convention center boom are the Dodo when it comes to most modern conventions?

21 hours ago, urb-a-saurus said:

Count the nonstop destinations at CLE vs. CMH vs. CVG 

I took a look because I was curious and slightly bored lol, and from what I could find CVG and CMH both have more direct flights/destinations. CVG about 55, CMH about 53 and CLE about 40 which surprised me a bit actually. These are according to the airport websites. Certainly correct if wrong. 

 

https://www.cvgairport.com/nonstop-destinations/

 

https://www.clevelandairport.com/flight-information/non-stop-cities

 

https://flycolumbus.com/passengers/nonstop-flights/
 

 

Edited July 28, 2024Jul 28 by 646empire

7 hours ago, metrocity said:

I feel like Cleveland might be onto something, a smaller nimble well designed space that offers lots of natural light and outdoor space as opposed to a giant mega center of windowless rooms. Like dying mega malls that have gone the way of the Dodo, maybe..just maybe, the future is what Cleveland is providing, and Las Vegas and Columbus, Indy and the others from the 90's convention center boom are the Dodo when it comes to most modern conventions?

You may be on to something, Cincinnati just broke ground on a big convention center renovation and something that the developers hit on was the importance of having a top of the line modern open with natural light tech driven building not necessarily the size being a focus.

25 minutes ago, 646empire said:

I took a look because I was curious and slightly bored lol, and from what I could find CVG and CMH both have more direct flights/destinations. CVG about 55, CMH about 50 and CLE about 40 which surprised me a bit actually. These are according to the airport websites. Certainly correct if I’m wrong.

Yes, exactly.  The suggestion to count was in response to a prior statement, "If anything, Cleveland is batting slightly ahead both of those cities on the direct flight front,"  although, granted, some the higher count at CVG and CMH is due to much less than daily flights from Breeze and Allegiant.  At CLE, the count is fluctuating a bit due to Frontier's scheduling contortions.

 

I suspect that @Libertyblvd is right in that the nonstop flight counts are not a primary determinant for conventions.  After all, my wife is flying to MSN (Madison, Wi.) for one, and Cleveland attracted the RNC in 2016.  Cleveland should now be quite competitive.

 

Edited July 28, 2024Jul 28 by urb-a-saurus

8 minutes ago, urb-a-saurus said:

Yes, exactly.  The suggestion to count was in response to a prior statement, "If anything, Cleveland is batting slightly ahead both of those cities on the direct flight front," 

Gotcha yea that comment was definitely not true even if you adjust these numbers to daily vs non daily Cleveland is still behind a bit from what I’m seeing. In regards to conventions tho from what I understand flights matter a TON for the big time events/conventions and a little less so for the more common mid size groups. As long as you have consistent flights to and from the major connecting hubs host cities should be pretty solid in bidding. Airlines are getting better at adding flights for “special events” too.

These number of daily flights probably reflect cargo ops also (FEDEX, UPS and others).  CVG has alot if these flights and CMH has alot of Netjet ops.

 

CVG

1,225 weekly flts

Serving 83 airports

12 countries served

 

CMH

942 weekly flts

Serving 56 airports

3 countries served

 

CLE

948 weekly flts

Serving 50 airports

6 countries served

 

And you are right about the ULCC carriers. They can inflate number of flights but their service is sketchy

 

The concept of non-stop flights being deciding factors in whether company's relocate or where conventions are held is a little overblown

 

If a company wants to relocate, they will always cite non-stop flights because it is one factor that cannot be replicated easily. The losing city can usually match everything the winning city pitches but air service. That us typically mentioned when companys go to CLT, ATL, IAH, DFW, etc

 

NOTE these totals reflect ALL aircaft not just airline flights

 

Edited July 28, 2024Jul 28 by B767PILOT

11 minutes ago, B767PILOT said:

These number of daily flights probably reflect cargo ops also (FEDEX, UPS and others).  CVG has alot if these flights

 

CVG

1,225 weekly flts

Serving 83 airports

12 countries served

 

CMH

942 weekly flts

Serving 56 airports

3 countries served

 

CLE

948 weekly flts

Serving 50 airports

6 countries served

 

And you are right about the ULCC carriers. They can inflate number of flights but their service is sketchy

 

The concept of non-stop flights being deciding factors in whether company's relocate or where conventions are held is a little overblown

 

If a company wants to relocate, they will always cite non-stop flights because it is one factor that cannot be replicated easily. The losing city can usually match everything the winning city pitches but air service. That us typically mentioned when companys go to CLT, ATL, IAH, DFW, etc

 

Yeah Amazons Central Air Hub and the DHL Americas Hub at CVG are Huge. Although I agree company relocation due to flight availability is a bit overblown it does matter. CVG having Direct to Paris and now London is certainly pushed by HQ companies like Proctor & Gamble etc.  and now GE Aerospace. I think Cleveland has enough service to be competitive for most convention business tho coupled with a modern Convention Center.

12 minutes ago, 646empire said:

Yeah Amazons Central Air Hub and the DHL Americas Hub at CVG are Huge. Although I agree company relocation due to flight availability is a bit overblown it does matter. CVG having Direct to Paris and now London is certainly pushed by HQ companies like Proctor & Gamble etc.  and now GE Aerospace. I think Cleveland has enough service to be competitive for most convention business tho coupled with a modern Convention Center.

Precisely. The exact number of daily flights or destination is a moving target, and my instinct was that CLE was generally in the same league as CMH, IND, and CVG. In fact, if it was about flights and destinations, CVG would be much stronger convention city than it is.

Obviously, the once per week flights on low-cost carriers are not making or breaking the convention industry in any of these cities, so I don’t believe it’s fair to point at CLE as THE crutch for holding conventions in Cleveland back. 

19 hours ago, metrocity said:

I feel like Cleveland might be onto something, a smaller nimble well designed space that offers lots of natural light and outdoor space as opposed to a giant mega center of windowless rooms. Like dying mega malls that have gone the way of the Dodo, maybe..just maybe, the future is what Cleveland is providing, and Las Vegas and Columbus, Indy and the others from the 90's convention center boom are the Dodo when it comes to most modern conventions?

I feel like we're sacrificing a lot for those windows and natural light into the convention center. Mall B now doesn't meaningfully connect to mall C, and the plans for any landbridge from Mall C are bending over backwards to accommodate the convention centers windows. Imagine how much better the landbridge could be if we didn't have to accommodate the convention center windows. We could have a traditional wide landbridge, without a hole in the middle. If we ignored windows maybe we could make an overpass from malls B to C (we already built half of it), no need to deal with cars, continuous pedestrian flow from shore to core. None of this is likely to happen, but we're missing out on alot of interesting and appealing options by insisting on natural light into the convention center. Personally, I'd say make it a bland interior black box, and prioritize the pedestrian experience of downtown, but I'm not in charge, probably for good reason. 

Hi @Ethan

 

Was there ever consideration years earlier for placing a huge skylight or sun tunnel down the center of the Mall?  The open grassy area isn't all that inviting as is.

 

Thx for your comments above.

 

D.O. 

 

 

Edited July 29, 2024Jul 29 by DO_Summers
Spelling

Columbus has a very vibrant urban retail scene in the Short North one block from its convention center which is missing from Cleveland.  This adds to the draw of Columbus over Cleveland during convention downtime.  Professional sports venues, Playhouse Square and the Rock Hall are phenomenal draws but not close to the Cleveland convention center. Like it or not, retail adds vibrancy and a big city feel to Columbus that Cleveland does not have.  

^ I was thinking about the relative lack of great retail, myself.  The declines of retail at The Avenue, the Arcades, and lower Euclid Ave. make for a real "improvement opportunity."  On the other hand, LOL, you still CAN buy a Cleveland t-shirt!

How many residents is it going to take to add national retailers to downtown? 

21 minutes ago, JB said:

How many residents is it going to take to add national retailers to downtown? 

I'd be thrilled to get even Marshall's or TJ Maxx. 

28 minutes ago, JB said:

How many residents is it going to take to add national retailers to downtown? 

 

This is a great question.  Curious what the typical downtown residents appetite for retail is... what stores, what volume of sales, etc.

 

2 hours ago, JB said:

How many residents is it going to take to add national retailers to downtown? 

 

My pessimistic take from living downtown up until a few months ago: half of the problem is that everything is so much more expensive downtown that it's rationale to shop outside of downtown--even if you live downtown, provided you have a car. Given that, retail rents either need to go down substantially (unlikely), or you need a) enough residents to create traffic making leaving downtown too difficult for the savings, or b) enough car free residents willing to pay higher prices which will be more than offset by not having a car. Basically, as long as it's rational for downtown residents to shop somewhere outside of downtown I don't see downtown retail thriving. More residents will help, but I think the turning point will come when either of the two above conditions are satisfied. 

Has anybody heard an opening date for the Fidelity Hotel on E6th?  I'm planning to be in town for a long weekend 10-14 October and hope to give it a try.

21 minutes ago, Ethan said:

 

 

My pessimistic take from living downtown up until a few months ago: half of the problem is that everything is so much more expensive downtown that it's rationale to shop outside of downtown--even if you live downtown, provided you have a car. Given that, retail rents either need to go down substantially (unlikely), or you need a) enough residents to create traffic making leaving downtown too difficult for the savings, or b) enough car free residents willing to pay higher prices which will be more than offset by not having a car. Basically, as long as it's rational for downtown residents to shop somewhere outside of downtown I don't see downtown retail thriving. More residents will help, but I think the turning point will come when either of the two above conditions are satisfied. 

I just don’t get how other bigger cities downtown have retail, especially national brands, but ours cannot support it.

What are the similarities/differences between the shopping preferences of tourists/conventioneers vs local residents?

 

36 minutes ago, Dougal said:

Has anybody heard an opening date for the Fidelity Hotel on E6th?  I'm planning to be in town for a long weekend 10-14 October and hope to give it a try.

https://fidelityhotelcle.com/ says opening Winter 2025.

46 minutes ago, JB said:

I just don’t get how other bigger cities downtown have retail, especially national brands, but ours cannot support it.

Really.  Downtown retail is practically non-existent or questionable is most mid size and even larger cities in my experience and it has been trending like that for the past twenty years.  Downtown department stores have been gone for years.  In my experience only larger coastal cities and Chicago have anything approaching downtown retail vitality and in the past few years even large cities like Chicago and San Francisco have been struggling.  I was in booming Denver a few years back and was appalled by their one sorry downtown mall which was half empty with no name stores for the most part.

Edited July 29, 2024Jul 29 by Htsguy

I think it's hard to compare to larger cities but if you look at more comparable cities like Pittsburgh and Detroit, Cleveland is severely lacking. I don't really understand it - there is pretty much no national retail of any kind. Meanwhile, Detroit as H&M, Gucci (!), Under Armour, Nike... Pittsburgh has Target, they still have their Brooks Brothers... It's incredibly frustrating. I'm not sure what the answer is. Tower City seems to have systematically been emptied of every last national retailer that was hanging on. 

I believe Bedrock is focusing on local, minority-owned business for Tower City more so than national retailers.

 

Edited July 29, 2024Jul 29 by LibertyBlvd

 

1 hour ago, JB said:

I just don’t get how other bigger cities downtown have retail, especially national brands, but ours cannot support it.

Cleveland is a unique situation in terms of retail because you essentially have 5 large concentrations of retail within a 20 minute drive or less of the city with Pinecrest, Crocker, Legacy Village, Van Aken and Steelyard. In my opinion all of the retail at these places should be downtown but instead it is spread out and makes it so that these national retail chains dont feel the area can support another location downtown that close to the other.

13 hours ago, Sapientone said:

Columbus has a very vibrant urban retail scene in the Short North one block from its convention center which is missing from Cleveland.  This adds to the draw of Columbus over Cleveland during convention downtime.  Professional sports venues, Playhouse Square and the Rock Hall are phenomenal draws but not close to the Cleveland convention center. Like it or not, retail adds vibrancy and a big city feel to Columbus that Cleveland does not have.  

 

The market definitely adds a ton to CBUS, but honestly you aren't getting much of the short north without a bit of a walk (I've definitely woken up early/skipped a session to get one line coffee in the morn). Unfortunately I think it's a convention center thing to be inconvenient and keep people at the facility.

 

Here's a map of .3 miles around each convention center - not sure if it's still the case but they used to say most people don't want to walk over .25 miles without driving.

 

CBUS: 

 

CLE:

^ yeah and out here in ny the javits was in utter hellhole no man’s land for decades. even today people just tend to hover around right outside it during breaks. nowadays there is the hudson yards mall fairly close at least, but it seems conventioneers like to stick close by, at least during the day. i would guess most of the business you can potentially catch would be end of the day. also its irregular large groups which is a pia.

Sad news, the owner of Tours of Cleveland passed away Sunday. 😔

42 minutes ago, MayDay said:

Sad news, the owner of Tours of Cleveland passed away Sunday. 😔

Oh no. That’s a shocker. Took an out of town work group on his tour one time and he was great. I’d see him around town constantly. RIP. 

 

 

Demolition to begin Wednesday at former Sheraton Hotel near Cleveland Hopkins Airport

 

Story by Anna Meyer

 

 

Demolition will begin on Wednesday at the former Sheraton Cleveland Airport Hotel. 

 

…

Officials say that Cleveland Hopkins International Airport will symbolically kick off the demolition of the former Sheraton Hotel at 9 a.m..

 

3News plans to stream the demolition, which can be watched in the media player at the top of the story and on our YouTube channel. 

 

This is one of the early components of a multi-year Terminal Modernization Development Program. 

 

According to 3News' partner Cleveland.com, the property is expected to be used to add surface parking to the airport grounds in the short term. In the long term, the city is considering adding a second parking garage to the airport property.

 

 

more:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/demolition-to-begin-wednesday-at-former-sheraton-hotel-near-cleveland-hopkins-airport/ar-AA1rx9RY

 

On 7/29/2024 at 12:18 PM, LibertyBlvd said:

I believe Bedrock is focusing on local, minority-owned business for Tower City more so than national retailers.

 

Which is interesting because he subsidized rent at his Downtown Detroit properties, at least initially, which drew H&M downtown.

1 hour ago, MyPhoneDead said:

Which is interesting because he subsidized rent at his Downtown Detroit properties, at least initially, which drew H&M downtown.

Tower city is going to be included in the riverfront project and is going to see some big changes. 

 

@KJP reported in 2022 “The 300,000 sq ft Avenue at Tower City is proposed to have the middle level of the shopping center removed”…“in the years to come, Tower City will undergo interior and structural updates to maximize flow, eliminating obstructions at the Huron Road level and scaling down to the riverfront”

 

We haven’t seen (or I haven’t at least) many interior renders of what Tower City will look like, but I’m assuming it is going to be a big enough undertaking that they aren’t ready to pursue national brands and were probably working to remove tenants to simplify construction.

 

Meanwhile the local businesses are a nice PR move for them and probably have a small enough footprint that they can be shuffled around during construction. 

In hindsight, it might have been wise if Forest City developed Tower City on a smaller scale with two levels instead of three.

1 hour ago, Henke said:

Tower city is going to be included in the riverfront project and is going to see some big changes. 

 

@KJP reported in 2022 “The 300,000 sq ft Avenue at Tower City is proposed to have the middle level of the shopping center removed”…

 

Sadly, Bedrock has not submitted any plans for Tower City redevelopment. So there's no indication that any meaningful investment in Tower City is forthcoming.

 

The riverfront is a different story however.

19 hours ago, LibertyBlvd said:

In hindsight, it might have been wise if Forest City developed Tower City on a smaller scale with two levels instead of three.

It was a huge success for a short time but the future was obvious when the Rock Hall moved, the phase 2 river phase and notably Nordstrom fizzled and as a result the phase 1 high-end retailers slowly moved on. Forest City then began to liquidate their Cle holdings as the loyal to Cleveland elder family leaders retired and the next generation moved on to glamour markets to develop or live. We are lucky Dan Gilbert has a plan to revive the Riverfront dream and pick up where the Ratners/Millers and Jacob’s brothers tried (as can be seen in this 90s pic)

Edited October 3, 2024Oct 3 by Willo

I’m not sure what the odds of it happening are, but I will continue to believe that the best future for Tower City is to reroute Cleveland’s Amtrak station to CUT and redevelop Tower City into something akin to Denver Union Station.