How about one of these for cleveland. 

 

 

 

Which -- the mountains? Or the bay?? The bridge we're getting. It's just getting built in the wrong place.

I dont know anyone personaly at ODOT to my knowledge and yet I do not like them.  intresting, it seems there are so many intrest groups involved with bugging ODOT that they cant help but piss off a few of them, though it seems the current plans piss off everyone.  That should be indicative of something...  just a thought.

Op/Ed pd:

 

Editorial: Fix Cleveland's Inner Belt, but keep the Carnegie ramps

Fixing the Inner Belt, while retaining Carnegie ramps, would help keep vehicles and businesses from crashing

Thursday, October 25, 2007

 

A broad consensus of political, civic and business leaders now agrees that the exit ramp to Carnegie Avenue from Interstate 90 should remain open as part of a massive transportation project smoothing the highway's most dangerous sections through Cleveland...

 

It's a compromise that has taken years to reach. And it addresses the valid concerns of neighborhoods and businesses that feared losing their access - and therefore, their residents, customers and suppliers - if the ramp were closed. Doing so would harm too many businesses located downtown and in Midtown Cleveland, including the Cleveland Clinic, which supports the compromise...

 

"Frankly, the juvenile court building is a dump. No reasonable person would object to its disappearance."

 

That's quite a bold statement.

Agreed.  The building is actually quite nice, though it no longer works as a juvenile justice center.

 

So are we to guess that this means some sort of outsized cloveleaf from Solon hell is in the works for the Carnegie exit?

Probably. So by all means let's let ODOT eat up more of a walkable, historic downtown for a bigger, higher-capacity highway investment in a county that already is in non-attainment with EPA air quality standards (that will get tighter in 2009) that imposes higher costs on businesses even though mobile sources (cars, trucks, buses) generate two-thirds of the air pollution in Cuyahoga County. And, by the way, this highway investment is like expanding the Titanic mid-route so it can carry more people and be dependent on an ill-fated ship. With peak oil icebergs looming, it makes much more sense to change course or, better yet, return to the shipyards of ODOT to retrofit the ship of Greater Cleveland with more options to ensure our local economy's survivability. Instead, we are continuing on a collision course, full steam ahead.

 

Brilliant.

^why so ambivalent?                      :wink:

 

I am still hoping for a miracle southern alignment for the bridge

cleveland.com

 

Inner Belt Bridge rehab to start in '10, bring traffic snarls

Posted by Sarah Hollander December 19, 2007 23:37PM

Categories: Breaking News, Impact

 

The Inner Belt Bridge is deteriorating faster than expected, which means the 119,000 motorists who cross the bridge daily will face huge traffic snarls when the state starts to fix it in 2010.

 

The Ohio Department of Transportation originally planned to build a new Interstate 90 bridge over the Cuyahoga River, then rehab the existing 48-year-old bridge, estimated to cost more than $140 million. But the state will speed up its repair plan and delay building the new bridge....

I hope that we get this right.  IIRC, the shoreway could be under construction/improvements at the same time, so folks use RTA!

We need to emphasize and accelerate planning for the West Shore Corridor commuter rail project. Yesterday, the West Shore Corridor stakeholders met to discuss its 2008 priority tasks. I wish I had known yesterday about this decision to accelerate major repairs to the Inner Belt bridge, else I would have urged an acceleration of the West Shore Corridor project, or at least the introduction of a preview rail service. The ODOT rep at the meeting didn't saying anything about the Inner Belt timetable as something that could be considered.

I was listening to the podcast of Cimperman's City Club speech today (http://cityclubpodcast.optiem.com/CityClubPodcast-071214.mp3) and the first question to him was regarding the Inner belt project (fast-forward halfway through the podcast - 28 minutes in). 

 

I was going to paraphrase his comments, but I'm no writer/reporter and don't want to mis-state.  I would encourage you to listen if you're interested.  He gives his viewpoint of where it's at right now, and even seems to indicate that the Northern Alignment of the bridge is still a possibility. 

try this:

 

[mp3=200,20,0,center]http://cityclubpodcast.optiem.com/CityClubPodcast-071214.mp3[/mp3]

He gives his viewpoint of where it's at right now, and even seems to indicate that the Northern Alignment of the bridge is still a possibility. 

 

A possibility? The northern alignment is what ODOT is going to do as long as FHWA approves it. And I don't expect them not to approve it.

He gives his viewpoint of where it's at right now, and even seems to indicate that the Northern Alignment of the bridge is still a possibility. 

 

A possibility? The northern alignment is what ODOT is going to do as long as FHWA approves it. And I don't expect them not to approve it.

 

Ah, %&$#, my mistake.  For some reason, I was "turned around" in my head when listening to it.  I was thinking of the southern alignment that was abandoned early in the process.

Inner Belt cap drawing by ODOT should win a prize for cognitive dissonance

Posted by Steven Litt/Plain Dealer Architecture Critic May 09, 2008 17:12PM

Categories: City Planning

 

This drawing, oriented so that North is down, shows how a Carnegie Avenue exit ramp (indicated in pink) would slice across the southern edge of a highway cap (indicated in yellow) that would sit atop reinforced walls next to the rebuilt Inner Belt between East 22nd and East 24th streets. As the drawing states, the ramp would be "open above,'' meaning that it would create a mini-canyon separating the cap from the area to the south. Put simply: The ramp would render the cap totally pointless.

 

Institutions on the east and south flank of downtown Cleveland have argued for eight years that when the Inner Belt is rebuilt by the Ohio Department of Transportation starting in 2010, part of it should be capped.

 

Surprise: ODOT has agreed to it. That's fantastic news. But don't get too excited. What ODOT gives in one drawing, it snatches away on the very same piece of paper...

 

 

This beautiful and easily legible rendering was created by City Architecture of Cleveland for an urban design study for the Inner Belt that was halted for a year starting last summer by the Ohio Department of Transportation. More renderings like this would make it easier for the public -- and community officials -- to understand exactly what ODOT plans to do with the Inner Belt.

I don't understand why any open air above the ramp is needed.

ODOT's Inner Belt project urgently needs public scrutiny

by Steven Litt/Plain Dealer Architecture Critic

Sunday May 11, 2008, 12:00 AM

 

COMMENTARY

 

The mission to redesign Cleveland's downtown Inner Belt -- one of the biggest highway projects in the city's history -- took a deep dive last year and hasn't come up for air yet. The Ohio Department of Transportation shut down public meetings abruptly last summer for at least a year. ODOT wants federal highway officials to approve critical paperwork before inviting any more comments from its clients -- that is, from us.

...

 

Proposal: Turn I-90 into a tollroad from where it leaves the Ohio Turnpike in Elyria to Rocky River.  This will shift "cross country" traffic to I-480 and I-271 south and east of Cleveland.  It is five miles further to detour around Cleveland.

 

Build  the Opportunity Corridor "extension" of I-490 to the University Circle neighborhood to shift local/metro traffic away from the Innerbelt and Innerbelt Bridge.

 

Then we won't need more capacity or a new Innerbelt Bridge (until we "run out" of oil).  I-480 will be worse, especially east of the Cuyahoga River.  (The cable-stayed bridge idea is pompous in any context).

 

Brent Larkin of the Cleveland Plain Dealer editorialized to get the Opportunity Corridor.  http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/brent_larkin/index.ssf?/base/opinion/1206779448229150.xml&coll=2

Notable was that Larkin explained how Columbus gets all the highways they need but Cleveland is disorganized.  The people who run the Gap and the Dispatch run the town. 

Here's why I question putting a highway through the city's poorest neighborhoods:

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,2267.msg286036.html#msg286036

ODOT tearing down the cold stage building at W14th is a travesty.  Another building from our industrial past bites the dust. 

ODOT: celebrating over 50 years of destroying Ohio's cities!

Bump for the newbies who are posting on the Random Cleveland thread.

 

Yes, Independent Towel is coming down.

The smokestack was cut down years ago due to falling bricks and mortar disentegration.

The decision to demo the building was made about 5 years ago and there were many meetings in which one could have made comments arguing for or against its demo.

 

Not sticking up for ODOT... lord knows they have no clue, but when this project first started out they did do much to keep the public involved.

 

2 lanes of Inner Belt Bridge closed while steel connections inspected Posted by Karen Farkas / Plain Dealer Reporter September 30, 2008 14:47PM

 

 

Categories: Breaking News, Traffic

 

 

Marvin Fong/Plain Dealer photo fileInnerbelt Bridge Workers inspect a gusset plate on the Inner Belt Bridge in Cleveland in November.

 

CLEVELAND - The two outer lanes of the Inner Belt Bridge have been closed at least through the end of the week, and perhaps longer, while the Ohio Department of Transportation inspects steel connections under the span. The lanes, and the Ontario Street entrance ramp to I-90 westbound, were closed around noon today. The action was taken to reduce the weight load of vehicles on the bridge, said Jocelynn Clemings, spokeswoman for the district that includes Cuyahoga County...

Parts of Inner Belt Bridge closed while ODOT checks decaying steel connectors

ODOT engineers checking decaying connectors beneath span

Wednesday, October 01, 2008 Karen Farkas Plain Dealer Reporter  

 

Rush-hour traffic jams and lane closings will continue this week while workers inspect five deteriorating steel connectors under the Interstate 90 Inner Belt Bridge.

 

The Ohio Department of Transportation closed the outer eastbound and westbound lanes Tuesday to reduce weight on the aging span while engineers determine the extent of the connectors' deterioration...

 

To reach this Plain Dealer reporter:

[email protected], 216-999-5079  

Too bad Dennis can't investigate ODOT :roll:

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2008/10/two_more_innerbelt_bridge_lane.html

 

Two more Inner Belt Bridge lanes, three more downtown ramps shut down

Posted by Patrick O'Donnell/Plain Dealer Reporter October 02, 2008 02:55AM

Categories: Real Time News

 

Two more Inner Belt Bridge lanes were shut down overnight along with three more downtown highway ramps -- including a key one from Interstate 77 northbound -- because of deteriorating bridge parts.

 

Now two lanes in each direction over the heavily traveled Interstate 90 bridge and four ramps are closed and will remain that way until at least next week...

From the Pd

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2008/10/how_serious_are_the_inner_belt.html

 

How serious are the Inner Belt Bridge's problems? Span's future in questionPosted by dsims October 02, 2008 23:12PM

John Kuntz/The Plain DealerEngineers from the Ohio Department of Transportation examine a deteriorated section of the Inner Belt Bridge where the steel truss meets the arch. It is among five corroded steel sections that led ODOT to close two lanes in each direction on the I-90 bridge.

The nearly 50-year-old Inner Belt Bridge, one of Ohio's major transportation links, is deteriorating beyond anyone's expectations.

And its future as a rehabilitated span could be in jeopardy.

 

 

I say close it....tear it down....and force all to use 490.  Then rebuild and reconnect the neighborhoods that were divided when it was erected.

 

Down with the innerbelt bridge!

I agree.  And why waste the 140 Million repairing it, when they can alter the plan and put that towards a better single span. 

I say close it....tear it down....and force all to use 490.  Then rebuild and reconnect the neighborhoods that were divided when it was erected.

 

Down with the innerbelt bridge!

 

Amen!  Has ODOT ever articulated whether such a plan would work?  Despite what traffic engineers think, people are not lemmings.  They would find new ways to get to work.  The 490 solution/new streetgrid (proposed by KJP years ago) would go a long way to helping heal those neighborhoods. 

It's starting to sound like this bridge won't be around all that long.  And that does suggest we'll need a larger, more iconic single span for both directions.  Preferably not the styrofoam-wishbone design like Toledo got.

 

As much as I'd love to see the trench disappear, I doubt anyone wants to creep up Broadway from 490, and Central Cadillac et al would absolutely flip out.  That said, maybe this is the chance to get ODOT to reconsider the entire innerbelt concept.  It would be nice if downtown could grow to the south.  Clearing that cloverleaf would also help the Broadway/55th area ALOT, as would replacing its direct-to-Tremont bridge.

 

Regarding Tremont bridges, there was talk of including pedestrian access on the new innerbelt.  I think it was nixed as too costly...?  Seems like all possibilities should be open if we need to start fresh anyway. 

As much as I'd love to see the trench disappear, I doubt anyone wants to creep up Broadway from 490, and Central Cadillac et al would absolutely flip out.

 

Note that my concept would retain the trench. It would move it to open more downtown land for development and allow CMHA to replace those horribly outdated public housing projects (aka: human storage facilities) with a mixed-income, mixed-use neighborhood where the Central Interchange is located today.

 

Also see the pictures I took to show existing conditions where the rerouted Inner Belt would be built (under my little, $1 billion idea):

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,2438.msg137459.html#msg137459

^^^I like that.

^^I like it too

 

This enitre project is a hugh moving target and it rarely surprises me when things change.  ODOT really put the cart before the horse on this and are paying for it, as are the tax payers.  Who knows, maybe things could change for the better.

Absolutely love your $1 billion idea KJP!  Invest the money now and save long term.  Get rid of a costly bridge and other infrastructure (central interchange).  Simplify the system and everyone's happy.

From WTAM.com:

 

Innerbelt Anguish

Thursday 10-02-2008 5:27am ET

Not a good situation if you work or drive through downtown and your commute involves 71, the Jennings, or 90 Westside.

 

The Innerbelt Bridge is down to only 2 lanes in each direction. That means a big squeeze inbound at the merge before West 14th (which ramp is already closed); outbound your big merge begins at East 9th. To accomodate drivers making their way on the Innerbelt South, ODOT went ahead and closed the entrance ramps from 77 North, East 14th, East 9th and Ontario to the Innerbelt South. You can still get on at East 26th, East 24th/Chester and Prospect. Get used to driving on 490 & 77; if the West Shoreway is accessible consider yourself lucky.

Clifton was backed up this morning.  People are probably diverting there after an epic cluster happened on the innerbelt yesterday.  I bet we can forget about any modifications to Rt 2 until the 90 situation is resolved.     

Absolutely love your $1 billion idea KJP! Invest the money now and save long term. Get rid of a costly bridge and other infrastructure (central interchange). Simplify the system and everyone's happy.

 

Thanks. And it adds only 45 seconds to the trip of those driving through Cleveland on I-90.

Absolutely love your $1 billion idea KJP!  Invest the money now and save long term.  Get rid of a costly bridge and other infrastructure (central interchange).  Simplify the system and everyone's happy.

 

It makes too much sense for ODOT, KJP.  Seriously, I think it's a GREAT idea.  It would save a lot of money and would only cost drivers 0.8 miles.

^ I am sure this has been asked before KJP, but has YOUR plan ever been oficially proposed to anyone at ODOT or the City of Cleveland?  If not...why the heck not?  If so, what kind of response did you receive?  I think your plan needs to somehow be presented to the public to get some backing! (other than on UO)

I like KJP's concept too.  One bridge over the river (current 490 bridge) makes sense, though there would then never be an alternative when it is rebuilt in 40 years.  Relocating the highway out of downtown is consistent with what they have done in other cities, is it not?  (Memphis, for instance)

I like KJP's concept too.  One bridge over the river (current 490 bridge) makes sense, though there would then never be an alternative when it is rebuilt in 40 years.  Relocating the highway out of downtown is consistent with what they have done in other cities, is it not?  (Memphis, for instance)

 

At that point, if automobile traffic is even still the main mode of transportation, they could build the new bridge while the old one is still there, similar to how they did the I-271 bridge over the Cuyahoga River Valley.

 

It really does make a lot of sense to reduce the number of bridges and take the freeway out of the middle (or close to it) of downtown.

^ I am sure this has been asked before KJP, but has YOUR plan ever been oficially proposed to anyone at ODOT or the City of Cleveland?  If not...why the heck not?  If so, what kind of response did you receive?  I think your plan needs to somehow be presented to the public to get some backing! (other than on UO)

 

I have varying levels of advocacy. At "Minimal Mission Level 1"  :wink: I tell people what I think and maybe write a column about it. At Moderate Mission Level 2 I write more about it and even draw maps or use photos to explain ideas. Sometimes I even meet with a public official or two about it. And at Mission Critical Level 3 I go out and raise funds, organize meetings, issue reports, hold press conferences and testify at hearings.

 

On this project, I'm somewhere between levels 1 and 2. I am already working on one Mission Critical Level 3 advocacy effort (West Shore Corridor) and one Moderate Mission Level 2 effort (Ohio Hub System). Those are in addition to my newspaper job.

 

Thus, I am more than willing to assist others in taking on this advocacy project. But that's as far as I can go right now.

...

Also see the pictures I took to show existing conditions where the rerouted Inner Belt would be built (under my little, $1 billion idea):

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,2438.msg137459.html#msg137459

those U-store-it facilities for people....

Housing project Cabrini Green was built to fit all of those poor minorities into the smallest possible area because the city fathers didn't want them taking up a lot of the city's precious real estate.

Ok, that's a bit strong, but that's Mike Royko.  He wrote that column after the death of a Chicago policeman at Cabrini-Green. (paraphrased)

I would think the innerbelt project is much more important to the transportation needs of the area than the West Shore Corridor project.

I would think the innerbelt project is much more important to the transportation needs of the area than the West Shore Corridor project.

 

Please.  Eliminate this thing and put the funds from it into building a rapid rail (subway) system for Cleveland City.

I would think the innerbelt project is much more important to the transportation needs of the area than the West Shore Corridor project.

 

Apples & oranges.  Something does need to happen with the innerbelt soon, but only because we're not set up to function without it.  West Shore Corridor and rail in general are far more important in the long term.  I really would like to see the KJP concept implemented though.  ODOT should be bombarded with that diagram.

I really would like to see the KJP concept implemented though. ODOT should be bombarded with that diagram.

  I agree.

I would think the innerbelt project is much more important to the transportation needs of the area than the West Shore Corridor project.

 

Except that I have a $40,000 budget to advocate for West Shore Corridor. I don't have that available to put the relocated Inner Belt front and center on elected officials' agendas.

Ahhh how great a Rapid loop would be..