October 17, 2024Oct 17 50 minutes ago, Cincy513 said: Everyone knows the Brown family aren't going to pay for a new or renovated stadium by themselves. How is a suburb county going to get the needed hundreds of millions of dollars? Hamilton county has the stadium tax that has no sunshine clause, so it will continue to be used to pay for these type of things. This is why I don't see any way the stadium ever leaves for a new county. Cool. Move it to an abandoned mall or an office park in Blue Ash and tell Mike Brown to shove it when it comes to a practice facility. We don't have rail transit partially because of the Bengals and their terrible stadium deal. 54 minutes ago, tonyt3524 said: So probably double-digit events which would be significant in a 65k+ venue. Some of those can be replicated in other states and wouldn't be taken away from Lucas Oil (OHSAA Football, Motorcross, etc) Cincinnati could probably get a Final Four every 10 years or so like Indy. Columbus doesn't have a domed venue so OHSAA football championships could be shared between Cincy and whatever suburb Cleveland builds their indoor stadium in. NCAA regionals finals would maybe come to Cincinnati but I guarantee a new arena and we could steal the First Four and 1st and 2nd rounds from Dayton. Whoever UD bribed at the NCAA for them to get exclusive rights to the First Four in their dump must be driving a Bentley.
October 17, 2024Oct 17 36 minutes ago, JaceTheAce41 said: Cincinnati could probably get a Final Four every 10 years or so like Indy. Columbus doesn't have a domed venue so OHSAA football championships could be shared between Cincy and whatever suburb Cleveland builds their indoor stadium in. NCAA regionals finals would maybe come to Cincinnati but I guarantee a new arena and we could steal the First Four and 1st and 2nd rounds from Dayton. Whoever UD bribed at the NCAA for them to get exclusive rights to the First Four in their dump must be driving a Bentley. They did renovate Dayton's arena in the last 5 years. I don't think the First Four will leave Dayton, that fanbase loves their basketball and you're guaranteeing a sellout for those games regardless of opponent. You could also have the possibility of a bowl game as well.
October 17, 2024Oct 17 Author 41 minutes ago, JaceTheAce41 said: Columbus doesn't have a domed venue so OHSAA football championships could be shared between Cincy and whatever suburb Cleveland builds their indoor stadium in. That'll never happen. That's like the Cincinnati Music Fest moving to Ohio Stadium since it's a bigger venue. Neither will happen. "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
October 17, 2024Oct 17 OHSAA has moved the football championships from Crew Stadium to Ohio Stadium to the HoF stadium in Canton. I could see them moving it again. They move the volleyball championships from time to time too. Basketball has stayed in Cbus to my knowledge.
October 17, 2024Oct 17 8 minutes ago, tonyt3524 said: They did renovate Dayton's arena in the last 5 years. I don't think the First Four will leave Dayton, that fanbase loves their basketball and you're guaranteeing a sellout for those games regardless of opponent. They did but it was cosmetic for the fans. It still is a tiny arena and Cincinnati is right in the middle of a basketball hotbed too.
October 17, 2024Oct 17 On a related note... NFL owners approve Jacksonville's $1.4 billion 'stadium of the future' set to open in 2028 mark long Tue, Oct 15, 2024, 2:33 PM PDT·3 min read NFL owners unanimously approved Jacksonville's $1.4 billion “stadium of the future” Tuesday, a decision that should keep the Jaguars in one of the league's smallest markets for at least another 30 years. With the Jags (1-5) getting ready to play the second of back-to-back games in London, NFL owners essentially ended decades of speculation about the franchise being a potential relocation candidate. “Actions speak louder than words,” owner Shad Khan said. “And I think we're going to have some real action.” MORE
October 17, 2024Oct 17 I am very skeptical that the Bengals want a dome. It seems even the expanded practice facility proposal was driven by the county master plan with little to no input from the team.
October 17, 2024Oct 17 13 minutes ago, westcoast323 said: I am very skeptical that the Bengals want a dome. It seems even the expanded practice facility proposal was driven by the county master plan with little to no input from the team. The Bengals did have input on the proposal.
October 17, 2024Oct 17 Just thinking about maybe its better to consider more of a building in a box...or any shape that's feasible. I would imagine building a giant atrium/enclosure whatever around and over the stadium would be cheaper than trying to integrate it into the existing stadium itself.
October 17, 2024Oct 17 1 hour ago, The_Cincinnati_Kid said: On a related note... NFL owners approve Jacksonville's $1.4 billion 'stadium of the future' set to open in 2028 mark long Tue, Oct 15, 2024, 2:33 PM PDT·3 min read NFL owners unanimously approved Jacksonville's $1.4 billion “stadium of the future” Tuesday, a decision that should keep the Jaguars in one of the league's smallest markets for at least another 30 years. With the Jags (1-5) getting ready to play the second of back-to-back games in London, NFL owners essentially ended decades of speculation about the franchise being a potential relocation candidate. “Actions speak louder than words,” owner Shad Khan said. “And I think we're going to have some real action.” MORE So 1.4 billion dollars to do a full renovation and add a roof, but still technically be 'open air' since it's in Florida. If Cincy wanted to fully enclose ours they would need to add HVAC cost to that $1.4 billion. It also mentions in the article that the city and team are splitting the cost of new construction $625 million each, with an additional cost from the city for deferred maintenance so it ends up being 55/45. Compared to what some cities and states are giving up this isn't a bad deal.
October 17, 2024Oct 17 speaking of stadium locations. There has to be something in the NFL bylaws that says Cleveland isn't allowed to play home games indoors.
October 18, 2024Oct 18 14 hours ago, GCrites said: So the AFC/NFC halftime shows would be like, Creed If they play both on the same day, you could have Garth Brooks play the afternoon game and Chris Gaines the night game. But seriously, the conference championship event could become bigger than the Super Bowl itself, in the way that the first round of the BCS playoffs were bigger than the championship, and the opening weekend of the NCAA Tourney is bigger than the finals. Edited October 18, 2024Oct 18 by Lazarus
October 18, 2024Oct 18 13 hours ago, JaceTheAce41 said: Having a pro football stadium on prime real estate is a huge waste of space and money. A flood plain is not prime real estate. Everything either needs to be a)elevated at great expense (i.e. The Banks, Riverfront Coliseum) or b)have a built-in flood wall (Riverfront Stadium, Paul Brown Stadium, Great American Ballpark, old Fort Washington Way, new Fort Washington Way).
October 18, 2024Oct 18 The core of engineers have really did a great job with building locks and dams upstream to prevent 80 foot floods like in the past.
October 18, 2024Oct 18 12 hours ago, Lazarus said: A flood plain is not prime real estate. Everything either needs to be a)elevated at great expense (i.e. The Banks, Riverfront Coliseum) or b)have a built-in flood wall (Riverfront Stadium, Paul Brown Stadium, Great American Ballpark, old Fort Washington Way, new Fort Washington Way). I'm pretty sure it's impossible to build them on top of parking garages so that when it floods, nothing gets damaged. Maybe there's a federal law preventing that from happening. The Banks, Adams Place, One Lytle Place are all figments of my imagination. No one would ever want to live right on the river.
October 18, 2024Oct 18 Maybe the Bengals can follow suit. Plenty of unused office parks in Blue Ash. https://www.cleveland19.com/2024/10/17/its-official-cleveland-browns-moving-brook-park/
October 29, 2024Oct 29 1 Billion dollars for just the dome itself not including renovations (a truly staggering amount). Not happening. https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/politics/2024/10/29/what-would-a-dome-on-paycor-stadium-cost/75917088007/ Edited October 29, 2024Oct 29 by 646empire
October 29, 2024Oct 29 Author I'm more concerned at what they did to Carew Tower in the second rendering. "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
October 29, 2024Oct 29 37 minutes ago, ColDayMan said: I'm more concerned at what they did to Carew Tower in the second rendering. It looks like a new building S/SW of the Carew Tower, you can kind of see the Carew Tower outline if you look closely. Looks like they added a few other buildings around downtown as well!
October 30, 2024Oct 30 Author Cost to enclose Paycor Stadium expected to run $900 million to $1 billion It would cost $900 million to $1 billion to enclose Paycor Stadium, according to studies commissioned by Hamilton County, a price that two county commissioners declared was far too expensive given the potential other renovation expenses other examinations have produced. Commissioner Denise Driehaus said after a Tuesday, Oct. 29, presentation the study would “close the chapter” on any discussion of a dome. “I have long held the opinion that we can’t afford a dome,” Driehaus said. “From what I’ve heard, we just can’t afford it.” Commissioner Stephanie Summerow Dumas concurred. "It comes down to dollars and cents for me," Dumas said, saying the numbers "are obviously to me cost-prohibitive. It's simple for me. For me, forget about a dome." More below: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2024/10/29/paycor-stadium-dome-hamilton-county-bengals.html "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
October 30, 2024Oct 30 Phase 1: Propose an asinine plan to spend $1 billion on a practice facility, basically Phase 2: Have the county explore an impractical (yet cool-looking) dome plan Phase 3: Just buy an office park in Blue Ash and build a Stadium Village like Cleveland or leave Hamilton County altogether. Phase 3a: Sell to another owner and become the Toronto/Austin/San Antonio/London Bengals Also, where would the Bengals play while a dome is being constructed? You're looking at season at TQL or Nippert at least. Edited October 30, 2024Oct 30 by JaceTheAce41
October 30, 2024Oct 30 People have brought up a dome thousands of times. It seems reasonable that someone in government would take a look at how much that would cost.
October 30, 2024Oct 30 I think the exposure would be well worth the expense. Heck Seattle spends 14 billion on it's highways.
October 30, 2024Oct 30 If you're going to spend a billion dollars, just build a new domed stadium from scratch somewhere else and tell Mike Brown to build his own damn practice facilty.
October 30, 2024Oct 30 I'm glad they looked into it. We obviously knew this was never going to happen. Now let's get back to practical renovations.
October 30, 2024Oct 30 1. The Bengals were set to completely renovate ALL the suites and club level areas this coming offseason, but backed out at the last second and have postponed it for at least two years. This makes me think they had the plans in the works for a few years but have been advised to go bigger, which leads to: 2. Proposing a dome and having the word "billion" thrown into the news is a classic move, most recently accomplished by the Tennessee Titans. I don't see how our city will stomach this, but I believe we're headed in a similar direction where they just said it was essentially cheaper in the long run to start from scratch. The Bengals were talking about vacating and/or changing the layout of the streets west of the stadium, but I'm not sure they can cram in a new build on that side. The Titans have plenty of room to do it:
October 30, 2024Oct 30 46 minutes ago, nicker66 said: but I'm not sure they can cram in a new build on that side. It would be a tight squeeze but they could make it work, especially if there was selective demolition for a year or two like when they were building Great American Park and a section was removed from Riverfront to accommodate. It would certainly open up more developable land at the Banks, but considering that section isn't finished in the original plan I'm not sure how much of an incentive that even is.
October 30, 2024Oct 30 This is all crazy talk. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the current stadium and virtually nothing to be gained by building a dome next-door or 5+ miles out. Does anyone here even remember that time when the Superbowl was in Indianapolis? Wow, it really put Indy on the map.
October 30, 2024Oct 30 4 minutes ago, Lazarus said: This is all crazy talk. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the current stadium and virtually nothing to be gained by building a dome next-door or 5+ miles out. Does anyone here even remember that time when the Superbowl was in Indianapolis? Wow, it really put Indy on the map. Well they've now hosted a CFP National Championship, NBA All-Star game, US Olympic Trials, B1G FB, MBB & WBB Tournaments and Final Fours. Mostly due in part to the enhancements and success of the 2012 Super Bowl.
October 30, 2024Oct 30 3 minutes ago, tonyt3524 said: Well they've now hosted a CFP National Championship, NBA All-Star game, US Olympic Trials, B1G FB, MBB & WBB Tournaments and Final Fours. Mostly due in part to the enhancements and success of the 2012 Super Bowl. And that's just sporting events. The stadium hosts all kinds of concerts and other entertainment events throughout the year. It's been an incredible investment for the city/state. Indy has become a go-to city for big time events largely because of the stadium. Without that, Indy would hardly be known for anything other than a place that has a car race once a year and is obsessed with high school basketball.
October 30, 2024Oct 30 the current tax is not enough to pay for a dome/new stadium with a dome. The Hamilton County residents will not approve a new tax. Unless Mike Brown decides to spend significant money from his personal fortunes, we aren't getting a dome. It's time to move on. ETA: Most of Mike Browns net worth is tied up in ownership of the Bengals. He would likely have to sell off major shares of the team in order to finance that. He isn't going to do that.
October 30, 2024Oct 30 I was wondering if tif funds could be used for the dome. It is infrastructure and would be paid for by future tax income increases. I would much rather municipal dollars be spent on this than rerouting streets. Edited October 30, 2024Oct 30 by CincyIntheKnow
October 30, 2024Oct 30 The Downtown/OTR West Tif district has like $10m in it. A dome is not happening.
October 30, 2024Oct 30 FWIW, there's a cap on county sales tax in state law at 2.25%. Hamilton County is at 2.05% so there isn't much room there. Even if that is enough bonding capacity to do this, I'd think the power brokers wouldn't want to exhaust the last sliver of room in the county's budget. I guess the state could change the law, but that would still pull Hamilton County in front of Cuyahoga County as the highest sales tax in the state which just makes it a harder sell to voters. The outer counties have plenty of room for sales tax growth but you wouldn't think that appetite exists there. Only one way to find out...
October 30, 2024Oct 30 31 minutes ago, Dev said: FWIW, there's a cap on county sales tax in state law at 2.25%. Hamilton County is at 2.05% so there isn't much room there. Even if that is enough bonding capacity to do this, I'd think the power brokers wouldn't want to exhaust the last sliver of room in the county's budget. I guess the state could change the law, but that would still pull Hamilton County in front of Cuyahoga County as the highest sales tax in the state which just makes it a harder sell to voters. The outer counties have plenty of room for sales tax growth but you wouldn't think that appetite exists there. Only one way to find out... Unlike the folks in Cleveland I don’t think the Cincy public would mind if the Bengals moved to a new suburban stadium if the bengals and that county/community pay for it. But unlike the browns I don’t think the Bengals want to be in suburbs. Edited October 30, 2024Oct 30 by 646empire
October 30, 2024Oct 30 2 hours ago, cbussoccer said: And that's just sporting events. The stadium hosts all kinds of concerts and other entertainment events throughout the year. It's been an incredible investment for the city/state. Indy has become a go-to city for big time events largely because of the stadium. Without that, Indy would hardly be known for anything other than a place that has a car race once a year and is obsessed with high school basketball. I would caveat that Indy has seen those levels of events due to more than just the stadium. 1. They have a top-tier convention center 2. They got a magnificent convention center hotel to compliment it 3. The NCAA is HQ'd in Indy 4. Lucas Oil Stadium It's a mixture of a lot of things, but we don't have the convention center or convention center hotel to compliment a domed stadium.
October 30, 2024Oct 30 We will have the new convention center and hotel soonish. But there still isn't going to be a dome.
October 30, 2024Oct 30 4 minutes ago, Cincy513 said: We will have the new convention center and hotel soonish. But there still isn't going to be a dome. We will more than likely have a new arena adjacent and continuous to the convention center as a result of the I-75 rework. So the dome over paycor may not be critical.
October 31, 2024Oct 31 10 hours ago, tonyt3524 said: Well they've now hosted a CFP National Championship, NBA All-Star game, US Olympic Trials, B1G FB, MBB & WBB Tournaments and Final Fours. Mostly due in part to the enhancements and success of the 2012 Super Bowl. Nashville doesn't have a dome and it's had way, way, way more non-NFL events in its crappy Nissan Stadium + a general rise in tourism since 2012.
October 31, 2024Oct 31 8 hours ago, 646empire said: Unlike the folks in Cleveland I don’t think the Cincy public would mind if the Bengals moved to a new suburban stadium Um, were you here back in 1996? Keeping the Reds and Bengals downtown was paramount. I suspect that the real reason we see this anti-downtown attitude here and elsewhere online is that the soccer fans are endlessly irritated that The Bengals and the NFL are 10X more popular than MLS. Somehow it was super-important for FC Cincinnati to be next to downtown but not The Bengals?
October 31, 2024Oct 31 8 hours ago, Lazarus said: I suspect that the real reason we see this anti-downtown attitude here and elsewhere online is that the soccer fans are endlessly irritated that The Bengals and the NFL are 10X more popular than MLS. Somehow it was super-important for FC Cincinnati to be next to downtown but not The Bengals? It has nothing to do with the FC discourse. By the end of the ridiculous FC stadium saga, I don't think there were many that were even advocating for the WE spot. But the city/county also (relatively) did not kick in that much money. The anti-downtown attitude is because the NFL stadium will be paid for by tax-payers and we don't want to increase the Sales Tax that already pays for it, just because the Bengals want it downtown. There are also only 8-10 NFL home games a year, which is not enough activation to be worthy of downtown real estate. MLS is 18+. Edited October 31, 2024Oct 31 by 10albersa
October 31, 2024Oct 31 Team keep all the sports stadiums downtown. We haven't even finished the banks in 20+ years, not to mention all the surface parking lots in downtown. Some of you are clueless if you think the Bengals moving will magically turn the stadium area into further development. There is and always has been plenty of "prime" downtown areas for development and yet they've sat empty for decades. The only thing that would happen if the Bengals moved is further kill downtown bars and restaurants.
October 31, 2024Oct 31 8 hours ago, Lazarus said: I suspect that the real reason we see this anti-downtown attitude here and elsewhere online is that the soccer fans are endlessly irritated that The Bengals and the NFL are 10X more popular than MLS. You should try going to a game and having fun sometime.
October 31, 2024Oct 31 I'm not advocating for a move outside of downtown, I was responding to the ridiculous accusation that armies of online FC fans are pushing for this. I love that our stadiums are there. But I fully understand the sentiment of not wanting to write another blank check, and I don't think the voters would approve of an increase anyway. It'll be up to the Bengals as to whether they can live with our current funding system. Otherwise, they can shove it. Edited October 31, 2024Oct 31 by 10albersa
October 31, 2024Oct 31 9 hours ago, Lazarus said: Um, were you here back in 1996? Keeping the Reds and Bengals downtown was paramount. My point still stands. This ain’t 1996, it’s 2024. Things can change over 30 YEARS! lol Edited October 31, 2024Oct 31 by 646empire
October 31, 2024Oct 31 9 hours ago, Lazarus said: I suspect that the real reason we see this anti-downtown attitude here and elsewhere online is that the soccer fans are endlessly irritated that The Bengals and the NFL are 10X more popular than MLS. LOL. The things people say.
October 31, 2024Oct 31 There's not even an "anti-downtown" sentiment when it comes to this situation. Rather, people are just responding to what's happening around other leagues. For several NFL owners (one of whom you can read about on this here website regularly), they want to chase what the Atlanta Braves recently did. Now, it's not just a matter of having a stadium built by the public where you control all the revenue and get wealthy, no no no... you gotta have a whole surrounding development too. For right or wrong, it's a strategy that's being pulled off in other markets and now other teams want to cash in on the idea. The issue for them, however, is that the same tactics of the 90s and early 2000's don't work anymore (look at Kansas City's recent vote). Objectively, no one wants to see The Bengals move out of Downtown, but if Mike Brown and co. had the opportunity to get some suburban county to build them a new stadium and hand over land for development—they would absolutely build some nonsense next to the Tennis Center/Kings Island or over the footprint of a dying Eastgate/Forest-Fair Mall. And if there's no deal like that on the table, or a solution for keeping them at their current stadium, you better believe they're going to look at other cities. And you know what? That's fine. Would it suck to lose one of the local teams, especially one in the largest or most popular league? Absolutely, but... the "need" just isn't there anymore. In 96, the original Cleveland Browns (now Ravens) move had everyone shook and voters approved a sweetheart deal for Mike Brown. They (likely) won't do that again, especially with how absolutely abysmal the franchise has been since they got a new stadium in '99. But they will play out the remainder of their lease extensions. After that... depends on who's offering them a deal... whether that's in another county or city. The difference this time is that Cincinnati has a much stronger identity and reputation than it did in 1996 (across the board from tourism to economics to business, etc). Yeah, losing an NFL team would suck, but this city now has so many other things going for it to make a name for itself. One of which, yes, is FC Cincinnati. Who, by the way, play "downtown" and wanted to be in the core just like the other teams. Cincinnati (as well as Cleveland for that matter) aren't in the same position Jacksonville is/was. Edited October 31, 2024Oct 31 by Gordon Bombay
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