I'm a fairly new Clevlander, and I'm still learning about the culture and dynamics of the region.

 

I've never been any place else in the country where there was such a strong divide between different parts of the metropolitan area.  Here, it seems like those living west of the Cuyahoga River seldom go east of downtown, and those living east seldom venture west of Ohio City.

 

Based on what I've experienced, I'm under the impression that the vast majority of my peers -- young, single educated professionals -- are West Siders.  Looking through women-seeking-men profiles on match.com is like reading a gazetteer of West Side suburbs: Rocky River, Lakewood, Bay Village, Lakewood, North Olmsted, Lakewood, Westlake, Lakewood, North Ridgeville, Lakewood, Medina, Lakewood, Lakewood, Lakewood, Lakewood ... you get the idea. There's relatively little mention of the Heights 'burbs among the profiles, and almost nothing in Lake County.  The "New to Cleveland" group on meetup.com always meets on the West Side; never the East.  When I tell someone that I live in the Heights area, I often get the same reaction as if I told them I lived in Erie.

 

The young professionals I do meet from the East Side, with a few exceptions, tend to be Jewish (as I am), African-American, or divorced soccer moms with children.  There are some young professionals moving to Cleveland Heights, University Heights and South Euclid, but compared to the West Side, it's not that many.

 

So, do most single professionals in Cleveland really live on the West Side?  If so, why?  Proximity to downtown?  Cheaper housing?  Something else?

 

 

First, what your definition of young?

 

Regardless, I'll say eastside!  As I've lived my entire life (sans a few years in europe for work) in Shaker Hts, or the Shaker Square area of Cleveland.

First, what your definition of young?

 

Out of college, 20s and 30s.

Hmm, this is an interesting question. I'm surprised you haven't run across more YPs in Cleveland Heights. There is also a healthy population of young people in Shaker Square, where MyTwoSense lives. The museums and universities of University Circle are the big attraction for these young people, as well as the vibrant retail strips of Cleveland Heights and Shaker Square. Still, Cleveland Heights doesn't seem to have the cache among YPs that it once did; Coventry, once the nexus of the bohemian scene in Cleveland, has become dominated by sports bars. The East Side has always been where the "old Cleveland money" is, and perhaps this patrician air scares off less established Clevelanders.

 

I agree with your point that the near West Side and Lakewood seem to be the current places of choice for most young, new-to-Clevelanders and young refugees from the suburbs. I believe these areas are appealing to YPs because they are 1) close to downtown without being separated from it by four miles of abandonment (as are the hip East Side neighborhoods) and 2) have a lot of cool, edgy stuff going on.

Well clearly the East side yuppies are too cool for match.com and meetup.com, duh.

First, what your definition of young?

 

Out of college, 20s and 30s.

 

Ok we'll im young at heart.  Does that count?  :wink:

 

Blinky has a point, the Near West side started its resurgence a decade/15 years ago.  Now the near east side is planting the seeds of recovery, in places like china town/Asian Village (where blinky, the pope and 8shadesofgrey) reside.  As well there is a smathering of "fill in" development all around the lower east side.

 

THe Hillcrest communities (CH, SH, UH, SE & BW), to me are still a great cities with a great deal of places for young single (professionals) or single families.  Some downside to living on the east side, is housing stock, which is expensive and the old money gaurd, creates an invisible barrier in some east side 'burbs.  However, we do have better shopping!

 

I'm a fairly new Clevlander, and I'm still learning about the culture and dynamics of the region.

 

I've never been any place else in the country where there was such a strong divide between different parts of the metropolitan area.  Here, it seems like those living west of the Cuyahoga River seldom go east of downtown, and those living east seldom venture west of Ohio City.

 

Based on what I've experienced, I'm under the impression that the vast majority of my peers -- young, single educated professionals -- are West Siders.  Looking through women-seeking-men profiles on match.com is like reading a gazetteer of West Side suburbs: Rocky River, Lakewood, Bay Village, Lakewood, North Olmsted, Lakewood, Westlake, Lakewood, North Ridgeville, Lakewood, Medina, Lakewood, Lakewood, Lakewood, Lakewood ... you get the idea. There's relatively little mention of the Heights 'burbs among the profiles, and almost nothing in Lake County.  The "New to Cleveland" group on meetup.com always meets on the West Side; never the East.   When I tell someone that I live in the Heights area, I often get the same reaction as if I told them I lived in Erie.

 

The young professionals I do meet from the East Side, with a few exceptions, tend to be Jewish (as I am), African-American, or divorced soccer moms with children.  There are some young professionals moving to Cleveland Heights, University Heights and South Euclid, but compared to the West Side, it's not that many.

 

So, do most single professionals in Cleveland really live on the West Side?  If so, why?  Proximity to downtown?  Cheaper housing?  Something else? 

 

 

Cleveland's Jewish community is located on the East Side.  Cleveland Hts., Shaker Hts, University Hts., are pioneers in diversity which is why you see alot of young african americans and lately asian american professionals moving there and with the proximity to University Circle the city allows those youngsters to be close to home and work.

 

If you got a strange "look" from someone from on the west side, you would get the same look from someone on the eastside, if you told them you lived in Parma or North Royalton.

 

Cleveland isn't the only city with "regional divides", look at the N/S distinction, in Chicago; Manhattan vs. the "outer boro's"; Southbeach vs. the rest of Miami-Dade; LA to Santa Monica & the Inland Empire; East Bay to San Fran in the Bay Area.

 

Well clearly the East side yuppies are too cool for match.com and meetup.com, duh.

 

Im Glad you said that!  Had I said it I would have been labeld and east side snob.

I'm 25, and I live in Lakewood and I just recently discovered a friend from high school in the Akron area now lives across the street. So, there are a lot of younger folks up in this joint.

 

I do go to University Circle, Little Italy and Cleveland Heights quite a bit, though.

There's been other discussion threads on this forum about Cleveland's East-West divide, but for some reason I can't find them. Here's one I did find...

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=8734.0

 

But the city's east-west divide goes back to the Cleveland-Ohio City "Bridge War" of the early 1800s. Do a Google search sometime using these search terms:

 

Cleveland Ohio City bridge war

I'm a bi-Sider myself.  Grew up on the far eastside (Mentor, not a fan) then moved to Lakewood after college, and now reside in OC.  And it's funny that you say that most younger people you run into are on the West Side, because 95% of the younger people that I work with live in Cle Heights or other East Side cities.  So I guess what I'm trying to say is... well...  I don't know what the hell is going on except that there is absolutly nothing to go south of Harvard for.

Ok, south of 480.  Forgot about Old Brooklyn.

I didn't know that young people really lived in Rocky River, Westlake, etc. I assumed that they all lived in Cleveland Hts, Ohio City, Tremont, Lakewood, Clifton, and downtown. You're missing out on a large chunk of hipsters if your circles don't include those areas.

Yeah, I think there are quite a few young people in Westlake and Rocky River... Not as much as Lakewood, I don't think, but there are newer apartments and condos there especially Westlake.

^All those dynamic cosmopolitans living in Crocker Park.

Don't tell Richard Florida that the kids like suburbs, too.

I think that it is just Lakewood (and Edgewater) that skew the numbers to the westside, although Tremont/Ohio City are gaining broader popularity.  Lakewood is very cheap and yet offers a safe but fun semi-urban environment for young suburban folks just getting out on their own.  The comparable eastside burbs are more expensive.

i'm a YP on the East Side. I've always believed that I should live on the West Side because that's where most of my "like-minded" associates are.

 

The only other thing the East Side is good for is a gluttony of college students. But being past that stage in my life, I keep leaning towards a residence on the west side (or at least downtown)

First - can someone tell me why Tremont is considered "west side"? It may be west of the Cuyahoga, but it sits EAST of Public Square. I'm not saying it's an east-side neighborhood but look at the map:

 

 

"Here, it seems like those living west of the Cuyahoga River seldom go east of downtown..."

 

Sorry but that's the furthest thing from what I've experienced. Most west-siders venture east plenty of times, usually for events/outings in University Circle (museums, orchestras, etc.), Little Italy (Feast), or Cleveland Heights (Cain Park, Coventry, Cedar-Lee), and shopping - particularly near Beachwood/Legacy.

 

Now, what I *have* experienced is the notion that "east siders never cross the river" - not all, but enough for me to make a generalization.

 

My guesses as to why YPs might favor the West Side:

1. Lower property taxes (with the exception of Lakewood).

2. Generally, lower rental prices.

3. Proximity to the Lake (Edgewater and Lakewood Parks).

4. Better highway access to downtown and "hot spots" in Ohio City/Tremont.

5. Established bar scene (west side Irish).

Ontario Is the East/west dividing line. A straight line down ontario makes Tremont part of the West. That and its street numbers have that W..

^I think that people consider the river the dividing line. 

i've always believed the river is the diving line....

I always thought it was the direction of the streets (thus Ontario being the divider).

 

 

great mayday, thanks for the can of worms

I've always believed the river is the diving line....

^I think that people consider the river the dividing line. 

 

Pope, the "diving" line?  Where people so distressed to move to the west side they dived into the Cuyahoga instead? Or does Cleveland have an underground cliff diving history/following and this information didn't make it into the Cleveland Memory Project archives? :evil:

 

I too have always thought the "divider" was the river.

As someone who is fairly new to Cleveland, 2 years, and never visited before in my life, one of the reasons I was more attracted to the west side was the proximity to Downtown.  I live in Edgewater and used to work in Shaker Square and it was the most dreaded commute I ever had.  I would try to take the Rapid but since I was always going outbound when everyone was going in, it was a disaster.  And I don't mean to offend anyone, but driving down Woodland from Downtown to Larchmere feels like a war zone.  Now I work in Downtown and my commute is 10 minutes on the 55X.

 

I love areas like Coventry and UC, but trying to use Public Transportation there is horrible, hopefully the EC will make things better.  If they move the Rapid Station to Little Italy I think that will improve things as well.

As someone who is fairly new to Cleveland, 2 years, and never visited before in my life, one of the reasons I was more attracted to the west side was the proximity to Downtown.  I live in Edgewater and used to work in Shaker Square and it was the most dreaded commute I ever had.  I would try to take the Rapid but since I was always going outbound when everyone was going in, it was a disaster.  And I don't mean to offend anyone, but driving down Woodland from Downtown to Larchmere feels like a war zone.  Now I work in Downtown and my commute is 10 minutes on the 55X.

 

I love areas like Coventry and UC, but trying to use Public Transportation there is horrible, hopefully the EC will make things better.  If they move the Rapid Station to Little Italy I think that will improve things as well.

 

why do you feel the rapid was a disaster from downtown to Shaker Sq.?  The Blue/Green lines run every 15 minutes (and at more frequent intervals during rush hour) regardless of direction

 

I love areas like Coventry and UC, but trying to use Public Transportation there is horrible, hopefully the EC will make things better.  If they move the Rapid Station to Little Italy I think that will improve things as well.

 

I lived car free in shaker square, university circle and Coventry. Never had any problems going downtown, or between them. That's just me.

West side 100%... 20-30 in age, hip, artsy, trendy, professional, art galleries, emerging scenes, the place to be, etc:

 

1. Cleveland's near west side neighborhoods: Tremont/Ohio City/Detroit Shoreway

2. Lakewood/Edgewater neighborhood/Clifton Blvd./Lake Avenue

also, I wouldn't want to forget the east meets west area too:

3. Downtown (WHD/Flats Westbank/E4th)

 

The only place a young professional will live on the east side is Little Italy, and at that, it's mostly college students going to CIA/CWRU.

West side 100%... 20-30 in age, hip, artsy, trendy, professional, art galleries, emerging scenes, the place to be, etc:

 

1. Cleveland's near west side neighborhoods: Tremont/Ohio City/Detroit Shoreway

2. Lakewood/Edgewater neighborhood/Clifton Blvd./Lake Avenue

also, I wouldn't want to forget the east meets west area too:

3. Downtown (WHD/Flats Westbank/E4th)

 

The only place a young professional will live on the east side is Little Italy, and at that, it's mostly college students going to CIA/CWRU.

 

You're joking, right?

^seriously.

 

oh, and just to make you mad, larchmere is poo-hole.

I'm sorry, I think I need to clarify.  I didn't mean it was a disaster taking the rapid from downtown to shaker, actually the ride is quite pleasant.  The problem that I ran into was that RTA would send all of its trains back to the yard between 8:00-8:45 AM which left me sitting there for quite a while.  I wrote a letter to RTA and they told me they were having some personal issues and that's why it was happening.  It did get better after awhile but it still wasn't very fun sitting there and watching three trains go by before one that was in service would show up.

 

As for the frequency of service in UC, I think I am just accustomed to the 7 minute 55X, which makes everything else seem so long to downtown.

 

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

I always thought it was the direction of the streets (thus Ontario being the divider).

 

 

 

very interesting, nice detective work. i am convinced. how funny -- it's one of those things i've always noticed, but never paid attention to.

 

however, in popular opinion it's always gonna be the river is the great divide.

 

 

 

^seriously.

 

oh, and just to make you mad, larchmere is poo-hole.

 

I hope never find jeans that fit!   :-P

Frankly, I think that there's some pretty well developed pools of young professionals on both sides of town, and at least with the other young people I know best, we cross the river all the time. I've been East Side my entire 4.5 years in Cleveland (currently in Asiatown; previously in Shaker Square). I know other young people who live in Shaker Square, Collinwood, Slavic Village, Little Italy, University Circle, Downtown, Tremont, Ohio City, Detroit Shoreway, Edgewater and Old Brooklyn. As has been mentioned, the most young professional-oriented suburbs seem to be Lakewood, Cleveland Heights and Shaker Heights. And by and large, people tend to circulate between both east and west side neighborhoods. I don't think that the east-west divide is quite as pronounced among younger people as among the Boomers and older generations, just as I think divides between race, gender and sexual orientation are less pronounced among young professionals (although still there to a degree).

 

One thing that's amazed me is how distinct the hipster or young professional groups seem to be from neighborhood to neighborhood. Every nabe seems to have a different flava. My impression: the outlying Cleveland neighborhoods (Shaker Square, Little Italy, Collinwood, Old Brooklyn and the Heights) seem to attract a quieter, more family-oriented group of young people, along with the "coffeeshop" hipsters; Edgewater, the OC and Lakewood seem to attract the "community" hipsters (policy wonks, planners, community activists); and Tremont, Asiatown and Slavic Village seem to attract more of the "artsy" hipsters. And the sports bar crowd live downtown. 

 

These are broad generalities (so please don't be offended), but it might explain a disconnect I see on Urban Ohio: the belief that young professionals overwhelmingly live on the West Side, when I feel like a ton of us live on the east side. Maybe the west side neighborhoods have a disproportionate amount of young professionals who are engaged in community affairs and are therefore more likely to be forumers. Just a theory.

 

 

8shades..You lived on the square?  Who knew??  :wink:

 

I think your summed up the areas pretty well for a newbie  :clap:

I would agree with that, nice job of explaining.

definitely the west side is young professionals......whole near westside is becomin gentrified sadly, ohio city and tremont for example. i suspect the westide is the "place to be" because there arent many blacks there.

definitely the west side is young professionals......whole near westside is becomin gentrified sadly, ohio city and tremont for example. i suspect the westide is the "place to be" because there arent many blacks there.

 

WHAT?  HUH?  Can you explain that?

definitely the west side is young professionals......whole near westside is becomin gentrified sadly, ohio city and tremont for example. i suspect the westide is the "place to be" because there arent many blacks there.

 

WHAT?  HUH?  Can you explain that?

 

All dem Parma babies.

"i suspect the westide is the "place to be" because there arent many blacks there."

 

Play the race card somewhere else, because it's not going to fly here.

never living in Cleveland as an adult, I grew up Cleveland Heights, but would not move back to the burbs.

 

Seeing all the great project around Downtown, that is where I would go.  Flats looks awesome.  Those apartments rival apartments in any city.  People in Cleveland take for granted that the majority of apartments go up in nyc they are blank, crappy and overly expensive.  In Cleveland you get so much more for your money.

 

There is also and area on Prospect with nice brownstones I like.  If university circle had some condo housing and ad some restaurants, that would be an extremely desirable area. with the lagoon and musems there.

 

definitely the west side is young professionals......whole near westside is becomin gentrified sadly, ohio city and tremont for example. i suspect the westide is the "place to be" because there arent many blacks there.

Black white or purple, making a statement like that is just ignorant. 

^Have you ever, like, walked around Ohio City, Tremont and Detroit Shoreway, to name a few?  These are some of the most black/white/brown/yellow, etc, etc, nabes in the city.  Maybe your premise would fly for most WS burbs, but it's foolish to generalize that way about the city.

^Have you ever, like, walked around Ohio City, Tremont and Detroit Shoreway, to name a few?  These are some of the most black/white/brown/yellow, etc, etc, nabes in the city.  Maybe your premise would fly for most WS burbs, but it's foolish to generalize that way about the city.

 

Is that directed at me?

CTownsFinest2

I'm not young, urban and hip but old urban and hip in my own mind. But I disagree that Little Italy is the only place on the East Side. I have friends much younger than I am (go figure) who live in Cleveland Heights and they think they are young and hip anyway lolol. I sell more houses on the west side than east, but I do get peeps looking to move to Cleveland Hts, specifically Coventry because they want to be near young friends. Not a scientific study but there ya go.

i'm planning to move back to Cleveland in a few months after I graduate and I'm interested in both sides of the city.  I just had a comment/question to post.

 

It's quite obvious that Chicago moves at a much faster pace than Cleveland which can be very frustrating for us at times.  It's like projects in Chicago are of the Jello-No Bake Cheesecake type while in Cleveland, we have to milk the cows and make our own cream cheese, in addition to waiting for the chickens to lay the eggs and taking vanilla bean to make our own extract. -Gotta love Cleveland!

 

Anyways,  the slower pace of Cleveland is perhaps allowing for a regentrification of its neighborhoods at a fairer pace.  I think OC and Tremont show it the best.  There are $50,000 houses not too far from $500,000 houses and there are diverse crowds of people walking the streets.  When I worked at Bier Markt this summer and winter break, it seemed to jump out at me.  Renewal of the inner city isn't a bad thing.  When this type of thing takes place over night, then there might be some ethical questions to answer but as far as Cleveland goes (at least what I see), I think it allows for the "locals" to adjust at a more comfortable pace than in other cities.  I don't know the dynamics of social housing and things of that nature but creating spaces that improve and heal the mindset of the less-fortunate (projects that don't look the death sentences on State St.) might allow for a the most ethical/equal approach to the renewal of the inner city.  Instead of placing people in a buidling that is meant to stick out like a sore thumb, why can't they live in something that is part of the neighborhood-physically and psychologically.  Isn't that what that Hope project was attemping to accomplish? 

 

Back on subject...

 

I can't wait to graduate and I think living in Cleveland will be fun.  I do want to go to grad school abroad and work abroad as well, but as that saying goes, "they're not going to think that someone of their own kind is the prophet"...Someone told me that once and I know I totally butchered the quote but you all get the idea. 

 

Oh, and can't we pay off Daly to lose his election and pay him A LOT of $$$ to be our mayor for a couple terms?!  Please God PLEASE!

ha, i love the food analogy to the development pace.

 

(of note, Chicago is on pace to reach 100 500-fts in the near future (2-3 years))

Very interesting post.  Many people want to come home back to Cleveland but opportunities and mindset allows for some to not come back.  A city is not a true city by it streets, buildings, parks, etc... It is a city because of the peoplethat live there.  I pray,beg,scream,shout, say it in spanish, yoruba,vietnemese, any language a person will listen  THE PEOPLE NEED TO TAKE THE CITY BACK.  our feel our govt is slow and not proactive enough it makes me sooo angry.  everytime i come back home its the same leaders running the city (Dimora,Jackson,Campbell,Lawson etc.... u get the picture) and I just feel they do not think out the box enough to get the city over the top.  we need action like now.  everytime i travel the mover and the shakers in particullar cities have some type of northeast Ohio roots.  Come on noe these people are keeping us hostage ( maybe to strong of a word)  we have a diverse looking city with lotsof natural amenties and too not have waterfront accessiblty and living is just unacceptable.  Atlnat would kill for a bodt of water like that, that become an economic engine. But what do we do.  But to end on positive note things are looking a better at least in the housing market in the city with new construction

Remarking on Chicago's pace for 100+ 500 footers:

 

It's ironic but personally, I feel uninspired by living in Chicago and I would NEVER want to practice architecture in this city.  The same reason that I wanted to go to school in Chicago is the same reason that I do not want to work here.  There's a lot of construction going on and there's a rich architectural history but lately it's become the skyscraper McMansion capital of the world.  You look in the real estate section of the Tribune and it's page after page of the same in-bred condo tower.  It's hard to believe that anyone is in the business to make a building of some substance and positive, substantial effect on the neighborhood in which it is located.  Don't get me wrong, Chicago is a great city, but a greener pasture lurks (Not literally but I guess we can infer a little pun on Cle  :-P)

 

 

I don't want to seem like I have this huge ego but honestly, much more thought has to go into something being built in Cleveland.  I don't want to be an architect in Cleveland just so I'm noticed more than in another city.  That has nothing to do with my career path.  Critical thought has to go into projects back home-which at times may slow things down and ironically dilute original ideas-because each individual project will have a greater impact on the surrounding area.  With that said, I hope that the WHD especially-since there haven't been any renderings like the flats or ave. dist-does not settle for something mediocre.  Sure, there's definetly a dozen buildings in Chicago's skyline that would beef up our own, but when the time comes that something TALL is built, I hope that just because it's 500 ft or w/e, we don't settle for anything.  

 

I didn't mean to get off subject that much but I was recently looking through the Tribune and was really annoyed with what I saw.  

 

Our city has what it takes.  I honestly think there's a brighter future.  

I've always believed the river is the diving line....

^I think that people consider the river the dividing line. 

 

 

Pope, the "diving" line?  Where people so distressed to move to the west side they dived into the Cuyahoga instead? Or does Cleveland have an underground cliff diving history/following and this information didn't make it into the Cleveland Memory Project archives? :evil:

 

I too have always thought the "divider" was the river.

 

My dad lives on the east side in Lake County and thinks that Slavic Villiage is the west side!  The whole east/west thing in the Cleveland area seems to break down to perception--especially from those sheltered in the suburbs for too long.  On the converse side, I once dated a girl from Middleburg Heights whose father feared her going to the east side with me.  He was convinced that there were no white people "over there."  I hope his daughter helped to change his mind.

^are you white?