Cities are spending billions of dollars on their convention centers. They are fighting to attract business and all kinds of organizational conventions. I just got back from a fraternity convention in San Antonio. At this convention the executive committee, which i am apart of, selected where we are going to have  our 2008,2010,and 2012 National General assembly. We selected Phoenix. for all three. Now here are our reasons. :

 

They were giving us a deal:

1. We would pay a flat rate for all three years if we decided on them.

2. their hotels and convention space was TOP of the line

3. They offered many other small things like, free tickets to baseball games and our president throwing out the opening pitch.

 

I saw NO Ohio city on the list of possibly places that had submitted requests.

 

Apparently many cities are making much more money by spending much more money on attracting these large conventions.

 

What kind of tools are Ohio cities lacking to attract some of these conventions??? i know that cincy, Cleveland, and c-bus get the occasional big convention, but what makes a city a "convention HUB" cities like Orlando, Phoenix, Indy  seem to come to mind??

 

Please discuss what kinds of changes, or what programs ARE, or should be in place to help Ohio cities develop a more competitive convention base...

Las Vegas gets a ton of shows because of sin and sun factors. Weather will always keep us from getting as many shows as Phoenix, Vegas and Orlando. What time of year is your show? During certain times of year, cities without extra capacity are booked solid.

Well, as someone who just returned from Phoenix (per the buckeyes)Phoenix, Scottsdale and Tempe were, well, boring.

 

Make sure your group schedules a bunch of activities and parties for the members.

Weather helps but it isn't always a deciding factor - Chicago's McCormick Place is one of the largest in the world. Another reason Chicago, Orlando, Vegas,  etc. get such large shows is that they offer facilities that are gargantuan. For example, ONE exhibit hall in Chicago's McCormick Place is 869,000 square feet - on ONE floor. That's like taking one Tower at Erieview (a 40-story office tower in Cleveland) and putting it on one floor - and McCormick Place itself encompasses 2.2 million square feet, the equivalent of almost TWO Key Towers. Add to that the 38 loading docks for trucks - now tell me, where in downtown Cleveland, Columbus, or Cincinnati would you want such a monster? You have to understand that convention centers by nature are faceless behemoths that only serve a purpose to enclose as much contiguous space on a single floor as possible. In and of themselves, they add nothing to the urban fabric. Chicago's McCormick Place:

 

The problem is that the convention industry is all about large groups getting the best "deal". Often, that means free rooms, free meals, or other perks that might be great for the attendee but do little for economic impact. Those "many small things" they offer are great for you, but those free meals translate into lost revenue opportunities. And when you say that the cities "make more money" - that isn't money going into city coffers, that money is often going to pay off bonds specifically earmarked for the center facilities. In many cases, the convention center is bleeding money and unprofitable: http://www.cleveland.com/convention/index.ssf?/convention/more/c19effect.html

 

What makes matters worse is that taxpayers often end up footing the bill for the losses, and cost overruns. Maybe Phoenix doesn't mind sticking it to their residents, but perhaps the reality is that Ohio cities are a bit more shrewd about how tax dollars are used?

Why would these cities want these large convention centers then. There must be some sort of economic fruition that you don't know about...

Fruition for the developers, contractors, and political figures who get to put their name on it?

Rather than quickly skim my post and jump to the conclusion that I'm obviously wrong, perhaps you should read the link I posted: http://www.cleveland.com/convention/index.ssf?/convention/more/c19effect.html It's a good summary of how and why things work the way they do in the convention business. Convention centers, like casinos, would prefer that attendees spend their time and money within the confines of the exhibit halls and ancillary hotels. They have little to gain the moment people step out the doors and add foot traffic to the local vicinity.

 

I spent several years working for GES Exposition Services, the largest tradeshow contractor in the world - I think I know just a little about the business, and how the cards are stacked. I'm not saying that there aren't economic benefits, but as X said so welll, I have a very clear idea of where those benefits go - do you?

You have to understand that convention centers by nature are faceless behemoths that only serve a purpose to enclose as much contiguous space on a single floor as possible. In and of themselves, they add nothing to the urban fabric.

 

This is what always gets me with convention centers!  The area around Duke Energy Center (Cincy)...sucks imo!!!  The area could be soo much more if it had been built with street level retail...or townhouses surrounding the large structure (kinda like the Kroger parking garage).  It would have hidden the ugly faceless bldg and would have actually contributed to the urban fabric that makes downtowns unique!

 

It must be like you have said...the powers at be have no interest in what happens outside of their 4 walls, therefore why go out on a limb to try to fit in  :|  Its very sad, but appears to be true.

The area could be soo much more if it had been built with street level retail...or townhouses surrounding the large structure (kinda like the Kroger parking garage).  It would have hidden the ugly faceless bldg and would have actually contributed to the urban fabric that makes downtowns unique!

 

I have always wondered why cities/counties in general never do this when building their convention centers.  Such a missed opportunity IMO.

i wasn't saying you were wrong MayDay...sorry if it came off that way. Thanks for the post. I just was asking what kinds of benifits do you get from  conventions. i understand the hotel thing but i guess the question i am asking is,  are cities making a return on their investments, not directly necessarily, but are businesses gaining enough in order to fund some of these projects, or is the bubble about to burst?

 

What about the Moscone Center in San Francisco?

Out of the 9 or 10 centers I have been to in the past, I always felt they did a good job creating a civic space.

Don't you (anyone) think that is possible here?

 

 

 

Hmmm.....if only someone could build our new convention center underground, and then build public greenspace on top.  Wouldn't that be awesome?

Oh, let's just build it in lake erie, put on a glass roof and voila..we've got a convention center and an aquarium.

Let's just build it in Vegas.  At least then it will be successful.

^Hasn't Cleveland developed revenue-sharing agreements with local municipalities in exchange for supplying water? Hmm, I wonder if we could run water pipes that far :lol:

After my day  job I work with High School Marching Bands and Colorguards/Winterguards throughout the country and I can tell you that Indianapolis has made a tremendous push to get the National competitions of Marching Bands and Drum Corps to be held in Indy. Let me tell you, they have succeeded and it is going to amount to Millions of dollars in tourist revenue. The have signed both Drum Corps International and Bands of America to long term (10 year) deals to have their National Competitions in Indy. How did they do it? I’m not really sure, but I know that the city of Indy peeps consulted BOTH organizations on the acoustics of the new stadium they are building (for the colts) to make sure they gave them the best possible acoustics for their venues and I think that went a LONG way with both organizations. In fact they both moved their headquarters to INDY after that. So there must have been a sweet deal. Now, I think Indy is going for the trifecta….which would be WGI (Winterguard International) This scares me as WGI has long been established in the Dayton Area and their National Champions are held in the UD area. It is one of the largest events for the Dayton Area, and if it goes to Indy so will millions of tourist dollars as well as the WGI headquarters.

 

PS…I also think the INDY convention center is connected to their dome as well.

 

BOA Grand Nationals in Indy usually hosts about 90 bands with an avaerage of 150 in each band, equates to 13,500 people just in the bands alone. Add in all their staff, parents, friends, fans and you're well over 30K people that are flooding downtown indy's restuarants, hotels etc. Same will also go for the DCI Championships...well over 30K people. It was a brilliant move on Indy's part...

 

I've had similar experiences with Indy's successful convention/tourism business through Ohio State. We stayed in downtown Indianapolis and were given a daily per diem for food, however all other expenditures were out of our own pocket. We definitely contributed to Indianapolis' economy that night, with many of us spending hours at GameWorks in Circle Center and buying articles from Barnes&Nobles and other retailers. I was interested in guaging the impression Indianapolis made on my fellow students, and by in large, it was very favorable.

Add to that the 38 loading docks for trucks - now tell me, where in downtown Cleveland, Columbus, or Cincinnati would you want such a monster?

 

MayDay's right, loading docks are VERY important. Columbus' center (GCCC) actually has 36 doors, IIRC. It's flat with lots of extra space to move around. Battelle isn't complete shit, but you end up with a really small boneyard and semis have a very small area to maneuver and a small rear lot. Actually, Battelle's dock pretty much sucks. Exhibitors have no place to park in the back, and if they suck at reversing with a car trailer (which many do) it turns into a huge mess. Vets' dock is also  totally lame. The presence of only one door and a tiny staging area frustrates expo workers. The area where trailers park is downhill, making it very dangerous for those loading and unloading the trailers. Vets and Battelle are comparatively old, though, and the people who designed them didn't know any better. They're still better than some places where you have to load everything with a forklift at ground level. Sounds like a rant, doesn't it? I used to work for George Fern.

 

As far as the area around the GCCC goes, it is among the most walkable areas in Columbus. There are several places to get food (not as much at night; the Damon's even closed) tons of bars and an OK amount of hotel rooms in the area (but not enough). What Columbus REALLY needs is more upscale hotel rooms downtown. I'm talking five star. I'm not sure if it has any at all, and if it does, there aren't enough.

edit: added 2nd paragraph.

After my day  job I work with High School Marching Bands and Colorguards/Winterguards throughout the country and I can tell you that Indianapolis has made a tremendous push to get the National competitions of Marching Bands and Drum Corps to be held in Indy. Let me tell you, they have succeeded and it is going to amount to Millions of dollars in tourist revenue. The have signed both Drum Corps International and Bands of America to long term (10 year) deals to have their National Competitions in Indy. How did they do it? Im not really sure, but I know that the city of Indy peeps consulted BOTH organizations on the acoustics of the new stadium they are building (for the colts) to make sure they gave them the best possible acoustics for their venues and I think that went a LONG way with both organizations. In fact they both moved their headquarters to INDY after that. So there must have been a sweet deal. Now, I think Indy is going for the trifecta.which would be WGI (Winterguard International) This scares me as WGI has long been established in the Dayton Area and their National Champions are held in the UD area. It is one of the largest events for the Dayton Area, and if it goes to Indy so will millions of tourist dollars as well as the WGI headquarters.

 

PSI also think the INDY convention center is connected to their dome as well.

 

BOA Grand Nationals in Indy usually hosts about 90 bands with an avaerage of 150 in each band, equates to 13,500 people just in the bands alone. Add in all their staff, parents, friends, fans and you're well over 30K people that are flooding downtown indy's restuarants, hotels etc. Same will also go for the DCI Championships...well over 30K people. It was a brilliant move on Indy's part...

 

 

The important thing to realize, especially for these two events in particular is that they are 4-5 day events. We had brought up earlier, in that article, that most people are only staying, on average, one day in their respected cities. For these events, people are staying the entire time. . . . lots of money :)

^But do band geeks really go out a spend their money...I would have thought they would stay inside and play videogames  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

watch it rando... there are more of us than you think on here... i ma pretty sure neville has our back as well

Yes, I did forget to mention that. ...these are pretty much week long events in Indy!

 

And yes they go out and spend tons of money...especially when you have a mall connected to the hotels/convention center/Dome. Plus there are a TON of great restuarants within walking distance.

 

And yes...there are more of us than you think!!! :-)

The cities that make the most money on events are the ones that have figured out how to maximize the return on their investments. (Which is a huge conversation) San Antonio, Indy, and Denver are learning how to make sports, conventions and events a major economic development tool to not only bring money into town, but to stimulate construction/redevelopment and ultimately attract business to relocated to the city. Example: The new LOS in Indy has been designed not just for the Colts but for band events, NCAA events and extra space for conventions. Now you have a facility that is generating money and economic development for a community throughout the year that helps to create a vibrant downtown. This is how you can offset the cost of building these giant facilities and getting a real return on your investment and move your city forward.

watch it rando... there are more of us than you think on here... i ma pretty sure neville has our back as well

 

Damn straight

Convention Center Not Living Up to Lofty Goals

Declining Attendance Limits Economic Impact

DANA HEDGPETH / WASINGTON POST

February 19, 2007

 

WASHINGTON D.C. - Nearly four years ago, city officials opened the $850 million Washington Convention Center with a string of superlatives. The largest publicly financed project ever built in the city, they said, would attract more than a million visitors a year, fill hotels and set off an economic boom. Instead, convention attendance is dropping, the surrounding neighborhood is yet to be transformed by the promised new development, and conventioneers are filling fewer hotel rooms than expected.

 

For more information, please click the link.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/18/AR2007021801431.html

Most shows, especially trade shows, are getting smaller. People can find out all they need about a product online, then order it directly.

They're more likely to attract outsiders than sports stadiums. Less than 1/3 of patrons that go to Orioles games come from outside the city (even though D.C. is close by and has no baseball team). I'd imagine other cities are similar. I'd rather see money invested in convention centers more than I would sports stadiums--it seems like they're used more often too. I like the design of the Columbus' convention center :]. Going to the Arnold Classic soon... it has a huge impact on the city and it should be interesting to see that many people concentrated from the convention center, nationwide arena, to veterans memorial.

Less than 1/3 of patrons that go to Orioles games come from outside the city (even though D.C. is close by and has no baseball team).

 

What about the Washington Nationals?  Columbus' new major league affiliate!

Less than 1/3 of patrons that go to Orioles games come from outside the city (even though D.C. is close by and has no baseball team).

 

What about the Washington Nationals?  Columbus' new major league affiliate!

D.C. didn't have the Nats when that study was done.

My chapter of my fraternity won the bid last year to hold our District Convention. Our district includes Ohio, Indiana, Kentucky, Illinois, Michigan, and Wisconson. We are holding the Convention at the Northern Kentucky Convention Center. We are actually the first chapter of the fraternity to use an actual convention center and not just the Conference center and facilities at the hotel. I'm also the coordinator for it and we will be pumping $30,000 alone into the Center and this doesn't include however much money the 800-1000 attendees will spend in the area.