As someone who has been to a few Royals games in the last decade, I can say the traffic getting in and out is always a complete cluster. Getting from I-70 to your parking space takes a solid 45 minutes to an hour. Anyone claiming that the Truman Sports Complex is superior to The Banks as a sports destination needs their head examined.

Project Details coming today, but the official price tag is about 800 Million according to reports.

Threats and fears of the Austin/San Antonio Bengals incoming...

2 hours ago, 646empire said:

Project Details coming today, but the official price tag is about 800 Million according to reports.

Nevermind lol…. 1.2 Billion. I like it tho!!

 

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/politics/2024/09/17/paycor-stadium-renovations-whats-changing-how-much-will-it-cost/75172251007/

 

Edited September 17, 2024Sep 17 by 646empire

That seems super high, and at first I was thinking this was just a way to lobby for getting a new stadium built, but after looking through the images it appears that a lot of the cost is outside the actual stadium including a large new permanent indoor practice facility:

 

7 minutes ago, ucgrady said:

That seems super high, and at first I was thinking this was just a way to lobby for getting a new stadium built, but after looking through the images it appears that a lot of the cost is outside the actual stadium including a large new permanent indoor practice facility:

 

Yupp the price tag is including the practice facility/team HQ

Edited September 17, 2024Sep 17 by 646empire

At first I was thinking, all of those new giant outdoor screens have got to be very expensive and probably aren't necessary or worth the cost. Then I realized they will probably be showing giant Times Square style ads 24/7 outside of game days, and they're probably counting on that revenue to partially or fully pay for the screens.

1 minute ago, taestell said:

At first I was thinking, all of those new giant outdoor screens have got to be very expensive and probably aren't necessary or worth the cost. Then I realized they will probably be showing giant Times Square style ads 24/7 outside of game days, and they're probably counting on that revenue to partially or fully pay for the screens.

Similarly, it would be better to have taller buildings around BSB to help block noise but they want people on the bridge to see the stadium.

Architects unveil proposed $1.3B Paycor Stadium overhaul

 

Architects unveiled a $1.3 billion transformation of the Cincinnati Bengals' Paycor Stadium and the surrounding area, with the goal of using the stadium more outside of football season and adding more spaces for fans.

 

The vision, commissioned by the Bengals and the county, calls for moving Mehring Way to the south along the riverfront. That will allow the team’s offices, operations and indoor practice facility to move to a new building on part of the existing practice field and for the repurposing or addition of space inside the building totaling 500,000 square feet.

 

The proposal includes three new high-revenue club areas in the north end zone, the western side of the stadium and at the 50-yard line at the field level. MSA Sport, along with six other partners, produced the vision for the county and the Bengals.

 

The city of Cincinnati would have to approve the change to the street grid.

 

Commissioners are expected to discuss the reimagining at their Sept. 17 meeting. The Bengals declined comment in advance of that session.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2024/09/17/bengals-paycor-stadium-renovations-revealed-cost.html

 

Wow!

Two big things that jump right out to me:

• They are really pushing Mehring Way south...
• Completely capping the north plaza to the level(?) of Second Street.

I'll be curious to see how they plan to treat the overall site in terms of elevation and anticipating spring floods. Also how they will need to adjust to the BSB induced change in ramps.

looks like additional stands will block that lone uninspired building that's always framed in that notch on television. I am all for that, in particular.

I'm a big Bengals fan, but I have a hard time getting behind the idea of taxpayers paying for the team to have an HQ and practice facility, especially if that practice facility is on prime real estate. The Bengals should be required to build their own facility, and they can put it in the burbs like FC Cincinnati did.

2 hours ago, ucgrady said:

Threats and fears of the Austin/San Antonio Bengals incoming...

 

The Modell Law hasn't been tried in court and I don't think the Bengals are going to be the team to have that fight. The Reds on the other hand...

8 minutes ago, JaceTheAce41 said:

 

The Modell Law hasn't been tried in court and I don't think the Bengals are going to be the team to have that fight. The Reds on the other hand...

The Reds/ MLB is not leaving Cincinnati period let’s just not even go there please.

Edited September 17, 2024Sep 17 by 646empire

Lol at the Reds ever leaving Cincy.  Not to mention are there even any cities that actually want an MLB team?  It's a dying regional sport.  On the other hand cities would be fighting over a potential NFL franchise. 

Oh jeez, are you trying to say MLB fans say the letter "A" funny? 😆

2 hours ago, Cincy513 said:

Lol at the Reds ever leaving Cincy.  Not to mention are there even any cities that actually want an MLB team?  It's a dying regional sport.  On the other hand cities would be fighting over a potential NFL franchise. 

Reds’ lease is up in 9 years and they have cheap owners who have really let a lot of stuff go to crap with the club and ballpark. Plus they’re being run by a guy who has mentioned selling the team and moving.

 

MLB isn’t dead yet and revenues are still high. Several cities are trying to get expansion teams right now and I wouldn’t be surprised to see cities that miss out on expansion (Portland, Charlotte, Austin, maybe Salt Lake) try and poach a team. 

For $1.3 Billion it should include my concept for an aerial gondola lift at the Banks... 

 

 

38 minutes ago, JaceTheAce41 said:

Reds’ lease is up in 9 years and they have cheap owners who have really let a lot of stuff go to crap with the club and ballpark. Plus they’re being run by a guy who has mentioned selling the team and moving.

 

MLB isn’t dead yet and revenues are still high. Several cities are trying to get expansion teams right now and I wouldn’t be surprised to see cities that miss out on expansion (Portland, Charlotte, Austin, maybe Salt Lake) try and poach a team. 

There are a ton of reasons why the reds and MLB isn’t leaving Cincinnati. Also the reds have done a pretty good job taking care of Great American Ballpark I was just recently there and was impressed at its condition. Agree to disagree, this isn’t the Reds thread it’s about Paycor Stadium.

I was hoping to see a team hotel being built, ideally with the practice facility. Maybe they'll build on empty banks lot...seems like an easy way to have extra revenue create an official team hotel. 

Did they release a plan view of the proposed changes?   It is not clear from the renderings how the street grid will change west of the stadium.   The views do not 

appear to include the pending changes from the new I-75 work. 

1 hour ago, GHOST TRACKS said:

Did they release a plan view of the proposed changes?   It is not clear from the renderings how the street grid will change west of the stadium.   The views do not 

appear to include the pending changes from the new I-75 work. 

The Enquirer uploaded the full presentation.

This is the one that is probably the closest to what you are asking for:

18 hours ago, taestell said:

At first I was thinking, all of those new giant outdoor screens have got to be very expensive and probably aren't necessary or worth the cost. Then I realized they will probably be showing giant Times Square style ads 24/7 outside of game days, and they're probably counting on that revenue to partially or fully pay for the screens.

 

Did a case study in college 12+ years ago around this and how the west side of the Stadium faces one of the busiest stretches of interstate in the region and there was no visible advertisements.

 

 

Overall this plan is fine. I was hoping that for the $1.2b price, it would be more gameday enhancements for the average fan instead of just a few premium spaces. It seems like a majority of the cost is going towards things outside of the stadium (and mostly for the team). Will be interesting to see where it goes from here and how much it evolves during the negotiations. 

Bengals, Hamilton County commissioners react to $1.3B Paycor Stadium overhaul proposal

 

Both the Cincinnati Bengals and Hamilton County commissioners had tepid reactions to a $1.3 billion proposal released Sept. 17 to transform Paycor Stadium crafted by architects hired by the team and the county.

 

In a statement, the team said it would review the proposal and emphasized the need for “immediate repairs and improvements to remain competitive now and into the future.”

 

“The Bengals thank Hamilton County for sharing these concepts and designs that explore the future of Paycor Stadium. While concepts about transforming Paycor Stadium can be explored, the community is fortunate to have a strong, existing facility,” the statement said, adding that the team “believes an approach of responsible investing in this great public asset can serve the community for NFL games, major concerts and other events that bring vibrancy to The Banks, Greater Cincinnati and the entire region for years to come.”

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2024/09/18/bengals-react-county-plan-paycor-stadium-overhaul.html

 

Alicia Reece says it perfectly:

  

Quote

“The taxpayers, we’re tapped out. We’re exhausted. It can’t be we own it when the bills come due, then it’s privately owned when the revenue comes in.”

 

 

From what I saw on the news last night it sounded like the county didn't want it to be funded by the taxpayers. I'm not sure what their plan is however.

Just now, taestell said:

Alicia Reece says it perfectly:

 

Sometimes it’s all about the message and not the messenger. Couldn’t agree more.

The Banks is a mess that’s never been fully or properly developed, the Bengals (despite getting a PR boost in recent years) are anything but a community partner. They’ve had everything handed to them by voters and taxpayers for years only to do what with that?

 

F**k ‘em.

When UC added the new West Pavilion structure to Nippert in 2015, we built in to the suite/premium agreements that part of the money goes back to help pay the project. There needs to be thinking along those lines for this project.

Keep in mind that the Bengals have the sole ability to extend the current lease to five additional 2-year terms at the current lease terms. Because the current lease is so beneficial to the team, they are likely in no rush to get a new lease and finalize plans for a renovation. This gives them another 10 years to figure out their plan.

 

They can use this time to threaten to leave and extract more from the County. The County will not levy a new sales tax for the renovations because voters will deny it. They might still add some other tax that doesn't go to voters like a hotel tax, for instance. They also might be able to keep the money flowing from the sales tax that was already approved.

 

The Bengals have until June 30, 2025 to extend the current lease from June 30, 2026 to 2028. That process repeats every two years. I fully expect them to exercise most of those two year extensions.

It's kind of insane that voters passed the sales tax increase in '96 "to pay for the new stadiums" but it had no end date. I tried a few years back to find the actual ballot language to see what voters approved, but couldn't find it. I also tried to find any statements from the county commissioners at the time saying that the tax would go away once the stadium debt was paid off, but couldn't find that either.

 

Compare that to the Union Terminal sales tax, which was very explicitly a five year temporary sales tax to pay for the building's restoration, and then went away.

This all sounds like a Claremont County/Warren County/Butler County problem to me. Take over an old mall site like Eastgate.

Excuse my terrible Photoshop skills but this is somewhat to scale. 

32 minutes ago, taestell said:

It's kind of insane that voters passed the sales tax increase in '96 "to pay for the new stadiums" but it had no end date.

 

The commissioners enacted the tax in early 1996 without any sort of public input or vote. The public vote ended up happening because of a signature campaign led by Tom Luken, Tim Mara, and MY DAD that placed it on the spring 1996 ballot. The problem is that The Bengals had already signed a contract with the county that guaranteed that the stadium would be ready for the 2000 season.  The citizen-led ballot issue failed at the polls but delayed design and construction by 4-5 months. This was enough to put the entirety of construction on an accelerated schedule which meant tons of overtime and change orders that caused construction costs to balloon by about $50 million (back when $50 million was a lot of money).  Simultaneously, there was a minor recession that threw off the anticipated growth of sales tax revenues.  The cash shortage meant The Banks' road and garage infrastructure should have gotten off the ground when Great American Ballpark was u/c but instead it was done in phases over the ensuing 10+ years. 

 

 

 

A few thoughts/questions:

• One rendering shows the "team store" as a single story structure, but another rendering shows a ~14-story tower. Anybody which is the actual proposal? I would definitely prefer to see something with height there. I'm fine with ground level Bengals store, but County should be able to build on top of it.
• The County should negotiate so that the practice fields and indoor training facility are available for the County to organize events on as many days/year as possible. I used to work with a direct view of the practice fields and it pained me how the fields sat unused so much of the year. It would be great to see regional sports tournaments utilize the fields and indoor facility as much as possible, both to maximize revenue for the County and activate the space as frequently as possible.
• Does anybody know what power the Bengals have over the development of the remaining lots at The Banks? I'd like to see the County take advantage of this process to negotiate so that future development won't have any vetoes from the Bengals over height or any other aspects of future proposals. 

I think there is potential for funding for the relocation of Merhing Way and the repurposing of Central Ave into a pedestrian zone to be taken from the Southern Railroad Trust. Someone is going to float the idea and try to secure it for this and possibly more. 

 

 

https://www.fieldofschemes.com/2024/09/18/21874/hamilton-county-proposes-1-2b-bengals-stadium-renovation-with-no-clue-wholl-pay-for-it/#comment-64883

 

always a fun read

What's the advantage of moving Mehring Way north? Their proposed site plan wouldn't leave enough space between Mehring Way and the river for any kind of usable space which seems like a real missed opportunity to continue Smale along the riverfront. I'm not really sure what the "Bengals Promenade" is supposed to be...but seems like it'd be way better if that Promenade were directly along the riverfront (as part of the extended park system).

 

You can easily fit two practice fields on the existing Hilltop concrete site, south of Mehring Way, and the indoor training facility can fit north of Mehring Way (where the existing practice fields are). And that would leave the existing surface parking lot directly south of the stadium available for park (or parking). I just don't see what's gained by moving Mehring Way south. 

 

 

You can see in the proposed site plan the existing path of Mehring Way (shown in a light dashed line):

Who wants grass parking, when you can have water parking! Copy off Baylor and build the damn Smale marina:

38 minutes ago, jwulsin said:

What's the advantage of moving Mehring Way north? Their proposed site plan wouldn't leave enough space between Mehring Way and the river for any kind of usable space which seems like a real missed opportunity to continue Smale along the riverfront. I'm not really sure what the "Bengals Promenade" is supposed to be...but seems like it'd be way better if that Promenade were directly along the riverfront (as part of the extended park system).

 

You can easily fit two practice fields on the existing Hilltop concrete site, south of Mehring Way, and the indoor training facility can fit north of Mehring Way (where the existing practice fields are). And that would leave the existing surface parking lot directly south of the stadium available for park (or parking). I just don't see what's gained by moving Mehring Way south. 

 

 

You can see in the proposed site plan the existing path of Mehring Way (shown in a light dashed line):

They don't want their players having to cross a street to walk to practice.  This way it's completely sealed off from outside traffic like the current fields.  Despite the above request there's little chance the indoor facility or practice fields will be used for anything besides Bengals practice. 

Edited September 18, 2024Sep 18 by Cincy513

26 minutes ago, Cincy513 said:

They don't want their players having to cross a street to walk to practice.

That explains why they are pedestrianizing Central Ave, but it doesn't explain moving Mehring way closer to the river. I agree that moving it closer to the river is not ideal for Smale park or extending the Ohio River Trail which sits South of Mehring and could/should be extended along with the "Bengal Promenade"

My guess is they think they need to provide a larger footprint for the Bengals practice facility + two practice fields. 

I love that the latest grift is parking lots (despite the already abundant amount of parking all around the stadium and in the massive garage) designated as "greenspace."

The Brown family better hope that Burrow starts producing. 

1 hour ago, tonyt3524 said:

My guess is they think they need to provide a larger footprint for the Bengals practice facility + two practice fields. 

This + gameday flow

7 minutes ago, ucgrady said:

That explains why they are pedestrianizing Central Ave, but it doesn't explain moving Mehring way closer to the river. I agree that moving it closer to the river is not ideal for Smale park or extending the Ohio River Trail which sits South of Mehring and could/should be extended along with the "Bengal Promenade"

Right now the players have to walk from the stadium where their lockers are and cross Central to get the the practice fields.  If this update happened the players would have all their stuff like locker rooms, weight room, training, ect. in the new team facility and walk right outside to their practice fields.  In your mockup if they didn't move Mehring they would have to cross it to get from the facility to the fields.  I'm guessing that is why they want it moved, so their area is all contiguous space.  

16 hours ago, Cincy513 said:

Right now the players have to walk from the stadium where their lockers are and cross Central to get the the practice fields.  If this update happened the players would have all their stuff like locker rooms, weight room, training, ect. in the new team facility and walk right outside to their practice fields.  In your mockup if they didn't move Mehring they would have to cross it to get from the facility to the fields.  I'm guessing that is why they want it moved, so their area is all contiguous space.  

 

UC will be doing something similar when the new practice facility coming online. The current locker room will become just the "gameday locker room" and most of their time will be spent in the new facility. Have to think the Bengals will do the same.

Edited September 19, 2024Sep 19 by tonyt3524

20 hours ago, Cincy513 said:

Right now the players have to walk from the stadium where their lockers are and cross Central to get the the practice fields.  If this update happened the players would have all their stuff like locker rooms, weight room, training, ect. in the new team facility and walk right outside to their practice fields. 

 

Is there any reason the city couldn't/shouldn't just eliminate Mehring Way between the Brent Spence Bridge and Central Avenue? Just have Mehring Way curve around the stadium and turn into Central Avenue. With Hilltop Concrete moving I don't see a need to have a street there.

2 hours ago, taestell said:

 

Is there any reason the city couldn't/shouldn't just eliminate Mehring Way between the Brent Spence Bridge and Central Avenue? Just have Mehring Way curve around the stadium and turn into Central Avenue. With Hilltop Concrete moving I don't see a need to have a street there.

Central Avenue and Mehring Way, east of their intersection, carries US-52. I'm wondering if they will reroute US-52 along the new Mehring Way west to the junction with 6th? Really they should have it rerouted out of the The Banks altogether, maybe up Eggleston or 2nd/3rd? If possible to reroute it, I would think it's better to just have Mehring Way be bisected by the planned grass parking lot, as like you said, there's no apparent need for through traffic.

If Pete Rose Way / Mehirng and 2nd could somehow come together this wouldn't be an issue, but because of 3rd being a one way going West and all the other streets being above you, if you close this section of Mehring there would be no eastbound connection from one side of the riverfront to the other.  

Tons of game and event traffic from the west side uses Mehring Way from its exit off the Sixth St. Expressway to the Banks garages:

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0992197,-84.5365394,3a,75y,124.1h,74.97t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sC9-rm4Ei5hJ7sO_ZlzE1Pg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D15.02641285649942%26panoid%3DC9-rm4Ei5hJ7sO_ZlzE1Pg%26yaw%3D124.09821766824753!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205410&entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MDkxNi4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.095961,-84.5096899,3a,75y,322.01h,85.01t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sal8ChFPFwksBda_RVhgBig!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D4.988023945416714%26panoid%3Dal8ChFPFwksBda_RVhgBig%26yaw%3D322.0121489402714!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205410&entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MDkxNi4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0956828,-84.5117708,3a,75y,306.23h,89.29t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sdIaZ9Y8K_zR9ZFKuDzu-lg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D0.7054417277395117%26panoid%3DdIaZ9Y8K_zR9ZFKuDzu-lg%26yaw%3D306.22795118768335!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205410&entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MDkxNi4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

Also, Mehring Way seems to be a key connector to the west side as it eventually loops back around to the Sixth Street Expressway. Heading back to NKY after Reds/Bengals it's a great way to avoid traffic by following it to the Freeman Avenue entrance ramp for EB 6SXway that feeds into SB I75.

 

Freeman to EB 6SXw

 

 

Edited September 20, 2024Sep 20 by Rabbit Hash