In the Eye of the Beholder

Public, Designers at Odds On What's a Beautiful Building

 

 

By ALEX FRANGOS

February 7, 2007; Page B1

 

It's a question that has divided architects for centuries: What makes a great building? Can it be found in the formal columns of Thomas Jefferson's University of Virginia in Charlottesville, or the delicate glass walls of Ludwig Mies van der Rohe's Seagram Building in Manhattan, or the constantly changing mechanical skin of Thom Mayne's Caltrans building in Los Angeles?

 

For more information, click the below link.

 

 

Corrections & Amplifications

 

The U.S. Capitol is No. 6 on the AIA's list of most popular architecture and the Lincoln Memorial is No. 7. Camden Yards is No. 122. An earlier version of this article and a chart published with it had incorrectly switched the ranks of the Capitol and the Lincoln Memorial, and the article had incorrectly said Camden Yards was ranked No. 120. The above article and chart have been corrected.

 

FAVORITE ARCHITECTS

 

 

The American Institute of Architects survey reflects America's enduring love for Frank Lloyd Wright, whose buildings appear eight times on the list, more than any other. Richard Meier leads all living architects with five buildings.

 

Frank Lloyd Wright – 8

Henry Hobson Richardson – 6

Philip Johnson – 5

Richard Meier – 5

Skidmore, Owings & Merrill (Bruce Graham) – 5

Cass Gilbert – 3

Daniel Burnham – 3

Eero Saarinen – 3

Henry Janeway Hardenbergh – 3

Bertram Grosvenor Goodhue – 2

Frank Gehry – 2

John Portman – 2

John Russell Pope – 2

McKim, Mead, and White – 2

Michael Graves – 2

NBBJ – 2

Pei Cobb Freed & Partners (James Ingo Freed) – 2

Thomas Jefferson – 2

Wallace K. Harrison – 2

 

 

The Top 150 List

 

http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/info-poparch07-sort2.html

 

Of note, besides Paul Brown, Union Terminal was voted #44.

I like PBS a lot. Definitely a nice stadium to look at as you drive by. 

 

Of course this is all very subjective, but the list is so heavily tilted towards the big cities. It overlooks a lot of the beautiful old buildings in the midsize cities.

I find it interesting that no other city in OH, KY, IN had a bldg listed in the top 150 bldgs...Cincy had 2!!

 

*chants: we're #1, we're #1*

Looking through the top 150, there are some very suspect buildings. It takes the luster off of being mentioned in the list.  Cincy's two buildings are very deserving, though. 

^Oh, I totally agree!  I was just poking fun about the situation....however I do feel there are some other bldgs withing Ohio that are worthy of making the list.

As a member of the AIA, I submitted buildings for consideration as a response to the survey they mentioned and I received.  I submitted a number of local buildings - City Hall, Music Hall, Union Terminal, Plum Street Temple, St. Peter-in-Chains to make sure we had some local representation.  I also included some other favs not in Cincinnati - Trinity Church, Boston; Glessner House, Chicago; Allegheny County Courthouse, Pittsburgh; Cleveland Arcade, Cleveland.

 

I am puzzled by the inclusion of some (The Bellagio?) and the ones that I consider missing from the list.

Then there are buildings that are great because of those who inhabit them, not for the actual structure. Some may disagree, but I don't see Yankee Stadium as a great piece of architecture. Sure its interesting, but its not great. It may be the best place to place baseball, but that's because of the Yankees, their history and the fans.

Based on the current state of architecture/construction, it is hard to see credibility in a survey of today's architects.

 

Cincinnati's are both great structures however.

 

Ink!

 

Just because what you see in the current state of architecture and construction, it does NOT diminish the credibility of an architect to make an opinion on what constitutes good architecture.  We went to school to study architecture and design, have training in the practical field, been practicing in that field, etc, etc.  So much comes in to play on what a contemporary building ultimately is and becomes such as money first and foremost.  I worked on a CPS school.  Is it the best design in the world?  No.  But many things were factors in what it looks like.  It doesn't make me any less a person to submit my opinion.  In fact we are far better qualified than most.  Now I didn't agree with all those buildings either and why someone would list them is beyond me.

 

Please don't read to much in tone here, just making a point :) although I may sound harsh - I'm really not.

Uhhh...I think we all can agree that Planners are really the only ones who know what they're talking about...for anything!  :wink:

Uhhh...I think we all can agree that Planners are really the only ones who know what they're talking about...for anything!  :wink:

 

I think the 50's, 60's, 70's kind of ruined credibility for planners too! :lol:

 

But I have a feeling WE will bring it back!

Ink!

 

...

 

 

I know what you are saying and I'm sure you are right for a number of architects. Although everytime any amazing, expensive new building goes up anymore, it is crap. Everytime I walk through an architecture department and see student models, they look like crap. While I'm sure most of what is build today ends up that way because of cost and desires of the developers, I'm still not convinced that there isn't a school of architects who believe that the Steed Hammond Pauls or the Voorhis, Slone, Welsh, Crosslands or even the Frank Gentrys is good architecture, but in my non educated view, these uninspiring, undramatic buildings aren't worth more than whats going on inside. All through junior high and high school, I wanted to go into architecture, but I finally woke up and realized the state of the art today, and ran away from it. Plus, it didn't help that OSU's program was in that new marble zebra thingie.  :lol: This is also when I realized preservation was the only way to save our physical landscape, and thus my interest in that has exploded.

 

Same with the tone, I'm just talking casually.

 

I think the 50's, 60's, 70's kind of ruined credibility for planners

 

 

The 50s, 60s and 70s also ruined the credibility of architects!

^and city government, federal government, etc, etc....Lets just all agree that those were terrible times for cities, with many people to blame!

The survey doesn't say what the best buildings are - it says what people in general think are the best buildings.  Definitely can be a big difference!  But we should keep in mind that when architects and the public agree - say, in the Ascent - that it makes for a fantastic, and well-supported project!

 

The survey doesn't say what the best buildings are - it says what people in general think are the best buildings.  Definitely can be a big difference! 

 

How do you distinguish the two? Whos to say what the best buildings really are?

^you'll never have a survey of that states what the best buildings are.  Architects, while obviously the most knowledgeable, seem to be one step too close to the topic to have any real perspective on the effects of a building on the city as a whole.

No terminal Tower?

Keep in mind that what the AIA focuses on is not what most fans and observers notice. Petco Park is architecturally renowned but among baseball and ballpark circles it is a more or less average park. While the AIA may note a stadium for its impressive use of glass on an external facade, that really means nothing to fans who are looking for good sightlines, wide concourses and who are willing to sacrifice a lot of architectural creativity for functionality.

 

I think the 50's, 60's, 70's kind of ruined credibility for planners

 

 

The 50s, 60s and 70s also ruined the credibility of architects!

 

the 50s 60s and 70s ruined the united states of america.

^except for the civil rights movement, voting rights act, man on the moon, etc.

Well, as poorly as the 50s through 70s are viewed in terms of architecture, we now see some great international style buildings. While some of the skyscrapers and schools are quite ugly, that style did bridge well older building types and new technology and has allowed for postmodernism to take off. Keep in mind that a lot of cities' skylines are defined by buildings from that era. Chicago, for instance, is far more interesting with the Hancock and the Sears, but its 1960s boxy apartment buildings are at the same time one of the negative spots of the city.

^except for the civil rights movement, voting rights act, man on the moon, etc.

Nice save, lmao

Paul Brown Stadium could host 2026 World Cup game or games:

 

https://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/hamilton-county/cincinnati/cincinnati-still-in-the-running-to-host-2026-world-cup-match

You think it'd be worth it, though?

 

I was reading an article recently about how no one wants to host the Olympics anymore. It's too much of a headache and it ends up costing the cities more money than the revenue it brings in. They've been getting less and less bids for that event. In fact, I think for the latest one up for grabs, they only received bids from two cities and they were pretty obscure cities.

 

It certainly puts your city on the map but most people don't care about that. 

 

Perhaps the World Cup is a little different. I don't know. I'm not that big on sports.

You think it'd be worth it, though?

 

I was reading an article recently about how no one wants to host the Olympics anymore. It's too much of a headache and it ends up costing the cities more money than the revenue it brings in. They've been getting less and less bids for that event. In fact, I think for the latest one up for grabs, they only received bids from two cities and they were pretty obscure cities.

 

It certainly puts your city on the map but most people don't care about that. 

 

Perhaps the World Cup is a little different. I don't know. I'm not that big on sports.

 

The problem with the Olympics is that you basically need to build an entire village to support it.  Once the games are over, you suddenly have a vacant village and that obviously has a negative effect on the rest of city.  It's basically impossible to have a positive roi.

 

I'm not too familiar with what goes into the world cup, but I think Cincinnati is only going to be in one of the opening rounds, so there's not really any significant cost involved.

Right!

 

After I wrote that post, I was at work, realizing what the difference might be. For the Olympics, you're almost always required to build brand new, larger stadiums to accommodate the crowd. Those stadiums are essentially useless or unnecessary after the Olympics. They become abandoned. If Paul Brown Stadium is ideal for the World Cup, then there's no need to worry about that. They'd just be utilizing a stadium that currently exists, so that's the difference.

 

That would be really cool if Cincinnati gets it. Cincinnati has a lot of Soccer fans, for some reason.

60 2026 World Cup games will be played in the United States.  Cincinnati is listed as a likely host.

 

If Cincinnati hosts, we will get either four or five games over a 2-week period. 

Garth Brooks stadium tour coming to Paul Brown Stadium May 17, 2020:

https://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/hamilton-county/cincinnati/garth-brooks-is-coming-to-cincinnati

Might be the one and only sell out for 2020

As usual, Jason Williams is fooled by Cranley.  He bought the Reece's loyalty back in 2003 with the scandalous Anthem Demutualization, and of course Steve Reece is an epic scam artist in his own right.

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/politics/columnists/politics-extra/2020/02/21/cincinnati-bengals-alicia-reece-connie-pillich-aid-taxpayers/4799426002/

The Bengals, with the help of county tax dollars, have formally started crafting the renovation plans:

 

Hamilton County, Cincinnati Bengals hire firm to examine Paul Brown Stadium, potential upgrades 

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2020/09/14/county-bengals-tap-firm-to-examine-stadium.html

 

Hamilton County and the Cincinnati Bengals have hired a Los Angeles-based international architecture, design and planning firm to assess the condition of Paul Brown Stadium and make recommendations on maintenance and upgrades along with a new master plan for the site.

The concept-renovation plans they are crafting looks GREAT! Love the local touches such as creating a food hall based on Findlay Market. And a possible nightclub??? Interesting. I’m happy they are thinking big.

 

https://www.wcpo.com/bengals-paul-brown-stadium-renovations-scoreboard-nightclub-seating

We all know PBS is coming up on 25 years old, so it will need a renovation.  I'm not feeling the initial plans UNLESS they cost about as much as the stadium cost to build.  These are not $1 billion dollar renovation plans as presented. 

Not only did the Bengals sell the naming rights to Paul Brown Stadium - they also sold the naming rights to the practice field!  How much did Kettering Health dish out to get their name on the practice field?  $500?  Why would the name of the practice field ever be mentioned?

 

On 1/18/2023 at 5:18 PM, Lazarus said:

Not only did the Bengals sell the naming rights to Paul Brown Stadium - they also sold the naming rights to the practice field!  How much did Kettering Health dish out to get their name on the practice field?  $500?  Why would the name of the practice field ever be mentioned?

 

 

The Cavaliers sold the naming rights to theirs.    

 

On 1/18/2023 at 5:18 PM, Lazarus said:

Not only did the Bengals sell the naming rights to Paul Brown Stadium - they also sold the naming rights to the practice field!  How much did Kettering Health dish out to get their name on the practice field?  $500?  Why would the name of the practice field ever be mentioned?

 

When the bubble is up over the field, there is good visibility from the I-71/75 Brent Spence bridge- signage signage signage.

The indoor practice facility is different from the practice field. The bubble is sponsored by Integrity Express Logistics (IEL).

 

https://www.sportspromedia.com/news/cincinnati-bengals-iel-indoor-practice-facility-naming-rights-nfl/?zephr_sso_ott=W2aGwT

^In an interview I heard last night on the radio, Burrow claimed that he likes to practice in bad weather and they make it a point to rearrange a day's activities to to take advantage of rain, wind, etc.  

10 minutes ago, Lazarus said:

^In an interview I heard last night on the radio, Burrow claimed that he likes to practice in bad weather and they make it a point to rearrange a day's activities to to take advantage of rain, wind, etc.  

It wise for him to think and act that way. Cleveland, Buffalo, New England, Chicago, Green Bay, NYC, Pittsburgh, Seattle, Philly,  Denver are all open to the elements stadiums in colder climates, should always be prepared for the worst on GameDay. 

On 1/18/2023 at 5:18 PM, Lazarus said:

Not only did the Bengals sell the naming rights to Paul Brown Stadium - they also sold the naming rights to the practice field!  How much did Kettering Health dish out to get their name on the practice field?  $500?  Why would the name of the practice field ever be mentioned?

 

 

I mean, it is mentioned right there in the caption. And we're talking about it now. Seems to have worked well. Kettering Health is the official healthcare provider of the Bengals. I'm sure the practice field was included as a part of the overall sponsorship package and not sold off separately.

2 hours ago, DEPACincy said:

 

I mean, it is mentioned right there in the caption. And we're talking about it now. Seems to have worked well. 

 

The old practice facility, Spinney Field, was named after a local of significance, John Spinney.  Our convention center formerly honored the inventor of one of two polio vaccines, Albert Sabin.  

 

There was no money involved.  

 

Now every dumb thing is sold out to anonymous corporations.  

 

 

 

 

4 hours ago, Cygnus said:

The indoor practice facility is different from the practice field. The bubble is sponsored by Integrity Express Logistics (IEL).

 

https://www.sportspromedia.com/news/cincinnati-bengals-iel-indoor-practice-facility-naming-rights-nfl/?zephr_sso_ott=W2aGwT

What is interesting is how long Kettering health is going to be the official health care sponsor. IEL only has naming rights on the temporary bubble. When the permanent indoor facility is built I was told that the sponsor was going to be Mercy Health. 

On 1/18/2023 at 5:18 PM, Lazarus said:

Not only did the Bengals sell the naming rights to Paul Brown Stadium - they also sold the naming rights to the practice field!  How much did Kettering Health dish out to get their name on the practice field?  $500?  Why would the name of the practice field ever be mentioned?

 

I am sure it is not a heavy sponsorship, but remember, The Bengals have training camp down there. They have fans visit training camp and open practices. There is value to Kettering having their name on the field. There are potential game day shots of the practice field from the stadium and the Kettering logo is on TV for a few seconds.  On radio reports, they could mention they are reporting from the Kettering Health practice fields. I can see the value, just do not know how much it should be worth. 

It's simply ridiculous that ostensibly non-profit health care conglomerates spend so much money on advertising in their zero-sum competition with one-another. 

Just now, Lazarus said:

It's simply ridiculous that ostensibly non-profit health care conglomerates spend so much money on advertising in their zero-sum competition with one-another. 

 

Same for regional-monopoly utilities.

I drove on Mehring Way tonight for the first time in several months (certainly since the leaves fell off the trees) and noticed that the rows of trees that curve around the south side of the stadium are starting to get big.  They were transplanted 23 years ago and it looks like they're at the point where they're going to really start growing fast.  I remember that the similar row of street trees along Jefferson Ave. next to UC suddenly took off around 2010 and will be monsters by the 2030s.

 

Here are streetview images from 2014 and 2022. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bengals unveil $20 million in Paycor Stadium changes to improve fan experience

 

The Cincinnati Bengals have made a $20 million investment this offseason in changes at Paycor Stadium aimed at improving the fan experience.

 

“Our goal is to give our fans the best possible experience in the NFL,” Caroline Blackburn, Bengals senior manager of digital strategy, said Tuesday morning at a media event unveiling the changes. “We think we have one of those experiences, but we want to keep building onto it.”

 

The improvements include concessions, stadium appearance and video boards – all aimed at enhancing fans’ enjoyment of the game.

 

“Our hope is fans recognize it’s new, more energetic and fresh,” Blackburn said. “And we want them to feel that we heard them.”

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2023/07/25/bengals-20-million-paycor-stadium-improvements.html

 

Hamilton County will consider $39 million in Paycor Stadium upgrades, fixes

 

Hamilton County commissioners likely will vote this week on up to $39 million in upgrades and fixes to Paycor Stadium as they wait for a larger master plan for the facility and for lease extension talks with the Cincinnati Bengals to kick into high gear.

 

All three commissioners signaled their support for the plan, which could get a vote Thursday, Dec. 14. It includes items like extending the Elm Street side plaza to reduce congestion as fans enter the stadium. But Commissioner Alicia Reece continued her sharp criticism of the county meeting the team’s needs while slashing promised tax relief for property owners from the 1996 stadium tax.

 

Hamilton County Administrator Jeff Aluotto proposed carving out $39 million in upgrades and maintenance from a $494 million plan commissioners received in April 2022 so the county would not miss the 2024 construction season and start some work before the Bengals kick off in 2024-2025. It will require a new memorandum of understanding between the county and the team.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2023/12/12/paycor-stadium-upgrades-hamilton-county.html

 

^ I have always hated that entrance and was puzzled by the design many years ago. It takes forever to leave the game because it creates a chokepoint at that entrance. Some of it seems like the wall could have been removed in some areas as I remember a lot of people climbing over the wall to get out when instead of waiting in line to get to Elm. Even if they only extend it 10 feet on each side, it would make a huge difference. I hope they extend it much more than that though.