^Yeah, I saw it.

 

What's sad is...it's Southwest Ohio's first "true" lifestyle center (that West Chester thing...oy).  And it's...in...Beavercrick...

You wanna fight, CDM? :box:

^Sorry, I don't slaughter pigs.

From the 2/5/06 Dayton Daily News:

 

 

The Greene will offer upscale shopping, living, working, dining options to affluent consumers

Complex offers open-air, 'new urbanism' stylings

By Stephanie Irwin

Dayton Daily News

 

In Dayton, retailers and their customers are either "in the triangle, or out."

 

That's how the developer of The Greene, the $186 million shopping complex opening in late summer at Indian Ripple Road and Interstate 675, flaunts the three neighboring and most affluent communities in the Dayton area to future tenants.

 

 

http://www.daytondailynews.com/localnews/content/localnews/daily/0205greene.html

 

In case anyone is too lazy to follow the link to the article and/or register at the DDN site, I though the image accompanying that article might be of interest.  By the way, check out the street names they've got on there.  Walnut, Chestnut, Plum, etc... so original.  (Glengarry is actually an existing street coming across from Kettering, not one of their invented names.)

One of these days the DDN is going to catch on to this hotlinking and screw up my posting of their images...

...while liquor permit requests show Cheesecake Factory and B.D.'s Mongolian Barbeque are considering opening there.

 

Is all that matters.

Dammit!!!  I forgot to post the attachment.  Thanks for picking up the slack, PigBoy.

Those street names make me want to puke. 

If you live in the Dayton area, then this message is for you.

 

What stores and/or restaurants would you like to see at The Greene?

 

Personally, I would like The Greene to offer:

The Cheesecake Factory

The Sharper Image

Club Monaco

Nordstrom

Urban Outfitters

Gameworks

H&M

Paul Frank

Jamba Juice

Gloria Jean's

 

More importantly, I believe that The Greene should have stores and restaurants that you can't even find in Cincinnati, Columbus, or Indianapolis in order to generate travel and revenue for the Dayton area.  Here are just a few examples:

 

Armani Exchange

Burberry

Cartier

D&G

Gucci

Hermes

Kate Spade

Louis Vuitton

Neiman Marcus

Tourneau

Versace

Zara

 

Please let me know what you think.  Thanks and God Bless!

Well, they all SOUND nice but we all know most of those stores aren't coming.

 

The Cheesecake Factory

The Sharper Image

Urban Outfitters

Gameworks

H&M

 

Are certainly potential (and some confirmed).

We all know the only one that you really care about, ColDay. :wink:

Yes.

 

Gameworks :).

I wish we could get those stores in Ohio! Columbus, Dayton or Cincy should get a Burberry, Louis Vuitton(free-standing), Cartier or Bulgari, Neiman Marcus, Gucci, Armani, and Zara. At one time Columbus did have a Ralph Lauren and Gucci, but they closed! Damn it!!! We now have a Saks, Nordstroms, Von Maur, Henri Bendel, H&M, Cole Haan, and Intisimissi(an Italian lingere store whose only free standing store is at Easton, I think.) I hear that Neiman Marucs may come to Tuttle Crossing or Polaris or Bloomingdales!!!

I think right now all anyone can hope for is for Steiner to do better with retail at the Greene than they did at Newport on the Levee. (or maybe some may hope they don't have any more success than they did with retail at NOTL ;))

 

My opinions on some of the stores you listed....

 

The Cheesecake Factory - it'll be there

The Sharper Image - already have a Brookstone store at Fairfield Commons, so close enough for me

Nordstrom - If Cincinnati can't get one....

Urban Outfitters - a possibility

Gameworks - a better possibility

H&M - If Fort Wayne can get one, so can Dayton

Paul Frank - nope

Gloria Jean's - not sure why the one in Fairfield Commons closed

 

 

And no chance in hell for Dayton:

 

Armani Exchange

Burberry

Cartier

D&G

Gucci

Hermes

Kate Spade

Louis Vuitton

Neiman Marcus

Tourneau

Versace

Zara

Sears?

^^^ LOL

 

Would that be with the Automotive center??? LOL

^And photo center.

^And dental care.

Nordstrom looks at all markets with 1million or more residents, so that could be very, very, very slight possibility, but IMO it makes more sense to put one in Cincy before Dayton. As I mentioned in a previous post Neiman's is really only interested in Cleveland at this point. and they need alot of high-income families to stay afloat, so Dayton's smaller population and thus smaller high-income population would probably keep them out, -that's pretty much the same story for all the other Ultra luxury stores you mentioned.

Why is Neiman Marcus interested in Cleveland? Is it location, number of people, the amount of income? Cleveland already has a Hermes, its within another store, but its not a free standing location. Besdies, Hermes is way too damn expensive! I heard that they have handbags for $25,000!!! For that much money, that damn handbag better be able to do the dishes, do my homework, do my job for me and get me a new car!!!

^ Its not as much location, but it is the combination of all the other things you mentioned and the strength of sales and location of Beachwood Place. Saks and Nordstrom do very well there and the mall is located in an area that has demographics retailers love.

Kenwood and Easton/Polaris could also easily hold a Neiman Marcus, if we are talking demographics.  But there is already a smaller Neiman Marcus store in Cleveland so it makes sense.

yes -- put a jamba juice in greene. i am addicted to the purple acai energizer mix drink. i need my jamba in hand to walk around & mall shop.

ColDay

 

No, my contact at Neiman's states poor sales at Saks, one of the two stores Neimans directly competes with and smaller population of the CO and Nati,  as a reason they aren't yet considering those locations. I think all the 3 Galleries of Neiman Marcus stores across the nation (the small Neimans you mentioned) have been closed.

^

     Actually the Galleries of Neiman-Marcus (I think that was the name) closed a few years ago at Beachwood.  They since have cut up the space for a few smaller format stores like Eddie Bauer.  Also if I remember right, that entire concept went under (there were stores in Seattle and one other city that escapes my mind).  I'd expect that Kenwood and Polaris (seems to fit more than Easton) would be able to support one as their demographics don't seem all that different from Beachwood.

 

     Mov2Ohio, do you have any inside information regarding Neiman's interest in NE Ohio over other portions of the state, or is it from casual conversation.  While I wouldn't complain about another major high-end retailer opening up, I was curious as to how different the markets would be to justify one over the other.

    Sorry about the redundant posts, I guess we both posted at the same time.  I guess I'm still curious as to how serious of an interest N-M has in Cleveland.

I hope that the Saks in Columbus does well. We have the population and the money to support it or at least I hope to hell that we do! If not a Neimans, I'll take a Bloomingdales. Why can't Les lure them to Columbus!

I hope that all the Saks in Ohio do well too. Maybe it just needs to mature, it is still only 5 years old so maybe time will translate into progressively better sales especially as the population continues to grow in Central Ohio. afterall the Saks at Beachwood is almost 30 years old, so its had a long while to get where it is.

 

N-M evaluates each market when development opportunities come up. What development opportunities in Cleveland they could be I do not know. I know this year in Ohio they plan to evaluate the Cleveland market.

 

As far as the Greene, Does anyone know what stores have signed leases? Will this be an upscale center or more mid-market?

Makes sense. I didn't know that the Saks in Beachwood has been there for 30 years. How long has the Saks in Cincy been in business. Speaking of Saks, they just opened a new Chanel boutique in the Columbus location, so I hope that is a sign that there is demand and that they are doing good business

ColDay

 

No, my contact at Neiman's states poor sales at Saks, one of the two stores Neimans directly competes with and smaller population of the CO and Nati,  as a reason they aren't yet considering those locations. I think all the 3 Galleries of Neiman Marcus stores across the nation (the small Neimans you mentioned) have been closed.

 

I don't know how population has anything to do with it seeing how Cincinnati region is as much as Cleveland's.  It's all economics. 

^ I'm not sure either. I guess they either consider Cleveland as being composed of both Cleveland and Akron (3mill) or they include all of Northeast Ohio as Cleveland (4.5 Mill).

oui cdm, avec dayton.

 

often these decisions can be more numbers than economics. it may seem weird, but the stores are just about as happy with returns as with sales. the reason is in big retail at the individual store level it is all about turnover and product movement and that takes a lot of people to happen, not just how wealthy there are. since the stores being discussed above are roughly middle rung enough everyone is in the game otherwise.

But you figure "avec Dayton," Cincinnati has 3.1 million.  Cleveland-Akron-Canton has about, what, 3.3 million?  So clearly, in that instance, it shouldn't be about population numbers.  Columbus, perhaps, but Columbus could also cite how it gets heavy retail shoppers from West Virginia and central/southeastern Ohio.  Each of the Three C's has more than their share of market size but I suppose they'd go with Cleveland due to the history with Neiman Marcus, eh?

Cleveland also gets large amounts of shoppers from the western New York and Pennsylvania areas. There are even buses that semi-annually take shoppers from Pittsburgh to the Nordstrom in Cleveland.

 

I don't really think history is the only reason. They also look at the number of catalog orders they get from a region and how many N-M credit card holders are in the area. Neimans was supposed to come when Tower City center first opened, then they opened Galleries of N-M so obviously they are interested and have been for a while so NEO must have something they like.  In Cleveland's case its deciding if Neimans can sustain a store with Saks being in the picture and that is what they are going to determine this year.

 

 

well i dk there cdm -- based on the numbers you are exaggerating. why did i get roughly 2.7m pop on a 2004 ohio pop chart when i added up the top dozen counties in sw ohio and 3.7m for the top dozen in the ne part of the state? i didnt check my work tho heh. if that holds the numbers are more go in ne ohio for the retail.

 

http://www.odod.state.oh.us/research/files/g701.pdf

Cincinnati-Dayton's 3.1 million is over a considerably larger area than the same population in NE Ohio.

well i dk there cdm -- based on the numbers you are exaggerating. why did i get roughly 2.7m pop on a 2004 ohio pop chart when i added up the top dozen counties in sw ohio and 3.7m for the top dozen in the ne part of the state? i didnt check my work tho heh. if that holds the numbers are more go in ne ohio for the retail.

 

http://www.odod.state.oh.us/research/files/g701.pdf

 

Did you include northern Kentucky and southeastern Indiana suburbs?

Cincinnati-Dayton's 3.1 million is over a considerably larger area than the same population in NE Ohio.

 

Certainly, as SW Ohio makes Atlanta sprawl look like Denver's.  But that doesn't negate the fact that there are 3.1 million folks within an hour drive of, say, Kenwood or West Chester.

Cleveland also gets large amounts of shoppers from the western New York and Pennsylvania areas. There are even buses that semi-annually take shoppers from Pittsburgh to the Nordstrom in Cleveland.

 

I don't really think history is the only reason. They also look at the number of catalog orders they get from a region and how many N-M credit card holders are in the area. Neimans was supposed to come when Tower City center first opened, then they opened Galleries of N-M so obviously they are interested and have been for a while so NEO must have something they like.   In Cleveland's case its deciding if Neimans can sustain a store with Saks being in the picture and that is what they are going to determine this year.

 

 

 

Oh, totally.  But wouldn't you presume that if N-M opened a "botique" store there, that they would already have their name out in the Cleveland area, thus more catelog/credit card holders?  It's kinda the same idea as Publix having more credit card holders in, say, Atlanta, than Columbus, as Atlanta already has the brand, has the name engrained, etc.  Say Publix closed.  Say they want to re-open.  Would they go to Atlanta or Columbus first? 

 

Of course, you can't compare Publix (a grocery chain) to Neiman Marcus but you get where I'm coming from.  The closest Neiman Marcus (I presume) is in Chicago, to Cincinnati.

Cincinnati-Dayton's 3.1 million is over a considerably larger area than the same population in NE Ohio.

 

Certainly, as SW Ohio makes Atlanta sprawl look like Denver's.  But that doesn't negate the fact that there are 3.1 million folks within an hour drive of, say, Kenwood or West Chester.

 

If you do it that way then 4.5 million live within an hours drive of Legacy Village and Beachwood Place. I see now what your saying about history. The closest N-M is in Detroit.

Regardless if it's 4.5, 3.1, or 15.6 million, there are markets in all three for a Neiman Marcus, as the population is there.

Did you include northern Kentucky and southeastern Indiana suburbs?

 

i did look. if i rearranged deck chairs and used say ky counties to replace more northern outlyers it still came out the same wash of 2.7m anyway i sliced up twelve counties around hamilton. eh. whatev.

 

you are exactly right tho that really all three c's markets could support newer to the area big chains like n-m. i'd just hesitate on cols tho because n-m or any other biggie chain entry into that market would prob depend on the whim and will of les. he might not want the competition or he might want the synergy, who knows? but he would have a big say.

i'd just hesitate on cols tho because n-m or any other biggie chain entry into that market would prob depend on the whim and will of les. he might not want the competition or he might want the synergy, who knows? but he would have a big say.

 

Totally.

I hope that Les would want to bring Neiman Marcus(or Bloomingdales) to Columbus. Just curious, but how would Neiman Marcus affect his business?

Chicago-style dining coming to The Greene

 

Restaurants-America, the Chicago-based owners of Bar Louie, confirmed this week they will build a 6,700-square-foot stand-alone property next to the site's 14-screen movie theater, said Roger Greenfield, co-owner of Restaurants-America.

 

Greenfield said the Beavercreek Bar Louie will have 200 seats inside the building plus 100 more in an outdoor patio, complete with a fire pit. He estimates the building will cost $2 million and have 60 employees. Greenfield said the bar will open in October, coinciding with the official opening of The Greene. The $186 million retail center had been slated to open in August.

 

Greenfield describes Bar Louie as "a hip martini bar with great food." The menu consists of a slew of appetizers, sandwiches, burgers and salads such as the Chicken Pesto Panini ($8.99), the Louie Burger ($8.99) and the BBQ Chicken Salad ($9.99).

 

The Greene, a 900,000-square-foot outdoor retail center, is being developed by Columbus-based Steiner and Associates, known for regional malls such as The Easton Town Center in Columbus and Newport on the Levy in Newport, Ky. Greenfield has put Bar Louie pubs into Easton and Newport, so The Greene is just a logical next move.

 

"I think Steiner runs great malls, and Easton is one of our top-performing units," he said. "We think Dayton is a great market."

 

Greenfield and co-owner Ted Kasemir opened the first Bar Louie in Chicago in 1990. It took the duo eight years to tweak the concept before opening the second location. The company now has eight Chicago locations including one across from Wrigley Field.

 

The Greene will feature 10 restaurants and bars including BD's Mongolian Barbeque, Brio Tuscan Grille, Cafe Istanbul and The Cheesecake Factory.

 

Besides restaurants, the 72-acre lifestyle center will feature a movie theater, 100,000 square feet of office space, 150 residential units and 400,000 square feet of retail tenants.

I went to Springfield Saturday and drove around for a couple hours looking over the South Fountain, Old East, North/College Hill areas and downtown again, and all I ended up with are 3 pics of this...

 

 

 

A vintage Kmart remains next to the new facade of the strip center accross the street

 

675 is just amazing; you used to just have Fairfield Commons and Dayton Mall, but now you have Williamsburg Pike and this. Town and Country is doomed for sure!

 

Those pictures make Indian Ripple Road looks so strange to me.  I'm not used to seeing it without a bunch of trees next to it.

 

By the way, has anyone who's driven by lately noticed if there is some more land cleared immediately south of this site, right next to the highway?  I want to say I remember seeing such a thing, but I'm not exactly in a position to go double check right now.

 

P.S.

Williamsburg Pike

Wilmington Pike, you mean.

^Wilmington, right.

Town & Country is not doomed, since its market is different.  Unless there is a Trader Joe's, D. Clarks (or whatever its called now), a Damon's (unless that is gone lol!), and um...a Panera and Figlio at The Greene, Town & Country is fine.

a Damon's (unless that is gone lol!),

 

Gone.